Kerry Goes Friggin' BALLISTIC On Ashcroft And Will REPLACE The Patriot Act

[DrFunkenstein]

This speech is a veritable fireworks show. I can only include so much in this post. You have to read the whole thing to realize that Kerry has hit a whole other level. Kerry has taken off the gloves - and I mean really taken off the gloves. There is no else out there hitting with this much authority at this intensity.

This is the moment where Ali comes off the ropes and starts the smack down on Foreman. Ali was the underdog, too. Didn't have a prayer. Past his prime. Howard (Cossell) said he was washed up.

You tell me - does this sound like someone past their prime? Someone who doesn't have the fight left in him?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

As I talk to people around the country, it’s clear there is a broad based fear that the ideologues of this Administration will stop at nothing to get dissenters out of the way. Already, they are summoning the full-power of their communications network – the attack ads, the Ann Coulters, the Sean Hannitys, the Rush Limbaughs – to try to stifle dissent. In the name of the War on Terror, they are attempting to diminish the very rights that define us. They turn civil debate into a shouting match of personal mudslinging that does a disservice to the quality of our democracy. These pretender protectors of our Constitution are trying to intimidate those who dare to speak out. We will not be silenced. We will be heard.

<>

Clearly in the War on Terror, we need to be prepared. Information is the most critical weapon we have. We need to be able to get and coordinate that information in a real way. And that means we need a President and an Attorney General who are ready to do that in ways that are consistent with who we are. Americans deserve to know there is some buffer between them and the unbridled power of our government.

After September 11th, this Administration gathered and used broad new powers to investigate the private lives of people in this country. The powers were supposed to be used fight the War on Terror. But George Bush and John Ashcroft have gone beyond that. They have used police powers in secret ways and for political purposes. John Ashcroft has authorized his agents to monitor church meetings and political rallies without any cause and without the need to get approval. Thirteen FAA employees and a high-tech Homeland Security tracking system were used to help Tom Delay track down Texas State Legislators who were resisting his plan to give Republicans more seats in Congress.

And the FBI investigated peaceful demonstrators who spoke out against this Administration’s policies in Iraq. I know what it’s like to be spied on by the government because it happened to me under Nixon when I came home from Vietnam and said that war was wrong. And one thing we don’t need in this country is an Attorney General who spies on Americans.

<>

An America that creates a secret police power which can by its secret discretion invade the privacy of Americans and intimidate them is a far cry from what our Founders envisioned and from what we have fought to protect for 228 years.

A country where you are visited by the authorities for thinking or voicing an unpopular idea smacks more of the Taliban than Thomas Jefferson. Trading in our basic rights for the false facade of security is not worth it – and it is not worthy of a great nation such as America.

We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night. So it is time to end the era of John Ashcroft.

That starts with replacing the Patriot Act with a new law that protects our people and our liberties at the same time. I’ve been a District Attorney and I know that what law enforcement needs are real tools not restrictions on American’s basic rights.

I voted for the Patriot Act right after September 11th – convinced that – with a sunset clause – it was the right decision to make. It clearly wasn’t a perfect bill – and it had a number of flaws – but this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act.

But George Bush and John Ashcroft abused the spirit of national action after the terrorist attacks. They have used the Patriot Act in ways that were never intended and for reasons that have nothing to do with terrorism. That’s why, as President, I will propose new anti-terrorism laws that advance the War on Terror while ending the assault on our basic rights.

This Administration has shown a pattern of abusing civil liberties. At this very moment, an FBI agent could be rifling through every website you’ve ever visited – and you would never know it. A Justice Department official in Washington could be reading every email you’ve sent in the last few months – and they wouldn’t need a judges permission or even a reason to do so. School librarians could be being placed under gag orders to keep them from speaking out. Federal investigators could be demanding and receiving upon request your private hospital medical records. Law enforcement officers could be entering your house while you are gone – rifling through your possessions – and leaving without every letting you know they had been there.

If I’m elected President, we will put an end to “sneak and peak” searches which permit law enforcement to conduct a secret search and seize evidence without notification. Agents can break into a home or business to take photos, seize property, copy computer files, or load a secret keystroke detector on a computer. These searches should be limited only to the most rare circumstances. And law enforcement should provide notice of the search within seven days, unless a court extends the period of notification.

We will provide Americans with protections from wiretaps, prevent local police officers from spying on innocent people, and that ensures our courts guarantee appropriate national security protections.

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2003_1201.html

<>

[WhosNext]

1. I hope all the candidates follow suit on this.

The Patriot Act is garbage.

[alexwcovington]

2. Kerry IS following suit

Everyone else has already thrashed it.

[blm]

He's gone after it more than a few times.

The press doesn't mention it much. Your assumption that he is following others is false.

[bearfan454]

87. Way to go Kerry !

Now go after the vote stealing machines.

[Iverson]

3. this deserves praise

I too hope that more candidates follow suit.

[Jacobin]

4. I'm confused. I thought he voted for the Patriot Act and the IWR

Need to have a cup of coffee I guess.

[blm]

11. Read the whole speech. It's in there.

,

[DrFunkenstein]

29. Why Kerry Voted For The Patriot Act In The First Place

Much of what is in Patriot Act are good ideas. The Act increased penalties for terrorists, limited the statute of limitations for terrorist crimes, and allowed for greater prosecution of overseas acts against America. I fought to include important money laundering restrictions to clamp down on the cash flowing to terrorist enterprises. I had been pushing for these ideas since the late nineties – and after September 11th they were more important than ever.

I voted for the Patriot Act right after September 11th – convinced that – with a sunset clause – it was the right decision to make. It clearly wasn’t a perfect bill – and it had a number of flaws – but this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act.

But George Bush and John Ashcroft abused the spirit of national action after the terrorist attacks. They have used the Patriot Act in ways that were never intended and for reasons that have nothing to do with terrorism. That’s why, as President, I will propose new anti-terrorism laws that advance the War on Terror while ending the assault on our basic rights.

(W)e need to strengthen the laws that actually do help us combat terrorism and keep America safe. This is some of the hard-work of fighting terrorism which the Administration has all too often failed to do. In the months leading up to September 11th, two of the hijackers were arrested for drunk driving -- and another was stopped for speeding and then let go even though he was the subject of an arrest warrant in a neighboring county and was on a federal terrorist watch list. Firefighters and law enforcement must have access to critical data so they can connect the dots. And we need to simplify and streamline the 58 national terrorist watch lists and make sure they’re available to the right people on the frontlines.

Four of the five terrorists who crashed an airliner into the Pentagon had false IDs. If teenagers trying to buy beer can falsify IDs, can we be surprised when terrorists can fake driver’s licenses and visas? It’s time for a new generation of smart driver’s licenses and IDs that use encrypted technology so they can’t be forged. Instead of the assault on our civil liberties that John Ashcroft is waging, we need to rely on new technology that can protect our privacy and our county at the same time. We need to reform our intelligence agencies so they collect, analyze and share all the relevant information they can about the terrorist threat.

[Eloriel]

69. Oh, c'mon. He didn't even read it. None of them did.

Only a few had the guts to say they weren't going to vote for a bill they hadn't read. Hell, it grew from a few pages to over 400 behind their backs -- and the fools STILL voted for it.

Personally, I think any member of either House who votes for legislation that hasn't been thoroughly vetted by their most trusted aides, if not they themselves, ought to be run out of office on a rail. The Repugs have been pulling lots and lots of these games of "hurry up and vote" on legislation put together behind closed doors, and the Dems just keep falling for it.

They have no business being in office. PERIOD.

Eloriel

[mb7588a]

72. The Patriot Act was a necessary evil.

The whole thing was a giant committee-born compromise between the Department of Justice and Senators like Leahy and Feingold on the Judiciary Committee. Read the debate (http://www.cdt.org/security/011011senate.txt) on the Senate floor when Feingold tried to amend the bill. Daschle said, "Now, if we had opened the bill to amendment, I have no doubt there are many colleagues who would offer amendments with which I would vehemently disagree--in fact, so much so that I might want to filibuster the bill. I would probably lose.”

This was one of the smarter moves by Dascle. There were Repubs just ready and waiting, drooling with desire, to make this bill the anti-bill of rights.

http://www.mbare.org/patriotact.html (sorry for the bad formatting)


Essential Patriot Act reading:

Ashcroft 25 September 2001 Judiciary Committee testimony: http://judiciary.senate.gov/testimony.cfm?id=108&wit_id=42

Six Weeks in Autumn: "A year ago, as a nation reeled from attack, a battle was joined for America's future. Not in Afghanistan. In Washington": http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A1999-2002Oct22¬Found=true

Feingold's 12 October 2001 "On opposing the U.S.A. Patriot Act": http://www.archipelago.org/vol6-2/feingold.htm


Edit: added link to Senate floor debate - a MUST read.

[MadHound]

83. Sorry, but the Patriot Act was not necessary at all

All it was was an authoritarian's wet dream. We had all of the laws already in place to deal with terrorism, the Congress simply allowed themselves to be stampeded into relinquishing our rights.

[Monte Carlo]

75. Have you seen the language in the act?

It's a lot of 'replace these words in this law with these words' and so forth. It would have taken anyone, even lawyers like Kerry, a million years to read through it all. And I don't know if you remember or not, but the country was in a very hectic state of mind way back then.

[MadHound]

86. It is precisely when emotions are running high and the BS hip deep

That our represenatives need to keep their heads and wits about them, and not allow themselves to be stampeded into something foolish. Instead these reps wished to appear in solidarity with the Chimp in Chief, and to wave the flag, so they allowed the travesty of justice known as the Patriot Act be passed with nary a peep. All of them, 'Pugs and Dems, Kerry included, are responsible for foisting this travesty of justice upon us.

And now Kerry wants to replace this? With what? Why not just kick this POS to the curb where it belongs. Sorry, I don't buy it, and view Kerry's actions and remarks regarding the Patriot Act as another reason not to vote for him in the primaries. If he wants to come clean and repudiate the Patriot Act in it's entirety, then great, I would be more amendable to voting for him. But simply saying he wants to replace one POS with another POS isn't going to win many new votes

[blm]

89. Wellstone, Kennedy, Byrd, Harkin all voted for it WITH sunset clauses.

They were being careful. Replacing the Act with something less onerous on civil rights is the right thing to do.

Is everyone aware that on Sept. 14, 2001, Howie Dean said it was time to discuss the curtailing of some civil rights? That was THREE DAYS after 9-11.

Talk about keeping a cool head.

[MadHound]

91. Well then Kennedy, Byrd and Harkin were fools,

With or without a sunset clause. We didn't need to have any measure like the Patriot Act, we already had laws in place to deal with the situation. Bushco already had this abomination drawn up and the Congresscritters allowed themselves to be stampeded into passing it.

As for Dean, that doesn't suprise me. The only candidate who has been consistent about this matter is Kucinich, which is one of many reasons that he will be the only Dem who will get my vote, either in the primaries or the general. He had the foresight and guts to vote against it originally, and wants to repeal it when he gets into office.

The rest are simply hypocrites who are trying to lock the barn door after the horse is two years gone.

[ProfessorGAC]

88. I Agree!

The thing is 900 pages! There is no way that anyone could have read, in any depth, a doc put together in (supposedly) 30 days at 30 pages per day.

These guys voted fast because they were trying to assuage public concerns about safety and the gov't need to protect the citizens. But, they clearly have overreached and there was no way anyone knew everything that was in there. There are 6 months worth of research into that bill to truly understand it.

I don't have a problem with someone, like Kerry or anyone else, admitting that they acted too hastily and now need to rethink the situation. That's an honest way for an elected official to act.
The Professor

[louis-t]

5. Rock on...

...John.

[Forkboy]

6. It's great that he's saying this now

but why in the hell didn't he read the damn thing BEFORE voting for it?

[JohnKleeb]

7. Why in the hell didnt any of em

Anyways I hope Kucinich's Ben Franklin True Patriot Act Bill does well.

[americanstranger]

17. Last-minute replacement of the bill.

The night before it was voted on, the Republicans took the version that was being debated in the Senate and replaced every existing copy of it in the middle of the night. They then forced the vote the next morning.

I read an article in Rolling Stone where Russ Feingold described what happened. Needless to say, he was furious, but by then the ball was rolling, and anyone who tried to stop the vote would have been branded a terrorist supporter.

I'll try to find a link for this.

-as

[Forkboy]

20. I'd rather be listed as a terrorist supporter

(which I have been down in I/P lol) than to vote for something without knowing just what the hell it was.In other words they chose political safety over doing what was right.

[JohnKleeb]

42. Ive heard about the blackmail AS

and bless Feingold for doing what he felt right, I dont hate those who said yes, thank you John Kerry for speaking out about it now.

[Forkboy]

19. no kidding John

it's a damn disgrace.

I hope DK's bill goes somewhere too.He has so many good ideas.

[JohnKleeb]

41. Yeah I know

Ahh even if he dont win, I will still be proud to have supported him. Its endorsed by so many great people and groups,

[Cocoa]

38. read the speech

why comment on the speech if you haven't read it? I just don't get it.

[Forkboy]

39. I did read it...and it's a fine speech

you didn't know if I had read it or not so why comment about it? I just dont get it.

[Cocoa]

52. he said why he voted for it

your question makes as much sense as asking "great speech, but why didn't he say anything about the Patriot Act?"

[Forkboy]

56. I simply stated that he should have read the Patriot Act beforehand

I didn't ask why he voted for it.I've heard his reasons before.

[Eloriel]

70. He didn't comment on the speech.

He commented on Kerry voting for a bill he hadn't read. Nothing in the speech (short of an apology, which I can BET you isn't in there) would do.

Get it?

Eloriel

[Spazito]

8. Good Speech!

*

[Walt Starr]

9. It sounds like I need to reconsider Kerry!

This is good news.

[welshTerrier2]

10. i remember how it was

about a year ago, when DU'ers were desperate to find a voice, any voice, to stand up to all this right-wing extremist bullshit ...

we would have given anything to have any democrat stand up and say what Kerry said ... it was a very dark time ... it seemed that all, or at least most, elected democrats were afraid of the political fallout because bush was polling so high ...

and now, we get this absolutely great statement from Kerry ... and I'm not a Kerry supporter, btw ... but for christ sake, when the guy does something great, give him some credit ... every democrat, including candidates and DU'ers, should thank Kerry for his great message ... and every candidate should stand 100% behind this message ... this has to be part of every candidate's platform ...

still, it seems we've become so focussed on "the primaries" that we've lost sight of our issues ... just because you're supporting dean or clark (or anyone else) doesn't mean you can't take a deep breath and acknowledge that this was a great blow against the empire ...

thanks, Mr. Kerry ... you done good !!

[JohnKleeb]

14. I am not a Kerry supporter either Welsh but I think he nailed it here

:thumbsup: to a guy who I would like to have as senator, pres, and an endorsement I envy. BTW Its RFK Jr's endorsement I envy :D. Good for Kerry.

[sendero]

95. credit, yes...

.... but he has been WAY in debit territory for a long time for a variety of reasons.

This is the kind of stuff he should have been saying 3-5 months ago, when certain other candidates were already doing so.

This is just catch-up, imitating the front-runners, and while I welcome anyone who will stand up and speak the truth about this administration, it doesn't change the way I see Kerry at all. In fact, it fits his pattern perfectly.

[seventhson]

12. Kerry voted for it and NOW HE goes Ballistic

I went Ballistic wneh he voted for it.

Thanks Funkenstein, for establishing without doubt that Kerry VOTES with Bush and then acts like he didn';t mean it.

He says he OPPOSES actions he himself VOTED FOR.

He is a hypocrite, plain and simple. A fraud, in my opinion. HE of anyone, knew better than to ACT on this bill.

Now he prtetends it is an outrage.

Yet he voted for it.

Outrageous.

Thanks for reminding me, Funk.

(LOOK -- YOU get Kerry to publicly renounce and expose the Skull and Bones Order and membership on national tv and I MIGHT give him a second look. Frankly right now he scares me LESS than Clark, believe it or not)

[ima_sinnic]

28. at the time it was expedient to vote for it

. . . to do otherwise would have required courage and conviction.

now it is expedient to speak out against it.

whatever, John. it would have been SO nice to have heard an impassioned speech like this back when the bill was first introduced. He's supposed to "know about" the BFEE yet now he acts surprised that Bush is "abusing" the Patriot Act. How nice it would have been if someone had introduced some safety measures into the bill to prevent abuse by known criminals, the former Iran-Contra scum. What did he expect, anyway?

[seventhson]

31. Pleased to meetya

I'm a cynic too about Kerry AND Clark.

This hypocrisy sucks and makes it so obvious why Kerry is a loser with m,ost Americans who see right through him.

Even tho his initials are - HE is No JFK.

[DrFunkenstein]

33. I'll Call Him Up And Tell Him To Renounce Skull & Bones Pronto!

<>

Arr, me hardies!

[meow2u3]

79. Doesn't anyone remember?

Back in 2001, Cheney and Asscrack not only blackmailed Congress into voting for the Bill of Rights Nullification Act I by threatening to smear dissenters as "responsible for the next terrorist attack...", but the Bushies also prevented Congress from even looking at, let alone reading, the bill. The perps effectively told our reps, "Rubber-stamp my bill--or else!"

[Petrodollar Warfare]

13. The founders would consider the USA Patriot Act an...

...act of Treason. It contains provisions that are clearly against the fundamental principles of this nation, aginst the Declaration of Independence, against the Bill of Rights, and our Constitution.

Like Gore Vidal said the other day, if Bush and Ashcroft had showed up at the Constitutional Convention in the 1780s espousing their authoritarian ideas about "Freedom", the Founders would have had them hung from the nearest tree (for treason).

Good for Kerry for speaking forcefully about this issue. Every patriotic American - be they a Libertarian, Greene, Republican, Democrat, Natural Law Party, whatever, we all not to *protest* the USA PA and the provisions that Ashcroft pushed through lsat week under the radar. It is simple un-American and un-Constitutional.

"The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance" - Thomas Jefferson
(and BTW, he wasn't talking about being vigilant from an invasion from Canada or Mexico, but of the power of the gov't...and people like Ashcroft and Bush are showing that his warnings were warranted)

[Capn Sunshine]

15. That kicked ASS

when these things are articulated, we all win.

[Wonk]

16. Could you edit your subject line to prevent this from being locked?

2. The subject line of a discussion thread and the entire text of the message which starts the thread may not include profanity, excessive capitalization, or excessive punctuation. Inflammatory rhetoric should also be avoided.

[DrFunkenstein]

24. Does "Frig" Avoid The Realms of The Profane?

I'm just using my natural speaking voice, which tends to be mildly profane. As opposed to my druken speaking voice...

[bread_and_roses]

18. Good for Kerry

"We are a nation of laws and liberties, not of a knock in the night."
I like that phrase; I hope he developes the "knock in the night" theme.

[blm]

26. That phrase should rattle the Constitutionalists

on the right.

[XanaDUer]

21. Thank you for the great post, Dr. F!

:kick:

[oasis]

71. double thanks.

[Egnever]

22. This Administration has shown a pattern of abusing civil liberties

No shit?

Why do you keep falling for it then? Thats all I can think when I read kerry's posturing.

Kerry the guy that will come out strongly for a position long after everyone else has figured out its the right thing to do!

Yet again more posing from Kerry.

Thanks for the weekly posing pictures Funk. Knew we could count on you!

Also nice to knw kerry is a kneejerk reaction kind of guy.

"but this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act."

I think this describes his IWR vote well as well.

[welshTerrier2]

30. the choice is a simple one

i see things very differently than you do ... i am in total agreement with your comments on Kerry's past votes on the Patriot Act and certainly on IWR ... his votes stunk ...

but with an election on the line, it seems to me we want our candidates articulating our issues as forcefully and clearly as possible ... whether Kerry's speech was done solely for political gain or not, it helps our cause to have him so eloquently desseminate this message ...

democrats need every possible avenue to reach voters on the issues we care about ... if we fail to educate voters on where we stand and we fail to convince them that our view of the world is the right view, we're in for much more of the same ... kerry's speech clearly struct a blow for the good guys ... criticize his past votes ... but recognize the value to our party in his words ...

to narrowly focus on Kerry's candidacy or on Kerry as an individual seems to miss the greater benefit to the democratic cause ... will you choose to put the message above the messenger or has that become impossible for you ??

[Egnever]

37. you make a good point

And I agree with you. It is good he is saying these things despite the fact that he has almost no authority to say any of it now.

I agree the more people speeking of these things the better, I just wish he would do it before the fact instead of after.

[welshTerrier2]

40. i appreciate your openness

to my point ...

i'm really worried that, at least on DU, so many have become so candidate-focussed that they've lost sight of what we're fighting for ...

when a candidate, any candidate, gets it right, we all should say so ... let's never forget that we're all on the same team here ... beyond the struggle among candidates is a much greater struggle among ideologies ... it's important not to lose sight of the big picture ...

[Cronus Protagonist]

23. "Replacing" the PATRIOT Act? - Why not THROW IT OUT?

Sounds suspicious to me. Politicial doublespeak.



LICK BUSH Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[DrFunkenstein]

25. Damn Those Skull & Bones!!!

I knew it was too good!!!

[Tellurian]

59. Ha! Exactly what crossed my mind..

Elect ME president and I will (I promise on my S&B) create a new Law?

Why do we need a new Law?

The Constitution is FINE as written...

Roll it Back, NOW, if you want our Vote..

Otherwise, you need to depend on a multitude of lower indexed IQs to win the presidency...

[tinrobot]

27. This is good...

FINALLY the Democratic candidates seem to be finding their spines. It's looking like they're less and less afraid to speak out against the administration. I think the reason is that they're finding that these thoughts resonate with a LOT of people.

No matter who wins the nomination, this is good. I hope Dem candidates for other offices also take a clue from these guys as well.

[welshTerrier2]

35. nicely said, tr ...

and Welcome to DU !!!

i think you've hit on the key point ... bush's sky high poll ratings are g-g-g-g-g-g-one ... and now all hell will break loose ...

the american people really have not heard much from the democrats ... but things have become so partisan that democrats are no longer afraid to swing for the fences ...

there's nothing to be gained by playing it too nice anymore ...

[Melinda]

32. President Gore gave the same speech 3 weeks ago...

and it was fabulous too. Glad to see Senator Kerry picking up the call. Thanks, Sen. Kerry. :)

[Myra]

34. Nice to see him speaking out about it, tho' I wish he'd voted against it.

Hell, I don't think most members of congress even read the
damn thing. It was just soooooo long. So long in fact that
it clearly couldn't haven't been written in the immediate
aftermath of 911.

[DrFunkenstein]

43. Why Kerry Voted For The Patriot Act In The First Place

Much of what is in Patriot Act are good ideas. The Act increased penalties for terrorists, limited the statute of limitations for terrorist crimes, and allowed for greater prosecution of overseas acts against America. I fought to include important money laundering restrictions to clamp down on the cash flowing to terrorist enterprises. I had been pushing for these ideas since the late nineties – and after September 11th they were more important than ever.

I voted for the Patriot Act right after September 11th – convinced that – with a sunset clause – it was the right decision to make. It clearly wasn’t a perfect bill – and it had a number of flaws – but this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act.

But George Bush and John Ashcroft abused the spirit of national action after the terrorist attacks. They have used the Patriot Act in ways that were never intended and for reasons that have nothing to do with terrorism. That’s why, as President, I will propose new anti-terrorism laws that advance the War on Terror while ending the assault on our basic rights.

(W)e need to strengthen the laws that actually do help us combat terrorism and keep America safe. This is some of the hard-work of fighting terrorism which the Administration has all too often failed to do. In the months leading up to September 11th, two of the hijackers were arrested for drunk driving -- and another was stopped for speeding and then let go even though he was the subject of an arrest warrant in a neighboring county and was on a federal terrorist watch list. Firefighters and law enforcement must have access to critical data so they can connect the dots. And we need to simplify and streamline the 58 national terrorist watch lists and make sure they’re available to the right people on the frontlines.

Four of the five terrorists who crashed an airliner into the Pentagon had false IDs. If teenagers trying to buy beer can falsify IDs, can we be surprised when terrorists can fake driver’s licenses and visas? It’s time for a new generation of smart driver’s licenses and IDs that use encrypted technology so they can’t be forged. Instead of the assault on our civil liberties that John Ashcroft is waging, we need to rely on new technology that can protect our privacy and our county at the same time. We need to reform our intelligence agencies so they collect, analyze and share all the relevant information they can about the terrorist threat.

[IndianaGreen]

50. "Much of what is in Patriot Act are good ideas"?

Yeah, if your name is Oliver North!

[Myra]

67. I appreciate your response..."Dr" :), I *really* do

And I know none of the candidates are perfect.
But I can't go for a candidate who voted
to invade Iraq, let alone a candidate who
voted to invade Iraq *and* voted for the "Patriot Act."

Not trying bash, just saying those are showstopping
issues for me.

[tom_paine]

36. I like what Kerry says

He's one of my top choices and I would be happy to support him as the nominee.

[Andy_Stephenson]

44. John always waits till another time...Like BCCI...

"That’s why, as President, I will propose new anti-terrorism laws that advance the War on Terror while ending the assault on our basic rights."

If it was bad law a year ago and will still be bad law a year from now...Why Wait John???
:wtf:

[cindyw]

45. Repubs control the agenda in congress.

Reality is we have to wait till a new pres. Anything suggesting we can do it sooner is unrealistic.

[sistersofmercy]

46. Kerry...

looks absolutely presidential in the bottom photo. I applaud the speech! Bravo, JK, Bravo!

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

64. Hopefully they'll respond!

HA HA! Nothing like free press!

[mitchum]

48. kick

[evil_orange_cat]

49. he's so phony...

I don't buy his anger... he's part of the problem. Democrats in Congress giving Bush the power to go to war... enabling John Ashcroft.

"this wasn’t the time to haggle. It was the time to act"

BS

You don't let fear and political intimidation sway your vote.

go away ketchup boy...

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

57. Kerry has struck a lot of nerves

[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[evil_orange_cat]

62. zzzZZZzzz

he's just another phony politician

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[evil_orange_cat]

65. lol, why waste my time, I know a phony when I see one

:P

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

68. neeener neener neener

what's next from you two,"I know you are but what am I?"

[blm]

90. That's exactly the meme that the Nixon White House started 30 yrs. ago.

And the Reagan and Bush White House furthered the rhetoric against Kerry when he was investigating and exposing them on BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning. Nice to see so many Dems showing support for and furthering those memes in such a bipartisan fashion. Why don't you also agree with Cheney who called Kerry a "conspiracy theory nut" and really show your true colors?

[evil_orange_cat]

61. yup, I don't like hypocritical Bush enablers...

he's jumping on the anti-war bandwagon and anti-patriot bandwagon when he voted for both measures...

sorry I want an honest president, not another liar.

[Octafish]

73. Kerry's fought Bush and Bush's Old Man.

No one else running for President has fought BFEE corruption like Sen. Kerry. John Kerry uncovered the criminal Bank of Credit and Commerce International. That outlaw bank served drug runners, arms traffickers, international terrorists and the CIA.

Seeing how you are so profoundly against Bush, check out Iran-Contra drug running. Sen. Kerry's investigations uncovered links between the Reagan-Bush White House where Adm. Poindexter and Ollie North (secret boss?) made money for war criminals in Central America by importing drugs to the US.

Who's your horse? What did she do? Proudly dodge the draft?

[blm]

92. Dean said he would have voted for Biden-Lugar version of IWR

which had the same provision as IWR that he now attacks the others. Bush had the authority to "determine" whether the threat was grave enough to use force.

Dean has been deceptive this entire time about his actual position and his attacks on the others for IWR.

[xxqqqzme]

53. Gore's MoveOn sponsored speech

dissected squatter & asscrack's supression of Constitutional freedoms beautifully. It was a masterful attack. It was about a month AGO. Perhaps Kerry missed it.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

54. APPLAUSE

:toast:

peace

[Tellurian]

55. Kerry Needs to be President to Roll Back the Pats Act?

Big Words Senator..

Show me!

I've just moved to Missouri, the Show me State, if you want my Vote..

[Octafish]

74. Kerry's coattails would be long enough to change Congress.

That means John Kerry, as President, then would have the ability to get legislation passed to make life better for all Americans. At least that's how it would be in a Kerry Administration, based on his RECORD of accomplishment. He's devoted almost his entire adult life to public service, helping advance Democratic causes from early child development, public education, environmental protection, social security, health care, organized labor, to small business. And he's got a vision of what America can be. Unlike most other candidates, Kerry has been a leading proponent of keeping America the strongest nation in the world. That means militarily and diplomatically abroad, and through an enlightened and free people at home.

[Puglover]

76. I thought the time for Kerry et. al. to go ballistic was

when Ashcroft when addressing the senate made the comment. "Make no mistake about it; anyone questioning this act is aiding and abetting the enemy" I may have some of that quote wrong but that's the gist. We were listening to MPR and I heard this live in Dec. 2001. I waited for the uproar and all I heard were the crickets.

[Octafish]

77. Kerry voted against appointing Crisco Ashcan AG.

Too bad he couldn't get the Republican majority to go along with him, huh?

Good point you make, though. The best time would've been to stop or ammend the legislation before it got made into law. The USA PATRIOT Act got rammed through in the rush to fight terror after 9-11. The Repugs controlled Congress, then, and used all their trickery to put the thing on middle-of-the-night fast-track.

The speech you refer to, IIRC, was when Ashcroft addressed the Senate Judiciary Committee. It was after the law's passage.

BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, pjeffrey4444! Let's get the heat on Congress, who already are sneaking in PATRIOT Act 2 legislation as parts of other bills.

[Puglover]

78. Thanks for the welcome...

I remember the moment so well because we were driving through southern minnesota on the way to my Moms funeral. Sorry, I thought it had not been voted through yet. It just absolutely stunned me that someone didn't have the nads to call Asscroft on such an idiotic comment. I'm no brain surgeon but if someone was being such a demagogue around me I'd certainly call them on it.

[JackRiddler]

80. Sorry, I prefer someone who got it right the FIRST time...

Kerry should have voted it down, no excuse. But he and colleagues were too busy running away in panic from the anthrax attacks (something that has been consistently ignored as an important factor in that vote).

Here are some new acronyms for USA PATRIOT Act:

Underground Shadow Authority Pushes Anthrax-Terrorized Representatives Into Obliterating Tolerance.

USA's Protesters And Thinkers Relocated Into Overcrowded Tents Allowing Constitutional Torture  

Under Surveillance, Always Pretend-Acting True Republican, If Only To Assure Correct Treatment.

Unique, Severe Anti-People Act Threatens Rape Imminent Of Truth

Another one (PATRIOT only)

Please Assume The Right Is Overlord Totally

Uncle Sam's Authoritarian Pigs At Trough Revel In Others' Tragedies

Guaranteeing Every Single Taxpaying American Peace and Order

Probably Ashcroft Thinks Religion Is Only Truth, And Channels Torquemada.

Probably America Thinks Rove Impeccable, Orrin Truthful, Ashcroft Compassionate. Tragic.

Uber-Satanic, Anti-Patriotic, Anti-Truth, Riot-Inducing Overt Tyranny.

[Hep]

81. Now Kerry wants to be the angry candidate?

It took this long to adopt Deans strategy? Too little too late? He VOTED for the patriot act! Did he not read it beforehand?

[Ripley]

82. His waffles are still warm.

Now he's trying to serve them up with a new and improved maple syrup.

He gave Smirk and Ashcroft blank checks and now pretends he didn't really do that.

[DrFunkenstein]

93. This Isn't Anger, This Is Righteous Indignation

Kerry knows the difference between rage and outrage.

<>

<>

[sistersofmercy]

96. "This is righteous indignation." Fabulous retort!

:evilgrin:

[Nihil]

84. Interesting alternative he proposes ...

> It’s time for a new generation of smart driver’s licenses and IDs that
> use encrypted technology so they can’t be forged ... we need to rely on
> new technology that can protect our privacy and our county at the same time.
> We need to reform our intelligence agencies so they collect, analyze and
> share all the relevant information they can about the terrorist threat

So he's proposing "smart card" IDs (presumably compulsory else they
don't work) and "reformed" intelligence agencies that can mine & share
all the information they can?

I've read through the replies to date and I'm surprised that no-one
seems to mind that this is remarkably similar to the old TIA scheme.

(Note: I have no particular axe to grind in the candidate wars that
seem to occupy ~90% of the forums these days - just have my own views
on ID cards and their abuse.)

Nihil

[Butterflies]

85. Go John!

I knew he had it in him :D

[TLM]

94. So if Dean shot you in the gut with a .22

then offered to take the bullet out and patch you up... would you say that made him a good doctor or a bad doctor?

[sistersofmercy]

97. Huh?

[Forkboy]

98. oooo...I like that analogy

:)

[regnaD kciN]

99. A fine speech. The irony, of course...

...is that, had Kerry not tried to cover his backside by voting for IWR (a step which was presumably to make sure he stayed a "mainstream" candidate, but which instead had the opposite effect), he might now have been viable enough that his words might had made an impact.

:-(