"90% of all black voters will vote for whomever the democrats nominate"

[preocupied]

How many of you all here are so naive to take the black vote for granted as a poster did with the above statement?

Someone wrote that today and I feel this Democratic party is threading dangerous waters with this continued arrogance.

Bush and the Repukes are playing this inclusive game lately and the once party of exclusion is trying very hard to win our minority vote.

If we don't check ourselves, we are headed straight for failure.

If Bush drops Cheney and runs with Condi as a VP, I would be very worried. I do not believe they would get the majority but I am sure a good 10% to 30% could vote Republican which could turn the election in their favor. Black people need role models other than sports and music entertainers, people who are prominent in society.

As a black man, I sometimes feel the Democratic party only talks the talk and does not walk the walk, the exception being Bill Clinton who made a difference with his appointments and his Africa trade bill to inner city renewal programs! From home ownership to education to Health care, blacks prospered more under Clinton than any other President. Do not make the mistake believing that the loyalty the black community had to Clinton will automatically transfer to the next nominee, especially with Republicans now attempting to play this inclusive game.

If we win the election next year, I challenge this party to seek and promote blacks and other minorities to positions of power, and publicly support them even when under Republican attack. I am not speaking of Jesse Jackson, no Reverends, we must get on top of the game and seek out professionals who are willing to make a political contribution and allow them prominent roles in the next administration. Positions higher than Ron Brown, Powell and Rice, people who we are comfortable enough with to put on a future Presidential ticket. We cannot loose our status as the party of inclusion, and we need to wake up as we are being challenged.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

1. You're forgetting something important re: Condi

She isn't black.
She's a crazy, corrupt white woman stuck in a black woman's body.

[preocupied]

2. I totally agree with you....

[spooky3]

33. Hey, she's not one of us. If you're going to change her demographics

go all the way and say she's a white MAN.

[pnb]

40. Huh?

So what's is supposed to take to be a black person other than black skin?!?

[La_Serpiente]

3. I can somewhat understand what you are saying

I don't like it when Democrats take blacks for granted. Donna Brazile shares this same view in a sense.

One thing I am hoping is that there is some verification process for voters that want to double check that they are registered to vote.

[Skwmom]

4. You're right.

The comment in your subject line is incredibly stupid! But since the Democratic party seems bound and determined to walk of cliff into the abyss with phony Dean, I not surprised. Obviously the Republican party does not have exclusive rights to stupidity.

[RetroLounge]

42. the Republican party does not have exclusive rights to stupidity

And you just proved that with your post.

Where does his post mention Dean? WHere? I don't see it.

What a pathetic Dean-Bashing statement.

Let go of the hate, it's obviously affected your ability to reply to the post itself.

[elperromagico]

5. I think that statement

is based on past patterns. African-Americans have consistently voted Democratic since at least the sixties.

Of course, that could change, but I doubt Condi Rice would be the person to produce that change. In the past two years she's cultivated a reputation for being... err... umm... incompetent. Powell might have an effect, but I don't think Rice would.

Of course, the Democratic candidate should reach out to every group. We should never take our position as the party of inclusion for granted. We should work for every vote we receive.

On edit: The reason they vote for Democrats is because we have been the ones who have consistently fought for them. We shouldn't stop doing that now.

[preocupied]

10. Say it again!

So true, prior to the 60s and the civil rights movement, blacks shared the vote with Repukes and pre 1950s, many of the KKK and other separatist groups voted Democratic. The Repukes still had points from Lincoln ending slavery.

We need to work for every vote the way Clinton did!

"is based on past patterns. African-Americans have consistently voted Democratic since at least the sixties.

<snip>

Of course, the Democratic candidate should reach out to every group. We should never take our position as the party of inclusion for granted. We should work for every vote we receive"

[elperromagico]

15. The reason they started going consistently for us

was because of the '64 election. Goldwater openly courted racism. LBJ was pushing Kennedy's civil rights legislation through Congress as only he could push legislation. The black vote for LBJ was 97%; I don't think it has ever dropped lower than 80%.

But we can't run on fumes. You can never take anyone's vote for granted. We need to say to every group, "We are going to fight for you. We will be your advocates. We will do everything to improve the quality of your lives, and we won't stop until we've achieved results."

[DuctapeFatwa]

19. "They" and "Us" have had some changes since 1964

It is true that in the wake of the Voting Rights Act, in their eagerness to gain from their new "Ride to the Polls" operations, they inadverdantly included ethnic minorities and by extension, low income voters, in "us."

As you very eloquently, if unintentionally point out, that has changed.

[elperromagico]

22. Of course it has changed

That's the problem. We've been negligient of some of our most loyal supporters, and made it possible for the Republicans (who don't give a damn about minorities) to siphon votes.

You wouldn't go twenty years without telling your wife "I love you," just because you assume she knows you love her. We can't just expect minorities to know that we're fighting for them (and will fight for them in the future)--- we have to show it through words and actions.

[DuctapeFatwa]

27. Even if you told her twenty times a day

If you bought all your suits at Armani and took her, with great fanfare to the thrift store twice a year, dined on caviar with a different exotic mistress every night while she ate canned soup alone, after a while, telling her you loved her might ring a little hollow.

On the other hand, it would not be realistic to expect the Democratic party to effect or even attempt to effect, the kind of drastic social and economic upheaval that would be necessary to alter the course of events.

The Democrats, after all, are dependent for their campaign money from the same corporate oligarchy that the Republicans are, and that segment of the population whose affluence permits participation in the voting process obtains a very real psychological benefit from the illusion that they have a choice.

[MercutioATC]

6. Black voters should definitely not be taken for granted.

However, I think the number is closer to 95%. The Republicans simply do not have anything to offer minority voters.

[w4rma]

7. What, specifically, is a Democratic politician doing that you don't like?

And what would you like that Democratic politician to do, instead?

[preocupied]

14. We never consider any minority candidates seriously....

We put Carol Moseley Brown and Al Sharpton up there but we have this disgusting approach to them that they could never win the nomination. Why is that?

Why do we right off all our minority candidates as dreamers when many believe Powell probably could have won the Republican nomination if he ran? I would like to see a minority candidate at least capable of winning our nomination, could be any minority, black, yellow, gray, brown, red or blue! Let's walk the walk and stop talking the talk!

[piece sine]

30. O.K, everybody...OFF the Dean bandwagon

AL Sharpton's our main man now.

[Faygo Kid]

8. Black voters understand the power of government

I heard Carl Bernstein say that in a speech about 10 years ago, and it has stayed with me. That is why they vote Democratic; they know, historically (since FDR) that the government DOES have an impact on peoples' lives, and that that impact can be positive, or part of a "Southern Strategy". The GOP power brokers know it, too, only they are the wealthy K Street lobbyists, and know where they want government to go (and it's not "smaller" - just, as with GWB, retargeted to their interests). Thanks for a great post; I am with you on your analysis.

[KG]

9. what about those blacks looking to the left?

the dem. party stands to lose black votes to 3rd party left.

the appeal of voting one's conscience for a party that promotes real change in this country can't be denied.

[WilliamPitt]

11. Agreed wholeheartedly, but

African-American voters went 9-1 for Gore in 2000. That's one of the things that made ChoicePoint in Florida so repugnant. The poster who made that comment could well have been leaning on very recent history.

[AP]

13. Jesse Jackson campaigned relentlessly for Gore in FL

And the Republicans punished him for it by blowing him on fathering the kid with that women who wasn't his wife, and then Gore burned him to by not fighting for the voters who were disenfranchised.

Will Jackson be there in 2004? Ok, probably yes. But it was more than he could do to deal with one state. How many states would he have to work to help get Dean elected, or any candidate who doesn't bring out Black voters with a great message on race?

[AP]

12. 90% of Black voters who SHOW UP AT THE POLLS might vote for the Dem,

but if the Dems run a candidate who's crap on race, how many are going to show up?

[elperromagico]

16. Right. Turnout is everything.

nt

[jobycom]

17. Yeah, that's it, AP

Democrats are comfortable that black voters won't support Bush, and won't fall for a ploy by the Repubs to run Rice or Powell as VP, no more than they fell for Clarence Thomas. But at some point they might stay home. Florida was atrocious, and not just the denial and possible tampering with the vote, but in the unwillingness of even the Democrats to mount a strong challenge on the issue. I understand why Gore capitulated in a losing battle, and respect him for it, but there's no denying that again the compromise came on the backs of the most loyal and political savvy Democratic block.

There's also a generational thing. I speak with a lot of Democrats here in Austin because of the club I'm in. It's clear that the older black voters will vote for the Democratic candidate no matter what. Younger voters are not so dedicated. We've gotten past the time when the Democrats had earned such loyalty. They are better than the Republicans on the race issue, but maybe not enough better to count on the black vote for eternity.

I agree almost entirely with the initial post of this thread, except that I don't think Rice would draw many voters to Bush. It's still the party of Reagan, Trent Lott and Bob Jones, and the Repubs would jettison some of their loyal core to appeal openly to black voters.

It could happen. Logistically, the Repubs would come out ahead if they did it right. They would take votes from us and lose votes that would never go to us, giving them a net gain (votes taken from one party and given to the other count twice, whereas third party votes or non-votes count once). It would take a subtle shift, and it could happen so quickly it could leave our heads spinning. Repubs are no longer about white and black, only about green and blue (blood). But I don't think Bush or his cabal will be the ones to do it.

[AP]

21. I was going to say something before about the generational issue, but

thought it was too much to get into now. However, I will.

Last February, Nissan ran a big advertising campaing for Black History Month. If a I remember correctly, they ran billboards which said black history (crossed out) future (written in) month.

Lots of black activists flipped out. Although objections were expressed in many ways, I think they had at their root a sentiment that started being discussed a few months earlier regarding the way that so much of pop culture (driven by big business)) was subtley trying to drive a wedge between today's generation of Black young people and their parent's generation, which is VERY democratic. I forget the examples, but there were some very concrete examples from songs and movies and advertising where there was a clear attempt to ridicule liberal politics and elevate both a rejection of those politics and a political apathy (and engender the sentiment that liberal politics doesn't look after interests of black America).

When you think about it, you might guess that Nissan would have more to gain from getting Republicans elected. So it's interesting that they'd cross out "history" right? Especially in this context.

I've heard that Puff Daddy is thinking about going into politics. It'd be great if he did, if he ran as a liberal democrat, becasue that might serve as bulwark against the moves being made by people to control pop culture to get this generation to reject their parent's generation's politics. Of course, if Sean C. ran as a conservative Democrat or Republican, you could probably kiss goodbye those 90% Dem/104% turnout (viz representation in population) numbers.

[sendero]

32. there's the point...

... I wanted to make :) Sure, 90% - 95% of VOTING African-Americans vote Dem. But if they mostly stay home it is pretty much moot.

[1songbird]

37. You make a good point.

Black voters will come out and vote in greater numbers when they
feel that they have some connection or affinity for the candidate.
This is why Dean's position on affirmative action is critical. If there is inclusiveness then black voters will show up in good numbers.
This is what we need.

[Evanstondem]

18. Posters like that don't represent the Democratic Party

I seems that Jesse Jackson Jr. and Major Owens think that Dean won't take the black vote for granted.

[bluestateguy]

20. Condescending Rice is not running

She's pro-choice, which is a no-no for the religious right. The end.

[elperromagico]

23. Cheney's pro gay rights, is he not?

Or maybe he's pro gay rights the same way Jeb is pro drugs--- the liberties should only apply for his daughter.

[Hippo_Tron]

44. Chenney fucked up in the debate...

Hoping that the subject wouldn't come up again.

[Isome]

24. Yeah, we do usually vote Democratic...

But that was before DU (an anonymous mass gathering, where no one knows who the other one is for sure)... I swear, from the commentary posted here, it's hard to tell if you guys are really Democrats, or you just play them online. It's disheartening to have your worst fears about the parties' sameness confirmed after logging on, and not take it into consideration at a later date.

And, please, no one start in about how much worse it would be for us if we voted for a 3rd party and denied support to the Dems. Being at the bottom on the social and economic ladders, whether in actuality or perception, isn't new to us. "Widespread poverty & joblessness in the Black community is a 'social problem', widespread poverty & joblessness in the white community is a 'national depression'."

[elperromagico]

25. I repeated myself

On edit: I posted the message twice. Blah.

[elperromagico]

26. There is certainly condescension

and the attitude that a Dem candidate has the African-American vote "locked up" is a reflection of that. It is a pretty conceited attitude.

It's easy to look at statistical patterns and say, "This group will go for us" or "This state will go for us," but nothing in politics is set in stone. There was a time when the Democrats were guaranteed to win the South in every election; that's certainly not true any more.

I certainly can't blame anyone for feeling a disconnect from the Democratic Party. The party deserves the blame if it is taking votes for granted. It's insulting to say, "Well, you'll vote for us anyway, so we won't bother to consider your needs when we craft our platform."
That's a sure way to lose.

[GOPBasher]

28. Very bad to take the black vote for granted

First of all, as you've stated, it is NOT a certainty that even close to 90% will vote for the Dem. Secondly, even if that were true, the question is, 90% of what? Turnout is the key. If two different candidates can get the 90%, but one of them can get a much bigger turnout among African Americans, then of course the one with a bigger turnout will get more votes.

[0rganism]

29. How does this differ from Democratic voters statistically?

I'd wager that around 90% of Democrats vote for the Democratic nominee in 2004. And 90% of black voters are Democrats. So it's a safe bet that over 80% of black voters will vote for the Democratic nominee. Now adding that extra 10% seems like a bit of a stretch, but I've read that black voters are the most loyal Democratic demographic.

Now I don't disagree with the content of your post generally, and the republicans have certainly taken steps to put blacks in very prominent cabinet posts. In fact, I'd say that's the single best thing the current administration has done: minorities and women are pretty well represented within the bush cabinet. Could that suck away at the Democratic minority base? I just don't know.

I do disagree about "no reverends", tho. If I were prez, I'd want Rev. Sharpton as press secretary. That guy can Talk and think on his feet.

[preocupied]

41. Sharpton as press secretary... now that would be interesting... ;-) nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. Sharpton will save the Democratic party.

He will not get nominated, but he is the Democratic party's conscience on matters that pertain to race. Ignore the substance of his criticism at your own peril.

[1songbird]

38. You are right on point

[mrgorth]

34. Dems have failed african americans

Did blacks do better under Clinton than *? Sure, but that's not saying much. We had a popular 2 term dem president. Did cities get rebuilt? Did health care get solved? No. We got the dot commers and SUVs. If the dems want black votes they'd better go get 'em and deliver this time.

[AP]

36. Actually, cities did get rebuilt, minority unemployment plummeted, home...

...ownership went up.

By most of the financial measures, Clinton was great for African Americans.

Where Democrats have failed African Americans, oddly, hasn't been walking the walking so much as it has been talking the talk (but I'll admit that talking the talk better, would result in a better walk).

It has surprised me how many Dems constantly avoid explaining coherently why it's so important to take the issue of race seriously. It is by no means all Dems who do this. Clinton wallked the wallk and talked the talk. But there are a few dems who conspicuosly don't.

[1songbird]

39. Yeah and more African Americans

were jailed under inconsistent drug laws than under any other president.

[AP]

45. Most drug crimes are state offenses. Perhaps states with Republican

legislatures and governors were the ones doing the worst, eh?

[hlthe2b]

35. We don't need just a high proportion to vote DEM, We need

record high numbers of newly enthused voters to vote DEM-- that's true whether it be among African Americans, Hispanics, young under 30 voters, older independents or any other demographic. I don't want to take ANYONE for granted. That's why I join others here in being very disheartened with the various candidate bashing posts. Discuss the elements truthfully, but for heaven's sake... we must come together for the good of us all. No single group can become self-centered to the detriment of all of us. Surely we learned SOMETHING in 2000....

No candidate will be perfect for everyone and we should call them on the issues that matter to us and our constitutencies. But heavens, we must not do it ceaselessly to our own detriment.

[TruthIsAll]

43. They always have voted 90%+ for the Dems and it will be higher next time..

because we all know that the repukes disenfranchised at least 55,000 blacks from voting in Florida. And don't forget Tennessee.

You can take that for granted.

[HFishbine]

46. 10% to 30%

would go for Bush/Rice? Against whom? Dean/Sharpton? Clark/Mosley Braun? Kucinich/Jackson?