GA DUers: What's the feeling about Miller in your state right now?

[liberalhistorian]

For those of you living in GA, I'm curious as to the reaction to Zell Miller's incredible, unbelievable, back-stabbing, pond-scum-sucking endorsement of Shrub and the Bushistas. Is is positive or negative so far, and what are people saying?

[Mistress Quickly]

1. Oh, you know, everyone LOVES zig zag Zell n/t

[wtmusic]

2. DU to Eloriel....come in...do you read?

[Exsquid]

3. Zell speaks his mind

Zell Miller is saying something that he believes in, and I can't fault him for that. He has stated that the Nat'l Democrat Party has gotten so out of touch with the USA that he cannot support it at this time. I wish more pols had his convictions.

The reaction has been positive and well received. I don't think this is a back stab, either. Miller has been pretty consistent in his voting record. I think that this was expected and a logical next step.

[jonnyblitz]

4. well received by whom? n/t

[MUAD_DIB]

6. Well received by the GOP no doubt.

Well if that is the way that Zell wants to go he should at least have enough courage to jump parties like Jeffords and put an end to the charade.

[Exsquid]

10. You're right......

You're right, he should jump but won't. Zell is a yellow-dog dem from way back. He chose not to run instead of switching. His biggest beef has been the advise and consent role of the Senate with respect to Bush judicial nominees.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. and his position when Repubs did it to Clinton was?

[Exsquid]

26. I think he was governor then and had no say in the matter,,,,,,

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mountainman]

8. Miller is saying something that he believes in

Then he should become a Rethug, since rethugs say the same thing Miller is saying. Why be a lying scumbag when you can be an honest rethug?

Miller has no values if he runs as a Dem and acts as a rethug. The people deserve a real Dem not two rethugs in the next election.

[Roark]

30. There is no one to run for his seat.....

That is the problem - there is no Democrat yet to run for his seat.

Andrew Young passed on running. Sam Nunn's daughter passed on it. As of right now, the only people running for the seat Miller is going to vacate are rethugs.

A recent Atlanta Journal Constitution poll showed that over 80% of Georgia approves of * and his regime. The state Dem party can't find anyone to run for Miller's seat because it is probably pretty likely they will lose. And on top of that, all the national Democratic party does is the same thing most of the posters here do - dismiss Georgia as part of the south and talk about how more stringent measures should have been taken to bring the South "in line" after the civil war.

Georgia will go Republican in 2004. It sucks to live here.

[stanwyck]

14. Well received?

maybe over at Free Republic. And at Faux News. Nice try.

[lastliberalintexas]

17. Really?

"He has stated that the Nat'l Democrat Party has gotten so out of touch with the USA that he cannot support it at this time."

In what ways has the DemocratIC party become out of touch with America?

Is it because most Dems opposed our pre-emptively invading another sovereign nation that was not an imminent threat to our country? Or is it because Dems support strong minimum/living wage laws and workplace protections for employees? Or is it because Dems support overtime pay for hours worked in excess of 40 hours per week? Or is it because we support the separation of church and state, thereby preventing the installation of an American Taliban or Ayotollah? Or is it because we support the right of a woman to make a medical decision without interference from the government? Or is it because we oppose discrimination, whether it is in the workplace or schoolyard? Or is it because Dems believe that the US tax system should be a progressive one, based on one's ability to pay? Or is it because Dems strongly support the first amendment rights of everyone (even Rush)?

IN WHAT WAYS ARE THOSE VALUES OUT OF TOUCH WITH THE USA? Please enlighten.

[Exsquid]

24. Let's talk about it....

Let me ask you this: when was September 11 imminent? A yaer, month, week, or day before they hit? Zell says that his party is putting politics above national security, and that is unacceptable to him.

I would say that everyone, regardless of political ideology supports reasonable minimum wage laws and workplace protections. The disconnect comes in when those regulations prevent/stifle business.

As for the seperation of church and state, the Constitution grants freedom of religion, and I have never seen any lawmaker propose that clause be repealed. I doubt we ever will.

I also would argue that women have the right to make medical decisions, but the decision also involves another person, namely child that was created. That discussion can be taken off-line though.

The discrimination issue stays alive because affirmative action. Is the US not probably the most merit-oriented society in history? When will we quit telling an individual in "adversely affected" group that they are not smart enough to make it on there own and can only make it with the help of government?

Miller also has been in favor of cutting marginal taxes. I believe that this issue is one that you will soon be right on. Once the tax burden has been shifted to less than 50% of wage earners, then the gov't (Dems/Reps) will truly have real power. Would a majority ever not vote a pol who absolves greater than 50% of a voting population?

In the classical sense, I'm as liberal as they get, so we've got alot in common.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Gee let's examine those facts a minute, then let's examine of you are as

"liberal as they come" (which I sincerely doubt)

Let me ask you this: when was September 11 imminent? A yaer, month, week, or day before they hit? Zell says that his party is putting politics above national security, and that is unacceptable to him.

So did his party put politics above national security when the Hart Rudmann report was handed to George Bush who dismissed it and said "Cheney's handling that"?

Did his party put politics before security when the Department of Homeland security was initially drafted as a 38 page bill and then swelled to over 400 pages including a provision to let Lilly off the hook for a drung NOT RELATED to homeland security?

Did his party play politics when the WHite House classified KNOWN information regarding 9/11?
Did his party put politics before security when they tried to get theTRUTH of the ACTUAL costs of the war before committing to it?
Or with a forged document?

exactly WHEN in YOUR "as liberal as they get" estimation did his party do this?

"I would say that everyone, regardless of political ideology supports reasonable minimum wage laws and workplace protections. The disconnect comes in when those regulations prevent/stifle business."


Please expand on this. I frankly think business STIFLES wages and workplace protections and have represented enough people with mesotheliomas over the years to KNOW it for a fact.

Is his party stifling business by making sure companies that KNEW they were polluting and killing others and spoiling communities pay their fair share of the clean-up?

Frankly, NOTHING stifles businesses more than the inability to compete as is the case wit companies that COULD NOT bid on the sweetheart contracts signed behind closed doors granting deals to Halliburton in favor of less costly more efficient companies.


As for the seperation of church and state, the Constitution grants freedom of religion, and I have never seen any lawmaker propose that clause be repealed. I doubt we ever will.

Freedom OF and FROM religion.

I also would argue that women have the right to make medical decisions, but the decision also involves another person, namely child that was created. That discussion can be taken off-line though.

When that person becomes a "person" they can't get aborted because they are born.

The discrimination issue stays alive because affirmative action. Is the US not probably the most merit-oriented society in history? When will we quit telling an individual in "adversely affected" group that they are not smart enough to make it on there own and can only make it with the help of government?

Funny. Affirmative Action does just the opposote. It says you are smart enough to make it even if you aren't WHITE enough to.

If anything, you just argued your point with more right wing talking points than a Rush advertisement.

[Exsquid]

31. Q & A

Q: So did his party put politics above national security when the Hart Rudmann report was handed to George Bush who dismissed it and said "Cheney's handling that"?

A: The report was not dismissed. I think it would be logical to assume that Cheney is handling some (or maybe all, who knows) of the report to report to the President. I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of high level administration officials are handling it.

Q: Did his party put politics before security when the Department of Homeland security was initially drafted as a 38 page bill and then swelled to over 400 pages including a provision to let Lilly off the hook for a drung NOT RELATED to homeland security?

A: You seem to be someone who knows the nature of government. Therefore when a new government cabinent is created, I'd think everyone has their hand in the cookie jar. I don't like it either. It's another fat, bloated bureaucracy. The Lilly rider? I think I know what you're talking about: the cap on lawsuits. Is that right? I know there are riders to bills every day that are completely unrelated to the bill at hand.

Q: Did his party play politics when the WHite House classified KNOWN information regarding 9/11?

A: No, I don't think Zell's party did. National Security matters are usually classified to some extent. I would also say that any federal official who has a need to know and clearance has seen these documents.

Q: Did his party put politics before security when they tried to get the TRUTH of the ACTUAL costs of the war before committing to it?
Or with a forged document?

A: No, that is resonable. I don't think Zell has a problem with that. I'm don't follow the forged document question.

Dude, I've got to go, but I'll follow up tomorrow. Thanks for understanding.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Democrat party?

Tsk, Tsk, you should know better than to expose yourself so quickly...

[mndemocrat_29]

21. You can't fault him for endorsing Bush?

n/t

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MGKrebs]

7. Oh, the emails are flying about a response.

I'm in Atlanta, so we might be different from the rest of the state, but the group I am corresponding with are sending emails to Daschle and the state party people to get Zell removed from committee assignments and as a superdelegate to the convention.

A PR statement and a protest may be in the works, although personally, I would rather see this handled relatively quietly within the Dem party than with a huge public outcry.
Giving this public attention just hurts our image as Dems.

To me, the guy is just senile or something, and any party priveleges he has should be removed.

[mitchtv]

20. 'hurts our image as Dems?"

Sorry if I moan every time I hear that. throw the bum out , loudly and with lots of fanfare,It hurts us to take this lying down. Same , by the way with Ca AG Bill lockyer , another traitor.

[Sushi_lover]

9. Zell: whore of the lottery industry. always a republican at heart

how he became governor: get financed by the lottery industry.

get the lottery approved by saying it will improve education. then cut state budget for education and use the lottery to offset the cuts. tax the poor thru the lottery.

don't fix suburban sprawl. approve more roads but don't push mass transit.

that's Zell's record here in Georgia. How can we call him a Democrat?

[janekat]

11. IMO - He's a political opportunist

He's pretty much been working with Bush & Co. now for a few years. He will now be a "much lauded" ex-Democrat. He's getting all kinds of attention....

[Freddie Stubbs]

13. That sounds like an awful record that you just described

Why was he reelected as Governor? And why wasn't he defeated for the Senate seat in 2000?

[stanwyck]

16. HOPE scholarship

EVERYONE voted for Zell because of the HOPE scholarship.

[Exsquid]

25. Answers

First question: he won the plurality of the vote in '94 to get reelected. On the second question: he wasn't up for reelection. He was appointed by Roy Barnes to fill the seat left vacant when Paul Coverdell died.

[charlie]

29. He ran in 2000

for the privelege of serving the remaining 4 years of Coverdell's term.

[ulysses]

12. haven't really talked to anyone

except Ms Uly. She wasn't shocked, but the reaction was definitely negative. :D

[Kamika]

18. In what positions was Miller really liberal in?

Im thinking hes a dinosaur from the old pre 50s southern democratic party where half the members where in the KKK

[ulysses]

23. none.

Miller was never a liberal, to my knowledge, on anything. He just wasn't a reactionary conservative until he got to the Senate.

[The Magistrate]

28. Whatever The Position Is

It ought to involve a rail, tar, and feathers.

[mitchum]

32. Same as it was yesterday and the day before...

he's a sorry piece of shit