When the Left fails to Understand Christians, they lose...

[Dob Bole]

This is historically the case. You may not like "conservative" (in their own faith, not politically) Christians, but in recent years they are the ones who win national elections for the Democrats. A failure to respect them is a failure to win an election.

President Carter won the Solid South in 1976, not because he pursued some sort of right-wing agenda, but because Southerners liked him. He was the first "born again" Christian to be elected President, a certain type of Christianity that is very distinctive to the Southeast.

Similarly, Bill Clinton won his elections by the same number of Southern Baptists who voted for him. Al Gore won by 500,000 votes, having been a seminary student.

I'm not suggesting that we have to nominate a Carter or Kucinich to win the election this year. But the left, even if they do not understand Christians, cannot expect to win by bashing them either. Don't assume you know Christians by some TV show that you watched.

[Parche]

1. Krishtens

"We dont need no Krishten behavior"
"We dont need no Krishten thought control"

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. We don't need no Christian votes!

Oh wait, yes we do...

[papau]

2. Very true - the GOP win by pretending Dems are anti Religion/Christians

The right – as it balloons the size of government with entitlements and corporate welfare contracts designed to help the richer among us – tries to sell via right wing hate radio that the word “liberal” means bigger, more centralized government that is laden with entitlements; higher taxes, a reticence to oppose enemies of the nation with military might, a willingness to abdicate authority to international organizations such as the United Nations, with a values agenda that is against faith in God, the traditional family; Constitutional rights and constraints, all "proven" by the nature of the folks and organizations that support one or more parts of the liberal, progressive, Democratic Party agenda.

:-)

[bobbieinok]

3. It's really weird that the 3 southern baptist politicians

are the ones most bashed by the religious right and the modern southern baptists.

Old southern baptists did NOT have a common creed or statement of faith ... 'our only creed the Bible'

It did leave up in the air what interpretation was the right one...but that WAS the old southern baptist denomination.

The right wing and religious right took over the denomination starting at the end of the 60s.

[Racenut20]

4. What is not recognized

Is "Real Christians" and the differences they have with the ones who give Christianity a bad name. I am meaning the right wing televangelists that are no more than Rush Boilbut with a Bible.

The 700 club bears the identification as the leadership, but he, Falwell, Foreman, Swaggert, Baker, are all offshoots out of the Council you never hear about in Springfield, Mo. (Would you believe where AG Ashcroft is from)

Bigots always hide behind the flag or the Bible. These wingnuts hide behind both.

[loudnclear]

5. Unfortunately the Christians on TV are what most judge Christians

and they are sharletons.

[jarab]

10. Agree

We don't need to reach out to any fundamental branches; it's useless. But, there are many "Christians" with a self-identity who have not written off the Democratic Party. Why should we sacrifice them, as the author of the thread implied we should not do?
Christian bashing is a losing proposition for any national political office,
mho
...O...

[stinkeefresh]

6. I'm not a fan of the doomsaying, but you are right about

the need to understand and accept Christians. After all, they are being constantly lied to by the Xtian Republicans.

And it is a battle we could win- after all, the most famous proponent of a radically liberal perspective was Jesus himself. It is maddening that most Christians vote against literally everything Jesus stood for. Poor guy.

[CBHagman]

7. I've lost track of the number of articles that take up this theme.

So far I've seen this in The Hill newspaper, The Washington Post, The Washington Monthly, DU, and God knows (you should pardon the expression) where else.

Generally, there's a lot of hand-wringing and/or smug opining that the spiritually adept GOP will vanquish the hapless, Godless, valueless Democrats.

BUT the ugly truth is that Capitalism, not Christianity, is the faith of the leadership of the current GOP. This is the party of Newt "Shtup the Choirgirl" Gingrich. This is the party in which members of Congress who get caught soliciting prostitutes still get a 100 percent rating from the Christian Coalition.

The Democrats are the party of Jimmy Carter and Father Robert Drinan. Don't let the GOP get away with pasting a few words about faith and family over their social Darwinism and greed and call themselves the party of the devout. Let's challenge them on this every step of the way.

[cally]

8. I agree

The left has to embrace all the christians who support progressive values. We cannot alienate one of our bases. We can support the religious left and support religious freedom. We are on the same side.

[Minstrel Boy]

9. I don't deny there's truth to that.

I just find it a sad and bizarre truth. And it seems to be getting worse.

For nearly 30 years, every President has found it necessary to at least make a profession of being born again. (Bush Sr? Yeah, a real man of God there. :eyes: )

And it is simply embarassing that, in the year 2000, it was considered a bold move to nominate a Jewish VP candidate.

America, I love ya, but I'll never understand you.

[KG]

11. i've found plenty of christians on the left.

met plenty of chistians involved in the lefts' pursuits of social and economic justice.

[CivilRightsNow]

13. The DU crowd constantly strives to make me turn away...

from the Democratic party.

I am a Christian and I am sick of the amount of christian bashing I see here on DU. I am absolutely appauled by it. Especially considering the fact that a good number of the Christians I know are very conflicted about Bush jr. and what he is doing to our world. Christians arent this stereotype of Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham, they come from all walks of life... And yes, many dont think that what Bush is pushing our world toward a good time to come.

So, not only do the democrats encourage gay marriage, abortion, blocking any type of christian religious sentiment in schools or public arenas... but they constantly bash Christians for their close minded fundamentalism, while engaging in close minded stereotyping themselves.

Arg!

[Sterling]

14. Umm

"Christians arent this stereotype of Jerry Falwell and Billy Graham"

I agree that is why when someone tells me we need to appeal to Christians I have to wonder who they are talking about. I really have no interest in trying to appeal to the stereotype you reference. I think that religion has no place in politics and real Christians understand that.

The only "Christians" who have a problem with progressive ideals are in my opinion not Christians.

I think most DUers feel same way so don't feel unwelcome here. If you are not using Christianity to hide your racism or worse you will have no problems finding people here who support your right to freedom of religion.

[FredScuttle]

16. Who's generalizing now?

wow..."democrats constantly bash Christians for their close minded fundamentalism"...that's a pretty broad brush you painting with. So, because you encounter the occasional anti-religious DUer on this forum, you extrapolate that to mean that all Democrats are godless heathens who live to marginalize Christians? You have a point of view you want to express and so do I...don't lump me in with morons who don't respect your faith. By the same token, respect the fact that I (an ex-Catholic) have many, many problems with so-called "Christian" organizations who purport to represent the faithful and attempt, through fear and intimidation, to roll back the rights of other citizens (including those to do not practice any faith). By the way, I do support equal protection and benefits for gay and lesbian couples, a woman's right to choose, and respecting all our citizens by removing references to particular faiths in public, tax-supported forums.

If you're conflicted about your faith and how it's been hijacked by zealots and bigots, I would suggest some reflection on your part.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

22. Conflicted?

"Especially considering the fact that a good number of the Christians I know are very conflicted about Bush jr. and what he is doing to our world"

Conflicted?!? Christians should be taking to the streets in outrage that Bush and his group are invoking Christ/God to perpetrate some of the most heinous acts our country has engaged in! If they are still conflicted at this point perhaps they should hit the good book and refresh themselves on the teachings of Christ to better understand how DEEPLY unchristian George W. Bush really is.


"So, not only do the democrats encourage gay marriage, abortion, blocking any type of christian religious sentiment in schools or public arenas... but they constantly bash Christians for their close minded fundamentalism, while engaging in close minded stereotyping themselves."

We "encourage" these things because we -- like most of the founders of our country -- believe in a funny little thing called the separation of church and state.

You don't force me to follow your religious beliefs and I won't force you to give up meat, meditate, and believe in reincarnation in order to follow mine. Okay?

[Scott Lee]

29. Uh, EXCUSE me?

"So, not only do the democrats encourage gay marriage, abortion, blocking any type of christian religious sentiment in schools or public arenas... "

What democrats "encourage gay marriage" and "abortion"? Can you name them and post your evidence of your claim? Last I saw that democrats tend to favor allowing gays to marry if they wish to - is that "encouragement"? I have never seen groups of democrats out in public having a cheerleading session for gays to run out and get married. Last I heard, most democrats are pro-choice, which means they want to sustain the constitutional right of a woman to obtain a safe and legal abortion if she so chooses. She may choose to carry to term as well. That's why they call it "pro CHOICE". Where is the "encouraging abortion" there?

Your post outted your own outrageous preconceptions of democrats. I suggest you honestly reexamine your views on this stuff and see if it's time to remove the gigantic log in your own eye before you strain to pull the mote from someone elses.

[Blue_Chill]

33. Don't let the angry Atheists get to you

They are pissed off at being attacked by Right Wing Christians all the time and many just haven't learned that they shouldn't paint us all with the same brush. There are a few bigots among them but if you look you'll see the that while the threads are many the usual suspect are typically behind them.

I know how you feel, it is hard to choose between the Dem's and the GOP because of our moral issues. But if you look close you see that the Right is only faking their morality. It's all a trick and you see what they really stand for in their actions.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salinen]

17. Do any christians deserve

some of the treatment they get here at du? I have only heard a christian defend themselves by saying "those are not the true christians." 80 something percent of the christians will pull the lever for * in "04, at least that's the stats I've heard. And I think that will be due to * calling himself a christian. So which is it;

- most christians are misguided?

- most will back * because they feel obligated to their brother?

- most christians have a problem with morality?

- the christian church has been overrun with charletans?

- christians think as a block?

In an attempt to appease the christians, wouldn't our party need to start backing the idea that gays are abhorant, that the Pope is correct about condums, and that Jesus is the only god possible?

[quaker bill]

19. No

But then Quakers feel that many Christians are misguided. We have only been saying so for about 350 years.

Interestingly, this sort of Christian started the abolition movement, the women's sufferage movement, played a big role in the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement, the prison reform movement, established conscientious objector status, and won the Nobel Peace prize.

It is also why we were infiltrated by J Edgar Hoover's FBI, and the CIA under Reagan.

It is why today, this sort of christian puts their life on the line to escort Palestinian school children through IDF checkpoints.

There are christians out there that are far more liberal than thought of in your wildest dreams. We have been at this for a very long time, welcome aboard.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. 80% of "Christians" according to the narrow definition

promoted by the fundamentalists, who see themselves as the only true Christians.

Remember, when a fundy says "Christian," he isn't referring to the Berrigan brothers, Gene Robinson, William Sloane Coffin, or anyone else except other brainwashed fundies.

It may be fair to say that 80% of fundamentalists will be voting for His Hypocrisy.

I can guarantee you that 80& of Episcopalians will be pulling the D lever.

[bobbyboucher]

24. Uh, very...uh, ...very ....What's the word..... oh yeah,

suspicious. Very suspicious comment.

[Forkboy]

28. nice

Satan can to!

[Jerseycoa]

18. Christians whatever

I am not religious, but I don't expect anybody to be anything but what they are. Don't put people down for having faith in something. I believe in religious freedom and the separation of church and state. Where's the conflict?

[Scott Lee]

20. The Left understands that it will not tolerate a Christian theocracy

This has nothing to do with understanding "Christians". It has everything to do with resolve against an encroaching theocracy.

And BTW, almost no one has a dearth of understanding regarding "Christians" than fellow Christians. Look at the sectarianism amongst them.

[LeftCoast]

21. Oh, the poor discriminated against Christians...

:eyes:

Whatever.

Look, I've got no beef with Christians but this attitude that everyone needs to pander to them is just nauseating. Your religion is your business, but it has no business in running this country.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. My wife is a strong Christian (Catholic) and very leftist.

She attends mass regularly and adores her religion. She also believes in gay marriage (her sister is gay and also a Catholic), abortion rights, and is against religious displays in public schools and public places. She is also a socialist, loathes Dubya, anti-war, and has all the usual "leftist" stances.

So, what's with the "leftists" don't understand Christians?

Carter won the "solid south" because it was still the aftermath of the national nausea over Nixon. Clinton won the first time because of Perot. He won the second time because the Republicans ran a corpse against him.

So, what do you propose? That the Democrats start shouting Hallelujah! to get the good ol' boys to vote for them?

[wuushew]

31. Perot factor is a myth

He pulled swing voters from both parties and people who usually didn't vote.

[Blue_Chill]

34. I think this thread is based on some of the anger seen in DU

much is directed at christians. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm just saying that unless you look close at who is writing what it's easy to think that the vast majority of DU is anti-christian.

[maha]

25. There's Christians, and there's Christians

What you're saying is that the Dems have to kiss fundie and conservative Christian butt to get elected. I believe there are a great many Christians who are put off by Bible Belt Christians and would not wish to be associated with them.

[Q]

26. Why is it that 'we' must strive to 'understand'...

...Christians and they seem under no 'obligation' to understand us?

- A Christian follows the teachings of Christ. Yet...the type of Christianity he taught is much different that what I see in America today.

- I consider myself a Christian...but don't feel the need to be seen praying with the hypocrites. I also resent having to HAVE a religion in order to be considered a 'good' American.

- It's not 'bashing' Christians or religion to insist that they remain 'separated' from OUR government. It's what the Founders wanted...and for good reason.

[IndianaGreen]

30. I think the Left really understands Christianity very well

and that's the reason why it is the Left.

[George_Bonanza]

32. Jesus wouldn't approve of Bush, nuff said for Christians

Why would Jesus approve of Bush's anti-peace maneuvers? Why would Jesus approve of Bush's merciless executions while being governor? What I think Jesus would hate most of all is those who sully his name by acting pious by using his father's name in vain in public yet in secret, they are evil and as immoral as they come.

I'm not REALLY Christian. I was raised Presbyrterian but I was never that religious. Yet my roots are strong and I instinctively have a protective attitude towards Christianity when it gets labelled as bad things. Some see Jerry Falwell as Mr. Christianity. That's about as fair as the extreme capitalist who are eager to label Josef Stalin as Mr. Communism. It's easy, fun, and totally requires no thinking.

I do have a problem with adhering to the Bible so much though. It's a manmade book, nothing more. It spans hundreds of years, and different authors, some unknown, have contributed to it. Who decided what gets to go in the Bible anyway? Why should we hold the Bible to be irrefutable, especially since Christianity stresses mortal humbleness in the face of the perfect God? Aren't we idolizing ourselves in our own perfection, which is sin? The Bible shouldn't be taken too heavily, because it is disjointed, sometimes self-contradictory, and rather arbitrary in whose books gets to be immortalized. It's important, but if something outrageous that you know Jesus wouldn't approve of is there, do not trust it more than your savior himself.