Let's be honest: Had Nader sat out in 2000

[FuriousMNDem]

Over 400 American soldiers would probably still be alive.

Gore said he would not have gone into Iraq.

Go ahead, flame me, but it's the truth.

[theivoryqueen]

1. No arguments here

[Booberdawg]

2. Time to move FORWARD

[htuttle]

Live Bait

Get it while it's fresh...

:eyes:

[ulysses]

3. hey, a psychic!

Will I get a raise soon?

Tell me, what do you make of the fact that the GOP stole the election?

[FuriousMNDem]

6. Nader enabled them to steal it. (n/t)

[ulysses]

11. had Nader never existed

they've have stolen it anyway. What's a few thousand more disappeared Florida votes?

[AntiCoup2K4]

21. The difference between Gore and Shithead in Florida was less than 1%

...With Nader out of the loop and Gore likely having the additional 2% of the vote, a 3% margin would have been considerably harder to steal.

[htuttle]

25. Did you see the documentary 'Unprecedented'?

It's about the 2000 election, and has been running on Sundance the last few months.

Among other things it pointed out, it was quite clear that had Gore asked for a statewide recount, instead of a smaller 'targeted county' recount, he would have easily won. Gore himself said that he probably *should* have asked for a statewide recount, but his political advisors thought it would be better to target those counties where he thought he'd done well. Whoops.

There were a WHOLE number of things that could have changed the outcome of that election. Focusing on Nader to the exclusion of the rest of them is a crass Republican ploy to divert attention from the crime that was Florida 2000.

If your handle is 'AntiCoup2k', you should already know this...

[Terwilliger]

31. that doesn't matter

the DNC machine has made Ralph Nader the reason for all the problems of the left, and there are certain folks who take that info trinket at face value and gladly regurgitate it

[AntiCoup2K4]

34. I'm well aware of everything Jeb, Kate, Baker, etc did to steal Florida

However, in spite of all that, the extra 2% that went to Nader would given Gore the clear victory and spared the recount fiasco altogether. Ralph has been quoted as saying that he hoped Junior DID win, so that it would force the Democrats to the left. Obviously that strategy failed as well.

[LandOLincoln]

38. Gore DID ask for a statewide recount..

in the first week or so after the election. Bush refused. Go figure :shrug:

And Nader siphoned off something like 93,000 Florida votes.
The bottom line is, Nader intended to throw the election to Bush all along.

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20010423Baker.html

and this time around he'll most likely have to run as an Independent, because us Greens have wised up. (I voted for Gore, in case anyone's interested, and have been holding off changing my registration back to Dem because I want to set my Green card on fire and shove it up Nader's duplicitous arse first).

http://realchange.org/nader.htm

[htuttle]

13. So don't blame the Republicans, Don't blame the prostitute press

Don't blame the Brooks Brothers Riot, Don't blame the Supreme Court.

In fact, don't blame any of the real problems. Find a scapegoat.

Nader! (flame) (Good boy, here's a biscuit...)

[Paragon]

4. Let's be honest:

Dumbest flame thread ever.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

7. threadjack..

POOTIE!



TWL

[KG]

5. truth? sound like conjecture.

[genius]

8. It's up to us to see it doesn't happen again.

If Dean gets the nomination, more than the Greens will refuse to vote for him. Lifelong Democrats are saying they just can't vote for Dean.

[tom_paine]

9. No flames here. I agree.

An argument could also be made that 9-11 would never have happened.

Gore would have NEVER ognored all the warnings. He would have alerted the airports. Gore's Air Force (for whatever reason) would have scrambled jets out of Andrews instead of sitting idle.

Gore would have NEVER rejected the terrorism report that suggested heightened security at airports and other precautions in 2001.

Why the Busheviks did all these things is open to the interpretive question: Incompetent or treasonous?

But the fact is that many horrible things that have happened would not have happened had President Gore been allowed to take his rightful position.

Of course, the Busheviks probably would have had him Kennedied or Wellstoned for the same reasons they Kennedied Kennedy and Wellstoned Wellstone, so perhaps by giving up the Presidency saved his life.

[Terwilliger]

10. Let's be honest: Dems couldn't lead a boy scout troop

They're so piss-poor that they blame Ralph Nader for all their woes.

[noiretextatique]

12. american dreamers

so resigned to the inevtiable the misdeeds of the republican party (disenfranshisement, scotus...etc.) as to completly exempt it from the current mess. rest in peace.

[ramapo]

14. If JFK hadn't been killed....

GW Bush wouldn't be living in the White House

[roughsatori]

15. If the Dems had bothered to challenge the disenfranchisement

of African-American voters in Florida you could probably make the same hypothetical case. Or that if those Dems did NOT vote for IWR those soldiers (as well as the civilians from Afghanistan and Iraq that you leave out of the human toll) might still be alive.

Since so many Dems voted for IWR and the Patriot Act it is disingenuous to claim it would be so different if the Dems had not had the election stolen by the Republicans.

(Your post indicates that you don't believe the Republicans stole the election--I disagree with you on that.)


I did not vote for Nader.

[frylock]

16. QUIT SCAPEGOATING NADER ALREADY!!!

Nader DID NOT cost Gore the election. The more you folks dwell on this, the less likely the real issues that cost Gore the election will ever be fixed! SCOTUS cost Gore the election. Disenfranchised black voters in FL cost Gore the election. Butterfly ballot cards cost Gore the election. LET IT FUCKING GO.. PLEASE. The more you harp on this, the more you alienate the Greens who frequent this board, and want to help rid the nation of Bush.

Question: Did Nader also cost Gore his home state of Tennessee?
Answer: NO!

Spin it all you want, but Gore LOST HIS OWN FUGGIN STATE!!!

[el_gato]

17. that's bullshit, they were determined to steal the election

and they did, no matter what nader or gore did, it was us, the american people, that let this all happen when we didn't riot in the streets to stop the theft

it's easy to blame someone else since you don't have to live up to your own failure

[GainesT1958]

18. And, while we're at it...

ANGRYMNDEM--We could also mention that it would have been FAR LESS LIKELY that 9-11 would have happened, or certainly not on such a grand scale. Along with a continued Federal Budget surplus, continued reduction in the National Debt, continued economic prosperity (at the very least a quicker recovery from any recession), etc.

But that's around 600+ of our men and women in uniform who would have still been alive to enjoy the holidays with their loved ones...along with close to 2900 others from Sept 11, 2001, who would've had three more holiday seasons with family and friends under their belts.:cry:

Yes, the world would be a LOT BETTER--not to mention safer--place today if the Scalia Five, with a little help from Jeb Boy and Cruella Deville in Fla., had not been able to hold sway. And had ONE-TENTH of Ralphie Boy's supporters in Florida voted for Al Gore instead--that's right; one-tenth of 30,000 votes is, of course, 3000--we wouldn't even have to think about it, hanging chads or no hanging chads. All we'd be talking about at DU today would be President Gore running for re-election in 2004--and fighting Tom Delay and those nasty Repub dogs in Congress!:eyes:

The next Repub who tries to tell me that Dub is a "uniter, not a divider", I'm going to CLOBBER...with the TRUTH, that is! :mad:

There's a NEW cancer growing on the presidency--and we've got to EXCISE him from it next November 2nd. The survival of this very nation is at stake.

:kick:

B-)

[bvar22]

19. WOW...Nader is the MOST POWERFUL MAN ON EARTH!!!

maybe in the UNIVERSE. Nader cuased the Invasion of Iraq, 911, killed 400 American soldiers, invaded Afghanistan, defeated Al Gore, destroyed the Democratic Party.....man, what a SUPERMAN!!!!!

Is NADER THAT STRONG.... or the Democratic Party that WEAK????

Nader stole NOTHING!. Al Gore and the Democratic Party threw away those votes. They had the poll numbers, they KNEW how many would vote for Nader in Florida, and chose to DISCARD those votes in order to please their Corporate Backers!

Nader is a mere man. His message is POWERFUL.

[DS1]

20. NOT AS POWERFUL AS ME!!!

Signed,
Clinton's Penis

[bvar22]

22. Grin.

You win, DS1!

[ajacobson]

23. Pure flame bait

But lets face it, there are scads of people who are just FIXATED on 2000 and will not let a moment pass without dwelling on it.

What in the hell do you think you can do about it now? OTHER THAN WHINING? Please illuminate the purpose of this to me.

[KG]

24. don't see naders name on the IWR

but i saw 2 presidential candidates proudly standing with the chimp in the rose garden that couldn't wait to hand over the ability to invade irag to a moron and his henchmen.

[bambo53]

26. How about this...

What if Nader had won? What would the world, or at least our little part of it, look like today?

[leftofthedial]

27. get over it!

get over it? NEVER!!

you are dead on right.

Nader is a neocon accomplice.

[cally]

28. I despise Nader

I despised him before 2000, but his actions increased my hatred. I've never seen him as a progressive. When I worked for a Nader organization, he tried to stop us from and feminist actions and environmental actions. He did not treat his staff well. I have seen him as an egomaniac and not a true progressive ever since.

I understand the greens frustration. Much contributed to Chimp holding office. The disenfrachisement of African-American voters and the lack of the Democrats for speaking out. The BBV, and not counting the votes. I hold the Democratic party responsible for much of this but I also hold Nader and his campaigning in close states, too.

I support Greens for local elections. I will help build a party from the grassroots, but I refuse to support a national candidate. It just seems like an attempt to create a progressive party from the top down instead of from the base. I never understood why Greens supported Nader. He has never been a great environmentalist. On a national scale, they only act as spoilers.

[KG]

29. don't see naders name on the IWR

but i saw 2 democratic presidential candidates proudly standing with the chimp in the rose garden that couldn't wait to hand over the ability to invade iraq to a moron and his henchmen.

[Noordam]

30. You are so right and all the BS from the Nadarights

will not change that. 96,000 people in Florida voted for Gore. If 1/3 of the Nadar ppl did not vote, then who would the others voted for Bush or Gore.

Nadar has alway hated the Democratic party and has done everything he could to kill it.

[Terwilliger]

32. "Nadar has alway hated the Democratic party "

have any proof of that?

[el_gato]

33. dream on, it's easier than living in reality

they stole that election outright
and they planned on it

[Pastiche423]

35. If Nader has sat out 2000...

Jeb and Katherine would still have purged 57,500 names from the FL voting registry, some blacks would still have been prevented from reaching the FL voting booths, voting machines would still have been rigged, but most important of all...

SCOTUS WOULD STILL HAVE APPOINTED WHISTELASS!

Are you really that naive as to what the repugs have been doing for the past three decades? Everyone of you that blame Nader are showing true ignorance about the last thirty years of our country's political history.

[Q]

36. I'm still waiting...

...for one of the "Nader-Haters" to start a thread to discuss the 2000 election from a more truthful aspect.

- We can probably agree on one thing: Bush* is the most corrupt president* in American history. His side has control of the media and all the major corporations have contributed more money to his campaign than any other in 200 years. He sneers at the Constitution and is untouchable by the laws of the land. He can lie, cheat and steal and get away with it.

- And yet...some have nothing better to discuss than Nader. How does this help Democrats in 2004? The answer is that it doesn't help them...and only serves to alienate those trying to find a reason to vote Democratic.

[jono]

37. Locking.

The moderators have discussed this thread and we feel that it is inflammatory. I'm going to lock this now.

Thanks,
Jono
DU Moderator