Kerry supporters, one person's thoughts on Kerry.

[frank frankly]

Over the past two weeks, I have realized that I like John Kerry again...but first, some explanation.

I've been behind Dean since February. I believe his unapologetic and appropriate anger towards what I knew to be a bullshit and ultimately doomed invasion in Iraq, his concise opposition to BushCo and fundamentalists, and his connection to people via the Internet, have all changed the spectrum of debate within the candidates for the Democratic Party. He was proof that Bush-Lite will not excite the base, and that a heated and empassioned repudiation of their evil and unAmerican colonialism was essential for success. No matter if Dean wins or not, to me he is historical.

My first heavy exposure to Kerry was AFTER I had done serious research on Skull & Bones (which I began after Dubya was elected.) I was one of those people who liked Kerry since 2000, and so I was shocked to find out later that Kerry had been a member, and then I was incredibly disappointed (not to be understated) when he voted for the war resolution. It was then I decided he was not for me. I know a handful of people who saw their initial and enthusiastic support for Kerry evaporate completely after the vote. These were people who had been for him since the 2000 debacle, and people who are activists. I still don't like Skull and Bones and never will, and I still don't like his vote on the war. But we must win, and no candidate is perfect, and I had previously thought that he would be a wonderful President, one of the best ever. I was just so disappointed in his vote...enough on that.

*DISCLAIMER: None of this ever meant I would not vote for him against Bush. In fact, even then, I knew that I would do everything I could to help if he won the nomination.*

Since then, I have seen his debate performances improve greatly. I have taken time to read or view his recent one-on-one interviews, which are fantastic and getting better and more forceful. I've re-researched his environmental positions and he's the best on that I've read. I've reread the history of his Vietnam experience, which I always found amazing and inspirational. It is beautiful to hear him speak on these issues and it is clear he would destroy Bush on every issue. It is clear he would represent many progressive ideals and programs.

I continue to support Dean, but I like Kerry again, too. And I like Clark a great, great deal. To me, it will come down to who takes care of BBV, who nails Bush on 9/11, and who gets us out of Iraq the fastest with a plan that is repeated loudly and often.

I guess my point is that I like John Kerry again. And maybe, if he jumps on the above issues, I will be passionate about him again to vote Kerry in the primaries.

Thanks! And any thoughts are appreciated!

[poskonig]

1. Kerry has most of Dean and Clark's strengths

without their weaknesses. I'm coming around to viewing Kerry as the best weapon in our arsenal, despite the fact his supporters are complete boneheads.

[frank frankly]

2. hey, some of his supporters here have actually helped me like him again

every candidate has supporters who get too rude and petty, but this is big history and we are in big trouble. I understand people's fear and outrage driven indignation, and I've been there myself many times.

I was hoping for a positive, up-with-democrats thread here...

[La_Serpiente]

7. I cannot believe

that Kerry supporters are not even responding to this thread

This is their opportunity to answer some of our concerns.

[WindRavenX]

8. Not all of us are boneheads

We're working very hard for the canidate we deem to have the best chance at winning in 2004...there have been some boobs on DU, but most Kerry supporters in person are very humble and nice people. I've met a lot of them, being in Boston :hi:

[frank frankly]

41. correct, windravenx

:kick:

[DrFunkenstein]

42. I'm Much Nicer On DU

In person I'm a real jerk.

<>

Is one of these people a little...taller...than the rest?

[blm]

15. Good thing I held that warm spot for you, posko....

even if you consider me one of the boneheads. ;)))

I fight the false perceptions of Kerry as vociferously as I did those about Al Gore in 2000. I truly did not want to see another great Democrat get torn down for all the wrong reasons. And I really never expected that most of those false perceptions would come from within the party. Thus my earnest defense.

[KC21304]

19. Blm, did you happen to read Camile Paglia in Salon yesterday ?

She is a weird one. Her thoughts on Iraq were right on I think, but her reasons for not liking Clark and being disappointed in Kerry were just plain silly for someone supposed to be so intelligent. I will look for it and get back to you if you havent' seen it.



Edit to add link http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2003/10/29/paglia/index.html

[blm]

20. She's an articulate fraud, imo.

Clever, but not deeply intelligent.

[MessiahRp]

53. Bonehead...moi...

I am a Kerry Supporter and will be officially working for his campaign here in Wisconsin... am I a bonehead? I don't think that's a fair description at all.

Rp

[xray s]

3. I have been floating down the same river as you.

I think all those three could be great candidates, as well as John Edwards. Lately I am leaning back towards Kerry, because his progressive bona fides are solid.

I also hope Dennis Kucinich stays in the race, because his stand on National Health Insurance is the right issue at the right time. The medical profession, businesses large and small and the public are all open to this idea; Medicare available to all citizens. Dennis has to stay in to keep this alive.

I do not know why the entire Dem party doesn't take this up in a bold way (though I have my suspicions)...

[frank frankly]

4. yes, I love Kucinich, too

should have mentioned that...

[La_Serpiente]

6. I think Kucinich's

idea of making the Dept. of Peace should be in the Democratic platform next year. In fact, PEACE SHOULD BE one of the main themes during the campaign.

[frank frankly]

36. you got that right

I hope the best ideas in general get assimilated into the platform.

[La_Serpiente]

5. I have had the same concerns about you also

There are some posistions of Dean that really have me concerned. All of Dean's issues are fine with me. However, the one that concerns me the most is his close relationship with AIPAC.

Now I know that Kerry is Jewish, but so is Krugman. And all the Jews I know are nothing like Wolfowitz and the rest of the cabal.

With so many AIPAC people around Dean, would Dean succumb to the same demise of Bush and just let his advisors tell him to do? I don't think Dean is even near Bush's level of intelligence nor even close to his passiveness. However, will he only listen to these AIPAC people? What about the people in APN?

And here is what concerns me about Dean. Dean really has no foreign policy experience. Now, I know one could use the argument that, "Well, there were other governors that were president."

However, in this post-9/11 world, I don't think we need someone who is keen on domestic policy. They also need to be wise on foreign policy. This is a very unique and special time in America's history and we must repatch the international framework and work better with other countries so that anti-Americanism is decreased.

I have no doubt in my mind that Dean would do a good job fixing foreign policy. I mean, the main "concern" from other countries are Bush and the neo-cons. However, that is mostly amongst industrialized countries. Howabout rising anti-americanism in developing and 3rd world countries? That is definetly a concern we cannot ignore and I think Kerry could do a better job when it comes to that.

What really ticked me off about Kerry was when he voted for the resolution. It made me furious that he would do something like that. In a sense, I had this blind rage that just pissed me off to the core.

It has taken awhile for that rage to settle, and now, I am looking at the world through a different perspective. In fact, I realized that that was the ONLY reason that I was going to Dean. I don't know why Kerry and Gephardt are pulling this Medicare crap. If Kerry wants to win over Dean supporters and win in New Hampshire, he is going to have to go against him on the war.

However, I am not letting Kerry off the hook just yet. I skimmed through his book, and I went straight to the section on foreign policy. He had disagreements with the French and the Germans. But I viewed them as "legitimate" disagreements as oppose to the blind Euro-bashing amongst the Repukes.

Although he touched upon that subject, he STILL didn't explain why he voted for the resolution NOR did he even mention the wall. This is the MAIN reason so many people were attracted to Dean.

Now, I was in the chatroom with Joe Wilson the other day, and I liked what he said about Kerry. Plus, he didn't say anything bad about Dean and actually welcomed him to the debate.

NEVERTHELESS, I don't want to hear what Wilson's reasons about Kerry's war vote. I want to hear what KERRY is saying from HIS OWN MOUTH!!! Kerry needs to explain his vote in its entirety. I don't want to read news articles, I don't wan prominent people explaining Kerry's posistion, I want to hear Kerry's posistion. If Kerry wants to explain himself, he should put a video of himself explaining the war vote on his website.

In conclusion, I must also show respect for Howard Dean. With his loudmouth, his greatest contribution to this nation is that he made dissent possible and tried to hold the Democratic party accountable for its own actions.

[WindRavenX]

9. Kerry isn't Jewish!

He's Catholic. New England style.
I've had some problems Kerry voting for the Iraq resolution...but I think that he's come to see that is was a HUGE mistake. In office, I trust him not to make the same mistake.

[La_Serpiente]

10. yes he is

he just found out in 1997 that he was Jewish. I'll look for the statement. Oh, I mean Jewish in ethnicity.

Here is the link:

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030207/us02.shtml

Two of Kerry's grandparents were Jewish, it turns out.

Kerry, who is a practicing Catholic, said he has known for 15 years that his paternal grandmother was Jewish, but had unsuccessfully searched for news of his paternal grandfather's roots.

However, a genealogist hired by the Boston Globe found that Kerry's grandfather was born to a Jewish family in a small town in the Czech Republic.

"This is incredible stuff," Kerry told the Globe. "I think it is more than interesting. It is a revelation."

The records show that his grandfather, Frederick Kerry, was born as Fritz Kohn. He changed his name to Kerry in 1902, immigrated to the United States in 1905 -- and committed suicide in a Boston hotel in 1921.

[WindRavenX]

11. Are you sure?

You may be confusing this with Clark, who I believe was reported to come from a long line of Rabbis.
I'm almost positive that Kerry isn't Jewish in blood or in beliefs...but if I'm wrong, please call me on it! :hi:

[La_Serpiente]

12. Sorry

I don't mean to be blunt or "gotcha". It is just that I remember reading about it somewhere. I posted it in the thread above.

But he is a Roman Catholic Jew. However, he is Jewish in ethnicity.

[WindRavenX]

13. Mea culpa!

A Roman Catholic Jew.
I think my head is going to explode...the GOP pigs should have fun with that :(
He still gets my vote- no matter what his heritage is :hi:

[blm]

14. His grandfather was Jewish, exactly as posted above.

He committed suicide and not many in Kerry's family knew about it or talked about it. I think it was easier for him to be more open about it after his mother died, since the suicide was most certainly a painful family matter that was rarely discussed.

[KC21304]

18. I think Kerry has explained his war vote clearly many times.

I believe he did a good job on Hardball last week, and also on Imus this week. I don't know if transcripts of these shows are available.

I wish he could bring himself to say that knowing what he knows now he wishes he wouldn't have voted the way he did, but I think he believes that would open him up to ridicule like George Romney was when he said he was brainwashed.

I'm thrilled to see Kerry getting some returning to the fold.

[quaker bill]

30. I believe he has as well

I just disagree with the rationale. I also find it completely incomprehensible that Mr. Kerry believed he was actually dealing with an administration that would act in the sort of good faith he describes.

If he honestly believes or believed in the bovine excrement that Bush*, Rove, and Ari were busy shoveling all over the IWR, then the man's a tad to gullible for my taste.

If he didn't believe it, then his report now that he actually expected Shrubya* to follow through and act honorably, is a tad disingenuous for my taste.

I will critique this man forever over this vote. I actually believe that privately he probably critiques himself as well. The explanation certainly seems to cause him trouble. That being aside, I like Mr. Kerry just fine, and if he gets the nod, he has my vote.

[La_Serpiente]

35. I don't

He had the opportunity to explain it in his book but he didn't.

[frank frankly]

37. I think he has explained it, and it is what it is

I don't like his explanation at all, but I am trying to get past it. Each candidate has a few striking flaws. That's just reality.

I just want a good president, and right now that's going to be the most effective fighter. Kerry is back on my radar.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Refreshing

I know I am probably one of those who is being referred to as a 'bonehead' in this thread so I hesitated to answer, but I want to thank you for your post.
I've been a longtime fan of Kerry's and I shared your disappointment with his resolution vote. It's certainly not what I would have done and I found it incomprehensible at the time. I understand it more now, although I still don't agree with it. The bottom line for me is really, what would have happened if Kerry had been President since 2000, and I have no doubt, we wouldn't be in this mess. (And we wouldn't have let Osama escape from Tora Bora.) The other thing that shocked and amazed me was his vote for the Patriot Act. But considering the only Senator to vote against was Feingold, the remarks of Dean and others at the time, I'll forgive that (God help us though, if the sunset provisions don't take effect).

So there are two things that disheartened me, but so much else has inspired me -- I liked Kerry based on speeches and comments I'd heard but I didn't know his true record till I became active here in June. I knew he'd been a war hero - the press always mentions it - but I didn't know that he was also an anti-war hero. I knew he was a liberal - but I didn't know that he had such a common-sense gun position (I've got several myself). I also learned about his environmental record, and how could you not be impressed? What I find even more impressive is the way he ties together the environment, national security, alternative energy, and the economy with policies that form a coherent whole. I truly believe he will be a great President.

I would like to say a few words about Dean. I have been accused of being a 'Dean-basher'. Well in fact, I knew very little about Dean before I came to DU. Just the headline: 'anti-war governor from Vermont'. Which sounded great. He was definately my number two pick at first. But as I learned more about Dean, far from being inspired, I became more troubled. I won't go into any of it here - I don't want this to turn into another flamefest - but there are a number of things that make me very uncomfortable. Now there was another Democratic politician recently who did not inspire much confidence in me when he was in the primary race for the nomination, despite his popularity - Bill Clinton. I still have mixed feelings about Clinton but I had no problem enthusiastically supporting him once he got the nod. And if the nomination goes to Dean, I'll support him as enthusiastically as I did old Bill.



GO DEMS!

[Hippo_Tron]

17. Did Kerry have some significance in the Gore campaign? n/t

[KC21304]

21. From what I understand Kerry was very much in the running

for VP in 2000. I think he joked about it recently.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Well the joke when Al Gore was on SNL

Was that it was between Edwards, Kerry, and Lieberman. Lieberman of course took the words right out of Gore's mouth about the lockbox theory and so he got picked. I wasn't sure if this was serious at all, or if they just picked Kerry or Edwards randomly.

[blm]

26. No, that was Al's actual short list....

but, he chose Lieberman to counter the family values argument. That was kinda sad. But....he still should be president today, no doubt about that.

btw...Bob Graham was on Al's shortlist, too.

[dsc]

22. Kerry has a lot of great qualities

and I have rarely criticised him on this board. I think his campaign has been not so well run (though it may just be that Dean's has done so well) and his rhetoric on the tax cut is very Bush lite. Both of those are great disappointments to me. That said, if he wins the nomination he will have my support no matter how many boneheads I may have to work with.

[KC21304]

25. Being that the middle class tax cut was put in on the insistance of the

Dems, why do you think it is Bush lite to want to keep it ?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. OK you two

can we have one thread without one of these arguments? lol

[dsc]

29. Please read posts and then respond

This is what I wrote:

and his rhetoric on the tax cut is very Bush lite.

Regardless of the merits of his position, which I admit I don't like, it is his rhetoric which I criticised. He is using the exact same bogus arguments to justify his position as Bush did to justify his. He takes atypical people and pretends they are typical thus vastly overstating the benefits and the number of beneficiaries of those cuts. That is what I called Bush lite.

[KC21304]

31. Aye, Aye, Sir.

[dsc]

34. I don't think it is too much to ask

that you not make up things when responding to posters. I didn't say what you claimed I had. I was respectful in return.

[DrFunkenstein]

38. Bush Has Been Making Kerry's Argument For Him

The main difference? I think you can figure it out - Bush's argument was complete BS because he was ignoring the people above $200,000, while Kerry's argument was legitimate because he's repealing the taxes for the people Bush ignored.

Think for a second about how that'll play out in the debates between Kerry and Bush. Can Bush suggest that Kerry wants to raise taxes on the average Joe? I don't think so! Bush will get trounced in broad daylight - and Repubes know it (which is why they always downplay Kerry).

[Octafish]

23. Sen. Kerry will clobber Bush and bring down the BFEE.

It's what he was born to do. As the Democratic nominee, John Kerry would kick the un-elected fraud’s rear end clear outta Washington in the General Election. Bush would clear out of office, too. Kerry’s got the backing of a VERY large section of the nation's political, economic, and military establishment.

Here’s why I think all Americans should back Kerry:

As President, Kerry would unite the entire country. After the divisiveness of Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2, the country needs it more than at any time since the Civil War. Starting with the Pentagon.

Kerry’s a war hero. His type has fought the Nazis before. He’ll fight them again, the group we sadly identify as the BFEE. Kerry’s got his work cut out for him and he’s going to need a lot of help from the military. This time, a bunch of the BFEE are wearing American uniforms. From what I’ve heard, the guy has the backing of a large percentage of the officer corps. They’ll let Kerry know Who among the leadership doesn’t believe in the Constitution.

Red-white-and-blue war record is why. Silver Star, Bronze Star, three Purple Hearts. Only the bravest of the brave do what he did. Only the luckiest survive. So, he’s got that, too.

Kerry would attract LIBERAL voters: That’s where he’s been as a Senator. Kerry has fought for traditional Democratic causes from Social Security, Public Education, the Environment, Health Care, Union and Workers’ Rights, Veterans’ Affairs, Urban Renewal, in no particular order but all with top importance.

Kerry would attract the MIDDLE: He has the record of doing what’s best for the American people in the Senate. Pro-Small Business; lessening impact of NAFTA; lessening the penuric grip of creditors in bankruptcy; pro-law enforcement; etc. Go to the Kerry’s website for the complete story.

Kerry would attract the CONSERVATIVE base: He’s the All-American Guy. College hockey player, LaCrosse (which is land hockey). In Congress, he’s been strong on national defense issues. Kerry said he’d do what was needed to keep America safe — economically, such as in manufacting base — and militarily, keeping America the strongest nation in the world.

On a personal level, he lives the American Family Values crowd espouses. Kerry puts his family first, his work is done in the service of the community, and he believes in patriotism. What’s wrong with that?

Personally, Kerry has gone after the Bush Organized Crime Family. And as President he said he would appoint an honest Attorney General, one who uphold the Constitution of the United States. He said he’d appoint judges who feel the same way.

Almost alone among Democrats in Congress, and alone among those running for the nomination, Kerry went after Bush, Poindexter, North and that whole Iran-Contra drug-running crowd. An informed President looking into that stuff will reveal much of what has gone wrong with America since November 22, 1963.

For the History Deprived: Kerry is on the same side as the late Danny Casolaro. The writer was investigating The Octopus — the CIA-NAZI-Big Oil-Wall Street-Military-Industrial Complex when he was suicided and embalmed within 24 hours, although against the law in West Virginia.

The one link between all of those elements of arch-criminality is named George Herbert Walker Bush. Now we’re supposed to believe his oldest son, Fredo, is running the Outfit. Riiiiiiiight!

GOOGLE October Surprise; Hinckley Bush Reagan Assassination Attempt Dinner; Iran-Contra Affair, Ollie North, drug-running Nugan Hand Bank; Savings and Loan Scandals; BCCI Iraq-Gate; BNL Banco del Lavoro Nazionale; Gulf War 1 April Glaspie for the hair-whitening details.

ENRON Energy Policy. Arthur Andersen Wall Street Drug Money Laundering. Gulf War 2 WMD. 9-11. You can be sure that those investigations would be re-opened and investigated fully under Kerry’s Attorney General, Pentagon and Congress. The thought of these and wearing prison jumpsuit orange will whiten the hair of the moron usurper.

Many DUers won’t remember the last candidate or top government official who said he wanted to after the Mafia. It wasn’t Lyndon Johnson. It certainly wasn’t J Edgar Hoover. The year was 1968. His name was Robert F. Kennedy.

Go John Kerry!

— Octafish

BTW: What's the Little Turd from Crawford ever done? Stoned drunk until age 40. Turned every business he ran into a turdpile. For four years he's done the same to the country as (p)resident.

[KC21304]

28. Just got a good start on "Fortunate Son ".

What he got away with in Texas is outrageous, criminal, perjurous,and many other adjectives I am too mad to think of right now.

[Octafish]

33. "The Family that Preys Together"

Here's an excellent overview of the criminality that is the BFEE. It was written in 1991 — the days before the Bush-bin Laden connections had been revealed. It does touch upon the role played by Jackson Stephens, the billionaire who invested in Walmart and politicians like Jimmy Carter, George Bush Sr, Bill Clinton and Duhbya.

From Covert Action Quarterly
Issue No. 41, Summer, 1992

GEORGE JR.'S BCCI CONNECTION "This is an incredible deal, unbelievable for this small company," energy analyst Charles Strain told Forbes magazine, describing the oil production sharing agreement the Harken Energy Corporation signed in January 1990 with Bahrain.

The Family That Preys Together

by Jack Colhoun

Under the terms of the deal, Harken was given the exclusive right to explore for gas and oil off the shores of the Gulf island nation. If gas or oil were found in waters near two of the world's largest gas and oil fields, Harken would have exclusive marketing and transportation rights for the energy resources. Truly an "incredible deal" for a company that had never drilled an offshore well.

Strain failed to point out, however, the one fact that puts the Harken deal in focus: George Bush, Jr., the eldest son of George and Barbara Bush of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC, is a member of Harken's board of directors, a consultant, and a stockholder in the Texas-based company. In light of this connection, the deal makes more sense. The involvement of Junior-George Walker Bush's childhood nickname-with Harken is a walking conflict of interest. His relationship to President Bush, rather than any business acumen, made him a valuable asset for Harken, the Republican Party benefactors, Middle East oil sheikhs and covert operators who played a part in Harken's Bahrain deal.

In fact, Junior's track record as an oilman is pretty dismal. He began his career in Midland, Texas, in the mid-1970s when he founded Arbusto Energy, Inc. When oil prices dropped in the early 1980s, Arbusto fell upon hard times. Junior was only rescued from business failure when his company was purchased by Spectrum 7 Energy Corporation, a small oil firm owned by William DeWitt and Mercer Reynolds. As part of the September 1984 deal, Bush became Spectrum 7's president and was given a 13.6 percent share in the company's stock. Oil prices stayed low and within two years, Spectrum 7 was in trouble.

http://mediafilter.org/caq/BushFamilyPreys.html

The Bush boys really are all crooks, as this article from 1991 documents. Going by his investigations of BCCI and Iran-Contra drug smugging, as well as his work on global terrorism, I believe Kerry knows it, too, but he can't say it as it would demean the government he, as a Senator, is a part of.

PS: After the anger cools and you get a chance, Kerryfan, please let us know what else is in "Fortunate Son." That must be a gold mine of information on our world's number one gold brick.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

32. Why I am passionate about Kerry

From my view he is so obviously the most qualified Democratic candidate, and he would so obviously make the best President of our lifetime. It is most apparent in any extemporaneous dialogue he engages in, where his tremendous depth of knowledge, experience, commitment, and maturity come shining through. The difference between him and any of the other candidates is vast.

Now why anyone thinks Kerry supporters are boneheads? I don't know, but I am more than happy to point out when one of the candidates says something boneheaded, (and it's hardly ever Kerry).

[DrFunkenstein]

39. Here's Why You Should Vote For Kerry

I'm just going to throw a couple things off the top of my head in no particular order:

1. He'll transform the "war" on terror into a international police and intelligence gathering effort between the global friends we will bust our asses to make.

2. He's been working on terrorism since the late 80's. They gave Kerry the Chair of the Committee on Terrorism after they booted him off the Iran-Contra he had singly brought about - because even Dems were afraid he would impeach Reagan!

3. His record on the environment is spectacular. And where others mouth the words that they want to revolutionize our energy agenda, Kerry has the years and years and years of experience to make it actually happen.

4. He has not accepted one penny of PAC money in any of his Senate races. That has let him go after the corporate welfare that has f-ed up our government. Kerry is not tax-and-spend. He has bad-ass plans to create an independent committee to present Congress an up or down vote to eliminate. Lot's of publicity, each Congressman's reputation on the line. I love it!

5. Of all the war stories I've heard, I'm most impressed that he went to the top military brass in Vietnam (while he was still active) to protest the extremely high numbers of civilian deaths that inevitably resulted from the policy of "free fire zones." He didn't have to. No political gain. In fact, it was likely the opposite. But he did it because he felt it was just and right. And I find that impressive.

I have a million other reasons I think Kerry is a stand up guy, but I'll leave it at five.

[frank frankly]

40. thanks, Dr.Funkenstein

good info!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

43. He's the most presidential- more than Clinton even.

Am I the only one who sees this? His intellect and knowledge of the issues are daunting.

[KC21304]

45. No you aren't. Most definately I concur.

[blm]

70. Seems many here don't WANT elegant and learned. They want bombast

to rival Rush Limbaugh and the RNC. They have brushed aside favor for nuance and deep comprehension for the bombastic rhetoric that is music to their ears.

[blm]

44. #5 was new to me.

Thanks, Doc Funk....again.

[DrFunkenstein]

50. If You Missed It

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=626343

[NewYorkerfromMass]

52. Thanks again Doc!

[KittyWampus]

46. Kerry Won The Last Debate IMO

Saying we "elect a President and not a staff" to Dean was a serious body blow.

And bringing up the Gun Issue for his closing statement and the way he followed it up later during the week... very good.

BLM once said that Kerry likes to come from behind in his campaigns and I think she's right!

I would like to see Kerry be VP for Clark so he can help the Democrats capture the Presidency foro the next 16 years!!!

Post Script: I wonder if Kerry and Clark's personalities would work well togther on a ticket.

[blm]

47. They are longtime friends, actually.

And do you notice how Clark is already aligning himself with Kerry's policies? Edwards is right there, too. I think the DNC still prefers the three of them.

[flpoljunkie]

57. IMO, they are our 3 strongest candidates to go up against Bushco.

Interesting, and perhaps revealing, to note that all three would eliminate tax cuts beginning at the same level--$200,000.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

58. 2 military guys not getting along?

Kerry/Clark would work pretty well IMHO.

[bobbieinok]

48. Kerry wins my support based on the fact that he's been around

a long time defending and supporting things I care about.

I also support Clark.

I like Kucinich (he's the only one I've given money to) but there is no way he could beat Bush.....Please note: my view of Dean and Kucinich is based on what I know about the right and the religious right; I was born and grew up in OK and have been back here for the last 10+ years.

....Kucinich supporters: your emphasis that Dennis' voice must be heard in the debates because of what he forces the others to talk about is what convinced me to donate money.

I do not think Dean has any chance at all to beat Bush. If he's the candidate the right-wing controlled media will be anti-homosexuality and democrats=homosexuals 24/7. Forget the economy, Iraq, or anything else.

[bobbieinok]

49. realistically, Kerry could not win in OK against Bush

He's 'too liberal.'

The only democratic candidate that could even have a chance against Bush in OK and other similar states is Clark.

[MessiahRp]

54. Hmm.. I keep thinking...

I keep thinking that if Clark's campaign doesn't take too much flak that Kerry could have Clark on his bill as VP candidate which would whip Bush's ass because there would be two legitimate military men there against draft dodging MIA Bush and his neocon imperialists.

Okay let's end these primaries now and run that ticket. :)

Rp

[KC21304]

56. I have been pushing Kerry/Clark here for months.

I do not want to dis Clark supporters, but I think Kerry is better at the top of the ticket.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

51. Yep, and forget about anything else when the GOP pumps it up

Kerry has the deepest set of legs to fight them. And fight them he will.

[Padraig18]

55. I don't dislike Kerry, frankly.

John Kerry has done many wonderful, good things, and has many strengths which would serve him well as President; he would be a good standard bearer for our party, and I could support him in that effort. Part of the reason i give 'Kerry' such unadulterated HELL on this board has much more to do with his most fanatical supporters, who are usually VICIOUS 'Dean bashers'; I'm not actually bashing Kerry, per se, as much as I am pointing out the poster's obvious hypocrisies, e.g., my standard "Dean 'waffles', but Kerry 'nuances'" reply to so many of the lame, vitriolic posts.

John Kerry isn't perfect, and neither is Howard Dean, but they are both well-qualified to lead this party and our Republic.

[Padraig18]

59. That certainly fell flat.

Oh, well... *sigh*

[NewYorkerfromMass]

60. Perhaps because Kerry is significantly more qualified than Dean

and that anyone would even begin to compare the two is quite irksome to the Kerry crew. What you see as bashes are not mere vitriol but rather, nakedly honest attempts to portray the solidly grounded positions of a life-long crusader for liberals as significantly more substantial than the impassioned rhetoric of a more recent convert- and one who's committment to liberal ideals is indeed quite questionable. The recent tax structure debate is no better example of that contrast.

[lastliberalintexas]

61. What a nice response to Padraig

Let's see, he said good things about Kerry and Dean, and you come back with...more of the same. :eyes:

[frank frankly]

62. kick

:kick:

[dsc]

63. Does that poster ever,

and I mean ever, say anything worth reading?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

64. so tell me this then: Why did Dean sign the civil union law out of sight?

I guess he wasn't very proud of it. Gay Pride? Not with Dean.

[blm]

65. kinda rude, dsc.

People post what they post. It''s usually what they feel.

NY from Mass was stating how HE and others FEEL. You think that's worthless, but, he has expressed aptly what many of us supporters of other candidates DO feel. If you are going to post about YOUR feelings, hurt or otherwise, I suggest you allow some room for others who specifically are discussing their feelings.

[Padraig18]

68. Thanks for the gracious response.

Were you raised by badgers, or something? :eyes:

[welshTerrier2]

66. Giving Kerry a Real Second Look

Kerry started very slowly ... actually, not slowly ... Kerry started very poorly ... defending his IWR vote knocked him way off his game ... and his campaign seemed to lack clarity ... he was great on a wide array of issues but spent a huge amount of the early campaign playing defense ... again, he was great on the issues ... except for his IWR vote ...

and Dean, in the earliest days, gave us one of the few voices of opposition ... he said what we wanted to hear ... someone on our side had to stand up to bush ... and too many in Congress, and especially in the Senate, did not do so ... activists gravitated to the only voice they could find who represented them ... and, in the early days, that was Howard Dean ...

I so hated Kerry's Iraq vote that I could not listen to anything else he said ... I had written him off completely because of it ... until lately ... the spark that had me take a second look at Kerry was his vote against the $87 billion ... to some, this was nothing but political expediency ... Kerry was behind in the polls and had to do something ... anything ... well, I know better than that ... Kerry's been my Senator for a long time ... we know him in Massachusetts ... I don't always agree with him but I do think he's a man of conscience ... his IWR vote was awful ... but give credit where credit is due ... his vote on the $87 billion was great ...

so, it was time for me to give Kerry another look ... and I like what I've been seeing ... there's a new energy in Kerry's campaign ... and I see real value in having someone with a "war veteran" line on their resume competing with bush ... I don't think military experience is a prerequisite, but, in this particular election, I see it as a real strength ...

It's unclear whether Kerry can recover from the slow start he had ... and I would make no predictions about whether he can surpass Dean or Clark, or god help us, Gephardt ... I emphatically agree with the base poster's point that Kerry warrants a second look and that he might well earn my vote in the primaries depending on his posittions and his votes over the next few months ...

DU'ers who made the early jump to Dean would be well served to clarify their positions on the issues and then make a head-to-head comparison of Dean and Kerry ... for my money, both are good candidates and the primaries are still wide open ... it would be unfortunate to allow early momentum to make the decision for the party ... we need the best candidate we can get and we should take advantage of the remaining months to ensure we've made the best possible choice ....

[JohnKleeb]

67. Interesting

I was disappointed that Kerry voted IWR and etc but I have looked at his record and vision, although Dennis Kucinich remains #1 for me, I have made Kerry my number 2 since mid summer.

[frank frankly]

69. kick

lots of good responses to this!