Sharpton Calls Dean's Agenda "Anti-Black"

[DoveTurnedHawk]

Democratic presidential candidate Al Sharpton launched a blistering attack on Howard Dean yesterday, accusing his rival of promoting an "anti-black agenda."

"Howard Dean's opposition to affirmative action, his current support for the death penalty and historic support of the NRA's agenda amounts to an anti-black agenda that will not sell in communities of color in this country," Sharpton said in a statement.

He said his comments were in response to a news report yesterday that Rep. Jesse L. Jackson Jr. (D-Ill.) plans to endorse Dean, the former Vermont governor and presumed front-runner for the 2004 Democratic nomination. Sharpton has had a long-standing rivalry with the congressman's father, Jesse L. Jackson, who twice ran for president.

"Any so-called African American leader that would endorse Dean despite his anti-black record is mortgaging the future of our struggle for civil rights and social justice," Sharpton said.

His statement cited a 1995 interview in which Dean appeared to question the need for affirmative action programs based solely on race. "I think we ought to look at affirmative action programs based not on race but on class," Dean said on CNN's "Late Edition."

<...>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A31895-2003Oct28.html

DTH

[Jim Sagle]

1. I'll see Wes's Al Sharpton and raise him a Jesse Jackson Jr.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

3. And Donna Brazile, Apparently

I think enough support from leaders of the black community will certainly help Dean rebut this charge...but at the same time, Al has indicated he's in this race to bring attention to issues of interest to his community. I find it interesting that he chose this issue on which to make a stand.

DTH

[Hep]

158. The Real AL Sharpton emerges

Creating racial tension where none existed before.

[FrenchieCat]

9. I don't think it's funny.......

But What I do think is that I'll take the Wes' stance on Affirmative Action over Dean's anyday.

As a black/French (biracial) woman who has a black husband and black children, I believe that Dean certainly needs to address this issue and speak as though he understands it and the plight of minorities.

Remember, you can take a poor white person, put a suit on him....and he will not be followed in the store.

Dean has expressed the same wishy washy views as Bush has on this issue...Bush also wants to frame AA as a class/income issue.

Here is Clark's view on the issue:
http://www.freep.com/voices/columnists/eclark24_20031024.htm
October 24, 2003
BY WESLEY CLARK
Success of military diversity proves affirmative action works
When I left the military and contemplated entering political life, many issues led me to find my political home in the Democratic Party. Affirmative action was one of the most important. This is an issue that Democrats both understand well and feel deeply. And, based on my experiences, I believe without hesitation that we Democrats are right in our belief that affirmative action is good for all Americans.
----------------
Racial hatred has deep and pernicious roots in our nation's history. It is a cancer that needs to be cured, and affirmative action has been one of the most effective treatments
----------------
There is one thing the opponents of affirmative action have never wanted to admit: It works
----------------
If we make room for everybody, there will be more room for everybody. An integrated America, where each and every American is treated with the same dignity and respect, is a better America for everyone.

Until that day arrives, every day the thousands of small and not-so-small judgments, discriminations and insults that some Americans must endure is an affront to us and all we stand for. And we are not going to remedy these injustices by ignoring them.

Democrats have always believed that our diversity is our greatest strength, whether in our schools, our workplaces, our government or our courts. Unlike the ideologues who deny the facts and denounce affirmative action, we will work for an America where everyone has a chance to contribute -- and receives the respect each and every American deserves.

[sandnsea]

16. I'm for Affirmative Action

We've barely begun to make progress on equal opportunity for minorities. It isn't time to shift the focus to income because there will be more poor whites than poor minorities for some time to come. It would just be an excuse to push minorities to the side again. I don't know why people think we've come so far when unemployment, prison populations, schools, health care, and probably alot more I don't know about, still show racial disparity.

There's several good candidates with good credentials on racial equality. I think we ought to stick to our principles and support them.

[FrenchieCat]

19. Agree....

On another thread some were saying that Dean wants to make it Class based......although, when you are unemployed and trying to get a job, that's irrelevant.

But beyond that, when you're black and the taxi passes you by.....he doesn't stop to look at your bank statement prior to his decision to keep going.

[NNN0LHI]

57. You ain't lying n/t

[RapidCreek]

117. While I agree with Sharpton more than Dean in most instances

in this case I think Sharpton is dead wrong. The protections afforded by Affirmative Action should not be the sole dominion of non-Caucasian Americans. Those of non-Caucasian origins who insist that it should, feed an evil thats deep and pernicious roots spread 'round the globe, transcending time, culture and the borders of nations. Classicism is the hideous weed which sprouts from these roots. It thrives in the darkness of selfish arrogance. Stinking fruit, each a different xenophobic shade, hangs heavily from its limbs. Plucking one to the exclusion of the rest affords sustenance to those that remain. If we are to be free of this weed, the hand of affirmative action must remove all of it's stinking fruits and shine upon it an egalitarian light.

Chauncey Gardener

[Cheswick2.0]

124. AA is not all about non caucasians..........

it also offers protection to women, who are not a minority but treated as one. Al Sharpton is absolutely right. White males do not need AA regardless of their financial status.

[loudnclear]

140. Speak the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

Blacks are not monlithic in thinking or actions. I'd like to know exactly where Dean stands also. I'm for affirmative action, gun control, labor. Nothing wrong with fleshing this out before we put our support behind someone who is not going to represent the BIG Tent.
Jesse Jackson Jr. and Conyers have a right to support whomever they want. Al has a right to disagree with them.

[dkf]

150. How can Al Sharpton support Clark after his support for bombing Vieques?

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/8777.htm

WASHINGTON - Wesley Clark was an ardent advocate of live-fire bombing on the Puerto Rican island of Vieques - putting him at odds with virtually every Democrat in New York, The Post has learned.

It also puts Clark in conflict on the emotional issue with one of his most important backers in Congress - Rep. Charles Rangel (D-Manhattan).

Rangel said the revelation would not stop him from supporting Clark, but added, "I hope that when he's elected, over a drink I can give him hell over Vieques."

snip
Sharpton vowed to confront Clark at the Democratic debate on Sunday.

[SahaleArm]

152. Might as well quote the Moonie Times.

> Wesley Clark was an ardent advocate of live-fire bombing on the
> Puerto Rican island of Vieques - putting him at odds with virtually
> every Democrat in New York, The Post has learned.

Learned from whom, Hugh Shelton or Karl Rove? The only sources that have covered this story are the Post and Newsmax.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

2. Holy. Fucking. Shit.

I have no words. I love Al, but I had no idea he felt this strongly about Dean's stances on race. These comments are even more detailed and damning than the earlier story I read.

I have some concerns about Dean, but even I don't think he's as bad as Al is saying here. Still, it's not my place to try to speak for the concerns of the black community, certainly.

I guess the big issue is whether Al's charges will gain any traction.

DTH

[pruner]

7. I would've loved to see Dean respond by…

issuing PRs quoting some of Sharpton's (many) anti-Jew remarks from years ago.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Why, would sharpton's comments about another subject....

Clear Dean's view on this one??????

Is it a tooth for a tooth????? "Retaliation" as it's known in the White House. Is that the case in Dean's house as well?

This is an important issue. Dean should address the issue, not fight back at the messenger.

This issue concerns minorities such as myself, so I think that a "Flip" attitute is not the answer.....

[pruner]

20. I was just kidding…

I think the Dean camp has responded to the matter properly.

Sharpton is looking to pit blacks against Dean for no reason other than the fact that he's upset high profile black leaders (people who, unlike Sharpton, are respected) are supporting Dean.

as a NYer, it's no surpise to me that Sharpton has such a great sense of humor (as he's shown at the debates)… after all, he's been a joke here for years.

[FrenchieCat]

22. Well, why don't you explain Dean stance

on affirmative action then. Instead of dogging out Sharpton, all kidding like...

[pruner]

24. Dean's stance is that race should not be the ONLY factor

n/t

[DoveTurnedHawk]

26. In 1995, He Said Race Shouldn't Be a Factor at All

So what gives, then?

DTH

[TLM]

51. What gives...cite the whole quote and you'll see

Oh but that might means one less attack meme, so I doubt you'll be doing that any time soon.


Jackson Urges Democrats to Accentuate the Positive

Calls On All Democrats To Reject Racial Rhetoric

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson today said, "Al Sharpton is making a great contribution to the Democratic Party with his performances in the debates, his inspirational speeches on the campaign trail, his raising of the political consciousness of voters on issues that many of the other candidates will not touch, and by bringing new voters into the process.

"But no contribution of the Rev. Al Sharpton has been greater than the role he has played of statesman in the debates - of urging fellow competitors to 'first do not harm' to one another. It was Al Sharpton who said in the first debate in South Carolina, televised by ABC, that the 'Democrats should not have a debate and George Bush turn out to be the winner.' He has constantly reminded his fellow Democratic presidential candidates that the goal is to defeat President Bush in November, 2004. He has also said that while he understands there will be competition between each of them, none of them should do any harm to the other candidates that would prevent them from defeating George Bush.

"Unfortunately, Rev. Sharpton has rejected his own advice. The spirit of Rev. Sharpton's release in that regard is over-the-top and mostly inaccurate. Rev. Sharpton is inaccurate when he says that Howard Dean is 'opposed to affirmative action.' Even the 1995 quote he attributes to Gov. Dean is not a statement 'opposed' to affirmative action, but an argument for a broader criteria. More importantly, during this campaign Governor Dean has clearly stated for the record that he supports affirmative action based on race, gender and class - which is what the law requires.

"Whoever the ultimate nominee of the Democratic Party is I intend to support -- and I will not agree with them on every issue. Gov. Dean and I may just have to agree to disagree on the death penalty. However, I would remind Rev. Sharpton that both he and I supported Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996 even though he supported the death penalty and ending welfare as we know it -- both of which we disagreed with.

"With respect to gun control, Gov. Dean supports all of the common sense FEDERAL laws and proposed laws with respect to renewal of the assault weapons ban, holding gun manufacturers responsible, adequately checking purchasers at gun shows. But beyond that he argues that different states have different needs, and I agree. Not every state values hunters and hunting equally and I respect and agree with Gov. Dean in that regard.

"I don't understand why I am being singled out. Rep. Major Owens, from New York, endorsed Gov. Dean some time ago, but none of these issues were raised. No member of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) has endorsed Rev. Sharpton, and there were other members of the CBC in the New York Times article who indicated that they too may be on the verge of endorsing Gov. Dean.

"I also don't understand Rev. Sharpton's attempt to introduce 'race' into the campaign by using such rhetoric as 'anti-black' with respect to Gov. Dean. I challenge all of the other candidates to urge Rev. Sharpton to resist using such inflammatory rhetoric.

"Clearly, Gov. Dean is not anti-black and it is ridiculous for Rev. Sharpton to compare him to President George Bush in that regard. When it comes to addressing issues that directly affect African Americans, and indirectly affects all Americans, Gov. Dean clearly has good record. Up until this point -- until I indicated my intention to endorse Gov. Dean - the Democratic campaign has been free of such racial rhetoric. I would recommend that it remain so. Such rhetoric will not contribute to defeating George W. Bush in 2004. Indeed, it will insure his re-election."

[FrenchieCat]

68. Why are you giving me Jackson's statement

When I asked about Dean's stance?

[FrenchieCat]

29. Are you kidding me? That 's your answer? No Text??????

Not even a sentence???????

[Egnever]

30. Oh stop

You serious with this crap?

Dean is quite clear on race he doesnt believe in it. same goes for gender and sexual orientation.

Sharpton is barking up the wrong tree here.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Dean doesn't believe in Race??????

What kind of a statement is that? That's not even an educated answer!

[Egnever]

38. nope

As in he doesnt see it. He is color blind.

[FrenchieCat]

44. well, well, well....

How convenient to be color blind when it's not your color that's problematic to you living a life full of opportunity!

[Cheswick2.0]

126. what? What kind of asshole claims to be colorblind?

No one is color blind. It may be convenient to pretend you are so you don't have to face facts. Is that what you are claiming Dean is doing?

[Orangepeel]

128. Absolutely incorrect interpretation of Dean's stance

Dean is well aware that racism is still prevalent.

I'm paraphrasing based on what he said during his "world's largest conference call," but I've heard him say that Affirmative Action based on race is necessary, both to address past inequities and because much racism is largely unconcious. People tend to want to associate with people like themselves, when they are making decisions about hiring and admissions, even if they don't realize that they are doing it. There is also plenty of overt racism, of course, but that is somewhat easier to fight against because you can identify it and call it what it is. We need programs to address racial inequities because even people who swear up and down that they aren't racist and probably really believe that, tend to act in ways that perpetuate racial inequities.

For Dean's own words:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_affirmativeaction

I am delighted that the Supreme Court has upheld the principle of affirmative action in education. This was a victory for the civil rights of all Americans. The Bush Administration had urged the Court to reverse course in the nation’s historic march to equality, but the Court’s majority wisely refused to do so.

When President Bush used the inflammatory word “quota” to describe the Michigan program, I criticized him for distorting the facts. Now, the Supreme Court has rejected that misleading label. It is time for the President to stop using code words that divide Americans by race, gender, income, and sexual orientation.

As President, I would pursue policies that encourage racial diversity on college campuses because I know that diversity serves important goals -- it produces benefits for all students, and for society as a whole. The Supreme Court decision clears the way for policies that advance both equity and excellence.

In her majority opinion Justice O'Connor suggests that race-sensitive affirmative action will no longer be necessary in 25 years. If Justice O'Connor is saying that these programs should fade away when they are no longer needed, I agree wholeheartedly. If she is predicting that the need will disappear within 25 years, I hope she's right, but we should wait and see. If she is setting a deadline, regardless of realities, then she is mistaken, and perhaps a future Court will make an adjustment.

But even now, with the ink barely dry on the Court’s decision, extreme opponents of affirmative action are promising to make the dismantling of these programs a litmus test for Supreme Court nominations. President Bush should speak out against such demands from his right flank. He should commit himself now to seek nominees who will stand in the mainstream, committed to progress not rollback.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

33. So It's "Crap" If a Person of Color Is Concerned About Affirmative Action?

Nice. Glad to see we're such an enlightened party.

:eyes:

DTH

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

45. "Take the Chip Off Your Shoulder"

OMG. That is perhaps one of the most patronizing, racist things I've read on this forum.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

DTH

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TLM]

62. Wow are all the Clark folks going to post to this thread

to add to the race baiting, then accuse anybody who calles them on it of being racist?

[TLM]

Yeah that's no chip

Just an agenda to attack Dean at all costs to push Clark.

Even if that means pushing attacks that are clarly baseless.

Sharpton is pissed because jessie jackson jr is supporting Dean and not him... and it is quite clear you are trying to fan the flames because of your agenda to push clark and attack dean.


You should be ashamed of yourself for pushing such obvious race baiting.

[FrenchieCat]

46. Who called Dean a racist????

And who is to address this issue in a regular way instead of dogging out Al Sharpton????

[ryharrin]

50. Who called Dean a racist?

Did you miss the title of this thread? "Sharpton calls Dean's agenda 'anti-black'" I'd say that is calling Dean racist.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

60. Al Sharpton Isn't Here on This Board for Egnever To Attack

That's the point, sorry you appear to have missed it.

DTH

[ryharrin]

64. If you're agreeing with Sharpton's attack, you're

calling Dean a racist. I don't think I missed anything.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

66. You Obviously Missed My Post #2, at Least

"I have some concerns about Dean, but even I don't think he's as bad as Al is saying here."

Making a segue from Al's statement to asking questions about Dean's record on affirmative action is not the same thing as calling him a racist. It's not even in the same fucking ballpark.

DTH

[ryharrin]

72. Ok, I did miss your post #2,

I'm sorry. But there are definitely posts on this thread taking Sharpton's accusations very literally. I personally have seen nothing from any of the democratic candidates that would indicate that they would do nothing less than advance causes important to african americans.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

75. Apology Accepted

Thank you. As for the candidates, I think it's really about a question of degree. Some candidates are perceived as more willing to pay attention to issues impacting people of color.

And on this issue of prioritization, I don't think you need to take Al literally at his word in order to ask pointed questions about Dean. Even though Al's rhetoric is overheated, he raises legitimate questions, IMO. Based on Dean's history, I, too, am concerned about his commitment to affirmative action, and that is one of the biggest issues in the race, at least for me.

DTH

[ryharrin]

95. What exactly from Dean's history makes you think this?

one quote from years ago taken out of context? if its more than that, I haven't seen it, and I'd like to see it. My reason for supporting Dean is his outspoken support for civil rights. It just happens to be in support of gay rights. I haven't found any reason to think that it would not transfer to other civil rights.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

98. How Do You Know It's "Out of Context"

That quote is not from all that long ago. It would really bother me if it turns out Dean didn't support race-based affirmative action.

I'm also concerned about his stance on capital punishment, although I understand he's not an ideologue on this issue.

Gun control, I'm less exercised about.

I'm also concerned that he simply doesn't have the historical grounding on racial issues that I might otherwise prefer (and no, I don't think having a black roommate at Yale is a cure-all on this), especially seeing how he grew up on Park Avenue and was governor of a very white state.

Don't get me wrong...it will not stop me from voting for him if he gets our party's nomination. It just confirms that for me, he's in the middle-of-the-pack for good reasons.

DTH

[ryharrin]

101. Who has the historical grounding on this?

Sharpton and Braun of course. Who else? What makes someone more of an authority on race than another? Is it not another form of discrimination to insist that someone must be from a certain background or else they can have no opinion on affirmative action? Also, what do you mean by saying that Dean is "middle-of-the-pack"? If you mean in the race in general, its hard to deny he's the leader. If you mean on the liberal-conservative scale, he's right next to Clark to the right of Kucinich and Sharpton, and to the right of Lieberman.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

105. No, I Think Quite a Few Candidates Have Better Grounding on Race Than Dean

Sharpton and Mosely-Braun, of course, but also Edwards, Clark, and yes, even Joe Lieberman (gasp).

Is it not another form of discrimination to insist that someone must be from a certain background or else they can have no opinion on affirmative action?

I'm sorry, but who's saying that? Who's even saying anything remotely like that?

As for "middle-of-the-pack," I'm referring to my own personal opinions and esteem.

DTH

[ryharrin]

111. It seemed like you were saying that.

What makes Edwarks, Clark, and Joe better than Dean?

[TLM]

102. Did you read jessie jackson jr's response?

[TLM]

74. You really must think people here are stupid....

The whole point of your posting this was to attack Dean on race issues... Sharpton dealt the race card and you were more than happy to try and play it.


It is a shame you'd stoop so low.

[incapsulated]

67. I'll call him

Not a good democratic reperesentative for black people.

His pro-prosecution, anti-defendant stand back in Vermont was enough to figure that out, and Sharpton didn't enter into it. But the dismissive attitude toward his criticism, whatever his motivation for saying it, speaks to the attitude of some white liberals when it comes to the concerns of black people. "When it suits them".

[DoveTurnedHawk]

70. RIGHT ON!

But the dismissive attitude toward his criticism, whatever his motivation for saying it, speaks to the attitude of some white liberals when it comes to the concerns of black people. "When it suits them".

:thumbsup:

This is exactly right. It's sad, and it's sickening. I guess I'm not really surprised to see it happen here, too, but I am disappointed.

DTH

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

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[SahaleArm]

87. Except he didn't call Dean a racist.

He's pointing out the portion of Dean's views that he feels do not give blacks equal footing. Dean will have every oppurtunity to clarify his positions. That's not race baiting.

[TLM]

91. I was talking more about the "white liberals" crap...

than what he said about Dean...

[incapsulated]

97. You don't know many black people do you?

Because you would get an earfull about what a lot of them think of "white liberals" if you did. My criticism was very mild in comparison, believe me.

[TLM]

108. mild race baiting is still race baiting....

maybe you didn't mean it the way it came across... I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on that...but do me a favor, go back and read you posts and replace "white liberals" with "black liberals" and as yourself if you'd consider it racist if a white dude had posted it.

Be honest. You don't have to post anything, just be honest with yourself...

And for your information... I have a thing for the sistas, so ya I do know plenty of black folks and I have gotten earfulls that were far wrose than anything you've posted... but that doesn't change what you posted.

[SahaleArm]

113. You're ignoring a basic disconnect.

Scroll down to 'Black peace activism questioned': http://www.blackcommentator.com/33/33_issues.html

[Hep]

167. I know a lot of black people

ANd I have no idea what you are talking about. But then most people I know don't generalize the way you apparently condone.

[incapsulated]

82. Please stop calling me a "race baiter"

Nothing I said is race baiting, it is my own opinion. You are free to disagree, from your stance as what I assume is that of a white person. But when a black person criticizes a candidate, or the the attack of the person levelling those charges, is dismissed as "race baiting", I find it "racist" myself.

I'm no Sharpton lover, I'm from NYC and lived through that Tawana farce. I was often in complete and hostile disagreement with other black people about that incident. My feelings about Dean and whether he would be a good representative for the issues that people of color have are completely my own. I don't think he is a racist, but I find some of the defense of him exposes a dismissive attitude toward racial issues simply because it might hurt your canditate, with no regard to what it might mean for black people.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

86. I Have No Idea Who You're Responding To

But if it's what I think it is (a white person calling a black person a "race baiter"), then I think it's despicable, and it has NO place on a progressive board.

DTH

[incapsulated]

88. "TLM"

Who is posting up and down the thread about "race baiting".

"And your attacks on white liberals are very racist, please stop with the race baiting."

[DoveTurnedHawk]

93. Puke

Although I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. TLM attacks anyone who refuses to worship Dean, anyone who dares to question Dean, especially if it's a Clark supporter who's doing the questioning.

It's funny, because for some reason TLM has no problem whatsoever with posting "content" that consists of the most vile, absurd and hypocritical character assassinations of Clark.

DTH

[TLM]

99. Does he point out how the crack about white liberals isn't race baiting

Or in true Clark Corps form does he resort to personal attacks.

Feel free to refute aything I've said about Clark because a war criminal or an employee of henry kissinger... oh that's right you can't so you'll just personal attack me instead.

But hey I'm just a white liberal right...

[TLM]

96. Again with the race baiting....

So a white guy is not allowed to call a black guy on race baiting comments?

Or is it that the black guy is not capable of race baiting comments?

Why should the race of either party matter... race baiting is race baiting and claiming that white liberals defending dean are really just defending dean as a way of dismissing important race issues is race baiting, no matter what race you are.

[TLM]

90. Then please stop race baiting...

When you attack "white liberals" like they somehow are racist for getting upset with sharpton over this sudden baseless attack on Dean... that's race baiting. You are trying to say that their reaction is based on their race, and not simply on the fact that they didn't like the cheap baseless attack from Sharpton.

It is the exact same shit as when someone doesn;t like something lieberman says and they're accused of anti-semitism.

Nobody is dismissing the issue of aa or any other racial issues simply because they defend him against a baseless attack. And again that is also an example of race baiting on your part... someone makes a baseless accusation of racism, and when that accusation is challenged, you act as if that person is challenging the validity of the underlying issue... not that of the accusation itself, so you can accuse them of racism as well.

I know you guys are really trying to do anything to attack Dean, but damn this is lower than i thought you'd sink.

I'll be putting you and DTH in my ignore file now.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

104. Deleted message

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[TLM]

109. I haven't put you on yet...

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

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[TLM]

110. Does anybody not consider sharpton a race baiter?

I mean come on now. Sometimes he does use race as a very inflamatory weapon when it is uncalled for, simply to get attention... this is one of those times to be sure.

Sharpton does a lot of good on the whole, but he does some stupid shit too... and calling him on it doesn't make one a racist. Unless you consider jessie jackson jr a racist too, since he also called Sharpton on this.

"I also don't understand Rev. Sharpton's attempt to introduce 'race' into the campaign by using such rhetoric as 'anti-black' with respect to Gov. Dean. I challenge all of the other candidates to urge Rev. Sharpton to resist using such inflammatory rhetoric."


If using unfounded inflamatory race rhetoric to attack someone isn't race baiting, what is?

[Hep]

160. They will gain traction

Al Sharpton is a highly influential leader in the black community.

[La_Serpiente]

4. Oh geez

Go here for Dean's Death Penalty policy.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_capitalpunishment

"I believe the death penalty should be available for extreme and heinous crimes, such as terrorism or the killing of police officers or young children. But it must be carried out with scrupulous fairness. I applaud former Illinois Governor George Ryan, who imposed a moratorium rather than administer a system in which 13 innocent men were released from death row. In contrast, George Bush presided over a Texas court system in which dozens of men were put to death without adequate representation. Some had been represented at trial by lawyers who were sleeping or drunk."

Here is what he would do:

"As President, I would:

1)Promptly instruct my Attorney General to evaluate the federal death penalty system, take steps to ensure that it is applied fairly and reliably, and reverse Ashcroft’s overzealous policies.

2)Push for passage of the federal Innocence Protection Act to strengthen protections against unjust imposition of the death penalty.

3)Establish a Presidential Commission on the Administration of Capital Punishment to analyze the causes of wrongful convictions around the country and recommend additional reforms at the federal and state level."

[birdman]

5. Sharpton is NOT a friend of Democrats

or their ideas. He never has been.
The Rev. Al is about the Rev. Al.

If Dean gets the nomination will Sharpton
call the party racist and endorse Bush ?
It fits his previous patterns of behavior.

[FrenchieCat]

14. So again, we go after the messenger....

and do a little bit of name calling...and the actual issue raised never sees the light of day????

This does sound like Bushspeak.......He retaliates, calles names and avoid issues.

I hope that Dean is not going to be represented by his supporters in that same vein!

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[birdman]

12. He's been pulling this same shit in NY for years

He doesn't need a vacation. This is SOP for this clown.

Sharpton is a race-hustling con-man. Don't be suprised if
he endorses Bush.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Birdman.....

How low can you go to defend your candidate....not even by addressing the issue....but by assasinating the one who dares say it.

That's one thing I can say about this country....Racism is alive and well.

Sharpton may be a lot of things....but I believe that your portrait of him is down right mean!

Yesterday, Al was everyone's good buddy. Today, he dared say something uncomfortable....and now, he's trash?

Wow.....DUers....please don't disappoint me! I had big hopes for those who call themselves "liberals"!

[birdman]

23. He's exactly the same as he was yesterday

and he's always been the same. I'm sorry but nobody
who knows anything at all about this mans history should
support him in any way.

Tawana Brawley ?
Crown Heights ?
Endorsements of Al D'Amato and Pataki and Bloomberg ?

Same old. Same old.

No one who considers themself progressive should have anything
to do with this guy. I've said that from the start. All you
have to do is look at his history.

[FrenchieCat]

31. I know all about the demonizing of Al Sharpton

goes something like the demonizing of Teddy Kennedy...all brought to you by White corporate media.

Is this DU??? or Have I entered another website...one that doesn't toot itself as progressive? Cause I am confused as to what is currently going on in this thread.

I am very disappointed.

[Egnever]

36. Me too

I cant believe you are taking this seriously. If you are truely concerned about it go look into deans record. The guy is no racist. Or better yet go to cspan and watch the recent interview they did with him on road to the white house. At the end after he speaks, which is well worth listening to btw, they take a tour of his office. Pay special attention to the meeting that is going on in the glass room. Its a freaking rainbow coalition if I've ever seen one.

Or you could take my word for it I spoke to him tonight and this guy is no racist.

I am sure if you look farther than Al's accusations you will find they are baselesss.

[FrenchieCat]

73. Could you be a dear

and located for me? As I am not a Dean follower, I wouldn't know where to look. I am sure that you must know where his record on the issue is....and post them here.

[birdman]

40. You mean the Tawana Brawley thing never happened ?

It was just a creation of the man ?

I guess that court judgement against Sharpton was based
on false news reports.

And he never endorsed all those people ? Was that the white, corporate media too ?

[FrenchieCat]

49. can you tell me when that was?

What year?

[birdman]

53. 1987-88

What relevence does that have ?

[FrenchieCat]

61. What was Dean doing in 1988?

It has a lot of relevance......you'll see.

[birdman]

65. That has nothing to do with Dean

It has to do with leveling accusations that Sharpton knew
to be false.

He was a crook then. He's a crook now.

[FrenchieCat]

77. So let me get this straight......Shartpon is a crook now?

Let me make sure I've got you right and on record.

[birdman]

79. He's never been anything else

Read up on Tawana Brawley. How can you not call him a crook?

http://eightiesclub.tripod.com/id251.htm

[marcopolo]

8. Then there are the last two graphs of the article...

"Donna Brazile, who managed Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign, yesterday dismissed Sharpton's attacks as a ploy to boost his standing in the polls.

'I think Dean's record on civil rights issues, on affirmative action -- his willingness to talk about race in a very inclusive way -- has been refreshing,' said Brazile, who is African American. 'These long-shot candidates, all they're doing is taking aim at the top tier because they're frustrated. I think Reverend Sharpton should keep his focus on ideas.'"

[newyawker99]

153. Hi marcopolo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Resistance Is Futile]

10. This guy's a loon

[La_Serpiente]

11. I have a feeling

that this is going to send a huge schism through the Black community.

[FrenchieCat]

21. it just did...

based on the comments of his supporters......I see now that "sensitivity" is a one way door mat sign.

Al Sharpton was the man yesterday....telling it like it is....
today, he's trash...
how convenient...

In that way, there is no need for debate on the issue....just creepy pronouncements on the messenger...

Yes Al, how dare you cause any trouble for Dean...

It's ok for Dean to trash Wes Clark about "a Republican for 25 days"...and take out an ad calling ourself the only Real Anti-war candidate...

But don't let Black Al Sharpton have anything to say, and he's a creep?

Gee....sounds like a lot of hypocracy is in the air.

[wtmusic]

15. I wish he didn't have to go there

I actually had a fair amt of respect for Al, but fuck him. Dean is anything but anti-black.

[FrenchieCat]

27. Can you please explain your rational for

sluring Al Sharpton in that manner?

Your respect for Al, a black man, commenting on a white man stance on affirmative action makes you lose respect for the Black man.

Wow.....

That was some "fairly" shaky amount of respect if you ask me.

Guess Al should just shut up and go away now.....

Yesterday, he was the toast of the town! This is unbelievable.

and what about the issue of Affirmative action? What does your man, Dean think about it.

Should it be about Class????? Like when you're looking for a job, you must show them your bank statement first...then they decide that if you've got enough money, they can just hire the white person in line behind you? Affirmative action is not just about School......and it's too bad that some don't realize it.

[fujiyama]

42. I would say Al's the one...

slurring Dean. I myself have not been the biggest fan of Dean. I have been very critical of him, but these kind of attacks are simply disgusting and uncalled for.

The same goes with Lieberman. His trashing of Dean has annoyed me greatly.

All these attacks weaken the party because they definetely strengthen GOP talking points.

The last thing the democrats can afford is a rift in its base. No community has been hurt more by Bush's policies than African Americans. We need them out in full force in '04.

Plus, he's got Jesse Jackson Jr's endorsement, which is quite impressive (considering Jackson had a lit of candidates to choose from).

Al's been very very entertaining in the debates, and he has many times been dead on about Bush's policies, but his history of race baiting is begining to show.

[FrenchieCat]

56. Race baiting???

What is that exactly??? Race baiting, I mean???

You mean when black people bring up subjects about Affirmative Action, and calls a Dean on it. I thought that Dean was the only one in the entire pack (according to him at the 2nd debate) that talks to white people about race. Does he talk to black people about it too?

The sad thing is that no one has really addressed the issue, other than to say, Dean is color blind....well a Dean Administration ain't going to be about what Dean doesn't see....now is it?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

17. Some Things To Consider

1) IMO, this is BY FAR the harshest charge any candidate has leveled against any other candidate so far.

2) Al has received some of the best and warmest receptions at the debates, both from the crowd and here. Will all that change now? Will he now be dismissed as a "loon" or an attention-seeking opportunist by the same people who crowed about how awesome Al has been doing in the debates?

3) Al has a loyal following within the black community. Will these charges stick? Will the supporters of Al within the black community rally around Dean, if he is our nominee?

4) Why isn't support of race-based affirmative action as much of a litmus test for Democrats as, say, abortion or the Iraq war?

DTH

[TLM]

28. Dean is a supporter of AA... a vocal supporter

I think that quote is misleading...Dean wasn't talking about getting rid of AA, but about doing more for the working poor regardless of race through similar programs.



Dean Statement on University of Michigan Decisions

I am delighted that the Supreme Court has upheld the principle of affirmative action in education. This was a victory for the civil rights of all Americans. The Bush Administration had urged the Court to reverse course in the nation’s historic march to equality, but the Court’s majority wisely refused to do so.

When President Bush used the inflammatory word “quota” to describe the Michigan program, I criticized him for distorting the facts. Now, the Supreme Court has rejected that misleading label. It is time for the President to stop using code words that divide Americans by race, gender, income, and sexual orientation.

As President, I would pursue policies that encourage racial diversity on college campuses because I know that diversity serves important goals -- it produces benefits for all students, and for society as a whole. The Supreme Court decision clears the way for policies that advance both equity and excellence.

In her majority opinion Justice O'Connor suggests that race-sensitive affirmative action will no longer be necessary in 25 years. If Justice O'Connor is saying that these programs should fade away when they are no longer needed, I agree wholeheartedly. If she is predicting that the need will disappear within 25 years, I hope she's right, but we should wait and see. If she is setting a deadline, regardless of realities, then she is mistaken, and perhaps a future Court will make an adjustment.

But even now, with the ink barely dry on the Court’s decision, extreme opponents of affirmative action are promising to make the dismantling of these programs a litmus test for Supreme Court nominations. President Bush should speak out against such demands from his right flank. He should commit himself now to seek nominees who will stand in the mainstream, committed to progress not rollback.

[incapsulated]

25. Dean is in trouble

If Reverend Al has decided to take off the gloves with him.

I know that the Deaniacs will come out of the woodwork to comdenm him as a loon and con artist now that he has done this. The same ones that thought he was so cute before!

Sharpton is in this race, not because he thinks he can win, but to gain power and influence in the party. You are now seeing him begin to flex those muscles because, based on the polling, a lot of black folks are choosing him as their candidate in the primaries. Get used to it. I'm glad for it, even with my very mixed feelings about him. I find it irritating that there is so little voice for black voters in the party and that once again Sharpton has stepped in to fill the void. But at least he is there.

[TLM]

34. Sure is odd how the people pushing this all seem to be

Clark folks. One Clark corps guy posts it, then the rest chime in to prop up the attack and post about how bad this will hurt Dean.

Little wishful thinking... and trying real hard to fan Sharpton's flame.

[incapsulated]

39. Maybe it's because some of those "Clark corps"

Are real, live people of color. Myself included.

I'm not at all suprised that white liberals would find Sharpton so cute and amusing one day and attack him once he stepped out of line.

Some things never change, eh?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

43. Me Too

Generally speaking, I love how certain elite, affluent white folks get all huffy when a person of color demands that attention be paid to the issue of race.

(I couldn't be speaking specifically, of course, as I have no idea whose post you're responding to.)

DTH

[Egnever]

47. I still think hes great!

Its politics and dean was making a move so he needed to.

Its a Bs attack but so what. It wont stick. Deans no racists and hes certainly not against afirmative action.

I am suprised by the attack from sharpton but not very really.

Sharpton is great I hope he keeps slaping that donkey.

I dont really think this was really smart of him though as it has no basis in reality.

[birdman]

58. You mean it's okay to make racial accusations that aren't true ?

That's what Sharptons entire career consists of.

[TLM]

80. Nope the attacs is baseless and flase...that won't stop the Clark Corps

from picking this up and running with it as it if was true.

The oppertunistic race baiting from the clark corps is more annoying to me than sharpton. I expect at least 10 % of what sharpton says to be total bullshit. But he was doing so well before this... really adding to the process and getting good points out there...but now he's fallen back into his old patterns.

[TLM]

69. Such desperate race baiting is so transparant...

Sharpton lobs a bullshit accusation because he's pissed Jessie Jackson Jr is supporting Dean and not him... then Clark corps pick it right up and start trying to fan the flames.

Then if you call them on it, you'll be accused of racism.


The fact is that SHarpton was doing a lot of good in the race, attacking bush and bringing issues up that needed a voice. However as is his pattern, when he doesn't get his way or someone pisses him off, suddenly he launches into some really stupid shit.

Have you read Jessie Jackson r's response to this lame and baseless accusation?

Or is Jessie a racist too for calling this accusation for the baseless race baiting it is?

[FrenchieCat]

83. Thank you....

Do I have to write with different color ink for you to realize that I am a person of color????? plus I posted it earlier in the post, if you ever read...........

Clark's people are black, didn't you know??????

Jesse Jackson and his friend are not the current trend????

That's why we know who's not electable in the South....and who won't get the military vote.

But this thread is invaluable....since I attend the largest black church in the Bay area, and my husband is a deacon there. Al spoke there just three weeks ago. I know, cause I sat in the 2nd pew....and shook his hand and said hello.....and thank you for telling America how it is. He was there with Barbara Lee and the Black female Reps from TX and Florida.

So does this thread really exemplify Dean's camp reaction to Affirmative action, i.e., not really wanting to debate the issue itself? But rather condemning the Reverend Al Sharpton.
The only cogent comment I heard was that he was color blind, which in the black community, is like telling a joke.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

85. "Color Blind," Ugh, I Want To Puke

Aside from the fact that it's a major RW talking point, it's also completely untrue. No one is truly "color blind" in this society.

"Color blind" is a convenient label used to prop up the myth of meritocracy.

DTH

[DemocratSinceBirth]

143. Wow

A color blind society is a worthy goal but it's hardly a reality...

People who advocate the immediate adoption of color blind policies without attempting to ameliorate existing inequalities wittingly or unwittingly want to ratify a racist status quo.....

[Hep]

161. Exactly

We don't become a colorblind society be legislation or decree.

[FrenchieCat]

41. I a

I am a black(biracial)woman.....and it is you that always seem to appear to defend Dean without ever addressing the issue.

So can you please explain Dean Stance on affirmative action, Please....

the last time you and I spoke, you put me on ignore because I dared document how the corporate/conservative media was pushing Dean and how the progressive press were defending Clark. However, at no time in our back and forth did you ever actually address the issue.

Is this a pattern?

[Hep]

162. I addressed the issue

and you ignored me, so please stop with the high road facade.

Deans AA position has been posted and can be found right here:

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_statement_civilrights_affirmativeaction

And you were wrong about the media, but never felt the need to discuss it when I showed you to be.

[dkf]

35. Sharpton's not as mad at Dean as he is mad at JJ and JJJ

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/29/politics/campaigns/29JESS.html?ex=1068008400&en=faf6690613da7a70&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

Mr. Jackson's neutrality is no surprise to Democratic Party officials, who say they would not expect him to squander his leverage this early in the campaign season. But it is a setback to the two black candidates, the Rev. Al Sharpton and Carol Moseley Braun, who could benefit most from his support, analysts say.

His silence, combined with the decision of his son, Representative Jesse L. Jackson Jr., Democrat of Illinois, to support Howard Dean, has exacerbated tensions between him and Mr. Sharpton, people close to them say. Mr. Sharpton, after all, is casting himself as the new Jesse Jackson.

snip
Mr. Sharpton was incensed this month when he heard that Representative Jackson was going on a South Carolina campaign trip with Dr. Dean. "I know I am being set up, sabotaged, they ain't got to say it," he said, at a church appearance, in oblique reference to that trip.

snip
Even before Mr. Sharpton decided to run, there was tension between him and the elder Mr. Jackson. That has grown worse, say people close to both men, some of whom say they see an effort by Mr. Jackson to hold onto his leadership status.

snip
Kevin Gray, who worked for Mr. Jackson's presidential campaign and advises Mr. Sharpton, said Mr. Jackson was unlikely to step aside for Mr. Sharpton. "Jesse has always said that you don't give up leadership, people have to take it," he said. "So Jesse is not going to hand over leadership of the black community to Al without a struggle."

[Isome]

52. Al & Jesse remain respectful of each other.

They may not agree on this that or the other politically, but there isn't some roiling rift between the men, nor between Al & Jesse Jr. So as far as ominous speculation about an impending "schism", just know that there'll be no divide & conquer this time, not a successful one anyway.

At the end of the day, those three men, and most people of African descent all know that: white folks will be white folks, and some black folks will be too. As evidenced by voting statistics, we have a general agreement on most things in the political arena.

[Jim Sagle]

54. I think Dean wants to EXPAND and BROADEN AA to INCLUDE

class AS WELL AS race, not to RESTRICT AA to class.

Sharpton is just not being fair to Dean. Frenchie, I don't think it's about disrespecting Sharpton, but about responding to HIS disrespect of Dean.

YMMV.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

55. "NOT on race but on class"

That is an unambiguous statement. In 1995, he did not support race-based affirmative action.

DTH

[SahaleArm]

71. What people are missing.

Middle class blacks and hispanics have trouble getting banks loans, job interviews, and equal pay simply due to skin color. That's reality not some lame Republican class argument.

[Bertrand]

78. Great point

the question is why did he specifically use the word "not" by itself in reference to race? It leads to your conclusion that he didnt support race-based affirmative action.

[FrenchieCat]

89. But Jim

If you reread the thread, you would see that nothing was addressed except for attacks on Sharpton....Character asassinations...
Even when I repeately asked for information.

This is not good....Already Clark is called murderer, war criminal, republican and everything else.....

Now Al Sharpton is down for the count.

This sort of tactic does remind me of Bush....this is the sort of tatics he and his minions use. I thought Democrats were better than that. But I find that Dean supporters are rabid...take TMV (or whatever is name is)....he attacks all....and never substantiates much. If he sees clark name in any thread....he's in line for the Bash!

[marcopolo]

59. Anyone have the transcript of the 1995 interview?

Or don't folks care about checking out original sources around here? I see a lot of talking head commentary, but I'd like to see Dean's words in their original 1995 interview context on Late Edition.

Especially since Sharpton seems to willfully exaggerate the anti-blackness of Dean's stance on the death penalty and gun control positions.

This tempest reminds me a bit of the asnine gun control question posed to Dean in the Faux News sponsored debate, something along the lines of "Dr. Dean, why do you believe that african-american neighborhoods need gun control, but rural white states do not?"

I will hold my judgement on all of this till I see that original quote in its entirety.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

63. Wow, A Fair Statement!

I'd almost given up hope on seeing one.

I'd be curious to see the context as well. That said, from what we do know of it, it doesn't exactly fill me with warm fuzzies.

DTH

[DannyRed]

103. Do you REALLY

think that Jesse Jackson Jr. would endorse a candidate that was opposed to or soft on Affirmative Action?

Do you REALLY think that Rev. Sharpton is on target with this claim?

Did you REALLY read what Jackson Jr. wrote in response to Sharpton's attack, and what Dean wrote about the recent UMich supreme court decision?

SEPARATE from those issues, is the overall discussion of Affirmative Action...

[DoveTurnedHawk]

107. People Here Criticize Clark All the Time for Being a

"Johnny-come-lately" convert to certain Democratic issues. Well, if that's true (and I dispute it), that is CERTAINLY true of Dean as well. He's "evolved" on so many issues now that I've lost count.

When push comes to shove, I'm willing to take Dean at his word. I'm just not entirely comfortable about it.

As for Al, I think he's been dead-on about a lot of things so far in this race. I think he's clearly over-the-top in his criticism of Dean here, but also that Dean's positions on the issues here do deserve greater scrutiny than they've been getting.

Finally, I don't know much about JJJ (and yes, I read his rebuttal, as well as Owens' rebuttal), but I do know that the black community is not a monolith, and that different black leaders are concerned about (and prioritize) different things.

DTH

[FrenchieCat]

94. Yes, Please located it for us.....

I'll save the thread....and come back to see your post of the 1995 comments and attributed thread.

Thank you....finally, someone with some sense in handling an issue in a mature way.

[marcopolo]

116. I need lexis/nexis...

I have been looking for the original transcript of this for the past hour and a half and have come up with nada as I am not a professional and can only use google and a few other methods to search...my hope is that someone else (who is hooked into the system) will post it in the next day or so...

[Democat]

112. Dean is getting back what he's giving, and we all lose

Howard Dean should stop bashing other Democrats if he doesn't want them bashing him.

This is not good for any of us who want to get rid of Bush in 2004.

[JNelson6563]

114. um, so does this mean

no Sharpton press secretary in a Dean Administration?? Bummer.

This reminds me of a discussion I had on-line regarding reparations. I thought it was a better idea to invest heavily in seriously poor areas, child-care, job-training, schools, stuff like that. I thought it wiser than to just cut checks because as a struggling parent myself I know such checks would be gone toward bills etc very quickly. The person I was talking to claimed I hate blacks because of my idea, which didn't limit the investment to just blacks but all poor. *sigh*

Julie

[JaneQPublic]

115. Sharpton has also criticized other candidates

From a reprint of a NYT article, Jan. 12, 2003:

http://www.hrc.org/campaigns/2004/candidates/news/sharpton_nyt011303.asp

Asked about Senator Kerry, whom Mr. Sharpton described as the Democratic front-runner, Mr. Sharpton noted the paucity of blacks among Massachusetts's elected officials, and said he read a newspaper article the other day about racial profiling there.

"Where is Kerry in his home state?" Mr. Sharpton asked. "If I'm going to be in the debates, he's going to have to talk about that."

Mr. Lieberman, he said, was "an opponent of affirmative action," a characterization that does not square with how Mr. Lieberman describes his own views on the subject. Representative Richard A. Gephardt of Missouri "stood with the president on the war - and was part of the leadership that was absolutely defeated in 2002."

He saved his harshest words for Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, a trial lawyer who, Mr. Edwards's advisers argued, posed the greatest threat to Mr. Sharpton's hopes of a strong showing in the South.

"This guy got rich fighting for the regular guy," Mr. Sharpton said. "So I'm going to ask him at the debates: name one regular guy you fought for that you didn't get paid for. With a Sharpton-less race, he's gotten an easy ride."

[CWebster]

118. Doesn't look good for Sharpton

when Jackson endorses Dean.

How could Sharpton not react?
Sharpton shouldn't squander all his recent accolades.

[RogueTrooper]

120. Indeed

a bad move by Sharpton, although I have a feeling that it is all working in Dean's favor right now. I am not sure if getting into a p***ing match with the Jacksons' is a terribly good move by Brother Al.

The reponses from Jesse Jackson Jr. and Rep. Major Owens are both very strong.

[liberalcapitalist]

119. this is not good

:(

[w4rma]

121. Rep. Jesse L. Jackson's response to the attack from Rev. Al Sharpton

Statement by Rep. Jesse L. Jackson on Howard Dean's Record

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson issued a statement today responding to an attack on Howard Dean by Rev. Al Sharpton. The New York Times announced earlier today that Rep. Jackson will support Governor Dean's campaign in the coming weeks.

Congressman Jackson stated:

When it comes to addressing issues that directly affect African Americans, and indirectly affects all Americans, Gov. Dean clearly has good record. Up until this point -- until I indicated my intention to endorse Gov. Dean -- the Democratic campaign has been free of such racial rhetoric. I would recommend that it remain so. Such rhetoric will not contribute to defeating George W. Bush in 2004. Indeed, it will insure his re-election.

Jackson Urges Democrats to Accentuate the Positive

Calls On All Democrats To Reject Racial Rhetoric

Congressman Jesse L. Jackson today said, "Al Sharpton is making a great contribution to the Democratic Party with his performances in the debates, his inspirational speeches on the campaign trail, his raising of the political consciousness of voters on issues that many of the other candidates will not touch, and by bringing new voters into the process.

"But no contribution of the Rev. Al Sharpton has been greater than the role he has played of statesman in the debates - of urging fellow competitors to 'first do not harm' to one another. It was Al Sharpton who said in the first debate in South Carolina, televised by ABC, that the 'Democrats should not have a debate and George Bush turn out to be the winner.' He has constantly reminded his fellow Democratic presidential candidates that the goal is to defeat President Bush in November, 2004. He has also said that while he understands there will be competition between each of them, none of them should do any harm to the other candidates that would prevent them from defeating George Bush.

"Unfortunately, Rev. Sharpton has rejected his own advice. The spirit of Rev. Sharpton's release in that regard is over-the-top and mostly inaccurate. Rev. Sharpton is inaccurate when he says that Howard Dean is 'opposed to affirmative action.' Even the 1995 quote he attributes to Gov. Dean is not a statement 'opposed' to affirmative action, but an argument for a broader criteria. More importantly, during this campaign Governor Dean has clearly stated for the record that he supports affirmative action based on race, gender and class - which is what the law requires.

"Whoever the ultimate nominee of the Democratic Party is I intend to support -- and I will not agree with them on every issue. Gov. Dean and I may just have to agree to disagree on the death penalty. However, I would remind Rev. Sharpton that both he and I supported Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996 even though he supported the death penalty and ending welfare as we know it -- both of which we disagreed with.

"With respect to gun control, Gov. Dean supports all of the common sense FEDERAL laws and proposed laws with respect to renewal of the assault weapons ban, holding gun manufacturers responsible, adequately checking purchasers at gun shows. But beyond that he argues that different states have different needs, and I agree. Not every state values hunters and hunting equally and I respect and agree with Gov. Dean in that regard.

"I don't understand why I am being singled out. Rep. Major Owens, from New York, endorsed Gov. Dean some time ago, but none of these issues were raised. No member of the Congressional Black Caucus (CBC) has endorsed Rev. Sharpton, and there were other members of the CBC in the New York Times article who indicated that they too may be on the verge of endorsing Gov. Dean.

"I also don't understand Rev. Sharpton's attempt to introduce 'race' into the campaign by using such rhetoric as 'anti-black' with respect to Gov. Dean. I challenge all of the other candidates to urge Rev. Sharpton to resist using such inflammatory rhetoric.

"Clearly, Gov. Dean is not anti-black and it is ridiculous for Rev. Sharpton to compare him to President George Bush in that regard. When it comes to addressing issues that directly affect African Americans, and indirectly affects all Americans, Gov. Dean clearly has good record. Up until this point -- until I indicated my intention to endorse Gov. Dean - the Democratic campaign has been free of such racial rhetoric. I would recommend that it remain so. Such rhetoric will not contribute to defeating George W. Bush in 2004. Indeed, it will insure his re-election."

Posted by Joe Rospars at 07:30 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002031.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=188605

[w4rma]

122. Rep. Major Owens responds to the attack from Rev. Al Sharpton

Statement by Rep. Major Owens on Howard Dean's Leadership
Congressman Major R. Owens of New York issued a statement today responding to an attack on Howard Dean by Rev. Al Sharpton. He joins Rep. Jesse L. Jackson of Illinois, who also made a statement on the matter.

Rep. Owens said:

And no one should go forth with the mistaken assumption that the vital issue of war and peace is not important to the African American constituency. When the Congressional Black Caucus members overwhelmingly voted against the waste of 87 billion dollars in Iraq, they were expressing the will of the people in our neighborhoods who insist that our needs be met here at home first. Our people, our rank and file is already with Howard Dean. Black leaders must run to catch up.

Statement of Congressman Major R. Owens

"Al Sharpton is working hard and doing a good job of pushing for a Democratic Party agenda with a full inclusion of the issues that matter most to African Americans and working families. If media exposure was his only concern, he would do better by running in the General Election as an Independent. But Sharpton has chosen not to be a spoiler. His bottom line is the same as mine -- retire George W. Bush before he totally wrecks our democracy.

"To achieve our common ground goal of a Democrat in the White House, Howard Dean is the only candidate with a clear enough vision combined with toughness and independence. With respect to African American concerns, Dean starts with an evolving slate. The "doors of his church" are wide open to a broad spectrum of African American leadership. After his election, Howard Dean can be expected to bring into his circle of new national leadership more Black leaders than any of the other candidates. He has this flexibility because he doesn't owe the establishment any dues.

"And no one should go forth with the mistaken assumption that the vital issue of war and peace is not important to the African American constituency. When the Congressional Black Caucus members overwhelmingly voted against the waste of 87 billion dollars in Iraq, they were expressing the will of the people in our neighborhoods who insist that our needs be met here at home first. Our people, our rank and file is already with Howard Dean. Black leaders must run to catch up."

Posted by Joe Rospars at 09:32 PM
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002032.html

[CWebster]

123. Clark's worst liability is his supporters

Actually I prefer Clark's character to that of his supporters, who typically characterize the least progressive, most conservative values. So here you have a candidate trying to demonstrate his liberal leanings to appeal to Democrats, while his supporters rally around him in support of his appeal to Republican preferences of a strong military image. Clark typically does not engage in character assasination but his supporters spend more time bashing and less time qualifying their own candidate.

It ain't like Jackson is endorsing Clark and if he did, Sharpton would be all over him about his statement about Vieques.

[jonnyblitz]

125. I agree. He is much more progressive then his supporters.

I don't mind him in spite of them.

[JVS]

163. It is tough to be sure because Clark has no record.

So I can't tell if he is being truthful about his beliefs or just paying lip service to those beliefs. A strong conservative streak among his followers tends to favor the latter interpretation.

[SahaleArm]

127. You should worry about your own...

like TLM rather than making cheap blanket statements about Clark supporters. If Dean did not say that affirmative action should be based "not on race, but on class" then the truth will come out; he can of course clarify his position. The fact that there has been so much vitriol towards Sharpton for bringing up race is telling. This has nothing to do with Clark so don't try to change the subject.

[incapsulated]

130. I also noticed

That in your attempt to make this a "Clark supporters" smear on Dean, you didn't notice that many of those supporters happened to be black, which is why we were commenting on the issue. It has nothing to do with Clark, other than the fact he, along with Sharpton, happen to be popular among black voters.

[CWebster]

132. Hey

I don't give a shit if you are purple.

And if it is really about defending Sharpton then how come he isn't your candidate of choice?

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CWebster]

141. Noticed that you ignored Jackson's statements altogether

Although he is a respected Afro-American leader --without the baggage.

That just galls Sharpton. How could it not.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[incapsulated]

133. Please enlighten me

What is my agenda?

:eyes:

[CWebster]

136. the statement from Jackson

should address any concerns you might have....unless the question of race isn't really the issue.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

156. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SahaleArm]

135. Ignore it and it will go away?

Try arguing the point rather than attacking the person.

[CWebster]

137. Suggest you heed your own advice.

[SahaleArm]

139. Where have I attacked the person?

And not the point? I didn't start this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=609403#609754

[DemocratSinceBirth]

129. As An Analyst And Not An Advocate

this in not a good development for Dean and the Democratic party...

No matter how true or untrue Sharpton's accusations are they will resonate with some African American voters

(and)

if Al Sharpton decides to run as a third party candidate a Bush reeelection is assured...

The politics of race are combustible....

[Mike_from_NoVa]

169. this borders on irrelevant

This helps Dean in the general election, opening the door a crack for the non-partisan, naturally anti-incumbent "NASCAR Dads" to switch over. Lots of swing voters are concerned their priveleges are being eroded by things like affirmative action. They're wrong and possibly stupid, but there's no way they pay enough attention to get reeducated before the general election, so this, like his gun control record actually HELPS Dean more than the loss of a handful of AA votes. These swings are very large in number and many of them are probably saying "Sharpton don't like him? Well maybe he's ok then."

I actually think Sharpton's made a deal. He won't run 3rd party as long as Dean and/or other Dems don't use the media to pressure him out of the race prematurely by hitting back with examples of his corroded judgement - Tawana Brawley, Crown Heights, etc. As long as these stains on Sharpton's record are ignored, my theory is that Sharpton stays put, keeps "slapping the donkey", but supports (maybe even enthusiastically) the eventual nominee. At the end of the day, Bush out of office is everybody's highest goal.

Finally, the politics of race are interesting, but nowhere near as combustible today as they've been in the past. Black political activism is adult, mainstream, and respectable these days. Nobody is going to "combust" without leaders advocating combustion. I'm sure not hearing that from Sharpton, are you?

[Kamika]

138. Will he drop out already

And stop smacktalking our best hope

[DemocratSinceBirth]

145. Why Should He Drop Out?

He's polling better than Edwards, Moseley Braun, and Kucinich. He's tied with Gephardt and within striking distance of Kerry and Lieberman...

African Americans deserve to have someone who speaks passinately to their concerns....

Al's not my first choice..... Not by a long shot..... But he certainly has a right to run....

[IndianaGreen]

144. Sharpton was an FBI informant

I would like to hear his explanation for that!

[messiah]

147. Sharpton has done some very terrible

things but who in the hell is going to bring up the kind of issues that he will?. He probably was a fbi informant to get out of going to prison for a cocaine deal.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

148. I would hope that there is a better explanation....

The Reverend Al is not a saint but I hope he wasn't involved in any coke deals.

[messiah]

149. Probably not

Coke deal
http://www.realchange.org/sharpton.htm
Fbi informant
http://www.prisonactivist.org/pipermail/prisonact-list/2000-March/002720.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

151. Sad....

The right wing media is always looking for ammunition to discredit progressive leaders....

That's why IMHO it's important for them to live a life that's beyond reproach....

Look at Malcom... Yeah, he was a pimp, a burglar, and a drug dealer before he embraced Islam but after that he led a life that was beyond reproach...

I'd like ro see a scenario where the right wing tries to discredit one of our leaders and the investigator says we can't find anything ,the guy's a fucking boy scout.....

[CWebster]

154. "he right wing media is always looking ..."

You mean like Sharpton's charge that Dean is "anti-black"?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

157. I Was Referring To Stuff Like

Marion Barry's crack smoking on tape with a woman not his wife...

Al Sharpton's "involvement" in a coke deal...

Ted Kennnedy, who I have met , worked for, and admire myriad infidelities...

Gary Hart's "Monkey Business"

Jesse Jackson's illegitimate child...


We can't give the right wing "hammers" to take down our leaders...

I wouldn't want the press peeking into my entire life but I don't aspire to be a movement leader...

Movement leaders should strive to be beyond reproach...Like Ceasar's Wife...

* I specifically put involvement in quotation marks cuz I still don't know the real deal...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

146. How Come Al Sharpton Was Almost Everybody's Darling On This Board

until today?

He's been called in this thread a race baiter, an FBI informant and a kook...

Do you folks wonder how an African American would feel reading this thread...


Just yesterday DUers including some in this thread were attacking Tweaty for his harsh treatment of Al Sharpton on the Hardball College Tour...

In the name of intellectual honesty I have some problems with Al Sharpton but calling him a "race baiter" and "kook" are out of bounds...

[birdman]

159. How is criticizing Sharpton an attack on African Americans ?

I'm sorry the guy has a long ugly history of race baiting
and making false accusations against people for his own benefit.

That history is available to all who want to see it. And
that in no way reflects on any African American other than Sharpton.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

166. Did I Say Attacking Al Sharpton Was The Same As Attacking African

Americans?


No.....


I am just saying that some if not many African Americans would be upset on the attacks on Al Sharpton in this thread...

[CMT]

155. I've liked Sharpton's contribution to this campaign until now

when he is trying to bring race baiting into the campaign. There is no way that Dean is anti-black or any minority group or orientation. He has been quite upfront about talking about civil rights in this race and why it is important to have a national dialouge on the subject. He has ripped apart Bush on using the code work "quotas" for what it is--race baiting. He has won endorsments from prominent black leaders such as Major Owens and Jesse Jackson, Jr. This is totally uncalled for and lowered my estimation for Mr. Sharpton, which really had been growing.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

165. Did You See Bolwling For Columbine?

What do you think of Michael Moore's assertion in that movie which he made in a cartoon that folks buy guns to protect themselves from black folks?

I think there is a kernel of truth in that assertion... As a blanket statement it's silly but it was satire...


Some folks buy gun cuz they like to hunt.... Some folks buys guns cuz they like to collect them but there are some folks who buy guns because of a conscious or subconscious desire to protect themselves from black folks....

How many black folks do you think belong to the NRA?


I'll bet ... Not many....

[Khephra]

164. Here's the non-racial aspect about this that's bothering me

Sharpton has made it a BIG point in the debates about not attacking other Democrats, JJJ endorses Dean, and then Sharpton attacks Dean.

Tell me how in the hell that doesn't make Sharpton a hypocrite, or at the very least petty?

[Skinner]

168. This thread can't be saved.

I'm locking it.

Skinner
DU Admin

[KaraokeKarlton]

170. This is directed at everyone posting here arguing over this

This has got to be the most ignorant, immature, senseless and divisive "discussion" I've yet to see on this site. First of all, Howard Dean is NOT anti-black. He never has been and never will be. I have no doubt that there are probably some issues important to black people that Dean doesn't have a full understanding or awareness of, just like ANYONE who is not black is going to have. However, Dean is not only willing to listen to and look objectively at these issues, but he WANTS to listen and look at them. There are NO "second class citizens" to Dean. He treats everyone the same, period.

Dean is absolutely right about where the source of passive discrimination comes from. Nothing can be done to change the ignorance of overt bigots. That's not even where the problems for blacks are. The problems come from getting passed over for jobs, housing, cabs and just being viewed as less trustworthy or ethical. The responsibility for this problem lies with both whites and blacks. As long as people gravitate towards people who remind them of themselves rather than towards people different than they are too, this passive discrimination is going to exist. Thankfully, this becomes less of a problem as each new generation is born. My kids don't even think about this stuff and they tend to gravitate towards people who are different than they are. This tendency is going to resolve those issue in time. In the mean time, the rest of us need to remember that sometimes it's good for us to step outside of our "comfort zone".

Al Sharpton is out of line and wrong on this one. In fact, just the fact that Sharpton honestly believes this tells me that he has his own bias to work through. He's assuming that only black people can represent black causes. That's not true. And Dean has clearly proven his ability to defend the rights and equality of people different than he is in all he's done for gays. And Dean did that in light of openly admitting that he had the same hang ups about homosexuality that a lot of other people have. Anyone who can set whatever hangups they may have aside to do the right thing is a GREAT representative for minority groups.