There is a Big Surprise out there that is too big to make public...

[kentuck]

And it has to do with what is being kept secret by George W Bush and a few of his cronies. It has to do with 9/11 and bin Laden, Saudi Arabia, and terrorism. But it is too big and too hot to handle. It is too unbelievable for people to comprehend. That is why it is being kept a secret. If it were exposed, it would shake the very foundations of this government.

Do you not believe that there is something so smelly and wrong being concealed from the people and from Congress, that it would destroy the credibility of this government if it were known? In your heart, do you not feel that they would fight to death to keep this information from the people? Is there a "Deepthroat" that is willing to destroy this present government? Or do you think this is just a conspiratorial thought?

[HFishbine]

1. conspiratorial thought?

Yes, I think the "thought" part might be a stretch.

[radwriter0555]

33. Dead scientists immediately spring to my mind....

Far too many dead micro-bioligists.

[amlouden]

2. surprise, surprise

i'm sure bush has lots of those

[kentuck]

3. Yo louden...

Good to see we still have some brainwaves still clicking down there in the Bluegrass... :)

[amlouden]

6. yep

luckily there are a few of use left, a dying bread i suppose

[alfredo]

42. The left is alive in the Bluegrass region.

We want to know what Bush is hiding from us.


BTW, Gatewood stands a good chance of becoming our next Att General.

[PurityOfEssence]

50. Now, by "bluegrass", do you mean the classical definition?

By that I mean a circle with a radius of 50 miles, centered in Lexington?

Spent a lot of time there, and the roots run deep...

[kentuck]

54. I had a short chat with Gatewood years ago when he was running for..

Governor... What a character!

[grasswire]

4. we know it to be true

There is a whole sewer of stuff that everyone in Washington knows about. Inslaw-PROMIS is one of the icebergs floating in this sewer. Once in a while we see a bit of it. Father Bush said to journalist Sarah McClendon "If the American people knew what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us."

[blm]

9. BCCI was SO big that Clinton dropped it when he realized its scope.

If it was fully exposed, the world economy would have collapsed. That was his choice, expose BCCI fully or rescue the economy. Tough call. I wish it had been expose BCCI fully. But then, who knows what chaos a collapsed world economy would have wrought. Very tough call.

[jokerman93]

31. Do you mean this BCCI?

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

[gasperc]

60. fuckin aye, the unanswered ?? blow your mind

shit, just reading the exec summary knocks your socks off
<snip>
"Unanswered questions include, but are not limited to, the relationship between BCCI and the Banco Nazionale del Lavoro; the alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI; the extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program; BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada; BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family; BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Sarkenalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers; the use of BCCI by central figures in the alleged "October Surprise," BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London; its involvement with foreign intelligence agencies; the financial dealingst of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States; BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich; the nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of other major U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political figures; the nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI; the sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et Placement in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. "

[el_gato]

5. most in Congress know

but they condone it

[rman]

24. because most in congress got bribed, so it seems

-

[bigwoody]

7. Isn't this the time of year when they harvest the hemp crop in Kentucky?

Sometimes these things just add up.:hippie:

[amlouden]

10. yes

well, as far as i'm concerned, it's always harvest time!

[lovedems]

8. yep

and I think Dick (head) Cheney has his fingerprint on every single wrong doing.

[DuctapeFatwa]

11. It's not being concealed at all, never has been

The voting elite don't care, and to the majority on the bottom it is neither astonishing, unprecedented, nor even remarkable.

[blackcat77]

12. I don't think there's one big secret

But I do think thet, generally, the Bush administration is quite willing to look the other way regarding any potential problem with Saudi Arabia.

I also think that when he stonewalls the 9-11 commission, it lends credibility to the conspriacy theorists...

[Goldmund]

13. One thing is clear:

The administration HAS TO BE AWARE that the stonewalling of the 9/11 investigation comes with a big political cost.

Whatever it is they're fighting to keep secret would, if made public, politically harm them more than stonewalling the investigation is harming them.

I think that they stand to lose a lot of political ground if they continue their 9/11 obstructionism.

And my bet is that they STILL continue insisting on keeping these PDBs and other things secret.

Do the math. They are _obviously_ hiding something, and something significant. Whether it's MIHOP, LIHOP, gross negligence, or a combination of those, it is something they think would politically destroy them.

[judge_smales]

14. Anybody inclined to tell me

What the hell you are all talking about?

[Goldmund]

16. I thought I was pretty clear.

Let me make it simpler.

Say you're Karl Rove. You're faced with two options:

1) Disclose the PDBs and deal with the political cost.
2) Refuse disclosing the PDBs and stonwall the 9/11 investigation, and deal with the political cost.

Which do you pick?

You pick the one where the associated political cost is lower.

It seems the White House has picked option 2).

The political cost associated with this decision is no small potatoes. It is only starting to build up, but as the controversy heats up, on all sides -- congressmembers of both parties, 9/11 families, the general public -- it could be one of Shrub's biggest liabilities. The 9/11 comission, whose ultimate stated purpose is to help prevent another 9/11 from happening, is being obstructed by the administration -- you can't overestimate the political cost of that.

And YET, they've picked option 2).

So doesn't that make you wonder what the political cost of option 1) would be? And why would it be so big?

[judge_smales]

17. OK

So what's a PDB?

Sorry to be so uninformed.

[Goldmund]

20. Presidential Daily Briefing

One of the main points of contention between the investigative comittee and the Adminitration. Shrub is refusing to release the relevant PDBs which would be very instrumental in revealing who knew what when.

[lostnfound]

65. If a PDB discussed staving off an imminent stock market collapse..

that would surely be something they wouldn't want to make public (for fear of creating one).

I am not discounting the possibility that the PDBs may also discuss imminent terrorist attacks, OR what our man binLadin is up to, OR plans for invading Afghanistan..or any number of other incriminating possibilities.

[arcane1]

21. President's Daily Briefing

so far bush is flat-out refusing to release those he received related to 9/11

[spanone]

29. And of course he's doing it for future presidents. What a swell guy.

A shit load of hogwash. Lyin' mo' fo's.

[lostnfound]

64. PDB: Mr. Pres, read this book to the 3d graders..let's practice n/t

[dixiechiken]

19. PDBs??? ( n/t )

[judge_smales]

23. Now I get it.

I'm not ready to jump on the USS Conspiracy just yet, but Pres. Cheney certainly hasn't given any reassurances that she's not getting ready to sail.

[sendero]

36. thank you....

... for making the obvious, but obviously lost on a lot of people, point.

They aren't stonewalling over some 'principle', they have no principles. They are stonewalling because there is a smoking gun, just like in the Energy Task Force docs. And why Congress is putting up with it is beyond me.

[MissMarple]

15. Kentuck, that sounds a lot like Will Pitt's "The Greatest Sedition

Is Silence". :D

I'm only on the fourth chapter, but it is gettting pretty dark.

[cosmosmom]

18. BCCI?

Could someone pleaes tell me what BCCI is and stands for?

[judge_smales]

22. Here ya go-

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

[rman]

26. "BANK OF CRIMINALS AND CONSPIRATORS INTERNATIONAL"

ok not really

[Kool Kitty]

38. But it could be.

:)

[seemslikeadream]

28. The opening of a long-delayed civil suit in a London courtroom

a brief, buried article on a judical nomination; a fluctuation in the commodities market; three mundane, seemingly-unrelated items in the news combine to give a fleeting glimpse of the ugly reality behind the frantic, diversionary facade of the "civilized world."

The Italian bank BNL was one of BCCI's main tentacles. BNL's Atlanta branch was the primary funnel used by the first Bush Administration to send millions of secret dollars to Saddam for arms purchases, including deadly chemicals and other WMD material supplied by the Chilean arms dealer Cardoen and various politically-connected operators in the U.S. like, weapons merchant Matrix Churchill.

As soon as the BNL case broke, President Bush 1 moved to throttle the investigation. He appointed lawyers from both Cardoen and Matrix to top Justice Department posts-- where the supervised the officals investigating ther old companies.

Which brings us to the judical appointment. One of the White House aids who unlawfully intervened in the BNL prosecution was Jay S. ByBee. George W. Bush placed his name on the federal appeals court-- a lifetime sinecure of perks and power. ByBee was confirmed on March 13,2003.

And the commodities connection? Bush Jr, relentless hissy-fit for war on Iraq has of course goosed the price of gold enormously-- and that's set Bush Family coffers a clinking. How so? In the waning days of his presidency, Bush Sr. invoked an obscure 1872 statue to give Canadian firm Barrick Corporation, the right to mine $10 billion in gold from U.S. public lands for $10,000. Bush then joined Barrick as a highly-paid "international consultant," brokering deals with various dictators of his close acquaintance. Barrick reciprocated with big bucks for Junior's presidental run.

And the man that started Barrick Gold Mining -- Khashoggi!

[blm]

46. GREAT POST.

Way to brief those new to this story.

[maggrwaggr]

25. the story that smells the fishiest is the "official" one

I have never before in my life been into "conspiracy theories" but the facts of this point to something 100% different than what we've been told.

I, for one, really want to find out the truth.

And I hope we do, I hope it doesn't turn into another JFK assassination mystery.

I have a feeling it's vastly different than anything we actually suspect. I think the truth will come out of left field (if it comes out).

I think a lot of what we take for granted as the official story may not even exist.

[BigBigBigBear]

27. This is what I believe

It's Rove.

There probably is an acutely malodorous truth being covered up here, but it's NOT the reason they're stonewalling.

They'll hold firm, hold firm and hold firm...then, finally, after enough pressure, release some mildly embarrassing tidbit. Some fudged advance-warning Condi screwup or something. The press will report it (Yellowcake redux...), they'll blame it on an aide and move forward.

Deflates the pressure and hides the real beast - people will stop asking. (Everyone except the 'conspiracy nuts', of course.)

Lookit - they HAD to stonewall. They HAD to create the impression they were hiding something, so that when they were inevitably accused of hiding something, they could release something fairly innocuous and deflate the whole issue, timed precisely to the election cycle. They know they have visciously partisan enemies, who'd accuse them of covering up, no matter what. They comply, fess up to something gently venal, and the whole issue vaporizes.

Do you really, really believe that some Congressional or independent Committee will force something out in the open that will shake the government to its foundations? I don't.

[Jackpine Radical]

30. Kentuck, you're hopelessly paranoid.

Of course, nobody but one of us hopeless paranoids has a prayer of understanding the Bushies.

[kentuck]

32. And judging from the above responses, I am not alone....

But I sense there is something that is even worse than anything we have imagined or discussed here on DU. It is traitorous. It is incompetence. It is criminal. America cannot handle this truth that is being kept secret by George W Bush and his cohorts...

[radwriter0555]

35. Kentuck, Americans don't want to know the truth. Seriously... they don't.

I didn't want to know the truth; did you want to know what you KNOW now about the nefarious bush regime?

We don't desire this information. We don't want all that we knew, once upon a time, that America was good, kind, benevolent... that our government really was us... that all kids have a home, that every person has a meal.. we don't want this NOT to be true.

We don't WANT to know our 'leaders' are actually common criminals. WE want to believe our votes count. We want to believe our 'elected' leaders don't lie.

We don't want to know that these men who serve us are in fact serving ONLY themselves and are circling like vultures over our wallets, over the corpses of our soldiers in iraq, over the bodies of the dead children in afghanistan, all in the hopes of making a dollar off their demise.

But WE, you and me, we do know it. It sets us apart from the rest. Sometimes I'd rather be in someone else's head, than know the truth about these evil evil men who rule the world.

I didn't choose to know this stuff. All I ever did was want to know who George Bush was, in August of 2000. I wanted to know who to vote for on November 4, 2000, and I learned the truth about these evil, horrible, destructive men... and it changed my life forever.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

39. I'm afraid you're right

People have a natural tendency to believe that their country can do no wrong. Hence the fuss that arises when a school curriculum teaches the truth about slavery or about the genocidal compaign against the Native Americans.

There are people in Japan who believe that the whole world ganged up on poor little Japan for no reason in the 1940s. They claim that the well-documented reports of atrocities in China are Communist propaganda, even though they predate the current government.

The alternative is believing that their country was in the hands of criminals for 14 years and that the criminals were able to persuade the majority of Japanese to go along with them, or at least not to resist.

[kentuck]

41. I'm not there yet, radwriter....

I want to know the truth. Some people may be happy living in ignorance but not I. I want to know because I care. I have not and will not surrender. When crimes have been committed , it's about justice. Once we surrender the search for the truth, we have lost all hope. I am not there yet.

[fla nocount]

47. Truth has a colonic effect. It's good for you.

It rips you up for a while and you might wish you were dead, but having lived through it myself, I recommend it for everyone. Shame on you radwriter for not wanting to share the light. (1/2joke)

[radwriter0555]

51. I've shared everything I know... to much ridicule, derision, criticism

and actual hate. But I do keep on persevering. What else can I do?

It's my duty as a real American to tell my fellow Americans the truth about the thugs, liars, cheats, scumbags and thieves who've taken hostage the White House.

On a daily basis, I get to say, more and more often, "I told you so...", and that's all I need to fuel my passion and love for the real things that are right with this great country.

These people can call me all the names in the world, but eventually the ones with half a brain call me right.

:)

[blm]

55. *applauding wildly*

Reading your posts this past year, I have no doubt you've made some headway in that effort.

[aldian159]

34. Where are they?

Where are the modern day Woodward and Bernstein?

[plurality]

37. they're dead and buried as soon as they even think about leaking this

do you honestly believe that people with this much power would ever let something like this get fully exposed?

[newyawker99]

48. Hi aldian159!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[fla nocount]

40. You mean, Oswald wasn't just a really good shot? n/t

*

[Character Assassin]

43. Well then, what is it?

Since its existence has now been made public by your post, how about some details of its nature?

[kentuck]

49. It's in your mind....

It's in a lot of the public's mind...but they don't know what it is. They know that this Administration is secretive only because they have something to hide, not because of any national security or executive privilege. It is beyond coincidence, they tell themselves. But they don't want to appear to be conspiracists, so they minimize their conpiratorial thoughts into something more minimal, such as Bush Family is historically close to the bin Laden family. They only want the Big Oil in Iraq. Bush cheated to get into the WH....but, in their hearts, they fear it is much worse. It is almost unthinkable what they perceive is possible. They must win the next election. They absolutely must win the next election. Otherwise, the possibility is there that the "truth" may seep our from under the shroud of secrecy that has enveloped this White House and this nation. It is inconceivable therefore it is unexplainable. :)

[Character Assassin]

59. It's starting to sound like the secret that doesn't exist

Because it's most definitely not in my mind.

[kentuck]

61. Such is the nature of conspiracies.....

Does it exist or doesn't it? George Bush is hiding a few secrets but they are small and meaningless or they are so huge they cannot be made public? It is all in some of our minds. However, that does not mean it exists. Neither does it mean it does not exist. People are instinctual. Perhaps it's just a "conspiratorial thought", as I stated in the initial post?

[ramblin_dave]

44. Who has copies of the Daily Briefings?

What if the White House released a bogus version of the 8-6-2001 Daily Briefing, who would know and would they be able or willing to expose the hoax?

[KG]

45. do anyone still actually think some guys with box cutters

and few hours in a simulator took over and the navigated hundreds of miles to make direct hits on those relatively small targets on the first pass?

yeah, right. :eyes:

[radwriter0555]

52. **SNARF**

to cop a phrase.

Right. Box cutters.

And the thugs in the white house dint know nuttin.

[KoKo]

63. I know KG, when you say it like that, it does seem pretty obvious,

something's wrong with that scenario........:-(

[Bread and Circus]

53. I believe Bush let 9/11 happen....

and I suspect Mike Moore thinks the same.

Call me a tin foil hat, but I believe it.

[janekat]

56. Hell yeah.... There's several of those surprises being concealed

n/t

[Starpass]

57. Yo, Mr. Tenant...how's about you get a little revenge, remove

a scumbag president, and be a good American. You have the ball in your court and it could turn into an A-bomb that flushes the D.C. sewers with one big bang. If there is ever going to be any possibility of getting this WASP-Mafia, Tenant is the one who could leak all over the place. The Bush family and the Saudi Royal family have been in bed together for years. When the prince came over here after 9/11 he rode around Texas in a train with Papa. Papa has dealt heavily with the bin Laden family. The royals are afraid of losing their monarchy and if the people take over, the US of A is going to lose it's nice, black oil. There is dirt a mile deep around these scum and I'm sure the "incompetent" CIA knows where the shovels are.

[Jose Diablo]

62. Cheney has to go before Bush*

Else we get worse

[NashVegas]

58. Yes .. But it Doesn't Have to Be Thought of as "Shadowy"

Instead of looking at the Bush & Bin-Ladens connection as a business or "spook" tie, think of it in the context you would of ruling families.

They all know each other and know who's doing what.

If anyone was in a position to say to the Bin Ladens "would you mind putting your son/nephew/brother on a leash?" it is the Bush family.

Lately I've begun to wonder if one of the reasons the press doesn't make much of an issue of that connection, it's because they themselves are uncomfortable thinking too much about ruling families and following the logical conclusions, that go against everything our Constitution stands for.

Greg Palast tells us that Osama shouldn't be thought of as a holy terrorist as much as the "John Gotti" of the mideast. He described a situation where the Saudis were paying him off like you would a protection racket. "Pay me or I'll blow you up."

It would have been in ALL of their best interests - the Bush's, the bin Laden's and everyone else in SA - to pick him off. And they could have had that been their desire.

Best case scenario - too much damn inbreeding leads to incompetence.
Worst case scenario - they thought they could work with him.

[morningglory]

66. The Atl News guy poster might have some input. n/t

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. 16 dead microbiologists and a plane did NOT hit the Pentagon!

if the fact that it was an inside job at the Pentagon got out it would destroy our country...the fact that they could get into our most ..ahem..secure building ...the headquarters to our entire national security and military and plant an explosive device would be a national embaressment....folks it was NOT a plane that hit the Pentagon!

flame away

[Fish Eye]

69. No flames but...

what in the world are you talking about???

[ElsewheresDaughter]

70. for starters...

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=594709

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htmhttp://

The two photographs in question 7 were taken just after the attack by U.S. Marine Corps photo by Cpl. Jason Ingersoll . They show the precise spot on the outer ring where the Boeing struck. Where is the hole the plane went in?...this is a photo of the EXACT section where it supposedly entered the Pentagon...before the facade colapsed.

Can you find the aircraft's point of impact?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

71. There are sixteen dead microbiologists, but the debris inside and...

...outside the Pentagon contained thousands of pieces belonging to Flight 77.

Please...do a little research on your own before posting nonsense like that.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

72. i have done my research and if you can source me just 1 eye witness

account of the plane hitting the Pentagon or show me photos of pieces of plane wreckage.....i would love to read/see it?

[Ganja Ninja]

68. Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

It's doubtful Bush was involved in 9/11 outside of his incompetence in not stopping it.

But ask yourself what if 9/11 had never happened? What would the BFEE/PNAC have used for an excuse to start a war with Iraq? The answer is Anthrax. All it would have taken is a few more letters and a few thousand dead and Bush would have had his support for going to war. This is the crime that we should be suspicious of not 9/11.

[rman]

73. PNAC: "we need another Perl Harbour"

PNAC-er Rumsfeld: "(9-11) is a blessing in disguise"

Not stopping it goes way beyond incompetence.

Stopping the FBI from investigating financial ties between certain members of the Bin Laden family (not Osama) BFEE and terrorists, is not incompetence. It was a deliberate action, obstruction of justice.

The vice president leaning heavily on the shoulder of the CIA urging them to find anything that might incriminate Saddam is not incompetence. It is unprecedented for the government to tell an intelligence agency how to do their job ("if you don't know what you'r looking for then you'll never find it"). Makes you wonder how the CIA ever managed to operate without a guy like Cheney coaching them.