Californians - I need a reality check here

[Quahog]

First of all, my prayers and deepest sympathy go out to all of you who have suffered losses due to the fires. My wife and I learned that our maid of honor and her husband lost their house on Monday night. This is truly a terrible time for so many who have lost so much.

I was on the phone last night with my mom in San Diego (she is, thankfully, not in the danger zone at present). Mom is a devoted rethug, but also an atheist who hates the Christian right and thinks Rush is a gasbag. So she didn't get the following story from Rush. What she claims she heard on the news is that there were airplanes loaded with fire retardant chemicals ready to fly on the first day of the fire, and that Gray Davis deliberately grounded them in San Diego county and let the fire burn. Supposedly she has heard that he did this because he wanted revenge on San Diego county, which voted decisively for his removal. Mom's comment was, "This is what your wonderful Democrats do."

Anyone out there have ANY idea where she got this insane "news" story? Could anyone in CA, not matter how much they dislike Davis, think him capable of such an amoral act? I mean, if this could be proven, wouldn't he be facing manslaughter or criminal negligence charges?

[La_Serpiente]

1. That's insane

That's the worst thing that ANYONE could ever do. I will try to find out what went wrong, but it looks like the worst Republican scam I have EVER seen in my life.

If it is true, then shame on Davis. But I really don't like the smell of it.

[Scairp]

16. Totally

If the planes didn't fly it's because it wasn't safe for them to do so. Davis has been on top of this situation from the beginning and these stories about him draggin his feet regarding the firefighting are just parting shots at him, IMO.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

2. that is nuts..i also heard that arnold and repukes did it so that arnold

can now raise taxes....he got his prophetized "natrual disaster"....arnold said, "i will not promise to not raise taxes because who knows what could happen in the future like a natural disaster earthquake or fire"...well folks he cursed us with his own words(wish)!...

toss that one back at your mother for a chew

[spinbaby]

3. What I heard was...

...early on in the fire they had fixed-wing planes ready to go but couldn't use them because of the strong Santa Ana winds.

[screembloodymurder]

26. Now that makes sense

Hindsight is 20/20 maybe Davis was too busy teaching Arnold English.

[BlueCollar]

4. Talk Radio?

That's exactly the kind of statement made by right-wing talk radio hosts.

Since Reagan et al eliminated the fairness doctrine, I've been hearing more and more of these kinds of statements.

The republicans own talk radio and will say anything to advance their agenda.

[StClone]

5. You see

Republican minds are sick.

They think the worst of humanity with no proof other than rage induced hysteria. I don't believe 9-11 was a BushCo product, does she?

In a time of crisis the first reaction is to help each other. For most Californians that is...

[JHB]

6. Maybe not Rush, but...

...you'll have to ask her exactly where she heard this from.
Google-ing on "davis fires grounded" (and picking out the ones about this fire) only mention high, gusty winds and poor visibility grounding the planes.
(e.g. http://www.disasterresponse.net/news/news.php?articleid=2066
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/state/7113803.htm
http://www.kiplinger.com/news/XmlStoryResult.php?storyid=200310281490.3_47ff00700fd984c9)

Sounds like she heard (not necessarily first-hand) some spiteful wingnut projecting Republican tactics onto Democrats -- again.
(it seems the elephant covers its own dirt by loudly flinging it at a convenient donkey)

[radwriter0555]

7. My original comment was actually too nasty to post, so with that in mind

why are you here? What's your point? You know it's not true.

it smells like smoke is being blown up some arses actually.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

9. arnold curse "where there's smoke there's fire"

prophetic?...... :evilgrin:

[Quahog]

14. I am here because I feel like being here

Why do you have a problem with me being here?

If you actually read my original post, you would see that I termed this an "insane" allegation. I assume it came from an "insane" source. I am trying to identify the source.

My mom is not insane, merely republican. She is 81, she does not own a computer and therefore does not research issues on the internet. She also doesn't make shit like this up. She heard it from somewhere.

I posted this because DU has many members from CA who are plugged into the media there. I left CA six years ago, and here in RI I am unable to tap into the media to which people on the left coast are exposed. I work extraordinarily long hours, and am allowed limited internet access at work. At home I have better things to do than google. So I came here for help. It's easier for me to engage in a conversation that might set mom straight if I can at least identify the source of her story.

Sorry if this upsets you.

[nansocal]

8. I sure wish people wouldn't believe ......

every thing they hear and have a knee jerk reaction. in the l.a. times it states that the reason for the delay was due to overlapping responsibilites, local, state and federal and military agencies. It also states due to the weather and heavy smoke it wouldn't be safe. so tell your mom to research first then accuse.

[Fescue4u]

10. sounds like something that Bush would do

I seriously doubt there is any truth to the story and I'll believe so until I hear some evidence.

Nonethless, I drawback when folks automatic assume the Repubs ALWAYS do evil and Democrats Never do evil. The truth is a little greyer (no pun intended!) than I would care for.

If this turns out the be true, I would be suprised, but its within the realm of possibility.

[radwriter0555]

11. Excuse me? "Its within the realm of possibility?" what are you talking

about? Where on earth do you get that from? What has the Twice Elected Governor Davis ever done to make you think he'd do such a thing?

[onebigbadwulf]

12. What?!

It's Davis' tripled car tax that everyone was FREAKING out about which eventaully lead to his recall that is FUNDING the fire fighters RIGHT NOW!!! If a repuke were in office there'd be no money to fight these fires at all!!

[Cat Atomic]

13. Also- there are some areas where the planes aren't

used, due to topographical features like mountains that would make it too dangerous.

[sandnsea]

15. Fire Overhead controls those planes

Not Gray Davis. He simply doesn't have the power to ground planes. He can't order them, he can't send them up, he can't keep them on the ground. That's why we have fire teams with expertise in fighting fires. Did the Governor of Colorado direct the firefighting efforts on the Hayman fire? Has she EVER heard of a Governor directing fire crews or equipment from their office? Does it even make sense that the Governor would be allowed that kind of authority over fighting a fire?

I wish we could hold the media criminally responsible for what they say. They've caused so much damage these last few years.

[Clete]

17. Well, a lot of those fire retardant chemicals do

as much damage as the fires and haven't been used in decades. I haven't seen anything on the news about this. I think it's an urban legend frankly that has been trotted out in previous fires.

[tishaLA]

18. As I recall, the Repukes were pissed

taht Davis gave such "enormous" raises to the firefighters and now they want us to believe that he ALSO told them to hold off on fighting fires? What amazing bullshit the talk radio idiots try to peddle.

[maveric]

19. 60 mph winds, heavy smoke and almost zero visibility was the reason.

Plus many SD county fire crews were allready dispatched to the San Bernadino co. fire, for that one started a couple of days before the SD blazes. Some of those crews included aircraft.

Did she get a Duncan Hunter newsletter lately?

Davis's wife is fron Santee, one of the affected area in SD county. Would he let his wife's hometown,where her family still resides, burn? Its Gray Davis here, not George W. Bu$h.

[LunaC]

20. In addition to the factors already mentioned

Even if planes were able to fly, the fires were burning so hot that any liquid dropped from the air would have evaporated before hitting the ground, rendering it useless.

Folks outside of the area just don't understand that this was a conflagration of epic proportions and there was little that anyone could do to stop it once it got going. As of last night, it was 0% contained as it continues to race East.

[rustydad]

21. NO, no, no

The military transport outfitted for fire retardant can not be used unless all the private contract planes are dispatched. They are controlled by a national system, not by the state. bob

[KFC]

22. LA Times Link Mentions Davis/Delays in Aerial Water Drops

This may be where she heard it:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-sandiegooct29,1,5044079.story?coll=la-home-headlines

SAN DIEGO — As fire continued to destroy large portions of San Diego County, the dispute between some local officials and the administration of Gov. Gray Davis intensified Tuesday over why aerial tankers and water-laden helicopters were not available in the first two days of the blaze.

County supervisors fumed that Davis was too slow in authorizing the use of state "air assets" to douse the fire and too timid in seeking federal assistance. Several had pleaded with the governor's staff last weekend to redirect state resources to San Diego and demand help from the federal government and military.

A spokesman for Davis said the supervisors were distorting what he characterized as the governor's long-standing support of fire prevention and fire suppression in Southern California.

======================================================================

I was under the impression that Davis acted quickly. This is the first time I have heard about this.

[Lindacooks]

23. Where did she hear it?

I'll bet money it was Faux.

Just like my mother, who thinks that the economy is booming because Faux is all she watches.

[bluefire2000]

24. Where did she say she heard it?

That sounds like typical RW roomer-mongering. Could you imagine anyone actually doing that? I can't believe the Repugs are policizing this!!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

25. Duncan Hunter has been spreading this tripe because his house burned down

Myth:
Planes were grounded

FACT:

There were NOT trained pilots to fly those planes which could have resulted in greater disaster. Fixed wing planes flying low in prro visibility amongst hills with wind gusts is a recipe for disaster.

MYTH:

Services were withheld

FACT:

Services were deployed in San Bernardino and Pendleton due to sharing local agencies ALWAYS do during severe fire. California has one of the best first response programs in the nation. There were 9 major fires around the state and ALL resources were deployed.

Myth:

Davis didn't respond soon enough.

FACT:

Davis declared a state of emergency in three counties on Friday and that response was not addressed by Bush until early Monday afternoon. Davis ALSO requested LAST APRIL that a state of emergency be declared in SEVERAL counties due to drought, and fire risks...Bush never responded. All of this can be confirmed via the LA Times.

your mother should be aware that there would have been even FEwer local resources had Arnold already repealed the car tax.

[brook]

27. Where did granny hear it?

try Roger

That was being bandied about on FR early this morning anyway...they said Roger said it. Figures. Darn librul media!