I just talked to a Republican for Dean

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

Most long time people on DU know that I have little, if anything, good to say about Dean. But today I met an honest to God Republican for Dean.

She is about 50 years old, a registered Republican, and I believe voted for Bush, although I couldn't swear to that. She did not like Clark, had hardly heard of Kucinich, said Edwards was good on TV. She had watched the last Democratic debates, and the previous two. She was clear that she didn't hate Bush and did not say anything negative about the war in Iraq, but when I asked her who she thought the best Democrat was, she said Dean. She had few good to say about Bush, but would not openly criticize him, and gave him faint praise at best. I did not ask her if the general election was Bush vs. Dean who she would vote for, but I got a clear impression that it would be Dean.

My point is that a I met a real live Republican for Dean, who had more good things to say about Dean than about Bush, and liked Dean for all the typical reasons that Dean supporters do - he was outspoken about his opinion, he is a good politician, he is a moderate. One of the things that struck me was that she even said that she didn't like a lot of Dean's official platform, but she liked the way Dean talked about what he believed in. Can't say I'm into that sort of thing myself, but to each their own.

She was quite knowledgeable about the mainstream candidates and the issues and current events, but when I explained to her the way Dean has raised record amounts of money from record amounts of voters, and pretty much ran the kind of campaign Democrats have been promising, but never delivered, she seemed rather surprised. She knows a lot more about the internet than any of you, but I doubt she wastes her time on online forums like DU or any others :)

Kerry and Dean are my least favorite candidates, but it's a pleasant surprise when I meet so many people, Democrats and Republicans, who realize that the future of America lies with our Democratic candidate, and would seem to prefer most anyone to Bush.

(There - I did it, a whole post with nothing but good things to say about Dean. I should get a cookie.)

Edited for clarity and hopefully spelling.

[pruner]

1. here ya go

[hedda_foil]

2. Here's a whole bag of cookies!

Thanks for the post. It was great! Have some cookies.

[w13rd0]

3. Ya get a cookie from me...

...I've met supporters for all of the candidates, including Bush, who are pleasant, likeable folk.

[dolstein]

4. I hate to point out the obvious but

since you never actually ASKED whether this person would vote for Dean over Bush in the general election, you really can't say she's a "Republican for Dean." Hell, I had plenty of good things to say about John McCain in 2000, but I wasn't about to vote for him over Gore. Did that make me a "Democrat for McCain"?

And since you didn't ask her whether she voted for Bush in 2000, you don't even have anecdotal evidence that Dean is gaining converts from the other partisan camp.

[evworldeditor]

7. Ouch!

Reality bites... and I am not talking cookies and milk, here. Good point, Dolstein. Next time, he needs to ask her who she'll vote for in 12 months time. Consider it a pre-exit poll, sort of thing.

[w4rma]

20. Republican campaigner for 2 Bushes backs Dean

by ANNE SAUNDERS The Associated Press

CONCORD – Democrat How-ard Dean’s stance against the war in Iraq has brought him supporters from across party lines in New Hampshire.

Hilary Cleveland of New London, wife of the late congressman James Cleveland, and a prominent campaigner for both President Bushes, is helping organize a Republicans-for-Dean movement.

Dean announced the names of 40 Republicans who will serve on a steering committee. Cleveland says she’s been a lifelong Republican, but will switch her registration to independent so she can vote for Dean in the presidential primary.

Cleveland was the New London co-chair for George W. Bush’s 2000 campaign and was the state finance chair Bush’s father in 1980.

“I have been disappointed in the Bush Administration’s policies in Iraq, and former Governor Dean has best articulated why we should not have gone to war in Iraq. I like his emphasis on the importance of internationalism and his fiscal program,” Cleveland said.
…
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=354&ArticleID=89839
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=48320

[Hep]

28. don't know exactly what you're looking for

but here:

http://atlblogs.com/republicansfordean/

[salin]

5. While I am not a cookie enabler...

I am into threads in which folks step away from their natural biases (pro or con) regarding candidates... and start looking at different aspects of the campaigns. I know people hate it when folks say this - but in the end - the candidate is important - but the campaign is as well. We will be out gunned with money and with the media regardless of who the candidate is. Thus I do think it is important to look at media treatment of different candidates (regardless if they are our "own" candidate or not) and keep track of type of coverage - and the strategies used by the media to denigrate candidates. Likewise understanding the appeal of a candidate to non-regular dem voters is very useful - gives clues to what levereages we on the ground can use, during the general election, to reach out to independents, nonvoters, and diseffected republicans.

That said: Nice post!

[CWebster]

24. There are some indications the media is turning.

I couldn't believe the cover of the latest issue of Newsweek.
It may be the Democrat's to lose which is why you see the intensity and the backstabbing ratcheted up. There is a lot at stake, not only for the future domination of the Democratic party, but for the direction the country takes.

[Jeff002]

6. Repubs like candidates who talk out of both sides of their mouths

nothing new there.

[Hep]

29. back the truck up!

Prove it! The "Keep lying until it becomes truth" corps are keeping the faith!

[TLM]

44. They really are jacking up their efforts to attack Dean...

And let me say thank you!

Because every time these idiots flood in and try so hard to bash Dean, his poll numbers go up. With every attack, like the Hulk, he just gets bigger and stronger.

I hope guys like nic-jeff keep this up...

[LiberalTexan]

8. The wave is starting......!

A woman my husband works with comes from a long line of Republicans and had nothing but good things to say about Bush a year and a half ago. She recently told my husband that when she gets laid off, she's going to move back to Boston and wants to use her spare time to get involved in a political campaign AGAINST Bush. She asked my husband who he liked and he of course said Howard Dean. He sat down and sent her a few links (not to overdo it) and she said she really liked what she saw.

I don't know if it's the sucky economy, the fact that she will lose her very high position or what.....but don't question it! Just go with the flow.

And, go with the flow even if you don't like the candidate the person is leaning towards. If someone told me they'd be willing to vote for Lieberman, I would start to prod them on why they are shifting AWAY from Bush. Keep the focus there. Put doubts in their heads about the leader they chose. Ask them what they see for the future of this country. Then in the end if that candidate isn't nominated (nothing against Lieberman-- I could have mentioned any candidate) the person will still remember all the reasons they want Bush out.

[Julien Sorel]

9. Whoa there, pardner.

My point is that a I met a real live Republican for Dean, who had more good things to say about Dean than about Bush, and liked Dean for all the typical reasons that Dean supporters do - he was outspoken about his opinion, he is a good politician, he is a moderate.

Many Deanites swallow Dean's moderateness like an ulcer sufferer swallows his Maalox. They don't like it, but they do it anyway because they perceive no alternatives. They got in with Dean when he was against the war (sort of), and now they're locked in. They won't admit this, of course, but some of the people here who are Dean's most rapt followers were Green-types last time around, so you kind of get the idea where their true political sentiments lie. For those folks, Dean is a cult of personality more than a case of a natural political fit. When Dean leaves the scene, they'll be back to the next Kucinich, or Nadir, or whomever.

[slinkerwink]

11. you know....

"Many Clarkites swallow Clark's moderateness like an ulcer sufferer swallows his Maalox. They don't like it, but they do it anyway because they think his four stars will be the best alternative. They got in with Clark when he was against the war (sort of) and now they're locked in as starry-eyed Clarkites. They won't admit this of course, but some of the people here who are Clark's most rapt followers were Green-types last time around, so you kind of get the idea where their true political sentiments lie. For those folks, Clark is a cult of personality more than a case of natural political fit. When Clark leaves the scene, they'll be back to Dean or Kucinich."

See how easily a post full of generic statements can be attributed to Clark also?

Stop spinning.........

[Julien Sorel]

15. LOL

Personally, I'm a Clark person because of his moderateness, and most Clark supporters I know are the same way. Many of Dean's more rabid supporters here are actually far to the left of Dean, as I stated. Since when is telling the truth 'spinning?' When you're talking about dean, of course. :eyes:

One Deanite stole my banner, another stole my words, Dean steals his healthcare plan and economic plan from the hated DLC, his campaign is stolen from McCain -- I'm beginning to sense a pattern here.

[Evanstondem]

18. I'm a Dean person because of his moderateness

plus his ability to forcefully articulate his beliefs.

I'm beginning to sense a pattern in your posts -- unsubstantiated ranting.

[Julien Sorel]

19. Oh really?

It is a matter of fact that some of Dean's most ardent supporters here are Greens, former Greens, and Green-leaners, while some of the rest are simply further to the left. I could name names, but I'm sure that's some kind of rule violation. So show me what is 'unsubstantiated' about my statement.

Badly needed hint: I said many of Dean's supporters here, not all.

[CWebster]

25. Greens, Republicans, Independents...

....Yes, I can see the pattern as well. That is the point, that broad appeal is a lock on the general election.

[JaneQPublic]

26. Indeed...

Broad appeal, for sure:

--Greens
http://www.greensfordean.net/

--Republicans
http://atlblogs.com/republicansfordean/

--Independents
http://deanindependents.org/

Not to mention...

--Libertarians
http://libertariansfordean.blogspot.com/

[Hep]

31. You're a national treasure!

It is a matter of fact that some of Dean's most ardent supporters here are Greens, former Greens, and Green-leaners, while some of the rest are simply further to the left. I could name names, but I'm sure that's some kind of rule violation. So show me what is 'unsubstantiated' about my statement.

Damn that eeevil man for getting people interested in the D party again! Those greens should stay green and vote green every term!

What do you care who supports Dean? You hate the man! Why don't you focus on Clark. God knows NO GREEN would ever support him. Except for the ones that do.

I love how you never have valid points. You're one of the more entertaining posters here.

[Julien Sorel]

58. I think you need to learn what a 'valid point' is

before accusing people of not having any.

[Hep]

60. I know full well what it is

And you've just added another post that lacks it. Care to prove my case further?

[TLM]

46. I am a former Green and I support Dean, not just because he is moderate

but rather because he is moderate in such a way that he, unlike folks like Kucinich, actually achieves progress for progressive goals.

Dean is not perfect, and I am under no illusions that he is some ubber liberal... however he is liberal on the issues that are important to me and conservative on issues where I do not mind, like guns and spending, but most of all he has accomplished more progress for liberal goals via his moderate style than any far leftist can ever hope to accomplish. The all or nothing mentality of the left is a sure fire way to continue to lose elections.

And something I hear my own family members saying back in the mid-west and in Texas... they'd rather have someone who pisses them off now and then and that they don't agree with on everything, than some smarmy bastard who won't take a stand or give a straight answers. I talked to my folks the other day and my sister told me something my uncle has said during the debates, and keep in mind this is a older conservative guy... "I might not like everything Dean says, but he says it. That Kerry can talk for 10 minutes and not say a god damned thing."

[Julien Sorel]

57. You are a fromer Green who makes up

fanciful bullshit and lies, and then runs away when you are called on it.

[Hep]

62. LOL

There's that phantom post again! The mystery post where Dean is proven a liar! Written by the great pumpkin himself! Maybe this halloween we'll SEE this irrefutable evidence!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. moderateness = Bush Lite

in most anyone's book.
If Dean is a moderate, why would anyone vote for him over Bush? People vote image over substance and if there is not a lot of difference in substance then you won't pull enough away from Bush to want to risk change. People naturally stick with the incumbent anyway, even if he is less than ideal. Dean does not represent a big enough change, and furthermore, he has less of a resume compared to Bush. Yep, incumbency counts for that much.

[Hep]

47. Your math is wrong

moderate /= Bush Lite.

Voting for IWR = Bush Lite

[TLM]

48. NIce Rove talking points there.... now for some facts.

First off it is not being moderate that makes one Bush lite... it is supporting Bush's agenda, just not as enthusiastically as Bush might like. Or trying to say that you're now against Bush's policy when you voted for it in congress, or went on CNN to say the world needed to belly up to the bar and get behind Bush.

Secondly, you can be 100% against Bush's agenda and still be a moderate democrat. Because being a moderate is not defined by the strength of your opposition to the other party as much as by the means by which one attempts to move the goals of their own party forward.

A moderate is one who is willing to compromise to make progress.
An extremist would rather lose and make no progress than compromise.

The civil unions bill is a great example... gay rights of any kind are 100% against the conservative agenda. But by compromising and making it about the rights and not the words, by making civil unions instead of gay marriage, Dean got it done. He made the progress that was needed to establish the law protecting the rights that needed to be protected.

He got it passed without compromising what was truly important about the law, the rights. That is a progressive moderate position, and it works... it works better than whist washy fence sitting or extremist insistence on ideological purity.

I support Dean because I believe he can do more for liberal and progressive goals than any other person running.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

55. He has less of a resume than Bush

respond to that. BushLite won't cut it. And any of our guys can do more for liberal and progressive goals- but only if they get elected.

[Hep]

30. Oh No!

YOu mean Dean supporters actually see the big picture? They put pragmatism over idealism? HEAVEN FORFEND!

Dean, the REAL Satan! BillyBunter, MASTER OF TRUTH!

[sangh0]

39. They put pragmatism over idealism

True, but it's awfully strange how, at one point, some of those very same people used to put principle first, and criticized the Dems for their pragmatism and their moderation.

[TLM]

49. Yeah and I think most of those folks fall into two camps...

Those who know they fucked up in 2000 and want to make amends... and those who figured out that you can accomplish more through pragmatic progressive compromise, than stubborn insistence that the whole world conform to a far left view overnight.

[gristy]

10. Very nice post.

Just wonderful. :)

[Capn Sunshine]

12. Just so's you know....

http://atlblogs.com/republicansfordean/

One of several websites we're aware of.

[Kanary]

13. not surprising..

..when I went to a couple of Dean meetups, there was a whole group of Republicans there.... got loud applause from the rest.

IMO, Dean is what Republicans *used* to be, so it's not surprising that he would attract them.

I rather have a Dem, though...

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

14. you are *so* right!

"Dean is what Republicans *used* to be, so it's not surprising that he would attract them."

Kucinich is my number one favorite candidate, and if the primary was held tomorrow, he would have my vote. Perhaps I'm a moderate Kucinich fan, but I think I can make common cause with old fashioned Republicans, who are as horrified by the Bush regime as any normal person. If it takes Dean to do it, I'll hold my nose (maybe). At this point, I'm not yet convinced Dean can beat Bush. If I have to hold my nose, I'd rather do it for Clark or Gephardt than the odious Kerry and Dean.

But what Republicans used to be would be a lot better than what Republicans are now.

[Hep]

33. Guess what!

LINCOLN is what the republicans used to be, too.

And it was Democrats who terrorized thousands of african americans in Wilmington, NC at the turn of the century because black folks were turning their district republican.

So why don't we can the ambiguous greenspeak?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

34. "ambiguous greenspeak"?

I don't know what you mean, but the old-fashioned Republicans who were pro-civil rights are all dead now. The old-fashioned Republicans I'm referring to are the Rockefeller Republicans some of which are still alive (and have morphed into Democrats like Dean).

[Hep]

35. ambiguous greenspeal

meaning claims that dems and reps are indistinguishable. Find me a republican from years ago that supported civil unions and universal healthcare.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

37. dems and reps are indistinguishable

when it comes to corporate power. Is that unambiguous enough? btw, I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the Green party.

[Hep]

40. corporate power?

Can you expand on that?

[TLM]

50. Wel hep he's right about that aspect of it...

It is not that they are the same in terms of policy, but the fact is that most Dems and Repubs are owned by the same corporate interests that fund their campaigns.

There is a reason Ken Lay is not in prison, and it is not just the republicans. Dems and Repubs are both working inside the same system in DC, and that machinery of that system is greased with corporate cash. So nobody wants to piss off the corporate overlords.

That's one of the reasons I like Dean... he's not beholden to that system because his campaign is not dependant on those same corporate masters.

And Dean's corporate reform regarding taxes, health care, and over seas factories are just what the doctor ordered.

[JohnKleeb]

63. He or She wasnt insulting Dean lighten up

Its just that Dean happens to be a social liberal and economically more conservative, these are guys I can respect, they arent me philosophically but they are more moderate. While those terrorist acts by the democrats in the south was going on in the days just after the civil war, my family was still in the old country heh. Had I lived back then I would support the democratic idea of fightign for the working man and etc but I would like the republicans for being mostly abolitionist and etc, basically I would be too liberal to win lol and too right.

[newyawker99]

21. Hi Kanary!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Kanary]

42. Thanks, newyawker!

I appreciate the welcome. Crowded room here, yeah? ^_^

I gotta say, I'm amazed at the amount of heat generated by my simple statement.... actually, I'm rather amazed at the amount of heat in the whole site. Doesn't seem to bode well for 2004.....

a saddened Kanary....

[Hep]

32. Get ready!

You won't have a dem if that's how you define it.

[Hep]

36. I'll as kyou directly

Republicans USED TO BE? You mean all those republicans from the 80's who were fighting for equal rights for same sex couples? Those republicans who favored universal healthcare? Why not be more specific and NAME some of these old republicans Dean resembles.

[JohnKleeb]

64. kanary did not insult Dean at all, Hep

Dean I have read growing up was a republican, a Rockefeller republican, not a Goldwater republican, now I wouldnt support one of these guys for president as opposed to lets say LBJ or RFK, liberals of the day, Republicans in the 80's were simliar to how they are now then 50's and 60's moderate republicans. Sheesh it wasnt a slam at all. Those old republicans wouldnt get my vote but I could respect and like them.

[janekat]

16. Nice to hear that a Republican is at least amenable to Dean....

Had she heard the familiar refrain that "Dean is a Liberal" and just not bought into it? Or, had she never heard that. I'm curious...

[Capn Sunshine]

17. It reflects Deans broad based appeal

The message is resonating with everyone.

[VermontDem2004]

22. She knows a lot more about the internet then any of you?

How are you so sure? Some of us may have taken internet cources and have learned how to use and perfect certain softwares such as Adobe Illustrator and Adobe LiveMotion, also Home Publishing Suite. Does she know how to work Adobe Photoshop and does she now XML and HTML like the back of her hand?

[maxanne]

23. there were a few

Republicans at the Regional Organizing Conference here last week. One wrote a letter to the paper about it. There are plenty of moderate, even liberal Republicans who are horrified by the direction their party is taking.

[realFedUp]

27. What's not to like about Dean.

:-)

[GumboYaYa]

38. WOW!!!! that was very positive.

Attitudes like this will help get a Dem in the White House whoever the nominee is.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. I know two "real live republicans" for Gephardt

And they voted for Bush*, both for Gov. and Pres. They have nothing but contempt for Bush*, and have since his illegal invasion of Iraq, continually referred to him in negative terms.

[TLM]

51. Don't you mean MC Powder?

Where my daily show watcherz in the hizouse?

[beyurslf]

45. I have many republican friends

who have expressed their disapointment with Bush and how radically right he has turned. While none have said they will vote for any specific Dem, several have said they are waiting to see who we nominate and will consider it then. I have only only one or two republican friends who continue to say they will support Bush no matter what.

[TLM]

52. My crazy republican neighbor thinks that Bush is being coached by satan.

He really thinks the anti-christ is telling Bush what to do.

[JaneQPublic]

53. New group: "Conservatives Against Bush"

For real. Check it out:

http://www.conservativesagainstbush.com/

Many items in their list of grievances square with ours:

-- Bush's fiscal irresponsibility

-- The aftermath of the Iraq war

-- Wolfowitz, the neo-cons, and imperialism

-- The Ashcroftonian assault on liberty

-- The Patriot Act

[Clark Can WIN]

54. Here's a cookie for you

But I'l paint my house periwinkle if I see a post from a Dean supporter returning the favor to Clark.

And I agree with you, Dean is one of my least favorite candidates and Republicans bailing out is a good thing. We still have plenty of time to turn this gal around. Once Clark is the nominee.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

56. Believe me

I would rather have Clark than Dean. Please Clark, get going!

[NewJeffCT]

59. A Republican friend of mine

I posted this in another thread, but I got an angry email today from a Republican friend of mine complaining about Haliburton's profiteering on the war in Iraq, how they are charging the US taxpayer for security, but then the US miliary provides it to them for free, etc.

He seems to have an interest in Dean.

But, we're both from New England and a Republican up here is often about the same as a Southern Democrat

[Padraig18]

61. I know quite a few Repubs who are not going to vote for * next November

There is growing discontent in America's Heartland...