Does Anyone Have the Complete Context of This February 2002 Dean Quote?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

In February 2002, Dean said his big donors are given special access. While Wellstone fought for people on welfare, Dean said some welfare recipients "don't have any self-esteem. If they did, they'd be working" and scaled back Vermont's welfare program, reducing cash benefits and imposing strict time limits on single mothers receiving welfare assistance.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20030526&s=farrell

Thank you.

DTH

[mzmolly]

1. Yes see here.

http://deandefense.org/archives/000017.html

[DoveTurnedHawk]

2. So In Summary, He Did Say It

And he had to apologize for it the next day. And the substance of the author's claim about welfare is correct.

Thank you for the link.

DTH

[sangh0]

3. He did say it, but his supporters on DU

will accuse you of "quoting out of context" is you bring it up. Even Dean admits it was a mistake, but some of his more rabid supporters won't.

[AP]

17. Dean always speaks his mind. It's one of his many charms.

Even if he's of two minds, he speaks them both.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

25. a backhanded compliment

if ever there was... :) (Oh Lord.... please deliver us from Dean)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Hep]

20. You aren't allowed to call apples apples

But it doesn't keep people from outright lying about others, does it. I doubt the DU mods intended for that discrepancy.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

22. I Challenge You, Where's the Lie?

I'm asking questions, the Dean Defense org answers that and confirms my fear: that it was not taken out of context, and that the substance of the charge is true.

Where's the lie?

DTH

[Hep]

24. First

you have to tell me your interpretation of what the substance of the charge was.

And when I spoke of lies I wasn't addressing you, but rather those ABD'ers here who know the truth and dismiss it.

[sangh0]

28. Hep, can't you meet the challenge

You claimed someone lied. Back it up.

[blm]

34. Who is wrong here, DTH for posting it, or Dean for saying it?

I believe that was the point.

[unfrigginreal]

6. LOL

Hey we all have needs. Let them enjoy their "glee".

[DoveTurnedHawk]

8. Shrug. We'll See How Gleeful YOU Are If Al Hammers Him on This

Particularly in the next debate.

Perhaps you should also understand that issues like affirmative action and attitudes toward the poor ACTUALLY MATTER to me, and that I'd be expressing concerns about anyone, even Clark, if he or she expressed similar views.

DTH

[unfrigginreal]

11. They matter to me too...and don't you suggest differently

His remark was not wrong, do you believe that no one fit his description?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

13. "Don't You Suggest Differently"

Actually, I was defending myself against your agreement with the disgraceful implication that the reason I was posting about this was just to be an anti-Dean troll.

I actually wasn't speaking about you at all, although your assumption that I was says something interesting about your state-of-mind, IMO. It's a state-of-mind that fits perfectly with your attempt to defend Dean on the merits ("do you believe that no one fit his description") of his ridiculous statement that he had to apologize for the very next day.

DTH

[DoveTurnedHawk]

9. First Time I Saw It Was Today

It's a shocking comment. It's good that he apologized for it, but it would have been far better if he'd never said it at all because it betrays a shocking lack of empathy and sympathy for the poor.

DTH

[WilliamPitt]

18. Trolls?

If he said it, he said it. Calling people trolls for pointing it out doesn't make it go away.

[CWebster]

29. And Senator Kerry?

"Noted Gov. Weld's absence from the program by saying, 'This guy takes more vacations than the people on welfare.'"

http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-15-96/a10sr062.htm

C'mon, if y'all want to sling mud.

[killbotfactory]

10. More context on the welfare quote

During one of his weekly news conferences in 1993, Dean was being questioned about some of his welfare reform proposals, when he uttered comments that drew sharp criticism from advocates and welfare recipients. In talking about the segment of the welfare population that receives benefits as a permanent means of support, Dean said: "Those recipients don't have any self-esteem. If they did, they'd be working. They'd be trying to get out of a system that is essentially saying to them: 'You don't have anything to contribute. Take our money and then go away and beat the system.'"

Dean apologized the next day, saying, "Those remarks really stepped over the line."

Earlier this week, Dean defended his criticism of Dwyer, saying his comments were not nearly as disparaging as Dwyer's and he never intended to contribute to the negative stereotyping of people on welfare.

"I understand that a person is a person, no matter where they are on economic spectrum," he said. "When I realized my remarks were hurtful, I apologized.

"It came out differently in the paper than what I meant. What I meant was being on welfare can be really, really hard and the transition to work from welfare helps people feel fulfilled in their lives."

http://www.rutlandherald.com/election2000/deancrit.html

Dean sticks his foot in his mouth every once in a while, but he means well.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

12. This Was in 1993?

I guess that's better than February of 2002. Oh, I get it now. The author said the donor access thing was in February of 2002, but then failed to start a new paragraph about the next charge. That's pretty lame. Thanks for the info.

DTH

[killbotfactory]

16. Yeah, 1993...

I'm not sure if the 2002 quote. Part of it seems liek it's from his 1997 inagural address, where he said "Money does buy access, and we’re kidding ourselves and we’re kidding Vermonters if we deny it. So let’s do away with the current system.” in an effort to push campaign finance reform.

I think he also said in an article from 2002 that big donars get more access, although they can't buy his vote.

[Hep]

19. Spinnnnnnnnn

He had to apologize for not being clear. Not for the message.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

21. So He DIDN'T Apologize for Saying That Welfare People Lack Self-Esteem?

Are you saying it's an apology of STYLE, not substance?

That would be completely disgraceful, if true. You're not really doing your candidate any favors, IMO.

DTH

[Hep]

23. He clarified

what he was talking about. I know you're reading this thread, so I'm confident that you saw the clarification. And I'm sure that after reading that nation article we can all write a treatise on deceptive journalism.

[denverbill]

14. It's pretty stupid to bash Dean and use Dean's quote to support Clark.

IMO, of course.

Yeah, Dean is an friggin idiot. Look at what he said about Clark. Good move.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

15. Just Pointing Out Inconsistencies

I'd be glad to see Dean say some nice things about Clark, as Clark has said about Dean. But my quotes are there more to try to help inoculate Clark against the continuing barrage of negative comments that have emanated from the Dean campaign, which will undoubtedly get worse as the season continues.

DTH

[CWebster]

26. Oh look another Dean bashing thread from

a volunteer of the Clark corps.


Who woulda thought?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

30. Is this supposed to pass as real debate?

or is it just parody? It's taking up valuable thread space either way.

[CWebster]

31. And this:

"Kerry noted Gov. Weld's absence from the program by saying, 'This guy takes more vacations than the people on welfare.'"

Now watch this fucking thread sink.

[killbotfactory]

32. The thread won't sink

without a link

http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-96/06-15-96/a10sr062.htm

[dajabr]

33. what was that? Kyrptonite? (nt)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. Thanks. Kerry does something like that

once a decade as opposed to once a week like Dean. Thanks for putting things into perspective.