Should Zell Miller be ejected from the Senate Democratic Caucus?

[goobergunch]

Poll question: Should Zell Miller be ejected from the Senate Democratic Caucus?

In light of his endorsement of the Chimp in 2004.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=612807&mesg_id=612807

[Langis]

1. Sorry that no was me

I meant to hit Yes. :argh:

[RobertSeattle]

10. butterfingers

[goobergunch]

13. Got it. Now who the hell are the other four?

Lurking freepers? :grr:

[TSIAS]

2. Yes

I'm usually not one to wish conservative Democrats out of the party. However, Miller has gone too far. I wonder if he'd even vote for Democratic Leadership if he were still in the Senate in '04.

Miller is truly in a class by himself when it comes to being a DINO.

[jsw_81]

50. Agreed

I understand that southern Democrats need to be moderate, and in some cases conservative, but Zell has gone too far this time. He needs to be ejected from our caucus ASAP.

[Cha]

3. zell should be "ejected" from the Democratic Party

Period! I don't want him~! he's a blind traitor.

[CosmicVortex10]

55. I dont like it either, but its not time to be exclusive.

We cant expect total purity. Zell carrys our torch in MANY areas. I dont know of any particular canidate I can say I agree with in all areas.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

63. "Total purity"???

Please list the "many" areas Zell carries our torch.

Last time I checked he votes primarily with the GOP.

[Terran]

65. Miller has a DUTY to support his party

If he's not going to do that he should just become a fucking republican. He's not a regular citizen, he's a US Senator and therefore an important member of the Democratic Party; he has committed nothing less than party treason by openly endorsing the republican, before the Dems even have a candidiate chosen. You can't even call that "conscience"!

[Tinoire]

69. OUR torch?

Zell Miller hasn't carried the same torch I have for at least 10 years!

I am simply ecstatic, simply relieved that he has made his true colors clear for ALL to see and beyond the shadow of a doubt!

While you're still here, would you be kind enough to tell me what other Democrats you think are carrying "our" torch? I'd like to compare my notes to yours.

[uhhuh]

73. Not ejected from the party

I think he should be removed as a Democratic representative on commitees and basically isolated from the other Dems if and when they talk strategy about anything.

Supporting the opposition shows he cannot be trusted to represent to represent Dems in commitee, and it would be stupid to allow him into strategy sessions. He has outright voted for the opposition, and has now declared allegience to the opposition candidate.
However, the people of Georgia voted for him as a Dem, and throwing him out of the party does not seem warranted. I think a better tactic is to completely politically isolate him for the remainder of the term, and if he doesn't jump ship and does come out in support of the chimp, point to his voting record and his RW attitude, and attack him on it, saying that he was a Repuke anyway. That way, even if his support of the chimp gets press, it can be countered by showing that he was always a Republican anyway.
If isolating him and neutering him politically gets him to jump to the Repukes, then his endorsement won't mean shit.

[soleft]

4. Put a Hell in front of that Yes

:mad:

[PROGRESSIVE1]

5. Of course he should be!!! He is a Confederate Left Over!!!!!!!

....a Dick Russell wannabe!!!!!! A real Old-Southerner!!!!!


He's not Bill Clinton and Dixieboy Miller will never be as as great as Clinton!!!


Yes, he should be invited to leave the caucus! John Breaux who is no left/liberal has never done this to us!!!! We should email Mr. Miller and ask him to leave!

[htuttle]

6. You'd get banned from DU for saying what he said

Not sure that means anything at all, other than to point out the egregious nature of it.

Here's the quote (from the other linked thread):

SENATOR ZELL MILLER OF GEORGIA, the nation's most prominent conservative Democrat, said today he will endorse President Bush for re-election in 2004 and campaign for him if Bush wishes him to. Miller said Bush is "the right man at the right time" to govern the country.

The next five years "will determine the kind of world my children and grandchildren will live in," Miller said in an interview. And he wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will vote for President Bush in 2004."

[Ficus]

11. Sick

and twisted.

And he wouldn't "trust" any of the nine Democratic presidential candidates with governing during "that crucial period," he said. "This Democrat will vote for President Bush in 2004."

He wouldn't trust even his Senate colleagues? For everyone who bashes on greens - I'd rather have a (G) or an (I) like Jeffords in our caucus than republicans like Miller who call themselves Dems.

:dem: :dem:

[booksenkatz]

27. Gee whiz

He must hate his children and grandchildren. How sad.

[IrateCitizen]

7. We should welcome back Trafficant if we're going to keep Zell...

[goobergunch]

8. Obviously YES

He needs a swift :kick: in the pants over to the other side of the aisle.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

9. I'd rather lose another seat

...than to keep it with this traitor. It's better to work from more of a deficit with a good, solid, dependable number of Senators who will vote their conscience when they need to, but rebuff George Bush at every turn.

Zell Miller should go to the Republicans and make it official. He'll be happier with his own kind, and he can collect his 30 pieces of silver.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

12. Miller is our Judis!

.

[Richardo]

14. I'd rather have the seat...he's an idiot not to switch on his own accord

Meanwhile, the Dems are that much closer to majority status.

[liberalhistorian]

16. He and Holy Joe

should quit fucking around and switch parties and make it formal, they're already repukes anyway. Although not even Holy Joe would pull the shit Miller's pulling. What the hell could he be smoking, anyway? Or do you think maybe the Corleones of Maine, aka the Bushies, are somehow blackmailing him into this?

[jiacinto]

17. Lieberman is nowhere like Miller

Your post ignores the facts on Lieberman. I agree about Miller, but not Lieberman.

[tom_paine]

18. Paying him off. The Mafia pays off useful idiots.

Check his portfolio for recently added shares of Carlyle.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

24. HOLD ON!!!!! Lieberman is not a right wing nutcake on...

domestic issues! He opposed Bush's tax cuts, he supports strong labor standards and is a social moderate! He has supported this part much more than Dixieboy Miller ever has!!! Mr. Lieberman is part of our party!

[goobergunch]

32. I concur. (n/t)

[NewJerseyDem]

40. I'm getting a little angry here

I HATE when people attack Lieberman so much for being like Zell Miller. He isn't like Zell Miller. Maybe you should go onto the senate's website and look at Lieberman's records. Look how he has voted with the democrats on tax cuts, ANWR, partial-birth abortion, and other issues and look at who Lieberman will be endorsing in 2004, and then look at how Miller voted. Then, maybe people like yourself who no absolutly nothing about the senate and have probably no idea how the senators voted would realize that Lieberman isn't even close to Miller.

Lieberman is a middle of the road democrat who is hawkish on foreign policy and fairly moderate on cultural issues unlike Miller who is conservative on every single major issue. Maybe you should do a little research before you open your mouth and start attacking people!!!! Maybe you should realize that John Breaux, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, Blanche Lincoln and even Robert Byrd are all more conservative than Joe Lieberman is!!!

[RaulGroom]

42. Hear, Hear

Lieberman is sucky, but he ain't THAT sucky. Nobody in the Democratic field deserves to be compared to Zell Miller.

And just so he isn't getting support ONLY from conservative quasi-democrats, I wouldn't kick him out either. So he said he likes Bush. What else is new? He's got a right to his opinion, even if his opinion is crap.

[Khephra]

45. I Dislike Joe with a passion that burns hotter than a 1000 suns

But he's no way even close to being in Zell's league.

Trick or treat...it must be Halloween. I'm actually defending Lieberman.

[w4rma]

70. Sen. Lieberman is a strong Democrat, IMHO.

Lieberman Proposes Raising Taxes on Rich
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Published: October 12, 2003
Filed at 10:51 p.m. ET

WASHINGTON (AP) -- In a break from the Democratic field, presidential candidate Joe Lieberman is promising to ensure that upper-income Americans pay more in taxes than they did before President Bush's record-breaking tax cuts.

Lieberman's proposal, due to be unveiled as part of a weeklong critique of Bush's policies, would at the same time reduce taxes for middle-class Americans, according to a senior campaign official.
…
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Lieberman-Taxes.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=163504

[GainesT1958]

15. It strikes me that he's practically BEGGING Tom Daschle to do it anyway...

By this latest act of treachery, so why not give Zell his wish, and catapault him over to the enemy? They deserve him; he's untrustworthy, just like the moron he so heartily endorsed for next year. :mad:

And let's work harder than ever to get Lincoln Chafee and Olympia Snowe to come over where their hearts really reside...to OUR side!:D

COME BACK, Max--pullllease! :kick:

B-)

[piece sine]

21. very shrewd; very, very shrewd!

Once in while here somebody thinks outside the box. Both Chaffee and Snowe are closer than people think to crossing-over. They should be encouraged, cajoled and INVITED! People want to be wanted....Zell's history. Who'd vote for him now?!

[gottaB]

74. Snowe and Chaffee for Miller

Would we have to toss in Bayh?

That upside is that the DLC would be eviscerated.

[jiacinto]

19. No

He voted for our leadership. As he is not running for re-election this issue is irrelevant.

[southpaw]

23. Huh?

Miller is NOT running for re-election?

Thank you Jesus!!!

[ulysses]

25. you're kidding.

He's endorsing Bush.

Once more with feeling.

He's endorsing Bush.

"He voted for our leadership." Zippity doo dah.

He's endorsing Bush.

[jiacinto]

31. He's retiring

It's not going be an issue after next year anyway.

But I feel the same outrage people have toward him.

[ulysses]

33. not an issue? wrong.

Zell Miller is the de facto head of the state party, or at least will be until he officially switches parties. When the phrase "Georgia Democrat" is mentioned, people think of Miller. After he retires, you'll get the goddamned Sage of North Georgia pontificating from Young Harris. If we're going to revive any kind of fighting spirit in the Democratic Party, the first move has to be to toss this unspeakable fucker out on his ass.

[jiacinto]

35. I don't think he is going to leave like that

As he is retiring he won't be in office after next year.

What saddens me is that that seat is probably gone.

[ulysses]

36. yes, Carlos, I know he won't be in office after next year.

:freak:

Think he won't get media time every time he passes gas? Think he won't be pulling strings and making calls from glorious retirement? Think he won't be making speeches as a Democrat calling for greater support for the GOP?

[goobergunch]

30. What about his committee assignments? (n/t)

[NewJerseyDem]

37. I may have to disagree

I generally don't like all the bashing of moderates but I'm wondering if he is really damaging the party. When he endorses Bush he is going to make people think that moderate democrats have turned on the party. Most won't realize that Miller votes 100% with the republicans. However, at the same time a worry if southerners will see an expulsion as an attack on southern moderates. So, I'm kind of divided on this issue.

Ralph Hall endorsed Bush in 2000 and he wasn't expelled so I think that shows that an expulsion is extremely unlikely.

[David__77]

44. As someone on the left, I believe I agree.

We mustn't be too factional here. In fact, booting Miller undercuts efforts to win over centrist Republicans. We must be more inclusive than the Republicans. That doesn't mean surrendering leadership of the party to these people, it means welcoming their support. That said, he should be isolated politically in terms of influence in his home state.

[Brucey]

20. He's not a Democrat.

[BurtWorm]

22. I could accept his endorsing Nader

I could accept his endorsing McCain. I can't accept his endorsing Bush. Fuck him! As Barbara Bush might say, "I'm through with you, Zell!"

[terrisel]

26. Sounds as though he got a desperate call from Karl Rove

Why would any Senator make such an endorsement now? I don't think Bush is wildly popular in Georgia right now. it seems odd.

I think the story here is: What does the white House gang have on Miller and/or what does he think they can do for him ?

[mlawson]

46. You might be onto something here.

That's right, why NOW???? Like HIS endorsement is going to mean shit in GA anyway???

GA breaks down like most other states: Dems vote for Dems, MOST of the time, and repukes vote for repukes. (There are more repukes, because there are more Baptists, IMO). And then the 20% or so apolitical voters in the middle vote for whom they LIKE best. But how many are going to LIKE bush more, because Zell says he does???

[jfxgillis]

28. No.

A member of a Senate Caucus has one and only one absolute obligation, and that is to vote for the Caucus organizing resolution, usually the second order of business at the beginning of every Congress.

We aren't Stalinists.

Frankly, on a personal level I'm surprised at Miller if only because Bush stabbed him in the back by campaigning against Cleland last time, but that's his choice.

Besides, Miller is ZERO INFLUENCE anyway, giving up his Senate seat. Who cares what some ex-Senator thinks?

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Throw his ass out

of the party. F**king traitor!

[Ouabache]

39. I second that

Throw his ass out of the caucus now !

How many caucus meetings will he sit in between this endorsement of whistleass* and the election, where he will convey the sentiments of the caucus to the opposition party ? We can't be sure he won't.

He should be asked to leave by Daschle, and then a vote taken if he doesn't.

And they should be awfully careful what they discuss when he is present until he is gone from those meetings.

What is even more galling about this is that he makes the endorsement before the Democrats have even selected a Nominee. He is showing ultimate contempt for the party.

[RogueTrooper]

34. Traitor

Traitorous bastard.

[Rowdyboy]

38. I have defended this man since the day he entered the senate....

For that I humbly apologise to all of you people I may challenged.

Throw his sorry confederate ass out of the Senate Democrat caucus and force him to vacate his committee seats.

[mitchum]

41. and he should also be beaten within an inch of his life...

I really detest the sorry fucker

[David__77]

43. Probably not.

Isn't Jeffords caucusing with the Democrats. I think that Miller should be considered in the same category with Jeffords to some extent, though Jeffords is very much better politically. We must remain open to "independents." I think that is what Miller is. It is shameful that he supports Bush, but I think it means the Georgia party better come up with better leadership. Roy Barnes: why on earth did you appoint him in the first place?

[Rowdyboy]

47. I guarantee you Jeffords won't endorse Bush

That makes him far superior to Zell in my opinion.

[goobergunch]

48. He's not listed as an independent

He's listed as a Dem. :puke:

[OKNancy]

49. He better not try to lead the Georgia delegation

at the National Convention. He shouldn't be allowed to set foot in Boston.... Will he still be a super-delegate?

[goobergunch]

53. Sadly, yes

unless we hurl him out of the party first. See my post below.

[IndianaGreen]

67. Enough reason to throw his ass out!

It would be ludicrous having Miller as the head of the Georgia delegation while heading the Democrats for Bush. How would that look to the TV audience?

[kodi]

51. isnt miller designated as a "super delegate" at the dem convention?

if so, he needs to be ejected from the democratic party itself.

[goobergunch]

52. Yes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=190122#190139

[mlawson]

57. Hell, they will probably let him SPEAK there!

Imagine, his being introduced as 'a GREAT Democrat'. (Applause)

No, I am not joking; this is how the real world works, oddly enough.

[juajen]

54. You bet. What an asshole!

Enough said.

[GiovanniC]

56. Think Of It This Way

I fully agree that Zell is an unbelievable asshole and he makes my blood boil with his "endorsement" of Bush. He does deserve to be kicked out of the caucus, and I'd say the party, too.

But think of it like this. I live in Michigan. My state's senators are Debbie Stabenow and Carl Levin, both Dems. The fact that I know even their names puts me in a TINY minority in this state's population. Most people in this state (and every other state) have no idea who is representing them, which is a sad indictment of our culture. Out of that tiny percentage of people who could even NAME their senators, an even TINIER percentage of people actually know what the hell their senators are saying or doing at any particular moment.

Most of Zell's constituents probably are completely oblivious to his statements. Out of those who are aware, few will give a rat's ass.

You know who will care about Zell's statements, though? Republicans. I'll bet FOX will air the everlasting piss out of this little soundbite. But let me tell ya, most FOX News viewers are lost causes anyway.

[mlawson]

59. I agree. His endorsement won't mean crap.

And your estimation of the knowledge of *most* voters is on the mark, I think. What is pissing most of us off, I believe, is the principle of the thing, with zell: it is complete treachery, treason, whatever one wants to call it.

But I think the Dems who called on Gore to concede just after the 2000 election are far worse.

[fujiyama]

66. You're right...

I had the same feeling about the post '00 election period, during the recount. I remember being irate when Toricelli basically urged Gore to quit (fortunately that corrupt bastard is out of the senate). I also remember Traficant praising Bush. Well we all know where he is now!

I'm all for the big tent. I even defend Lieberman on occassion, because his voting record is usually centrist, and in some cases left of center.

Zell Miller, though, is in a league of his own. I didn't especially like him when I read in a great newsweek article when Jeffords left about his horrible voting record (and about how he voted less than 20% of the time with other democrats). That was pre-9/11, so since then I'm guessing he's been voting even less with democrats.

Hell, I also remember reading his Op-Ed (I think it was in the NYT) sometime during the summer of '01 with some interest as he give his opinion on why democrats did poorly in southern states. It was half way rational, and I thought maybe he can help with outreach in southern states. Also, I had heard about his stance on the Confederate Flag in Ga, and had some admiration for him. Even within the last few weeks, I still thought it's better to have a (D) next to his name and keep him caucused with dems because the senate was so close. I figured "well he's conservative but he campaigned for Max Clekand".

Boy was I wrong!

It's one thing to have a hawkish FP or vote with the GOP on various issues because you're from a conservative state, but to be a SITTING MEMBER in the US SENATE and endorse the opposing party's leader over any one of the 9 democrats in the field now, is just disgusting.

Zell should leave now. He wouldn't be of any use to us anyways. I also don't think we'll win that state in '04 anyways (the last time a dem won was Clinton in '92, and that too it was because of Perot, who had a huge turnout)

So goodbye Zell and good riddance. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out! (Better yet, us asses better kick that elephant in ass's clothing out!)

[dusty64]

58. I'm not surprised at all,

he has been a piece of shit for quite awhile. I can count on my hands any useful things he has done, good riddance.

[mlawson]

60. Good riddance? He's not going anywhere!

Do you think that Daschle will discipline him?? Cause him to leave the Dem party???

Believe me, NOTHING will happen. Hide and watch....

[KamaAina]

61. Give him the boot!

Remember when J.C. Watts either quit or got booted from the CBC? The other members were (rightly) worried that Watts would run straight to Rove's office after every CBC meeting.

This is worse. The CBC is not (or wasn't supposed to be) partisan. And Miller (R) has not only endorsed Bush* (unspeakable in and of itself), he has indicated that he would campaign for Bush*! That makes him part of the Bush*/Cheney campaign!

Or is he hoping it'll be the Bush*/Miller campaign... :tinfoilhat:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

62. effective immediatly!!!...may her burn in hell with george !!!

[goobergunch]

64. I wanted to put "immediately" in the subject line

but it was too long....:mad:

[wrkclskid]

68. What is the proceudre for kicking one out of ur caucus?

I bet it's difficult, can u even do it considering Georgia voters sent him to DC knowing he was a Dem?

But I don't think it's a good idea. It would simply give the issue attention in the national media. Millions of stories would be everywhere talking about how zell "put aside partisanship and voted his conscience" and about how the Dems "hae elft him and millions of other Americans behind." H ewould become a martry of sorts. So just let him go be his cranky self for the next year, he is essentially a lame-duck anywyas. I almost never see him talk on the floor. Kicking it out seems like it would be counter-productive.

[Doomsayer13]

71. Zell is an ass

what a traitor. I used to defend him too but he's gone from moderate to DINO in the absolute truest sense. Now he doesn't even try to vote with his Democratic collegues. I respect indpendent blue dogs like Breaux much more than complete turncoats like Miller. The only thing Democratic about him is the D next to his name, which is far too good for him.

[frank frankly]

72. kick his ass out before he retires

fight Democrats, goddamnit!!!

[Resistance Is Futile]

75. Out the door post haste

Making overtures of bipartisanship to the opposition--a la Likudman--is one thing but actively campaigning for the enemy is quite another. Miller is a traitor to the party and should be ejected immediately.

[Jack Rabbit]

76. Absolutely yes

If he runs with the dogs, he shall be treated like a dog.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. Now I've lost ALL respect for Zell Miller...

Before I had only respect for him because he was a member of the caucus and helped us hang onto the senate majority in the last congress. On a side note I find it ironic that last night he was portrayed by a total ass-hole on the West Wing the same night that he decided to endorse Bush.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.