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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:01 AM Original message |
Biden-Lugar -- the facts. |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:06 AM Response to Original message |
1. Thank you for posting this, Eloriel |
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:08 AM Response to Original message |
2. And here, for those interested, is the guts of the IWR |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:31 AM Response to Reply #2 |
3. A bump for the truth |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:40 PM Response to Reply #3 |
86. So what's the differnce? |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:50 PM Response to Reply #86 |
88. The differences are irrelevant to me, for I opposed both |
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Cocoa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:03 PM Response to Reply #88 |
95. finally the backtrack |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:18 PM Response to Reply #95 |
98. I never said that Dean is a liberal |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:21 PM Response to Reply #98 |
99. How hypocritical!! |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:24 PM Response to Reply #99 |
102. Did you read AND understand what I wrote in post #88? |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:31 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Yes, and it's hypocritical |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:38 PM Response to Reply #103 |
108. Circular logic will get you nowhere |
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Cocoa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:36 PM Response to Reply #102 |
107. stop digging, please! |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:46 PM Response to Reply #107 |
110. Kerry obviously forgot his Vietnam lessons, I didn't. |
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dajabr (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:35 AM Response to Original message |
4. Eloriel, I know you know this but I'll say it anyway... |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:45 AM Response to Original message |
5. Thank you very much |
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Karmadillo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:55 AM Response to Reply #5 |
6. Where does Biden-Lugar require definitive proof? |
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dsc (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:04 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. He has to go to Congress with a determination |
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Karmadillo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:15 AM Response to Reply #9 |
11. We're talking about the Bush Administration, right? |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:07 PM Response to Reply #9 |
62. "I have determined that Iraq is a threat." said Bush. |
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TLM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:58 AM Response to Original message |
7. Woo Hoo! I'm thankful for you Eloriel.... |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:58 PM Response to Reply #7 |
114. Let's see what Ted Kennedy has to say about Biden-Lugar.... |
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Karmadillo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:03 AM Response to Original message |
8. Here's a link to previous thread discussing this issue |
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Karmadillo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:10 AM Response to Original message |
10. Here's the actual language of the Biden-Lugar resolution |
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Terwilliger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:14 PM Response to Reply #10 |
33. looks evident to me |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:19 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. Which shows how DECEPTIVE Dean was in using IWR as a wedge issue |
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Terwilliger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:29 PM Response to Reply #34 |
35. yes, but you're damning Dean with his surreptitious agreement with Kerry |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:36 PM Response to Reply #35 |
38. Nope. I never disagreed with Biden-Lugar. I disagreed with Dean lying |
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Terwilliger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:55 PM Response to Reply #38 |
127. like Kerry claiming he didn't give Bush war powers |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:07 PM Response to Reply #127 |
128. All resolutions are coercive tools used to threaten |
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slinkerwink (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:19 AM Response to Original message |
12. excellent post, eloriel |
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DrFunkenstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:42 AM Response to Original message |
13. Thank You For Proving The Point, Eloriel |
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DrFunkenstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:21 AM Response to Reply #13 |
22. No Comments? |
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Adjoran (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:34 AM Response to Original message |
14. The differences in the bills |
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DrFunkenstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:41 AM Response to Reply #14 |
15. Are These The Statements You're Talking About? |
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ozone_man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:39 PM Response to Reply #15 |
42. Wrong link. |
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Karmadillo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 10:59 AM Response to Reply #14 |
20. Works both ways. Dean's "blank check" rhetoric wears a little thin when |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:00 PM Response to Reply #20 |
27. The issue is black and white |
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Karmadillo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:11 PM Response to Reply #27 |
31. And Biden-Lugar was also a blank check. Thus, |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:59 PM Response to Reply #27 |
53. Still no comparison of B/L with IWR |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:57 AM Response to Original message |
16. Kick |
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DUreader (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 09:24 AM Response to Original message |
17. kick |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 10:39 AM Response to Original message |
18. Well done El, I need some help too |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 10:56 AM Response to Reply #18 |
19. kickin this for help |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:18 AM Response to Original message |
21. A deliberate twisting of Biden-Lugar |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:22 AM Response to Reply #21 |
23. Another twist |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:26 AM Response to Reply #23 |
24. More twists |
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DrFunkenstein (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:27 AM Response to Reply #24 |
25. See My Original Post |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:57 AM Response to Reply #25 |
26. back your enabler all you want |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:10 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:31 PM Response to Reply #30 |
37. blm thoughtfully provided it |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:39 PM Response to Reply #37 |
39. What a joke of a response |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:51 PM Response to Reply #39 |
46. whatever dear |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:55 PM Response to Reply #46 |
49. More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:01 PM Response to Reply #49 |
56. you're right |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:06 PM Response to Reply #56 |
61. Still nothing about the comparison of B/L to IWR ? |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:09 PM Response to Reply #61 |
66. how about you? |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:16 PM Response to Reply #66 |
74. Asked and answered |
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:51 PM Response to Reply #61 |
112. i think she's answered you just fine |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:44 PM Response to Reply #37 |
44. Kerry was for B-L, too, but Bush wanted to end negotiations |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:53 PM Response to Reply #44 |
48. read my reply to your tag-team pal |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:56 PM Response to Reply #48 |
50. Still nothing about comparing B/L to IWR? |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:59 PM Response to Reply #50 |
54. More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:05 PM Response to Reply #54 |
60. Yes, because reporting what |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:08 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. How hypocritical! |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:11 PM Response to Reply #64 |
68. More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:13 PM Response to Reply #68 |
70. More "attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:15 PM Response to Reply #64 |
73. Gee I went to the trouble |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:21 PM Response to Reply #73 |
75. Good for you |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:41 PM Response to Reply #75 |
109. But you have already dismissed them |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:12 PM Response to Reply #60 |
69. You'r ebeing very deceptive |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:24 PM Response to Reply #69 |
76. I can't help you lack of comprehension |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:29 PM Response to Reply #76 |
78. More deception |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:34 PM Response to Reply #78 |
82. More |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:52 PM Response to Reply #82 |
91. Julie, cat got your tongue? |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:52 PM Response to Reply #91 |
113. are you trying to taunt me? |
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:58 PM Response to Reply #60 |
115. I'm not IG, but I'd like to respond to that anyway |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:01 PM Response to Reply #48 |
55. Why try to pretend that Dean wasn't being deceptive |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:07 PM Response to Reply #55 |
63. I'll go slow for you blm |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:09 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. What are the differences? |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:10 PM Response to Reply #63 |
67. Keep telling yourself that to cover for Dean's deceptions. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:01 PM Response to Original message |
28. Deleted message |
Cocoa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:06 PM Response to Original message |
29. what was the reaction to Biden-Lugar at the time? |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:39 PM Response to Reply #29 |
41. I'm a Dean person and I have to admit |
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Cocoa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:47 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. thank you |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:22 PM Response to Reply #45 |
101. I have allways wondered about the Biden hate |
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:06 PM Response to Reply #29 |
116. Nonsense on the "Biden-friendly" comment |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:12 PM Response to Original message |
32. Dean DECEPTIVELY used IWR as a WEDGE ISSUE |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:31 PM Response to Reply #32 |
36. Kerry is dead as a Presidential candidate |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:39 PM Response to Reply #36 |
40. Realize this: DEAN LIED to use IWR as a wedge issue and the media let him |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:57 PM Response to Reply #40 |
51. The war is a wedge issue, and IWR is a litmus test |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:02 PM Response to Reply #51 |
57. More "attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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Cocoa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:03 PM Response to Reply #51 |
59. how did Joe Biden vote on IWR? |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:15 PM Response to Reply #51 |
72. Untrue. Kerry called for end of occupation last July. |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:31 PM Response to Reply #72 |
80. This war was a criminal war of aggression |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:35 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. Still nothing about comparing B/L with IWR? |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:39 PM Response to Reply #83 |
84. Kerry VOTED for war |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:50 PM Response to Reply #84 |
89. Still no comparison of B/L and IWR??? |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:57 PM Response to Reply #84 |
94. Dean SAID he would have voted for Biden-Lugar. You give him a pass. |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:40 PM Response to Reply #36 |
43. More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:53 PM Response to Reply #43 |
47. I suggest you adhere to your own advice |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 12:58 PM Response to Reply #47 |
52. More "Attck the critic, ignore the issue" |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:03 PM Response to Reply #52 |
58. More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue" |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:14 PM Response to Reply #58 |
71. "More "Attack the critic, ignore the issue"" |
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quaker bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:34 PM Response to Reply #36 |
122. You are correct. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:27 PM Response to Original message |
77. Deleted message |
Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:31 PM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Deleted message |
Tierra_y_Libertad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:33 PM Response to Original message |
81. Great post! Thank you, Eloriel. |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:39 PM Response to Reply #81 |
85. You left out Dean's support for a "blank check" |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:42 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. Dean is not a member of Congress, unlike the Bush war enablers |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:51 PM Response to Reply #87 |
90. Dean supported a "Blank check" for war |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:56 PM Response to Reply #90 |
92. You are speculating about what Dean may have done if he was in Congress |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 01:57 PM Response to Reply #92 |
93. Dean said he supported B/L |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:05 PM Response to Reply #93 |
96. Speculation are not facts |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:11 PM Response to Reply #96 |
97. Dean would have voted for IWR also |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:21 PM Response to Reply #97 |
100. Your entire argument is baseless |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:32 PM Response to Reply #100 |
104. Dean said he would vote for B/L |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:35 PM Response to Original message |
105. Nice to See the TRUTH posted |
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sangh0 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:36 PM Response to Reply #105 |
106. How is B/L stronger |
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phirili (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 02:51 PM Response to Reply #106 |
111. The Deaners cannot deal with the truth, they twist distort the truth |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:12 PM Response to Reply #111 |
118. Quite possibly the lamest post on this thread |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:10 PM Response to Reply #106 |
117. A few ways |
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JNelson6563 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 05:32 PM Response to Reply #117 |
138. too bad they are busy covering thier ears and chanting |
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Egnever (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 11:48 PM Response to Reply #138 |
140. Well considering the usual suspects on this thread |
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phirili (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:33 PM Response to Reply #106 |
121. Sangh0 you have been brilliant on this thread. The answer is |
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Eloriel (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:16 PM Response to Original message |
119. To all those suffering from reading comprehension problems |
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quaker bill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:30 PM Response to Reply #119 |
120. Amen and thanks |
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ibegurpard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:35 PM Response to Reply #119 |
123. I suspect |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:44 PM Response to Reply #119 |
124. Who's telling the truth, Eloriel or Ted Kennedy on Biden-Lugar (Oct.2002)? |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:51 PM Response to Reply #124 |
126. What else did Kennedy say that Kerry's defenders are not saying.. |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:10 PM Response to Reply #126 |
129. That was Kennedy's position. Dean's position was Biden-Lugar. |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:19 PM Response to Reply #129 |
131. I support all the antiwar candidates, including Clark |
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Cocoa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:25 PM Response to Reply #131 |
132. what if Dean gets the nomination? |
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IndianaGreen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:54 PM Response to Reply #132 |
135. My views on what happens after a nominee is selected... |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:29 PM Response to Reply #131 |
133. Biden-Lugar passes, Bush goes into Iraq, Dean is an "enabler" to you? |
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phirili (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:32 PM Response to Reply #131 |
134. Support outside of Congress does not count as much as support in Congress. |
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phirili (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 04:11 PM Response to Reply #119 |
130. Kennedy on Biden-Lugar: It would, in effect, grant unilaterally,...... |
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Ksec (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 03:48 PM Response to Original message |
125. Good post. Very well done Eloriel N/T |
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Scott Lee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 05:20 PM Response to Original message |
136. "I know you are but what am I" rebuttals by Dean detractors |
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blm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 05:26 PM Response to Reply #136 |
137. Try comprehending the FACTS for a change. |
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Scott Lee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-28-03 08:41 PM Response to Reply #137 |
139. Try POSTING a fact sometime |
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