How many people are Honestly considering emigration?

[Beaker]

Watching today's "press conference" was a very disturbing experience, and embarrassing for me as a citizen of this country.
If the current Regime retains power after the elections next year, how many people here are seriously considering a move to another country?
Our family is hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst, so that we can be completely liquid and mobile as soon after Nov. 5 of next year as possible.
After today's performance, I don't think I can take another 4 years +(Jebbie's in the wings) of this crap.

[mmonk]

1. I'll stay and fight for restoration of democracy as long as I can.

(Until it becomes unsafe for my children.)

[elfwitch]

that is my plan as well...

I'll stay until the neo-cons start thinking it might a really good idea to start re-educating the Jews.

[La_Serpiente]

2. If Bush passes Patriot II

I am hightailing my ass to Brazil.

[terrya]

3. My God. The press conference was THAT bad???

My boyfriend lives in Toronto, and I live in Chicago. He wants me to move up there. I just can't do it right now...finances.

I'd love to move up to Canada if asshole gets another 4 years. I just can't believe the American people would fall for the bullshit that the repugs are going to hand out in this election...but I fear somehow that they will.

[theivoryqueen]

7. Canada sounds pretty appealing

Especially since, in light of global warming, it'll probably be tropical up there soon!

[raysr]

8. Canada

I live about 20 miles from Canada as the crow flies and have considered it seriously. My wife is another story though. Also Canada is pretty touchy which it comes to criminal history, even DUI, which makes me wonder how Bush got in at the trade talks a couple of years ago, everybody else has to buy what's called a "Magistrates Permit". Other than that I'd go if dumbshit gets re-uped.

[TrogL]

20. There's other restrictions as well

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/index.html

[terrya]

26. You bring up an interesting point, raysr.

How DID Bush (and Cheney) get into Canada, considering they both have DUI's? My boyfriend said that it would have been interesting if Canadian law officials actually enforced their laws regarding people entering Canada with DUI's.

[TrogL]

18. Marry that boyfriend

and you'd probably get in

[terrya]

27. He already said he'll sponsor me, TrogL.

And once Canada fully recognizes gay marriage, I will. :-)

[redqueen]

4. I am

I'm torn, because I really believe in fighting the good fight.

However, having watched Nader come and go -- and witnessing the pain that put our party through was bad enough -- I am really on the edge now.

Now we have a real candidate with integrity and a proven track record and it's a constant fight ... against my own party!

Honestly I get more openminded reception about Kucinich's candidacy from independents in goldanged TEXAS than here or any other 'liberal' site.

Sorry... kinda went off there... but you get my drift.

I've fought long and hard, and if I see this opportunity wasted, I'll leave it to the 'incrementalists' to sort out the mess they helped create.

[Bronco69]

5. I'm seriously considering it

I was layed off in January, 2001 and have only worked a couple of short term contract jobs since then. I don't think I can handle 4 more years of this crap. Canada isn't looking so cold right about now.

[jokerman93]

6. If Bush steals the '04 election

My girl friend and I are thinking of buying some land in China (her home country).

Or maybe I'll stay and seriously consider a life of outlaw dissent.

[Beaker]

11. "Outlaw dissent" probably won't be a good idea.

It simply won't be allowed under Patriot Act II.2

[jokerman93]

46. Under Patriot Act II.2

I doubt there'll be many legitimate forms of dissent -- other than the outlaw variety.

[raysr]

13. Leaving

Then again that would suit the knuckledraggers just fine, that's probably part of PNAC too, drive all the native inhabs out and bring in Iraqis!

[amish_enforcer]

9. We joke about it all the time

my wife and I, but who knows? I'm all for sticking it out and trying to see things thru, but at what cost? America has alot more issues than ol' Georgie in all fairness, but he just makes it too easy to cringe

[Kinkistyle]

10. In the land of the Rising Sun (atm).

Studying in Japan at the moment. 2002 had to be one of the worst years ever for me in the States., altho I must admit that the protests were an uplifting experience. Decided to head out here and take a breather, get back in touch with nature for a year or two and appreciate the good things in this world (like human kindness that spans cultures, etc... a rarity, in this day and age)

I will of course, send in an ex-patriate vote for the Democratic presidential candidate come 2004, from some small seaside fishing village, no doubt.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. I intend to move to Ireland if W is elected............ n/t

[T Wolf]

14. the only problem

with leaving Amurka to the facists is that they are not content to ruin this country. Their goal is WORLD dominance. Pollution, state-sponsored terrorism, corporate greed do not stop at arbitrary lines on a map.

We can run from them, but we really cannot hide.

[bicentennial_baby]

15. Nope

I'm hanging in for the long haul. Although moving out of the country is in my career plan, I'll probably wait until after we get this fucking country back on track.

[raysr]

21. Take it Back

Black Box Voting, 9-11 Commission, Patriot Act, Valerie Plame, Iraq and Afganistan, connections to the Saudis. With that kind of load to carry you'd think their back would break soon.

[niyad]

16. all of us who are going to leave need to do so before the borders are seal

sealed and martial law declared

[elfwitch]

17. good point...

n/t

[Galley_Queen]

30. Get Your Passports

now. My mate and I are getting ours just in case we want to leave. We sure have talked about it and Canada sounds good. But, if we decide on a location that requires a passport, we want ours ready and able to get us there immediately.

Such a decision. My (step)father was born and raised in Germany. He was a young man when Hitler started coming into power. It seems that he and his dad were anti-Hitler but his mother and sisters were pro-Hitler. My dad left Germany and his family behind because of Hitler when he was 17. He came to the United States where he knew no one, didn't know the language, but was able to find employment building ships. When he had saved enough money, he sent for his father who joined him in the US, leaving his wife and daughters behind. It wasn't too long after that the US went to war against Germany and actually deported my dad's father as he had not become a citizen yet (my dad had already become a US citizen.

My dad joined the US Army and they of course immediately sent him to Germany (since he WAS German and could speak the language). While there, my dad tried to find his father and the rest of his family but was never able to find any of them and never saw his father again.

I've often thought about the intense pain that situation caused my dad. He seldom spoke about Germany or the war and in fact, I never found out about any of his family situation until my adult years, and after my dad died.

I read an article the other day about a woman who left the US several years ago because of her political beliefs. One thing about that article stuck me...she said that no matter where she went, she was still an American and couldn't possibly get away from it.

Food for thought.

[mike_c]

19. depends on the time scale....

K and I will almost certainly settle in Central America or Mexico when we retire, both for financial reasons and because we are sick and tired of the consumer culture in the U.S. I know, much of CA wants to emulate it, but there will probably be somewhere left in the boonies where life is simpler.

[BlueJazz]

22. I was Born in Australia and it looks like my....

...."Wonderment" about leaving America is becoming more solid
with each passing day.

I AM going to fight a strong battle to get a Democrat in the
White-House and (hopefully) some in congress.

I do promise myself though, if Bush is elected in 2004, I'll know
for sure that the Majority of Americans are Beyond Hope.....
...and I'm outta' here!

[Red311]

33. dont give up just yet

I know we should all prepare for the worst and hope for the best,but instead of waiting to see what happens and then reacting, i am going to do more than vote next January. As Ghandi put it " be the change you wish to see in the world".
Im strong supporter and current volunteer of John Edwards because not only is he a Democrat (more so than Wesley) but hes also more moderate than Dean. At this point id settle for any democrat in office but weve gotta pick one that we know will beat Bush and turn things around.

[info being]

23. I am...

but I'm a bit frustrated to see the value of the dollar (my savings) erode. Don't know if I'll be able to afford it.

[Petrodollar Warfare]

35. The US dollar may become the key issue...

...regarding the 2004 elections. Lots of imbalances that could create a "dollar panic" of sorts, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae credit bubbles, geopoliitcal tensions with N. Korea. Indeed, Russia stating it might re-denominate its oil currency to the euro is adding pressure to a developing crisis re the US dollar. If I were you, I'd consider some gold bullion with your current savings...just in case (at least that is what I did last year, and I may buy a little more -even w/ gold at $400 p/ oz.)

IMO, If the does dollar crash, it will be that much harder to afford an immigration should you feel that is an option. Just food for thought.

[Heddi]

24. My hubby and I are

I'm becomming an RN (registered nurse) which will pretty much allow us to move to any country in the world, since nurses are in such short supply.

All I need (once I finish the program here) is between 1-3 years of experience in the US, and I can go anywhere.

We're thinking about Canada, but thinking more about UK, Australia (just because of lack of language barrier). Also thinking about studying a foreign language once I become a nurse so that we can move to English-Is-Not-The-Official-Language countries like the Netherlands, Germany, France, etc...

[Beaker]

32. Nursing is a great ticket out.

I just wish I weren't so sqeamish.

New Zealand is another place with no language barrier, beautiful scenery, and fairly liberal immigration policies.

[Heddi]

39. Yep! Me loves the nursing

:)

It's a great job in the US --- several hospitals offer $60k a year PLUS mucho benefits and other incentives for NEW GRADUATES!!! hooo-haaa!

But aside from the money, and the option to pretty much live wherever I want to, it's a great job that's so needed everywhere.

People wonder why they have to wait for 4 hours in the ER? Uh, because there's no nurses to care for you!!!

There are many nursing professions (Grad-School level) that are paid higher than Dr's----a friend of mine is a nurse anesthesiologist and she gets about $250k a year---Dr's of anesthesiology only get $130k a year---but there's such a need for the nurses, and not the Dr's, that they get higher pay!

How neat-o is that?!?!?!?1

[Beaker]

42. Do nurses need to carry medical malpractice insurance like MD's?

For instance, your example of the nurse anestesiologist at $250K vs. an anestesiologist at $130K-
from what I understand, anestesiologists have some of the highest malpractice rates, due to the real dangers involved in the procedure(s)...do the nurses have the same kind of liabilities, and therefore need to carry the same kind of coverage?

[Heddi]

48. we do have to carry malpractice insurance

but I don't know how much it is---When I get accepted into an RN program (winter or spring quarter most likely), since I'll be training in hospitals and working with people, I'll have to have some coverage, and it's about $100 a year for insurance through the school. I don't know how much it is for a full-fledged RN, and I"m sure the amount of ins. you're required to have is related to your training and what you're required to do on the job.

I think that Dr's have higher malpractice ins. rates because they're able to do things like surgery, incisions, stitches---stuff like that a nurse can't do.

As far as anesthesiologists go, I don't exactly know what the nurse does that the Dr doesn't---perhaps just prepare the patient and monitor the body rates as opposed to actually administering the anesthesia---I would assume (again, assumption because I really don't know) that they would have to have a significant amount of Mal.Ins. but not as much as the dr would since the nurse wouldn't have the responsibility and stuff that the dr. does.

But that's an interesting question---I'll ask one of my teachers this week!

[sistersofmercy]

25. If the evil little simpleton prick is selected in 04, I'm outta here!

I've already started looking into and plan to get my ducks in a row just in case.

[Atlant]

28. We are.

Jan and I been seriously "shopping" since before the 2002 elections.

I believe (that with the recently reduced standards) I have enough
points to allow us to emmigrate to Canada, and we've been to Toronto
and Montreal together (and yes, in the wintertime). I've been to
Vancouver inthe past and we'll probably visit there together soon.

We've also been to various parts of the UK and France.

We've read New Zealand's brochures. :-)

Stay and fight? Sure, up to a point, and we've certainly been
fighting. But at some point, we may all have to accept that this
has become the modern-day equivalent of Germany in the 30's and
we Liberals are the new Jews. At that point, fleeing becomes a
much-more-reasonable choice.

Atlant

[Wednesdays]

29. We can still fight for America's freedom from outside the borders

A lot of times when threads like this pop up, some people chide those who consider leaving as "giving up the fight." Well, when the Nazis overran Poland, a group of Polish pilots fled to Britain. They then flew Spitfires against the Germans. The 303rd RAF Squadron's heroics was one of the key elements in turning the tide of World War II.

And we each can be part of the resistance, even if it's conducted from another country.

[nono]

31. I will stay, but will try to get my kids to leave

I have a way to travel to almost any country now, but age and health restricts me.

[atreides1]

34. I Will Stay and Fight

I don't think that the majority of the military will support this man for another 4 years. And there is still the question that has yet to be answered, where are the militia groups that no one has heard from in the last few years. They went underground and since most if not all the FBI's assets are being used outside of the the US, to investigate every car bomb or threat, they've forgotten about the militia groups.

There's a storm coming, and it will determine if this country remains as a beacon of freedom, and as in the past freedom will not be free.
The cost in lives will probably surpass that of the Civil War, but this fight must maintain freedom and equality for all. That means that any group that preaches hate of gays, people of color, non-christian religions, must first have their leadership eradicated.

Sounds bad doesn't it, but it's the only way that this country can retain its freedom. We must remain free of the genocide that those groups will try to commit should they come to power.

Not all fundie, right wing groups support ShrubCo, some would like nothing better then to become the American Taliban.

So you see if civil war does occur, there will be not one but several enemies to fight against. But you know the old saying "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer."

[bikebloke]

36. Easier said than done

Moving to another country is not as easy as moving to another state. I know, because I've certainly tried. Bureaucratic hurdles have been constructed, mainly as a result of high unemployment. And it's worse now than ten to twenty years ago. Of course I could have hunkered down illegally or married someone I didn't feel for. Too bloody honest. I fit in Europe, but quite fancy New Zealand. If I saw an opportunity, I'd go for it. Alas, I suspect I'm here for the big fight.

[Beaker]

43. If you fancy New Zealand, you may be in luck.

From what I hear, New Zealand can be one of the easier countries to migrate too, particularly with a marketable skill.

more info can be found here:
http://www.immigration.govt.nz/

Belize is supposed to be easy to buy your way into, but I would presume that this Junta has eyes for central america within the decade anyway.

[progressiverealist]

37. If Bush steals '04 and then abolishes term limits, I'll leave

for my child's sake

[E_Zapata]

38. If Bush gets re-appointed - getting out of here will be near impossible

There will be FLOODS of Americans trying to settle up and get out of here, and quite a crisis for Mexico and Canada, and we will be turned down. Only so many people can fit through the door at once, dontcha know?

My friend said if Bush gets back in, my friend is going to 'put his house on the market and work to get out.' How many houses do you think will be on the market come Nov 8, 2004?

If a person is going to leave, they should leave a.s.a.p., IMO.

I sure wish I had the means.

[mmonk]

40. Give me liberty

or give me death. However, I'll safely get my children out if I have to.

[liberalcapitalist]

41. I intend to move to Canada if * is in office in 05

n/t

[SahaleArm]

44. Ask this question to any H1 or Green Card holders?

I bet the answer would be completely different. I'll be fighting this one till Bush declares marshal law.

[Beaker]

45. I think that would depend on where they came from-

I doubt that too many of the people on this board who are thinking of going won't be doing so to India, Pakistan, or any 3rd world-type nation.

[Kanary]

47. I'd *love* to leave....

....because I honestly think the other option is that I won't live through it.

I'm one of those who don't have lots of choices.... I'm on disability, and simply unable to physically support myself. I fully expect that there will be mass cutbacks, with the resultant deaths.

There were Thousands of deaths from cut backs during the Reagan years (although it didn't make the news... surprise), and I expect that will happen once again, and this time, I will be among the statistics.

No country will take in someone who can't make it on their own, so ....... Some of us are stuck with little hope.

However, to be honest, I don't think the prospects are much better with Dean. He is clearly going to make cuts, and since there is nothing left to cut, people will be set adrift. (To put it in genteel words.) I also don't expect that much fuss will be made of the resulting deaths.

So, yes, I wish I could leave. Not to get away from the neocons, but just to keep breathing.

Kanary