Dean just referred to Russia as the Soviet Union thrice

[_Jumper_]

This will rank up there with Bush's 2000 foreign policy "quiz"...

[jenk]

1. get with the program Howard

[onebigbadwulf]

2. Hmm

where and what context?

[_Jumper_]

8. On Hardball minutes ago

He was answering a question about Iran's nuclear program and talked about Russia's role in aiding Iran and the need to engage it, but he mistakenly referred to it as the Soviet Union each time.

[onebigbadwulf]

3. Hmm

where and what context?

[seventhson]

4. a story like this needs links and video or tape

and a check of whether he actually even said it or whether he used the word "former" in the context.

This is an easy slip to make when your tired and campaigning overtime.

You got nuthin'


but BFEECLARK

[Egnever]

13. He said it

In discussing russia suplying Iran with nuclear arms equipment. Just a mistake but the haters will grab onto it and howl about it.
:shrug:

[Le Taz Hot]

15. Ya think?

I mean, they wouldn't go so far as to start a whole seperate thread about it now, would they? :eyes:

[_Jumper_]

What if Shrub said this?

Would it be considered a non-issue in your view?

[Le Taz Hot]

23. I see this thread for what it is

and another incessant candidate basher is flushed.

[_Jumper_]

35. Moi?

Conduct a search. I am hardly a candidate basher.

[Scott Lee]

58. FlameBaiticus Deanus

in the Latin vernacular.

[yankeedem]

30. I don't know

Is Shrub a Doctor? Come on, come up with better material next time.

[Toucano]

33. Cheney made the same mistake

in his last Meet The Press interview. I think that's where it was.

I made fun of him for it, and I'd probably do the same to Dean. Just for fun though.:)

It isn't a big deal REALLY! It's just a mistake. Things like that happen to everyone. It isn't as if he made a banner or something! LOL!

[Egnever]

16. He said it

In discussing russia suplying Iran with nuclear arms equipment. Just a mistake but the haters will grab onto it and howl about it.
:shrug:

Course he also refered the russia as the former soviet union earlier in the interview. It was a verbal gaffe. Shit happens

[_Jumper_]

22. It was a major verbal gaffe

n/t

[alcuno]

29. It really depends on what he meant. Russia or the Commonwealth

The truth is that Russia and all those 'stans would have considerable leverage with a country such as Iran.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

99. There should be a transcript tomorrow

http://www.msnbc.com/news/MSNBCTRANSCRIPTSMAIN_Front.asp

[ComerPerro]

5. Where, when, in what context

And what time period was he discussing....

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bicentennial_baby]

7. Jeebus people!

It was on Hardball w/ Chris Matthews

Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=804726&mesg_id=804969&page=

[Jim Sagle]

9. Ever.

[Shakespeare]

18. That is totally uncalled for.

If you don't like Clark, then don't vote for him--but to suggest that Clark supporters are liars is beyond the pale (and against DU rules).

[Terwilliger]

10. damn people...how fucking harpy can you be?

get a life!

[_Jumper_]

11. This is a major mistake

:eyes:

We all know if Bush made the same mistake we would have fifty threads about it posted in five minutes.

[MoonRiver]

14. There is a crew of true believers worshiping at Dean's feet, no doubt.

Trouble is they have absolutely no perspective about whether their guy is actually electable (doubtful), and if his policies really represents liberal Democratic values (I don't think so.
:shrug:

[Jacobin]

17. Takin' up for old Georgie are ya?

Can anyone say "Astroturf" posting ?

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Terwilliger]

42. Bush?

You're worried about how people would react if Bush said it? Shit, Bush could say black is white and no one would question him.

Tweety was doing his best to trip Dean up, and he goofed referring to the former Soviet Union.

[MTAtech]

98. The news wouldn't have picked this up if Bush said it

The evidence does not support that it would have been all over the news if Bush said this. In the 2000 campaign, Bush said, '“By far, the vast majority ... goes to the people at the bottom.” The truth is that the bottom 60 percent got 14.7 percent. Gee, that’s a pretty significant misstatement, don’t you think?'


- From Al Franken's "Liars..."
The news didn't pick up on it then.

Personally, I don't think this is such a big deal. I often say USSR. Sometimes I catch myself, sometimes I don't. People over 40 lived in a world where the countries had different names (sounds like a U2 song).

[evil_orange_cat]

12. it might as well be the Soviet Union...

Putin is ex-KGB and is strong arming people like the Soviet's did. I'm sure Dean made a mistake, but regardless of what Russia calls itself, the legacy of corruption, oppression, and crime of the Soviet Union still continues.

GO DEAN!

[alcuno]

19. Actually, it's the Commonwealth of Independent States - not

Russia or the Soviet Union. I believe that it includes 12 of the 15 republics.

[Nazgul35]

21. Ya'll must be youngins.....

sorry...but as been said in another thread....those of us who grew up at a time when the entire world could've blown up in 40 minutes...tend to slip into the usage of Soviets when we mean Russians...or Soviet Union when we mean Russia...

Just like I some times say Oakland Raiders when they are the Los Angeles...oh...wait a minute....now i'm confused.....

Get over it...you guys are really desperate when you attack crap like this....

[_Jumper_]

25. Name on other politician who has made that mistake

I agreed with what he was attempting to say but we need to acknowledge that this will increase doubts about his ability to handle foreign policy/defense issues. This will hurt us if we nominate him. Does anyone think this will not be used be KKKarl Rove to smear Dean as untrustworthy in foreign affairs?

[Upfront]

40. What Crap

you can't be serious.

[_Jumper_]

43. Surely you jest

Do you think will not be used by the Rove propaganda machine?

[Pastiche423]

26. Back in the US, back in the USS, back in the USSR!

I think you are correct about the youngins.

When from the moment I was cognizant of the world, the Soviet Union was THE boogeyman.

I sometimes have to let the Beatles tune play awhile in my head to remember it is now Russia.

[Sterling]

38. I agree to compair this with Bush's inabilty to speak English

Is a sad stretch. I can live with this kind of mistake as long as he can pronounce NUCLEAR.

I sometimes make the same mistake when discussing The former USSR.

[SayitAintSo]

64. Bingo baby !

Agreed ... If that's all some have to complain about.... Well there ya go ....

[unfrigginreal]

24. LOL...Do you think his advisors forgot to tell him it's been split up?

Isn't that what you're trying to suggest, that Dean is not aware that there isn't a Soviet Union? Leave it to a Clarkie.

[_Jumper_]

31. Absolutely not

This will further damage Dean's electability by providing a golden opportunity to smear Dean's ability to handle foreign affairs and defense issues.

[unfrigginreal]

37. How so?

How will Dean be smeared by this?

[_Jumper_]

45. Just imagine this clip being replayed by the Rove propaganda machine...

...over and over again. This will not kill his candidacy but it certainly will hurt it, although I will concede that the damage will be minimal.

[Terwilliger]

47. well, you seem to be in a hell of a tizzy considering the minimal damage

:eyes:

[unfrigginreal]

49. Are you serious?

Do you think Rove is going to run clips of someone misspeaking with all of the shit we have in the chimps videofiles? Think again.

[_Jumper_]

51. Not Rove, but Rush, Hannity, Faux et al. will

n/t

[spooky3]

50. Karl Rove is not so stupid as to start that food fight

when his "boss" can match every Dem's minor verbal gaffe with 100 of his own.

[alcuno]

36. There is now a Commonwealth of Independent States

It's not the Soviet Union but it's not Russia either.

[spooky3]

52. Glad you pointed this out--everyone seems to overlook it.

[alcuno]

53. Thanks. I notice that the original poster has ignored it even though

I've posted it three times now. Wouldn't want facts to get in the way of politics.

[_Jumper_]

55. The CIS is a toothless tiger

It has no political weight.

[alcuno]

56. Yes, but your assertion is that Dean meant the Soviet Union in

place of Russia alone. He could very well have meant those states as a group. Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, as well as Russia, could provide significant assistance.

Listening to him, I didn't get the feeling he meant only Russia. The former Soviet Union is not Russia, it's all 15 states combined. 12 of them are in the CIS.

[Walt Starr]

27. Well, I'm 100% in the undecided category now

I may have to get behind Mosley-Braun.

[Terwilliger]

46. because what?

why are you undecided all the sudden?

[Forkboy]

57. why not

you've been for everybody else so far :evilgrin:

[KittyWampus]

28. He Also Praised Bush Sr's Foreign Policy

Gee, you think Dean's activists will disavow this?

[MIMStigator]

32. Dean's not ready for prime time

If the economy is getting better, the election will be about foreign policy. We're doomed if the nominee isn't Clark.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[_Jumper_]

41. I wouldn't go that far

But we would be better off if we nominated Clark, Kerry, Edwards, and even Liberman over Dean due to his perception as being weak on defense and his inexperience in foreign affairs.

[phirili]

72. Disaster in June on meet the press; another debacle today with tweety

Dean is definitely not ready for Prime Time. Dean managers should keep using the internet, written statements and TV ads to promote him.

[poskonig]

34. He referred to 'Russia' earlier in the interview.

I'm sticking with the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders theory. :bounce:

[quinnox]

44. Way to go Dean

This will help the perception of you having no foreign policy experience. Someone needs to inform Dean the Soviet Union is no more.


Dean needs to go back to being governor, he isn't presidential material.



I am getting more convinced Dean won't win the nomination, which is good news for the Dem party.

[Kahuna]

77. But but..he's visited 50 countries and according to Deanie..

THAT gives him foreign policy experience. Yep. He actually said that. :eyes:

[minkyboodle]

48. He said it

It was an unfortunate gaffe, not that I think it means a damn thing but it gives ammo to the Repubs if Dean gets the nomination. In fairness to Dean he was speaking of the commonwealth (that includes a bunch of 'Stans) so he wasn't confusing Russia with the Soviet Union. Just wish he had said former soviet states instead. I feel the same about Dean as I did before, I like the guy but I just think that he is a bad matchup for Bush in our current corrupt media run elections. Tonight kind of confirmed that feeling.
Scott

[foo_bar]

54. it'll probably help him

To recap: no knowledge of foreign affairs, a cult of "plain-spoken" personality unlike that hifalutin' Kerry or Gore, an undistinguished academic career with daddy's money, the highest smirk-per-minute of any Democratic candidate... sounds like we have a winner!

[Scott Lee]

59. The "new" Russia isn't much different from the Soviet Union.

In fact many Russians feel it is worse. Could Dean have been speaking prophetically?

[Kahuna]

81. DING DING! You are the winner of the Dean Apologist Award.

Contragulatios! Tell him what he's won, Don!

[DrFunkenstein]

82. LOL

n/t

[Scott Lee]

92. Let's see, other than taxes, more powerful mafia, censorship

Goodness, it all looks similar to the Staroye Vremya to me!

[JVS]

85. The new Russia isn't nearly as rich

[Scott Lee]

95. True....but they can get Nike wear more easily! Long live freedom!

[RevolutionStartsNow]

60. Dean did great tonight, excellent job

but he had to give you guys SOMETHING to talk about. :)

Has anyone posted yet that Dean is "doomed", "finished" or "sinking fast" after this gaffe? Only a matter of time...

Glad to see that Dean had a nice, relaxed performance, was direct and well-received by the audience, and handled Matthew's neurotic interview style. Lots of smiling and laughing. Major improvement from his early TV appearances.

[WhosNext]

61. Dean is the George W. Bush of the left.

He acts sort of goofy and stubborn, but at the same time sort of like a blue collar straight talker-type. He has verbal slip-ups and seemingly struggles to finish a sentence, but at the same time has a core group of very fervent supporters.

[blm]

62. That's how my spouse sees him.

He says he gets the same creepy feeling he gets from Bush.

[mmonk]

63. picky picky

well I'm getting ready for my winter vacation. First I'm heading to Constantinople, then I'll be in Leningrad a few days. :hi:

[Darth_Ole]

65. The Repukes will use this to smear Dean? You're joking, right?

Do you really believe that the people will honestly be convinced that Dean doesn't know the difference between modern day Russia and the Soviet Union.

Kerry might use this because he's desperate and he he'll use every little thing to point out the fact Dean was never in the military.

Other than that, it's a minor mistake. Not a problem. Hell, I wasn't even aware of it until I saw this thread.

[_Jumper_]

66. Joe and Jane Sixpack will

Remember, these people also think Saddam played a role in 9/11...

[ima_sinnic]

75. Joe & Jane Sixpack hardly know the difference between the 2

. . . you really think the sheeple are that well informed? go down to WalMart and ask 20 people where the Soviet Union is and see what they say. believe me, this "gaffe" does not compute.

[mmonk]

67. No

Just having fun.

[Khephra]

68. As another person who grew up in the tail end of the Cold War

and worried about nuclear war every night at the hands of the Soviet Union/USSR/Russia--and who frequently makes this verbal slip himself---I have only one thing to say:

Most pathetic Dean bash EVER!

Some of you are great with critical comments that make me think on Dean issues and stances, but tiny crap like this and Kerry's hair make me realize that some people who are in politics are too stupid to breathe.

I'd be angry right now, except for the fact that your desperation and jealousy is showing for everyone else to see with this thread.

[mmonk]

70. You Dean folks

need to lighten up.

[_Jumper_]

71. Amen

How many anti-Dean threads have I ever posted? Some of them act as if I bash Dean 24/7. :eyes:

[Khephra]

74. Oh, I guess you missed the point

I'm very "lightened up" right now. I'm laughing at you.

Most Pathetic Dean Bash EVER.

It's TOO funny. I used to think that some of you were actually a force to worry about, instead I see tonight that your attacks are so pathetic they're just laughable.

Rush would reject any of these bashes as being unusable they're so childish.

[_Jumper_]

76. What was your reaction to Bush's foreign policy "pop quiz"?

?

[Khephra]

78. Lets see

Dean calls a country by a name that it's had during most of his life (that I happen to hear all the time from people over 30 years old)when giving answers on policy.

Bush can't answer a question about foreign leadership, guesses, and gives a totally wrong (and unconnected) answer.

Yeah, I can see how you can confuse the two as being similar.

:crazy:

Thanks for the laughs tonight. Your desperate sweat stinks to here.

[_Jumper_]

91. Answer honestly

If Shrub made the same mistake how would you react to it?

[Scott Lee]

93. Howard Dean can point out Kuwait on a map

That already gives him a distinct advantage over the Warchimp when he was running.

[ima_sinnic]

69. oh right, people will drop away from him in droves after this

NOT

[kodi]

73. actually dean was correct, USSR/Iran did have nuke agreements in '89

22 June 1989
In a meeting in Moscow, Iranian President Hashemi-Rafsanjani, and Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev sign agreements that include cooperation in the nuclear field.
--"Moscow, Iran Sign Economic Pacts, Hint Future Arms Deals," Los Angeles Times, 22 June 1989; in Lexis-Nexis, <http://www.lexis-nexis.com>.

http://www.nti.org/e_research/e1_iran_nch_1989.html

there is ample evidence that the SOVIET UNION did provide nuclear technologies to iran just as it is true that the russian republic is continuing this.

there is also abundant evidence that ex-soviet/russian scientists have provided iran with black-market nuclear technologies.

this is what the nunn-luger act was supposed to stop, which, by the way, bush attempted to gut... and why to this day lugar considers bush an idiot

jumping on dean for using the term USSR instead of russia is so frigging anal, especially when the facts show that what he said was technically correct.

one of the reasons so many liberals disgust me is their completely fucking prissy habit of playing "gotcha'."

and pissing and moaning about dean's remarks is a trait of small minds.

BTW i am an al gore supporter, and i dont have a dog in this fight.

[JVS]

80. I did that too once

A prof was lecturing about the end of the Gold standard and one of the questions he asked the class was, "Which countries produce a lot of Gold?" He was hinting at why the US had no interest in going back to the Gold standard after world war 2 and up to today. I answed "South Africa and the Soviet Union" He said, "We call it Russia now" but I was right damn it! It was the Soviet Union that we didn't want to have such a huge amount of control over money. The decisions had been made when it was the Soviet Union. Unless Russia does some amazing shit soon, I doubt they will ever be as important as the USSR was. They might as well keep calling themselves the Soviet Union, it was the name under which they did their best work.

[Zynx]

79. It's complaints about little details that drive people from our party.

Do you have any concept how snot nosed and arrogant you sound? This kind of crap didn't work on Bush at all, similar attacks on foreign policy credentials didn't work on Clinton or Reagan either. People DON'T CARE! All that matters is they have the basic idea not whether they know the transportation geography of the CIS. Snap out of your opposition to Dean trance and see reality. I never saw much wrong with Bush's answers to those questions in 2000 because I didn't know either except for Pakistan.

[mmonk]

84. opposition to Dean trance?

Interesting terminology. No, it probably won't hurt him. But can't we have a little fun with it?

[Zynx]

90. I always make up terminology. Makes me interesting to read.

No, don't have fun with it because many on both sides take it far too literally.

[mmonk]

97. Oh

shucks. But you're probably right from the looks of it.

[JVS]

83. Those countries should get back together,

Their solo careers have really sucked.

[mmonk]

86. But it would give the republicans something they want

a return to the cold war. They are fish out of water with this middle east stuff.

[JVS]

88. They don't care

The republicans already have their unending war fantasy enemy. It is called terror and is generally embodied in brown muslim men wearing turbans.

[BellTry]

87. Actually Dean appears to know more history than you

You do realize that in the TIME Dean was referring to the SOVIET UNION (not Russia which did not yet exist as we know it today) was dealing with Iran... don't you?

[9215]

89. Score: Bush :10,000 mistatements .....Dean :1

Just remember it isn't what you say but whether you own the press or not.

Dean should just call the station airing the transcription and have it changed to Russia. This is what Bush would do.

[Forkboy]

94. oh nooooooo....anything but that!

[Sean Reynolds]

96. Just proves Dean is a Commie!

I mean he's WISHING the Soviet Empire was still around. That EVIL COMMUNIST!