Conflicting stories about the Dean-Gephardt incident

[ModerateMiddle]

We've been discussing this now since it was reported, what? Yesterday? How did it happen?

From Mike Glover of the AP:

The incident occurred during a Gephardt speech at a Des Moines senior center Tuesday. Hunter Allen, recording the speech for the Dean campaign, said one Gephardt staffer grabbed him by the shoulder and pulled him out of the crowd. A second staffer pushed him out the door.

"The one who was pushing me out was grabbing my arm, and at other points, he physically shoved me." Allen said, adding that the pair swore at him and used a derogatory slur. "I was in shock at being treated that way."

http://customwire.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEAN_GEPHARDT?SITE=NCGRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

According to the Des Moines Register:

Dean staffers say an openly gay campaign worker was pushed by Gephardt's Iowa campaign manager and called a "faggot" by someone else on Gephardt's national staff. The confrontations allegedly occurred Tuesday afternoon, following Gephardt's speech on health care at an east-side senior center.

Gephardt's spokesman denied that anyone from the candidate's staff used that word.

snip--

What happened next is disputed among the people involved. Reporters saw Allen standing and talking on his cellular phone, near the front of the senior citizen center, while Gephardt spoke. Allen said he received a call and tried to be "quiet and discreet," but that he was ushered into the foyer and rebuked by John Lapp, Gephardt's campaign manager in Iowa.

Allen said he apologized and was allowed to return.

Gephardt staffers told a different story. "When approached about his disruptive behavior, he became very belligerent," Smith said. "They had been sending people without incident for months. Clearly this was something else. This was a dirty trick."

http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/22630305.html

According to The Note:

From ABC News' Gephardt campaign reporter Sally Hawkins:

In the middle of Gephardt's speech at an Iowa senior center, Hunter Allen, the Dean tracker, began talking loudly on his cell phone and reporting what Gephardt had just said about Dean in his speech.

John Lapp, Gephardt's Iowa campaign director, asked him to leave telling him he was being rude since the speech was still going on. Allen left, but returned after the speech was over. During the Gephardt Q&A, Allen tried to get in on the media scrum and he walked around the periphery of the group, trying to find a spot. He finally went right behind Gephardt and tried to stick his arm in the pack to record. Both Lapp and Mike Kelley appeared behind Gephardt and begin talking to Allen. Lapp held Allen's arm in an effort to guide him toward the door. Kelley was looking on. They exchanged words and their body language was heated.

The argument got louder and louder. Allen argued back that he should be allowed to stay and denied doing anything wrong.

After presser, Lapp and Hunter had a heated exchange (transcript below).

Lapp: "You have … got to behave yourself at these meetings or you're not going to be able to come. OK?"

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/TheNote/TheNote.html

I have to wonder if the description of what happened as described by the ABC reporter was the more accurate?

[sangh0]

1. What if Trippi

is lying about the "Faggot" remark? Certain things seem to be corroborated, but there is no corroboration for the slur.

1) Hunter was at the speech
2) He was talking on the phone while Gephardt spoke
3) He was asked to leave the area
4) It was an area reserved for the media
5) He did leave
6) He did return
7) He did argue with Gephardt staffers

[w4rma]

2. There's no collaboration for any of it, but I tend to believe it *all*

happened. The story is too precise for it to be made up and Allen even talks about how Allen was on the phone during Gep's speech (If he's making it up, why say anything bad about himself?).

I tend to believe that it all happened, including the "fag" part. But I don't really care about any of it. Allen shouldn't have been on the phone (but he did act properly and left when told, IMHO) and Gep's guys shouldn't have called him a "faggot".

[Hawkeye-X]

3. Look sangh0

You're *VERY* close to being on my ignore list until the nominations are over.

Trippi has addressed this on the blog.

Care to see it? No? Oh well, I will show it to you anyway:

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002041.html

Hawkeye-X

[sangh0]

6. Boy, that really put a scare into me!

not

[ModerateMiddle]

8. Really

I have seen people "threaten" others with "ignore" before, and I think "WTF?" Ignore is for one's own personal preferences. I mean, who gives a flying anything whether someone else puts them on ignore?

[sangh0]

10. I care

I prefer being on ignore for posters like that.

[ModerateMiddle]

7. I won't go so far

as to allege that Trippi is lying. If there is any distortion in the stories, I would expect that it comes from the guy who said he was slurred... he is the one who told the story to the Dean campaign, and they reacted to that - my guess.

Whether it's true or not - I don't know. I lend lots of credibility to the campaign reporter who said that the guy was up front in the crowd listening to the speech and on the phone - LOUDLY - to his own campaign saying "Do you know what Gephardt just said about Dean?!?!" (paraphrased).

That descriptions certainly conflicts with Allen's description of how he "wasn't sure it would be ok" to take a phone call, and he crunched down and quietly and quickly got off the phone.

[sangh0]

11. Neither do I

I asked "what if". I was wondering how those who assumed Gephardts' staff was at fault would react if it came out that Trippi was being dishonest.

[Ficus]

4. I wasn't there but

Things are going to get even uglier here in the Hawkeye state.

Gephardt is coming out of nowhere here, and Dean's campaign has lost a lot of momentum. The buttload of mail I get from Gephardt is mostly anti-bush, not anti-dean, as some people have asserted.

Part of the described problem comes from the totally different kind of support that those two candidates draw. Gephardt has lots of the old school labor union types, Dean has a lot of the younger and more energized group.

These people can really irritate some of the other candidates' supporters. Think of certain Dean DU posters but just in your face. (I know not all of them...blah blah, I know I know)

Not to stereotype all union guys in Iowa, but I definitley hear far more anti-gay talk coming from union people than any other regularly-voting Democratic constituent group. I have nothing but the most respect for the labor movement and have family members who work and belong to unions.

and for anyone wondering, I don't support either candidate, so I'll just sit back and watch the sparks fly!

:dem: :dem:

[Hep]

12. Wha??

Gephardt is coming out of nowhere here, and Dean's campaign has lost a lot of momentum. The buttload of mail I get from Gephardt is mostly anti-bush, not anti-dean, as some people have asserted.\

Dean gets endorsed by TWO unions and he's losing momentum in Iowa to Gephardt who was the predicted front runner there? MmmmmK.

And if Gep is so antiBush, why isn't there a Bushfacts.com sponsored by the Gep campaign instead of Deanfacts?

Not to stereotype all union guys in Iowa, but I definitley hear far more anti-gay talk coming from union people than any other regularly-voting Democratic constituent group. I have nothing but the most respect for the labor movement and have family members who work and belong to unions.

Maybe you have, which makes it all the more strange that Dean won the Wellstone award, has two big Union endorsements and a bigger one on the way despite his metrosexuality.

[Ficus]

14. I live here

and I'd say that I've seen Gephardt's momentum gain. This summer I would have said Gephardt might as well give up. Dean was running away with it. Not anymore. Gephardt is now tied with Dean. I call that gaining momentum. And those weren't Iowa unions, were they? I think Gep has almost all of those. And I still think Dean will win Iowa. MmmmmK?

And I am just talking about the mail I get. It's all got pictures of GW on it, not Dean. The contents are mostly about Bush. A little about Dean. Something about Dean's support for NAFTA.

And I still resent Dean using that "Democratic wing" line. Sorry, Dean is NO Paul Wellstone, award or not.

But, I really don't care about Gep or Howard - I like that crazy Dennis Kucinich.

:dem: :dem:

[Hep]

15. whatever you say

and I'd say that I've seen Gephardt's momentum gain. This summer I would have said Gephardt might as well give up. Dean was running away with it. Not anymore. Gephardt is now tied with Dean. I call that gaining momentum. And those weren't Iowa unions, were they? I think Gep has almost all of those. And I still think Dean will win Iowa. MmmmmK?

I don't doubt that you live there, but damn, I don't know you. You could be basing your observation on your big toe twitching for all I know.

And I am just talking about the mail I get. It's all got pictures of GW on it, not Dean. The contents are mostly about Bush. A little about Dean. Something about Dean's support for NAFTA.

I'm sure it's very informative. But I didn't doubt that he would have some misleading semiquote from him about a given issue. It was either NAFTA or the medicare lie or the social scurity lie. BEcause apparently, Gephardt thinks that little of the people of Iowa.

And I still resent Dean using that "Democratic wing" line. Sorry, Dean is NO Paul Wellstone, award or not.

Dean knows he's no wellstone. But he represents me.

[Ficus]

16. just my observations...

I don't doubt that you live there, but damn, I don't know you. You could be basing your observation on your big toe twitching for all I know.

Should have been more clear. I've been basing my observations from political gatherings, talking to other Democrats, politicians, and so on and so forth, not to mention the local press and letters to the editor, etc. Much how I'm sure you gauge your thoughts on your political atmosphere in your state. The "buzz" for lack of a better term.

I'm sure it's very informative. But I didn't doubt that he would have some misleading semiquote from him about a given issue. It was either NAFTA or the medicare lie or the social scurity lie. BEcause apparently, Gephardt thinks that little of the people of Iowa.

Hey Dean and Gephardt both are liars. So his mail can go in my trash just like Dean's.

Dean knows he's no wellstone. But he represents me.
Could have fooled me when I heard him speak in January and Febuary to the Dem caucus in the Iowa Senate...but I'm sure it was just more convienent for him to be liberal then.

:dem: :dem:

[Hep]

19. R to the izzock

Should have been more clear. I've been basing my observations from political gatherings, talking to other Democrats, politicians, and so on and so forth, not to mention the local press and letters to the editor, etc. Much how I'm sure you gauge your thoughts on your political atmosphere in your state. The "buzz" for lack of a better term.

That's cool.

Hey Dean and Gephardt both are liars. So his mail can go in my trash just like Dean's.

I wish someone could tell me what Dean's lied about. I see the claim all the time, but when I ask for more info, no one replies. Or they claim it's all in some mysterious thread that only reappears every third Tuesday in Smarch.

Could have fooled me when I heard him speak in January and Febuary to the Dem caucus in the Iowa Senate...but I'm sure it was just more convienent for him to be liberal then.

I practically know his stump speech by heart. Which part of it irked you?

[Ficus]

21. Dean and Gep

I practically know his stump speech by heart. Which part of it irked you?

Actually, I used to like Dean a lot. He's tied for my #2 candidate. And I assume I'll have a good chance to end up caucusing for him since I wonder if DK will get his 15% at my caucus site. But who knows.

I can't remember this speech by heart of course, however, I remember him mentioning PW and using that Democratic Wing line multipule times. It wasn't quite so much of a "stump speech" since he was speaking to the Iowa Senate Dems, not so much the rest of us in the room. I just remember himself portraying himself as being far more left than he is now in his speeches and things.

and Dean lies...

I remember Dean making false statements about "being the only white candidate to talk about blacks to other whites" and "I have never favored a Social Security retirement age of 70 nor do I favor one of 68." when on Meet the Press he said he'd still entertain an increase to 68. And in 1995 he said 70, but one thing I hate about gep's attacks are that they all are from about 10 years ago. The Meet the Press was in June or July. And REPEATED claims that he was the only candidate to oppose the war.

:dem: :dem:

[janekat]

5. This is classic Chicago/Daley politics - Trippi's from Illinois

I said earlier - this sounds like it's from the Chicago political handbook. He's working with the Daleys. This is SO classic Daley/Chicago politics. I ougtha know - I worked on Daley's campaign.

[redqueen]

17. Ayup.

Nothing more to be said, really.

Unless someone with one of those -- what was it, 7? -- cameras or boom mikes caught it, or one of the 20 journalists standing nearby heard it.

For some reason, I really doubt any material proof will ever surface.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

9. WOOOOW!!?!

I think Gebphardt or Dean ought to drop
out of the race because of this terrible
incident. Something ought to be. The town
is too big for either of this terrible
thing at this point. I have never heard
of a thing like this and I hope it is not
swerpt under the rug of marching events as
so many other things half as awful has.

[madfloridian]

13. Chuckle......

}(

[Cha]

20. A-S always gets to the heart of the matter!

}(

[hlthe2b]

18. How about 'Dean v Gephardt campaign staff' issue....

since neither Dean nor Gehardt are actually involved?