A quiz about the DU copyright rules...

[Skinner]

Poll question: A quiz about the DU copyright rules...

As many of you know, we have rules on Democratic Underground regarding the proper use of copyrighted material on our website. One part of my job is to go around the board cleaning up the copyright violations so they comply with our rules. We do not send nasty warnings to people who violate copyright, nor do we ever ban people for inadvertently violating copyright, because we do not consider this type of infraction to be super-serious. Furthermore, I understand that sometimes it can take a while for new people to figure out the rules, because we do have a lot of them.

But I am mystified by how many copyright violators are people with over 1000 posts to their credit who have been members of Democratic Underground for months or even years.

So I went back and checked the DU rules, because I thought perhaps some people might be getting confused because the rules aren't very clear on this subject. Here's what the rules say:

From the "Short Version" of the rules: Don't post entire articles. Instead, post short excerpts (not exceeding 4 paragraphs) with links.

From the "Long Version" of the rules: Don't post entire copyrighted articles. If you wish to reference an article, provide a brief excerpt and include a link to the original source. Generally, excerpts should not exceed three or four paragraphs.

Source: http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

After checking the rules, I can see that there might be some confusion about what is acceptable for copyrighted material. So I decided to do a poll to find out if people are confused. Here's my question....

What is the maximum number of paragraphs permitted on DU when referencing copyrighted work? ;-)

[papau]

1. I have learned 4 and no more - but I can add my own comment!

At least I think I can?

:-)

[Skinner]

12. Yes, you can comment as much as you like. (nt)

[drdigi420]

19. as long as you follow the new arbitrary rules

in other words, dont spark any heated debates

[Vitruvius]

46. And the comment can briefly summarize other material you'd LIKE to

include (if there were no copyright limits).

The ideal is to write a "TEASER" that entices people to click the link & read the article.

Of course, to be fair to the reader, you must be sure the article delivers on whatever teaser you choose to write.

[VermontDem2004]

2. Yes I know it's 4 but at times I go up to 6 (no more then 6 though)

Sorry, I do respect the rules and try to abide by them as much as possible.

[w4rma]

5. When the "paragraph" is 1 sentence long, I sometimes do that, also. (n/t)

[VermontDem2004]

7. Me too

Alot of paragraphs that I do post happen to have 1 or 2 sentance paragraphs. Some articles have nothing but 1 or 2 sentance paragraphs. Like you I think that is the only time I go up to 6 paragraphs is when there are articles like that.

[Snellius]

55. Yes, sometimes you have to

Sometimes, even when trying to keep it short, you need more than 4 grafs to convey the story, especially with copy that uses single-sentences. It would make more sense to go by word count but I know that's impossible. The rule I try to use is whether or not its essential or extraneous to the basic who, what, when, where, and why.

[Skinner]

14. We generally allow a few extra paragraphs if they're short.

Like, one sentence each.

[Woodstock]

47. that's good to know

some AP stories/Yahoo stories are one sentence per paragraph - it's a killer to pick just 4 sentences to whet peoples' appetites

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Four

At least last time i checked...

[theivoryqueen]

4. good to know

Sorry about previous infractions!

[slackmaster]

6. I once quoted an entire article because it had only 4 paragraphs

Really short ones, too.

It would have been impossible IMO for me to have quoted less than the whole thing without losing relevant information about the sense.

I hope I didn't screw the pooch. If so, I am very sorry.

[drdigi420]

9. well, at least you didnt insult the christians

that will get your topic locked here

[Skinner]

18. That's fine.

We use the four-paragraph rule, even for very short articles. We think it is easier for our members to follow the rules if you have a clear guideline.

[drdigi420]

8. If this was the only rule

It would ve easier to follow.

But since the arbitrary insertion of the stifling new rules, it gets confusing.

Topics get locked so much now. I guess I'm glad the little lock icon shows up, at least it keeps me from reading topics that have been censored. Wait, no it just lets me know that another lame rule has been violated and the discussion shut down as punishment, not just to the poster, but to all those that might want to participate in th poster's discussion.

Seems like it would be MUCH simpler and MUCH more fair to just let the easily offended skip topics THEY find offensive and let the rest of us use our intellect.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

33. If the rest of us used our intellect in the first place the rules would

have never come about.

[SOteric]

40. I don't understand

your use of the word 'arbitrary.' The new rules were requested, voted upon, and overwhelmingly passed by a 2 to 1 margin. :shrug:

Regardless, the rules regarding copyrighted material were not amoung the new rules, they are a part of the existing rules that have been a canon for posting at DU since long before I came to these boards.

[seemslikeadream]

10. Is there a problem with continuing an article

in another post?

[Skinner]

15. Generally no.

If the purpose is to get around our copyright rules and post more of the article, then no, it is not allowed.

But if there is a clear reason for picking out a specific paragraph, then we will allow it.

[janekat]

11. Ya gave the answer away!!!

I know it's 4 - but sometimes it very, very hard to only post four paragraphs.

[Booberdawg]

20. LOL! Well

It's 4, or 3 or 4, so it's hard to say what the maximum would be. :D

I just took a WILD guess and voted for 4.

[Tinoire]

21. I know it's 4 but sometimes post a wee, wee bit more if

some of the paragraphs are pure quotes since my reasoning is that quotes aren't copyrighted

or

it's an extemely long article in which case I might hit 5, even 6.

I do have a question about interviews. How copywrited are the pure Q & A?


Thanks

[Skinner]

28. If you're getting your pure Q&A from a copyrighted source

then you need to respect copyright.

[Code_Name_D]

49. Another for-instance.

About some time ago, I posted sevral spoofs of articels along a simler vain of Mystory Science Theater 2000. The intire articel was posted, however, it was broken up by reguler "interuptions" as other voices would mock the articel.

Even though the articel was copyrighted, I think that this is still aloued withen copy-right law under fair use & paridy.

Your thoughts on this? Or should I refraine from this in the fucher?

[Bossy Monkey]

51. Can't answer officially for Skinner, but copyright is copyright

and 4 paragraphs means 4 paragraphs. You can parody all day long, but you can only quote up to 4 paragraphs, whether you break them up or not.

Just post the link to the original article and a few representative paragraphs, followed by your parody. If folks have difficulty following your satire, they can always follow the link to read the original article.

[BrotherBuzz]

22. I answered the quiz correctly!

I know the rule, I use it, and I like it, but what would happen if someone pasted an entire article into one humongous unreadable paragraph, circumventing the DU rule but violating the copyright laws?

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. What about lists

for example a list of the names of those KIA in Iraq in a month?

Second question, what about speeches and transcripts from government/official websites? It is my understanding that copyright laws do not apply to information posted by the government, since we, the people, pay for it with our taxes?

[Skinner]

29. If it's from a copyrighted source

then you need to follow the rules.

If the source is not copyrighted, then you should specifically explain that the source is not copyrighted and you believe it is okay to post in its entirety. The mods will decide how to deal with it.

[goobergunch]

56. For instance, the Congressional Record IS public domain

The public proceedings of each House of Congress, as reported by the Official Reporters thereof, are printed pursuant to directions of the Joint Committee on Printing as authorized by appropriate provisions of Title 44, United States Code, and published for each day that one or both Houses are in session, excepting very infrequent instances when two or more unusually small consecutive issues are printed at one time. ¶ Public access to the Congressional Record is available online through GPO Access, a service of the Government Printing Office, free of charge to the user. The online database is updated each day the Congressional Record is published. The database includes both text and graphics from the beginning of the 103d Congress, 2d session (January 1994) forward. It is available on the Wide Area Information Server (WAIS) through the Internet and via asynchronous dial-in. Internet users can access the database by using the World Wide Web; the Superintendent of Documents home page address is http://www.access.gpo.gov/suldocs, by using local WAIS client software or by telnet to swais.access.gpo.gov, then login as guest (no password required). Dial-in users should use communications software and modem to call (202) 512–1661; type swais, then login as guest (no password required). For general information about GPO Access, contact the GPO Access User Support Team by sending Internet e-mail to [e-mail], or a fax to (202) 512–1262; or by calling Toll Free 1–888–293–6498 or (202) 512–1530 between 7 a.m. and 5 p.m. Eastern time, Monday through Friday, except for Federal holidays. ¶ The Congressional Record paper and 24x microfiche will be furnished by mail to subscribers, free of postage, at the following prices: paper edition, $217.00 for six months, $434.00 per year, or purchased for $6.00 per issue, payable in advance; microfiche edition, $141.00 per year, or purchased for $1.50 per issue payable in advance. The semimonthly Congressional Record Index may be purchased for the same per issue prices. Mail orders to: Superintendent of Documents, P.O. Box 371954, Pittsburgh, PA 15250–7954, or phone orders to (202) 512–1800, or fax to (202) 512–2250. Remit check or money order, made payable to the Superintendent of Documents, or use VISA, MasterCard, Discover, or GPO Deposit Account. ¶ Following each session of Congress, the daily Congressional Record is revised, printed, permanently bound and sold by the Superintendent of Documents in individual parts or by sets. ¶ With the exception of copyrighted articles, there are no restrictions on the republication of material from the Congressional Record.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/su_docs/aces/digest.pdf (last page)

[Rose Siding]

24. OK, 4- I know but what if

some lazy ass reporter decides that EVERY *sentence* written is a pp?

I do the paragraphs in my head or O8) fix the error for them. Problem?

[newyawker99]

25. kick

:kick:

[nolabels]

26. What about graphics, pictures and logos

I always try to include a link into anything I put in that wasn't a result of my typing fingers. I put links many for all kinds of reasons, is this a good idea?

I would think most of the DUers who have been here for awhile would ignore 99.9% of them. But I am just thinking maybe somebody might stumble on this site at one time or another and get curious why people think the way they do here.

I don't think this is homogenous group that comes here or that everybody thinks a certain way, but just in case that one person comes here they might need a reference from some where.

[Skinner]

30. You should indicate the source when including graphics.

And you should also get permission of the website hosting the image.

[nolabels]

31. Thanks for the info

:kick:

[Woodstock]

48. is there a way to just post a link to an image

the old forum you could do that with an extra & I think at the end with some words, or something like that

[Andy_Stephenson]

32. Gosh Skinner that was easy enuf

you gave us the answer.

:hi:

[TreasonousBastard]

34. Methinks a large part of the problem...

is that few people fully understand copyright and the concepts of "fair use" or the ownership of intellectual property. The latest rounds of Federal law on copyright don't make things much easier. Thank you, Sonny Bono, for your contribution to Disney's profits.

It's not just here on DU. Even on writer's groups, where they certainly should know better, I've seen people just go ahead and post entire articles without attribution. They are usually advised promptly of their error. Occasionally by the copyright holder!

There is also that growing contingent that doesn't believe in copyright at all-- if it's out there, it should be available to all. According to some people, because we are able to copy and paste we should be allowed to.

Curiously, college students who own the rights to their own papers see nothing wrong with music sharing. Confusion is rampant, and we will see a lot of oxen gored before it settles down, if it ever does.

[newyawker99]

35. kick

[ZenLefty]

36. Free republic holds that position

Even after that million dollar lawsuit, they *still* post articles in their entirety, being of the opinion that there is nothing ethically wrong with it.

Morans indeed. :dunce:

[TreasonousBastard]

37. Coincidentally...

questions of fair use and derivative works just popped up on a librarians' list I'm on.

The Copyright Office's official take on the matter:

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html

It should be noted that one does NOT have to register a work with the copyright office for the copyright to exist. It just makes it easier to sue for infringements. Sometimes.

I've dug around through Nolo, Findlaw, and other sites in the past and there's far more information than anyone but a lawyer can handle on all of this.

Bottom line-- don't copy, or prepare for the consequences.

(As FR has found out- hehe)

[MrMonk]

50. The "Sonny Bono" Copyright Act

was named *after* his death. I don't think he was even a sponsor.

[Clete]

38. Some articles are short.

In that case I only post a paragraph or even a sentence with the link.

[goobergunch]

39. Four, unless the article is shorter

For example, I posted the following in P/C:

<snip>

In the new poll, 47% of likely voters say they would definitely vote for him for president in 2004.

Twenty-nine percent say they'd definitely vote for someone else and the rest say they'd consider someone else.

http://www.wtvw.com/Global/story.asp?S=1497496&nav=7CPEIjtV

[Feanorcurufinwe]

41. I've been assuming that campaign materials

are not under copyright. Since the campaigns obviously want their message spread as far and wide as possible.

(That is, actually material generated by a campaign, as opposed to news articles, etc. on a campaign website)

[newyawker99]

42. kick

[Skinner]

44. Campaign press releases are intended for distribution.

I think the campaigns that put them out would be perfectly happy to see them copied in their entirety on DU.

[SOteric]

43. Kickity

:kick:

[MrPrax]

45. But if you delete the TABs!!!

Then it's like one paragraph!!!...
then just add your name to the bottom and your Pulitizer will be in the mail...

A Loophole!!!
Take that copyright holders!!!!

[screembloodymurder]

52. How do you set up a poll?

Are there any instructions?

[goobergunch]

57. Go to the top of the forum...

then press the "Poll" button right next to the "Post" button.

[Capn Sunshine]

53. whatever I do, I sleep peacefully at night

because Skinner is on the case 24/7
Thanks Man.
Love YOU
mean it.

[mumon]

54. Would it help if when posting NON-copyrighted material

it be labelled as such?

There's lots of that stuff too; the other day I posted (with attribution) a transcript of a trial, e.g..

[newyawker99]

58. kick