Would you support a nationwide liberal newspaper?

[sweetheart]

Given that you all are writers for an informal digital newspaper underground, what is the gap between DU and USA Today? Why can't we take DU to another level and produce say a weekly print rag. That would get us "press" cards and we could go to whitehouse briefings and whatnot.

Were we to prepare the business plans, how many of you are sooooo in love with your day jobs that escalating DU in to weekly or daily print does not inspire? Surely this is well thought out by other wiser folks than myself, but i'm asking. If we pitch to the democratic funding people USA today with the editorial pitch of the UK Guardian.

I know several folks have been up to regional radio and book publishing, but its not got the power of a newspaper... and perhaps there might be, if enough interest existed, the potential of getting Mr. Soros and whomever to back a liberal news to tell the truth.

"News of America" Surely were we to pitch and fund it as a nationwide paper from the outset, it would have more impact on american politics than all of our witterings on this site put together. Why not?

[Racenut20]

1. That would be a good idea

[arewethereyet]

2. we have two really big ones already

and I don't pay for them though I review their web sites

[Kathleen04]

4. Which ones?

[arewethereyet]

5. NY Times & Wash Post

some might argue that they are not liberal but they don't deny it.

I check out the NYT website regularly. Post has been crap for decades.

[sweetheart]

8. NNOT what i mean

I'm more along the lines of the guardian/BBC... quality depth reporting of the intelligence and truthfulness of "the economist" except with a socialist bent.

Those newspapers are crap, and only good for house training a dog.

plus, you can't get them in most of the country...

There is NO LIBERAL NEWSPAPER.

[arewethereyet]

10. more of a progressive paper then ?

POst probably isn't all that available but I thought that the Times was generally available.

They are liberal, if crap, but it sounds like you would prefer something rather left of liberal ala progressive.

[sweetheart]

6. name them

Where are 2 LIBERAL newspapers that are not city newspapers, but nationwide available in front of your hotel room door.

My experience is wall stree journal and USA today... both are not even remotely liberal. Wash post and NYT are a joke. Times Mirror also a joke. On the level of UK guardian, what national 2 LIBERAL newspapers are you seeing?

[arewethereyet]

7. Post is a joke NYT has become more of a bad joke

but they're both liberal and often appear at the door in hotels.

[Catholic Sensation]

9. are you high?

The Post is Murdoch's shit

[arewethereyet]

12. every time I read it I see liberal

but I won't argue that it's shit. Murdochian or otherwise.

[NashVegas]

22. If You Think the NYT Is Liberal You Must Read a Lot of Newsmax

Try picking up the New Yorker sometime. Try surfing over to the Guardian. Then you might have an idea what a liberal rag looks like.

[arewethereyet]

29. its all a matter of perspective

I have seen those that you mention. New Yorker is a magazine, not a news source, different animal altogether. Guardian is somewhat left of NYT, more onto the progressive side.

Some see Clinton as liberal, others see him as centrist, others still as right wing. By traditional standards (those that I opt to use) he's liberal. By those same standards, so is the NYT.

I would agree that Newsmax would be rather more to the right of say WSJ.

Honestly I like hitting many sources. I find it interesting, sometimes just for some good old eye rolling back humor !

I'm comfortable enough with my identity and values that this sort of stuff is of no real effect.

[sweetheart]

11. Then there is a market

If those morons claim liberality, then theres about a million miles of target market they've missed... plus they're east coast city papers without the common reach as the USA today.

The idea i mean is more like "American people today".

Sorry if i've been overly assertive... just the 2 you mention are not liberal by real standards.

[arewethereyet]

13. we may have to agree to disagree regarding standards

by a progressive's standard, no they are not. By anyone else, yes they are. LATimes can stand in for the Post out on the left coast.

[sweetheart]

15. Ok, so the market is nationwide, not a city

Next time you're driving through Kansas, notice how many copies of those papers you see... likely its USA today ONLY besides the local rag.

The problem with the city papers is they narrowly define news round the city, and though it may appear many national things are there, much of the excess is irrelevant if you're in Montana... and hence... no market.

Next question. What does it cost to print a colour nationwide rag at regional distribution centers and get it to market? What is the funding requirement?

Once you see the paper i see in my minds eye, you'll never read the NYT or WP again... and all the writers are sitting here twiddling their thumbs 'cuz their IT jobs are extinguished. We simply need a coherent business plan and a serious run at financing.

Give it 2 years to achieve breakeven. Charge for the paper and focus less on advertising... like make sure the paper breaks even on circulation that way advertizers have no corporate censorship powers.

[arewethereyet]

24. I would welcome the fresh air

I'll take your word for the Kansas thing. Just cuz NYT seems to be everywhere I go only means so much as I don't travel that extensively.

City papers just run the AP and a little local. Cookie cutter due strictly to the numbers game.

Papers cost more than you think and are published a lot more locally that you would guess, try at your local paper's press. Once again for cost containment. You are looking at like $5 a copy which makes it a weekly and a good marketing plan.

I really don't think you want IT guys writting, its harder than it looks and they (actually we, I'm one) don't have the skills. My brother-in-law used to be a newspaper man which is where I'm stealing this material from, not a new idea, we've talked about this over beers before.

Best to hook up with Gore or whoever is trying to get that radio thing going, complimentary marketing is a good idea. Plus they already know the money people.

Have to warn you, newspapers are dying and it was the internet that drove the last few stakes through the heart. May want to think internet portal, say building a whole information structure around the DU chat zones. Big competition there so you would do well to partner with a DU or other portal already established.

Just some thoughts...

[sweetheart]

26. The problem with the internet

Thanks for that insight.

The difficulty with the internet is that only the richest people are on it demographically speaking... and the audience of mass readership is missed. As long as it is on line, it can be denied as heresay.

There is a tremendous power in bricks and morter, and though i have high speed internet, i still get "the economist", "the financial times" and whatever print paper i can get my mits on.

I figure a significant portion of the production goes towards sports, food, weather and whatnot. By cutting that out, and making the paper really about political and economic issues in real life america, the readers will feel they have more depth of coverage than with any other paper.

I refer to the www.ft.com website. They've produced a portal, which i am certianly not against, but notice how they have subscription features that only appear in the print or paid-online versions. This inspires readers to the paper.

Also, the paper forces you to scan stories you might skip online... and this editorial power to "make news" is not as powerful online. A great DU thread might miss my perusal for a boring headline.

Until there is 100% of american citizens getting news online, newspapers are superior... just go get a cupa coffee at 7am tomorrow in the local hotel and see if the breakfasting guests are reading news on their laptops, or the paper... my point.

[arewethereyet]

28. same problem, different scenarios

expensive paper or access ?

you can surf at public libraries around here but again the average Joe who can't afford internet probably isn't going to the library after a double shift anymore than he'll be willing to plop down $5 for a paper he's too tired to read.

I like the paper, don't get me wrong, but that industry is hurting right now and has been for some time. I'm not clever enough to know how to solve that apart fro hitching it to a larger concept (CNN.COM piggybacked to CNN for example).

[tom_paine]

3. Hell yes I would...

[DCDemo]

14. I'd subscribe and work for it

If this goes anywhere, gimme a PM. I work with Newspapers now and could certainly help on the biz side.

[Robbien]

16. Rabid right winger is trying to highjack this thread

I wonder if they are paid to distract and disrupt?

[sweetheart]

20. he's a friend

He's giving us the normal sort of question a venture capitalist will ask us... and getting the idea to flesh out further... the proposal is for a truly nationwide paper, that leaves football results to USA today... but has outstanding coverage of international news and real issues around american political life.... real coverage of corporate news censored by corporate papers...

The right wing is scared shitless of a liberal newspaper, as any reader will so much see truth in the pages, that they will immediately have an understanding about the existing newspapers and how much fiction they contain.

[Robbien]

25. Sorry, but the tactics seemed to me to be

a deliberate distraction. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

It is not so much a liberal newspaper the regime in charge of our country dreads. They fear a newspaper that would be truly free of their restraints.

[sweetheart]

27. those editorial constraints

You see right on regarding breaking the censorship of editorial mediocrity. The emperor's new clothes are lookin' a bit thin. ;-)

I've recently spent some time back writing on Pravda, which makes DU look like a protected safe swimming spot with lifeguards... as www.pravda.ru has no censorship at all. It is hard to discern truth, as the most racist and whacky writers can find supporting evidence for their insanity on the web SOMEWHERE.

This fellow you call a distruptor, merely challenges ideas, and that is GOOD. Disrupting is to me far more hateful that after reading a truly disrupting post, i feel sick, needing to defend my integrity or generally like i've been rudely slighted... and thankfully, DU is most polite company.

Thanks for your remarks. I'm inspired. The vision of truly liberal media in america IS COMING. Our job as public writers for the moment is to make it as solid and coherent that it keeps coming up for people... and happens.

[Beaker]

17. I'd prefer something that is HONESTLY "fair & balanced".

a newspaper that's blindly partisan to the left is just as bad as one that bends over backwards to the right.

[Robbien]

18. I agree, anything that does not cater to corporate

or special monied interests would be a breath of fresh air.

[NashVegas]

19. Coming this winter: Guardian USA

I think it's supposed to start up in January.

[sweetheart]

23. i'll believe it when i see it

I've heard that rumor myself several times over. I've written to the editors of the guardian some time back suggesting exactly that... if they do it... then great....

I've seen this tactic in the software industry. Small company X launches a new product. When the product comes out, a huge gorilla like IBM says "we're releasing a similar product 2 years from now." Then nobody buys small company product as they'd rather have the IBM version... and 2 years later, small company is dead, and IBM does not launch the product.

Do you have HARD evidence of this rumor?

[frank frankly]

21. I would sure as hell support it

:kick:

[maggrwaggr]

30. Yes! This country needs this more than anything else

more than anything this country needs media that tells the truth.

I would support it 100%

[sweetheart]

31. funding a newspaper

Clearly to achieve this objective then, the paper must not derive any editorial control from advertizers... and methinks there is a large market of liberal potential advertizers who will not frequent the corrupt state-mouthpeice sheets of today.

The truth... wow. What a bloody simple idea... why is it so out of vogue?