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Bush Blatantly LIED Today - We Have Evidence - Blast the Media

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:08 PM
Original message
Bush Blatantly LIED Today - We Have Evidence - Blast the Media
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:33 PM by Stephanie
Continuing from DoctorMyEyes' thread, here is the evidence in concise form so we can demand a retraction of this insulting lie.

I hope Cat Atomic is still here to post the AMAZING graphic evidence that Bush lied about the origin of the "Mission Accomplished" banner.

Bush's denial today that the WH placed the banner on the carrier:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031028-2.html

Q Mr. President, if I may take you back to May 1st when you stood on the USS Lincoln under a huge banner that said, "Mission Accomplished." At that time you declared major combat operations were over, but since that time there have been over 1,000 wounded, many of them amputees who are recovering at Walter Reed, 217 killed in action since that date. Will you acknowledge now that you were premature in making those remarks?

THE PRESIDENT: Nora, I think you ought to look at my speech. I said, Iraq is a dangerous place and we've still got hard work to do, there's still more to be done. And we had just come off a very successful military operation. I was there to thank the troops.

The "Mission Accomplished" sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished. I know it was attributed some how to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way. But my statement was a clear statement, basically recognizing that this phase of the war for Iraq was over and there was a lot of dangerous work. And it's proved to be right, it is dangerous in Iraq. It's dangerous in Iraq because there are people who can't stand the thought of a free and peaceful Iraq. It is dangerous in Iraq because there are some who believe that we're soft, that the will of the United States can be shaken by suiciders -- and suiciders who are willing to drive up to a Red Cross center, a center of international help and aid and comfort, and just kill.


The Banner, hung (and designed? and produced?) by the USS Lincoln crew, according to Bush. Looks suspiciously similar to backdrops we see at every Bush speech:



Bush's speech on the carrier:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/01/bush.transcript/index.html

Bush makes historic speech aboard warship
Thursday, May 1, 2003 Posted: 9:48 PM EDT (0148 GMT)

ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN (CNN) -- The following is an unedited transcript of President Bush's historic speech from the flight deck of the USS Lincoln, during which he declared an end to major combat in Iraq:

Thank you. Thank you all very much.

Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans, major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed.

And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.


Video of the speech linked here:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/05/01/sprj.irq.bush.speech/index.html


Bush handlers stage manage every aspect of his appearances, including this one:

Keepers of Bush image lift stagecraft to new heights
By Elisabeth Bumiller
New York Times
Friday, May 16, 2003 Posted: 7:08 AM EDT (1108 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/16/nyt.bumiller/

The president's image makers, Mr. Bartlett said, work within a budget for White House travel and events allotted by Congress, which for fiscal 2003 was $3.7 million. He said he did not know the specific cost of staging Mr. Bush's Sept. 11 anniversary speech, or what the White House was charged for the lights. A spokeswoman at the headquarters of Musco Lighting in Oskaloosa, Iowa, said the company did not disclose the prices it charged clients.

<snip>

The most elaborate — and criticized — White House event so far was Mr. Bush's speech aboard the Abraham Lincoln announcing the end of major combat in Iraq. White House officials say that a variety of people, including the president, came up with the idea, and that Mr. Sforza embedded himself on the carrier to make preparations days before Mr. Bush's landing in a flight suit and his early evening speech.

Media strategists noted afterward that Mr. Sforza and his aides had choreographed every aspect of the event, even down to the members of the Lincoln crew arrayed in coordinated shirt colors over Mr. Bush's right shoulder and the "Mission Accomplished" banner placed to perfectly capture the president and the celebratory two words in a single shot. The speech was specifically timed for what image makers call "magic hour light," which cast a golden glow on Mr. Bush.


"If you looked at the TV picture, you saw there was flattering light on his left cheek and slight shadowing on his right," Mr. King said. "It looked great."

The trip was attacked by Democrats as an expensive political stunt, but White House officials said that Democrats needed a better issue for taking on the president. A New York Times/CBS News nationwide poll conducted May 9-12 found that the White House may have been right: 59 percent of those polled said it was appropriate, and not an effort to make political gain, for Mr. Bush to dress in a flight suit and announce the end of combat operations on the aircraft carrier.



Bush handlers admit that the event was SO stage-managed that the ship had to slow down so San Diego would not be visible to the cameras


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22502-2003May6?language=printer

b]Explanation for Bush's Carrier Landing Altered
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 7, 2003; Page A20

President Bush chose to make a jet landing on an aircraft carrier last week even after he was told he could easily reach the ship by helicopter, the White House said yesterday, changing the explanation it gave for Bush's "Top Gun" style event.

Bush's televised landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln, for which the president wore a flight suit and a helmet and took underwater survival training in the White House swimming pool, was the dramatic start to a visit to the carrier that included an air show and a televised speech to the nation. In his address, the president declared victory in Iraq in front of cheering sailors and a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished."

White House officials had said, both before and after Bush's landing in a Navy S-3B Viking jet, that he took the plane solely to avoid inconveniencing the sailors, who were returning home after a deployment of nearly 10 months. The officials said that Bush decided not to wait until the ship was in helicopter range to avoid delaying the troops' homecoming.

But instead of the carrier being hundreds of miles offshore, as aides had said it would be, the Lincoln was only about 30 miles from the coast when Bush made his "tail-hook" landing, in which the jet was stopped by cables on deck. Navy officers slowed and turned the ship when land became visible.

<snip>

Citing Fleischer's revised explanation, Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.) wrote to the General Accounting Office to ask for a "full accounting" of the cost of the trip.

After Fleischer's remarks, Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W.Va.) delivered an impassioned speech on the Senate floor, saying he was "deeply troubled" by Bush's actions, which he called "flamboyant showmanship." The octogenarian lawmaker criticized the White House for using the carrier "as an advertising backdrop" and the military "as stage props" for Bush's speech.


A very similar backdrop:



Mission Accomplished:




*EDIT* I'm adding Cat Atomic's brilliant graphic evidence to this first post. Cat Atomic posted this in the other thread:

They used the SAME flag graphic:

This...



Makes this:

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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Where the heck would navy personnel at sea...
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:11 PM by htuttle
...get their hands on a silkscreen press big enough to print a banner like that?

Does Kinko's have a 'High Seas' location I'm unaware of?

Although, that banner is way too large for even most Kinko's to create -- it was probably custom made by a 'banner printer' Hmm...someone should have a receipt somewhere, right?.
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. LOL.
Perhaps that Kinko's is right next to the off shore Krusty Burger.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. How would the Navy justify the expense for such a thing?
Follow the money.
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donotpassgo Donating Member (867 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. Kinko's doesn't do Silk Screen at all.
There are very few places that actually signs that big.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
59. The crew ordered ahead, using their online Kinko's account...
... Kinko's delivered the banner by Sea King helicopter. Anything for the beloved, glorious fuehrer.
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jmowreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
87. Not silkscreen. Inkjet, or electrostatic.
Ships have print shops on them. I would assume that these shops now contain wide-format inkjet printers, because they make such nice maps and charts.

You'd need something like an Epson Stylus Pro 10000 to do a banner that big, or one of the 12-color 60-inch rigs that are out there (it has two sets of six printheads, each printing half of the image), but doing it's no big deal.

And yes, I am aware the White House made the banner.
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evel dewars Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
91. Bush's banner
Like everything else that comes out of his mouth we now are immune and most accept his lies. I am so tired of thinking and saying:where is the outrage?? If Clinton lied half as much the rabid right would have had the Bannergate investigation going.

His press conference today was the longest he has allowed so far.
They hate our freedom" has been changed to "they hate the Iraqi's freedom." Being a conservative he uses one sentence to fit all.

I would have liked to be one of those reporters and question:
Mr . Resident who is the 'they' you are referring too since it is common knowledge you have no idea who is responsible for the attacks in Iraq.

and while we are on the subject-what freedom do the EYE-ROCKIES have when we are occupying their country?
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Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. Someone in the media needs to call him on this
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yeah, right, but WHO?
Not enough balls in that whole whipped-dog Soviet-style thing that passes for a Press Corps.

And anyway, I think it has been conclusively demonstrated that, thanks to the gentle ministrations of Goebbels v2.0, Corporate TV Pravda and the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media, no matter what odious and obvious lies the Emperor* tells

...he didn't tell them ,you see.

(see sig line below)
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greekspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
90. Maybe they can call him on it sometime after...
their noses are surgically removed from Chimp's ass. The man could have gotten out of the helicopter and urinated on the sailors and the media would have called it a couragous step in fighting terror.
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evel dewars Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
92. reply to media calling Bush on yet another lie
FEAR FACTOR
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Another Weasely Non-denial denial
Look at what he said:

"The "Mission Accomplished" sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished. I know it was attributed some how to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way."

You see, it probably was put up by members of the USS Abraham Lincoln. They were the one's who PHYSICALLY put it up, however, the sign was provided by the Chimp's staff and it was the Chimp's staff who I'm sure told the Captain to direct his crew to put the sign up...

See how it works?
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joshdawg Donating Member (335 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:19 PM
Original message
You hit the nail on the head!
Nice post!
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NicoleM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
5. what I don't get
is that it was such a DUMB, obvious lie. Is he so stupid that he believes his own story, or is he so arrogant and used to getting away with lying that he doesn't think anybody will care?
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jbfam4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. He Can't tell the difference
between truth and reality. What he says he thinks is true so therefor, to him, it is.

Will Nora O'Donnell ever be called on again for a question or will she get a seat at the back of the bus?
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Bronco69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Who does Nora O'Donnell work for?
Maybe we should email her.
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Wickerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. O'Donnel works for MSNBC
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:47 PM by lunabush
http://www.msnbc.com/news/525185.asp

O’DONNELL has covered a number of major breaking news stories for both NBC and MSNBC, including most recently the September 11 terrorist attacks. She has traveled extensively with Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and reported on the war in Afghanistan and the war on terrorism.
Previously, O’Donnell reported on the Republican primaries, the Republican and Democratic conventions, and the presidential debates. She was also one of MSNBC anchors on Election Night, reporting on the congressional contests.
After joining the network in 1999, O’Donnell was assigned to cover President Clinton’s impeachment trial. She has traveled internationally with Clinton and covered the Kosovo crisis from the Pentagon.
Prior to joining NBC News, O’Donnell was a staff writer for Roll Call, the Capitol Hill Newspaper, where she covered Congress. She also traveled across the country to cover numerous House and Senate contests. From 1997-99, O’Donnell was also a contributor and news analyst for MSNBC.

edit - add her pic, I can't find the email - any other DUer have any ideas?


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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. My husband loves Nora
thinks she's very beautiful ..I think she's a great
reporter who asked a great question today .
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. How can we find her email addy?
We should send this to her.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. I looked for it but couldn't find it
:shrug:
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thinkahead Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
67. I went to High School with her
in SA. Ironically we had a Government class together. It's been fun to watch her rise in the ranks over at MSNBC.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
100. I vote for
"or is he so arrogant and used to getting away with lying that he doesn't think anybody will care?"
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cat Atomic's Brilliant Graphic Evidence
Cat Atomic posted this in the other thread, but I think it's getting lost:

They used the SAME flag graphic:

This...



Makes this:

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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Wow, that was brilliant
I am in awe of Cat Atomic
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RapidCreek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
52. They even use the same friggin font!!
RC
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radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
8. how convienent
that a ship at sea was able to get such a professional and large banner....

ummmmmm...maybe they ordered it fromt he same place that the whistleass got his cod piece? from make-it-bigger dot com?
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sable302 Donating Member (597 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. holy cow
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:18 PM by sable302
Good catch.
Same flag graphic.
What a maroon.

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number six Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's a set-up
That's absolutely the same typeface and style as Bush's regular briefing backdrop. The chances of Navy personnel coming up with such a close match unaided are miniscule. This is a brazen lie.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
11. did he dispute these reports at the time?
Today is the first time I've heard anyone dispute that his people did that whole show.

If that's true, it seems strange that he would wait six months to correct these accounts.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here are a few...
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:21 PM by Cat Atomic
Oops- I just reposted stuff that was in the original post. :)

Definitely the same graphics toolbox in all that stuff.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Re-post it, Cat Atomic! I was looking for you! I got impatient, sorry...
Re-post it yourself and explain to us how it would have been done. That was just brilliant sleuthing on your part.
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. No problem! And thanks! I think you covered it very thoroughly.
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:28 PM by Cat Atomic
I'm actually flipping around for another version of that flag graphic, since the one with "Jobs" on it sort of distorts the star pattern, and the shadows. Hopefully I can dig one up.
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. Excellent work Stephanie
Thanks!
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
17. Nice find. I love it when DUers make a catch like this
:-)

Lies and the lying liars who tell them.

Example 978,345,312
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
19. How Come?
How come he's wearing a power tie in that photo? I thought he was in a flight suit with some kind of protruding crotch gourd that day???
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #19
42. That's interesting
Maybe he brought a change of clothes or maybe the banner was also used at a different time. I'm hoping it's not a fake, since I just sent it to our local news organization.

MzPip
:dem:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. It's real. He landed on the carrier in the flight suit, then changed
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 06:01 PM by Stephanie
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Thanks!
I feel better now. :-)

MzPip
:dem:
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RapidCreek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #19
56. Go here Joker...he changed his cloths and had his hair combed.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. Cut and paste
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 05:37 PM by mzpip
and forward this to news outlets. I sent it to KGO in SF.

Damn this is good stuff. :-)

MzPip
:dem:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
22. The "IT IS DANGEROUS!" banner got left behind.
I guess. :shrug:
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #22
35. THAT is hilarious, RUMMY....
Bwahahahahahaha! :evilgrin:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Even a blind dog finds a bone, once in a while.
It would be even more hilarious if it wasn't such bullshit.


Have I said how much I hate these people? - Mike Malloy
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Dude_CalmDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
23. What? - You didn't know that the USS Lincoln has Arts and Crafts time?
They need something to do to keep busy out at sea.
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Ivote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
32. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED ?
If they are backtracking and now saying that the "mission accomplised" is not correct, then why arent our servicemen still entitled to combat pay?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Excellent question - do you mean to say that combat pay was ended after
that speech? Can that be true? That's outrageous!
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Excellent work! Thank you very much!
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jonoboy Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. the only mission acomplished
is the finding out of the lies this man has told.

the research being done that exposes Bush is truly awesome and makes me feel proud..I know who the real patriots are here..and it aint the man in the flysuit.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. this is PRIME Jon Stewert material

anyone out there in DU land got a contact?

I would think that Buzzflash would cover it if you could put a concise version together.
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #28
45. sent to Buzzflash (any other sites ???)

in a 'concise' format (THANKS to Stephanie for that!)

any other places it should go??? send the emails, I'll sent the evidence!!!
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
47. if anyone has a Jon Stewart/Daily Show email

let me know. I can't find one. thanks to Stephanie, I have a concise version of the facts/graphics that can be sent.....
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Tansy_Gold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #47
84. Daily Show fax
from their Comedy Central website, re internships: "You can also fax your resume to us at 212-468-1890."

It's worth a try, I suppose. . . . . . .
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. i'll try in the AM

no fax access at home... :shrug:
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
54. sent to MWO

could not open smirkingchimp site... ???
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
30. Yeah, the navy shares the shrubs design office
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
36. Mofo lies everytime he opens his yap
he's a pathological liar, incapable of telling the truth, even when it is trivial.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. "even when it is trivial"
Exactly. Lies about EVERYTHING. It's almost childlike - he imagines he won't be caught.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. it is a symptom of addictive/enabling families
that everyone lies, even when it serves no purpose.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
38. I used to work in the sign and banner business
making those very kinds of banners. I can tell you this- there is NO reason for a naval vessel to have the kind of expensive equipment needed to make this banner. My company scraped and saved to have enough to buy one for their business!

they would need to have a Gerber Edge or something similar, on hand (Not cheap!)

they would need the color foils, on hand, in enough quantity to do such a huge banner (Not cheap!)

plus they would need a LONG roll of vinyl, grommets, etc... (cheaper, but not cheap!)



this is NOT something made on a battleship, and if it were by some chance made by the families of the sailors, then they spent a LOT of money on it (also means they have to explain how they received it)
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. How much, roughly, do you estimate it would cost? n/t
.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. I'm not sure, I did the design and layouts...
but I had little to do with sales... I know that it ain't cheap.

A quick check on the net shows that the Gerber Edge is an expensive enough machine that nobody lists the price! Must call or email for a quote, or leasing info

no wonder my boss was no nervous about getting one!

this isn't the kind of equipment you just buy for sailors to amuse themselves.. regardless of the brand-name.

I know the color foils were at least $75-100 each, and you would've needed several of each color to print a banner of that size..

if the Navy has that kind of eq and supplies on board their vsls, they are spending tens of thousands, minimum, for it all
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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #48
78. These are probably done on a government press in or near DC
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 07:17 PM by Hardhead
And though I'm no expert, I'd say several thousand dollars per banner is a conservative estimate. Nice glossy color work is pricey even at the 8-1/2" x 11" size, to say nothing of 50 feet wide. As the size increases, the cost goes up almost exponentially.

Here's the guy who knows exactly how much:

"Mr. Sforza created the White House "message of the day" backdrops and helped design the $250,000 set at the United States Central Command forward headquarters in Doha, Qatar, during the Iraq war."

Fucker has a 3 million dollar+ budget. Taxpayer funded.
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
65. About $10 a square foot
They now have high res process color ink jets that can make banners like that. To do a banner that wide (length is not an issue) requires a piece of equipment that costs $100,000+.

To make a process color banner that big would cost a couple of 1000 bucks easy.

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Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #65
81. Let's say the banner is about 50 feet long and 8 feet high
That's 400 square feet at $10 per sq. ft. = $4,000
But let's add a "fucker factor" of 50% according to the first corollary of Osborne's Law*: For all financial estimates, add a 50% "fucker factor," whether due to incompetence, greed or fraud.

I'll guess $6,000 per banner, and I still think that's conservative. I'd almost say $10,000 to $12,000 knowing these ignorant fucks and the way they blow money.
----------
*Osborne's Law:

When estimating how long a task will take, always add an additional 50%. You will just barely make it in time.

1st Corollary to Osborne's Law: For all financial estimates, add a 50% "fucker factor," whether due to incompetence, greed or fraud.

All this flows naturally from the equation: Time=Money
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Resistance Is Futile Donating Member (693 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #81
94. Way too large
The banner was fixed to a handrail which is no more than 3-4 feet high. Similarly, the banner could be no more than about 40' wide as the island itself is only about 50 feet wide.

4' times 40' times $10 sq foot = $1,600.
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Brotherjohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
46. GREAT catch!! Evidence of a Bush Lie, and a callous cynical one at that.
Truly, this is material for John Stewart. I hope someone there reads this. That is the perfect venue to out this outrageous lie.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. He had to lie, "national security" you know n/t
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
49. oops dupe
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 06:16 PM by julka
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berry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
53. OK--I think Dan Bartlett (WH communications offfice) started this.
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 06:28 PM by berry
I remembered gagging some time ago at a report about how the banner was just a homemade tribute, but couldn't remember where I saw it (and didn't follow up--I am SOOO stupid!). Anyway, I googled and found this at Free Republic. (The original, at US News and World Report, is just a snippet in a Periscope sort of news/gossip review. And anyway it's now a for-$ archived thing. But FR copied enough--probably all of that item.) Naturally, the headline affixed is biased against the Dems for pointing out how stagecrafted the whole show was. They might have just ignored those charges, but the "mission accomplished" message needed to be disavowed. This is from about a month ago.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/986797/posts

<<`Mission accomplished': Bush brag or Demo fib?
U.S. News- Washington Whispers ^ | 09/29/03 | Paul Bedard
Posted on 09/21/2003 7:17 PM PDT by Pokey78
After weeks of Democratic assaults that President Bush was a nitwit for declaring "mission accomplished" in Iraq during his May 1 landing and victory speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln, the White House is bidding to set the story straight. The issue should be a simple one: Bush never uttered those words. "The president," argues communications boss Dan Bartlett, "said exactly the opposite: The mission continues." But Bush stood under a banner declaring "mission accomplished." Why? Bartlett says that the Lincoln's captain had the banner made up to thank his crew for the longest-ever carrier tour, not to declare the war over. "It is something the troops are really proud of," says Bartlett. "Of course they can hang the banner." But the picture was all the Demos needed. "On TV," he says, "they never play the bite of the president, they just show the image with the banner." Democratic polls show that the public buys their spin, which doesn't really surprise Bartlett. "Look, perception becomes reality," he says. "But the facts don't back it up.">>

Nice dig about how Dems don't listen, huh?

EDITED to add: Could the WH PR staff have told the captain to "order" the banner, and then told him they would take care of it for him? And would the captain ever tell the truth about this?

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. "Bartlett says that the Lincoln's captain had the banner made up"
An even MORE blatant lie. How on earth does a ship's captain get something like this done on his way HOME from a WAR?
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. The three rules of navigation:
1. Stars
2. Sextant
3. Banner

Simple.
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
64. Even if the Lincoln had made that banner...
one would be a total moran to think that something like that wouldn't have to go through the entire chain of command to get approval for display at an event such as that...right up to Rove and the supposed Commander-in-Thief.
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
57. Reading the print finely.
"was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln" - (members?)

As in Sforza sez: "Take six sailors and go hang this masterpiece."

And he does not say Sforza/staff did not do it. He said "they weren't that ingenious". ("Dummies! See what trouble they got me in?")

He's like Rodney Dangerfield: "I dissemble that remark."

Liars are such fun as they try to cover and recover.

Great catch, by the way. I'd love to see some more of their 'splaining on this.

:evilgrin:
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
60. NBC reports the latest spin!

the carrier 'requested' the banner but yes, the WH produced it!

gotcha!
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
61. this just in......x post
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 06:49 PM by julka
NBC news just showed the sign, the carrier, then Bush, talking about the 'ingenious' underling, then quoted a "Whitehouse official" as confirming that the sign was "requested" by someone on the carrier, but PRODUCED by the WHITE HOUSE!!!!

said official then went on to 'apologize' if any misunderstanding resulted from this little episonde.

sounds like they're backtracking, ever-so-carefully.

parsing, anyone?

next.....on Faux

they'll be dealing with this, closing the case


not holding breath
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Sounds like they're already starting to with this piece.
Shrub's press conference remarks were clearly deceptive. Keep in mind, like David Gergen sez, aWol's 'trust' thing with gullible citizens is his greatest asset, without which he cannot govern.

More, more, more on this. Its obvious fodder for the bitter, unresolvable, but endlessly argueable tripe that talk media live by.

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Lies and the Lying Liars
WHO, exactly, "requested" the banner? Names, please.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
68. jeez, these guys are spinning like mad
this is getting into "definition of 'is'" territory...

and, if it was produced by the White House, it had to be delivered by them, too
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
66. Bush and the GOPNAC have a new slogan
to counteract the quagmire in Iraq . . .

BLAME THE TROOPS!
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
69. sent to Mike Malloy and Randi Rhodes!

with the new waffle/LIE from the WH, they know they're vulnerable...
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
70. Press/Buchanan discussed it
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 07:04 PM by julka
I taped it, and will xcribe

thread on this:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

"White House produced the Banner"

Hardball now discussing it......Norah ODonnell

"WH produced it."

Tweety talking about it now

CM to T Lott: weird little embarrassment for the WH?
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. and TWEETY is LEADING with the story!


whoo ha! bite on his lying ASS!!!!!
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julka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. Even Juan Williams on Fox isn't buying it
just dig in deeper, and keep on shoveling.

don't they EVER learn?

all they had to do was admit they were overzealous back in May, and the puppycorps would have dropped it like a cold sock.

now, there's at least a chance that this can become a long-term embarrassment.

dems, do your job.......MAKE the press cover stories like this!

Beat it to death, like the pugs did EVERY little nonstory during WJC's term.

question is.......always is.......will the media do anything about it?

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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
72. Tweety just called Lott on it (n/t)
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
73. Will Americans stop being impressed by the assinine backdrops?
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #73
75. LOL!
Great.

:)
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #73
79. I'll see your assine backdrop
And raise you another one.


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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #79
102. Do you have one that says "Job Loss Recovery"? "Or President Pinocchio"?
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
76. New Find ...bush used mission accomplished line in speech a month later
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mpsteve Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
77. Unfortunately, I don't think the Evening News cited the DoD memo!
I may be wrong on this. I know Hardball mentioned it, but I do not recall hearing it on the NBC Nightly News???
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nostamj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
80. david corn has it now too
thanks to armstead for the addy!
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corarose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
82. The letters are the same. Look at the S & O
Edited on Tue Oct-28-03 08:19 PM by corarose
It's from the same print company that he uses to do all of his work.

The Jobs & Growth have the same type of letters as Mission Accomplished.
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dusty64 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
83. This is a lie even the most
moronic can understand. And if he'd lie about a sign what else would he lie about. Maybe just maybe, if it gets any media attention at all it will help to burst this insane belief many have that chimpy is "moral" and a "good and likeable person".
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
85. "BANNERGATE"
!!!!
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
88. Good news travels fast, congratulations! Check it out.
Air Force Times

Whose banner is it, anyway?

President George W. Bush’s staff played more of a role in the “Mission Accomplished” sign that hung on the carrier Abraham Lincoln than the president suggested yesterday in a Rose Garden press conference.

more...




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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #88
93. I just sent this to Buzzflash
Great find!
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #93
96. published at GFP ---------------------------------------- LINK
Bush Untruthful Again - Tries to Avoid Responsibility for 'MISSION ACCOMPLISHED' Banner

more...
http://new.globalfreepress.com/article.pl?sid=03/10/29/0119232

psst... pass the word ;->

peace
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-28-03 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
89. Great work, Stephanie!
The flag in the "distorted" box matches exacatacaly with the banner over the bridge of the USS Lincoln. The font style also matches up with the campaign to bolster the unelected moron's line-of-the-day photo op sked. Photographic proof the Little Turd from Crawford is a liar.
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corarose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #89
95. Republicans do not have any talent or brains
I would have least changed the font and the background so that they wouldn't have matched.

Why do republicans remind me of Beavis & Butthead.
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JetJaguar Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 01:32 AM
Response to Original message
97. WAPO Editorial May 4, 2003
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A10976-2003May3¬Found=true


An Unfinished Mission

Sunday, May 4, 2003; Page B06


THE VICTORY celebration held aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln Thursday was well-deserved, both for President Bush and for the servicemen who cheered him. Thanks to those who gathered on the carrier's deck and their comrades in arms, Saddam Hussein's homicidal hold on Iraq was broken in three weeks, with relatively small, if painful, losses of Iraqi and American lives. None of the disasters feared before the war has come to pass: neither burning oil fields nor bloody street-to-street battles; neither Arab revolutions nor armed interventions by Iraq's neighbors. Mr. Bush acknowledged before the war that these risks were real, but argued that they were outweighed by the risks of not acting: So far, he has been proved right. Nor can there now be any doubt that most Iraqis welcomed the ouster of Saddam Hussein and the elimination of his apparatus of terror. When the horrors of the Baathist regime -- now being confirmed in terrible but necessary detail -- are set against even the destruction and deaths of the war, it's impossible not to conclude that the United States and its allies have performed a great service for Iraq's 23 million people.



Still, it's also impossible to agree with the banner that was draped near Mr. Bush on the carrier deck, proclaiming "Mission Accomplished." Aides say the slogan was chosen in part to mark a presidential turn toward domestic affairs as his campaign for reelection approaches. But neither Mr. Bush nor the American public can afford to put Iraq on the back burner. There is much to be done; the greatest tests and risks still lie in the future. Perhaps Mr. Bush understands that reality; yet his reluctance to fully explain it to Americans or to work for the support he will need is troubling.

Remarkably, Mr. Bush described the Iraqi victory mainly as an episode in the war on terrorism, focusing on purported connections among Iraq, al Qaeda, and the attacks of 9/11 that have yet to be firmly established. He failed to mention Saddam Hussein and devoted only one sentence of 22 words to weapons of mass destruction -- which the United States presented to the United Nations and the world as the decisive reason for military action. Odds are that the dictator will eventually be found, and evidence that has surfaced so far strongly suggests that illegal weapons or weapons programs will be uncovered as well. But the Bush administration should not treat the matter as an afterthought: The weapons could still prove deadly to Americans if they are not secured, and American credibility will be seriously damaged if proof of chemical, biological or nuclear arms is not eventually produced and certified by U.N. inspectors or other independent experts.

...


(Aides say the darndest things.)

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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. outstanding find
Thanks much. There it is. Aides admitted culpability in May.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #97
104. Excellent FIND! They are nailed on this one!
That's great.

Welcome to DU, JetJaguar!
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HFishbine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
99. YOU DID IT STEPHANIE!!!
Way to go. News casts last night were reporting that the "administration" has backtracked on Bush's claim that it was the Navy who put up the banner. What I heard was that it was the Navy's idea (uh huh), but that the Bush team coordinated it and had the banner made. You go girl!
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 08:06 AM
Response to Original message
101. Email this info to all your local newspapers
That's what I'm doing right now.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
103. Who inserted the two words into the president's
end of the war speech?

So, let me get this straight. He stands there in front of a banner that says "Mission Accomplished" while he is making his speech. But he wasn't trying to say "Mission Accomplished." The crew did it.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-29-03 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
105. WOW! So, I was away from the computer and the TV since early last night
Did WE uncover a scandal? Or was the lie SO blatant that everyone latched on to it at once?
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