So why doesn't Ralph Nader ever run as a democrat?

[MIMStigator]

it's hard to think of any reason besides attention seeking for anyone to run as a third party knowing he will help install Bush* again.

Anyone who helps install * is a real scumbag.

Why doesn't Ralph just run as a democrat?

[John_H]

1. He would have to file financial disclosures.

Which he won't do since that would spell the end of his support--even from his 'bots.

[Terwilliger]

2. KLATUU BARADA NADER

he wasn't required to disclose finances due to the nature of the status of the Green party

[John_H]

12. Apparently the Greens didn't make him do it.

it's a matter of course for every democratic candidate I'm aware of.

[WillyBrandt]

14. What does this mean?

"he wasn't required to disclose finances due to the nature of the status of the Green party"

I don't understand what this means.

And what does it matter whether it is required. If he's running for President, and taking himself seriously (both are true), then he should release financial records regardless of whether he legally must or not.

I really do not understand your point.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[WillyBrandt]

25. Yes, but what did you mean

What does it matter whether Nader was required to disclose financial information or not? If he is a serious person running for President, he should in any case.

You dodged the question in the first instance, and are ignoring it in the second.

[Name removed]

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[Old and In the Way]

47. Why don't you respond to the core question of the post?

I am very interested in hearing your thoughts as to why he doesn't run from the inside. He apparently has the most "democratic" message...so why not run in the Democratic primaries?

Or is it that his ego is more suited to general elections?

[jiacinto]

10. Yeah

You mean, the mutual fund portfolio that owns stocks in such great corporate citizens such as:

Wal-Mart
Microsoft
The Altria Group (Formerly Known as Philip Morris)
Clear Channel Communications
Exxon Mobil

and other great companies.

[MIMStigator]

11. But that would make him a hypocrite wouldn't it

you're not saying he's a hypocrite are you

[jiacinto]

13. You figure it out

nt

[SahaleArm]

29. They don't call him Fidelity Ralph for nothing...

:evilgrin:

[Forkboy]

3. good God

will you children please go to bed.

[Paragon]

5. LOL

Couldn't have put it better myself. ;-)

[WillyBrandt]

4. Because the blood of our soldiers

is, in his mind, a small price to pay for the stoking of his vanity.

Because, perhaps, he has a small group of rabid followers who disconnect their politics from reality, and are happy to wreak hell if let's them think that they're lurching towards heaven.

Because Greens have confused "Strength from Diversity" with "Strength from Division."

Because Greens think their tender consciences--which may never be called into question--are more important than making sure thousands of soldiers aren't shot in the face, tens of thousands of civilians aren't killed, old people aren't left to suffer and shit in their beds unaided, children aren't left with rotten teachers and a desparate future.

Because Greens never make the connection between those horrid realities and their individual vote.

Because Greens indulge in sophistry to simultaneously pretend that they must vote Green so that their vote will matter, and that since the Democrats often lose for many reasons, that their vote does not matter.

Because Greens cannot help but revel in sophistry, since they follow the master sophist himself: Ralph Nader.

[MIMStigator]

7. oh I see.

thank you

[WillyBrandt]

9. Can you think of a better explanation

I think that sums it up. Naderism is the marriage of toddlerhood and politics.

[jiacinto]

8. What a great post

nt

[ShaneGR]

16. Best Nader post........ ever

Mix in his financial holdings and there can be no reply of the Nadophiles.

[Name removed]

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[Ardee]

22. they cannot all be this stupid,T

or can they?

[WillyBrandt]

28. The superior wisdom of the deluded

Sorry, always forget about that. While I'm plodding with slow rationality, I must remember to defer to the wrong.

There is a political reality attached to my votes and my activism. Doing one thing makes outcome X that much more likely; doing another thing makes outcome X that much less likely.

Voting for the Greens makes imperial war and domestic misery and failure that much more likely, for not only does it deny Democrats power, but it sows divisions within the factions of the Democratic party.

"Voting your conscience"--whatever the (in)validity of the reasonings that got one here--is totally obscene in the face of stupid war and carnage and misery.

Are you voting to make yourself feel better, or to make the nation and world a better place--or at least to preserve them from both regressing yet further?

The stakes are high. This is the choice. There is no other choice.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

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[Forkboy]

33. I see the truth hurts you.

[WillyBrandt]

34. Ask not for whom the fortune cookie cracks

for it cracks for you.

Any other deep responses?

[Forkboy]

36. you first

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

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[Terwilliger]

41. you can insult me all day

I'm not alone, and I'm not impressed.

[JackSwift]

35. Ralph Nader started the war in Iraq

by choosing to elect Bush. Ralph has blood on his hands, and so does every damn Green who still supports him.

[Terwilliger]

39. blah blah blah, Jack

you've sounded the same tune yourself over and over

what is it you don't understand about what Al From said: The assertion that Nader's marginal vote hurt Gore is not borne out by polling data.

[Forkboy]

44. But the Dems who voted for the damn war are heroes,eh Jack?

fucking sad.Try your demogoguery on people who give a shit about phony ass platitudes.

[Old and In the Way]

48. With Al Gore President, do you think there would have ever been an IWR?

Be honest now.

I love it that the Nader folks, when trapped, resort to, "well this Democrat said Ralph didn't spoil the election." I'm hearing that from lot's of Bush apologists you are taking out of context sentences from Bill Clinton's speeches to justify the current mess in Iraq...very similar argument.

I really don't want to argue 2000 politics, who could possibly have believed that this country could get so FU'd in 3 years. Heck, I'll bet most Nader voters would happily change their vote if it were possible....that's hindsight.

But if Ralph chooses to run another campaign in 2004, he is doing it as part of the strategy to help Republicans maintain control. As such, he's free to be the purest sounding Democrat there is in an effort to drain the idealistic, but sadly, naive, far left Democrats who could spell the difference in this election.

But none of you guys are answering the question asked in the thread: Why isn't Ralph running as a Democrat in the primaries if he believes he is the best Democrat to represent America?

Would one of you people in the Nader fan club please give us insight?

[Forkboy]

49. No I dont

I just think the vitriol and hatred directed at Nader is far too disproportionate to the hatred that should be directed at the real culprits that put Bush in place,the Supreme Court.

Nader was one of many factors,including the purged voters, the intimidated voters,the Dems who voted Bush,the lack of a real recount and on and on.But it seems like people focus their hatred on Nader at the exclusion of the other,even more glaring reasons why Bush sits in the White House.It is misdirected rage,and it's childish,unproductive,pointless and undemocratic at it's heart.

It doesn't matter how many votes anyone got because THEY WERE NEVER COUNTED.The entire argument should be moot after this fact.The true blame lies at the feet of those who decided the votes don't matter,not those who choose to participate in democracy.I simply will not damn a person for doing what we're told from day one in school that anyone can do in this country.Democracy doesn't mean running only when it's safe for one party.

[Iverson]

50. outrageous, irresponsible, false

This apologia for electoral fraud and illegal war is really beyond the pale.

[messiah]

37. I have

written worse non-comprehensible capital letter diatribes, your not going to get kicked but anyway keep up the good fight:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:.

[Terwilliger]

43. hey now

don't get on my bad side...I thought my diatribe quite correct ;-)

[messiah]

45. Actually

I meant "my non-comprehensible diatribes" yours are pretty well structured:):).

[Ardee]

19. Thank you Han Christian Anderson

When you stop patting yourself on the back for your brilliantly falacious characterisation of those who have more moral courage, better vision and far more truth to their positions than you just demonstrated you can start to read and learn who the greens really are.......

[jiacinto]

30. Moral Courage, please

Maybe if they stopped acting like Marxist freaks they would receive more respect.

[KG]

46. greens as marxists?

greens are capitalists.

why do you insist on exposing how little you know about anything?

[WillyBrandt]

32. Thank you for your pretty words

Right now people are being shot in the face, old people are being denying decent retirements, the federal debt is set to explode, and the Right marches on.

And you pat yourself on the back, no doubt for possessing some superior wisdom that we Cynics on Earth cannot be privy to.

I apologize. I defer.

[Deja Q]

6. Because he wouldn't get any votes?

:shrug:

I wouldn't vote for him. I feel for the Green party, but I surely wouldn't vote for him. He's even more of a robot than Al Gore appeared to be during Election 2000...

As for Ralphie helpin' out Bushie*, that's all conjecture and bullshit until I see some actual proof. :D Besides, Jebbie and Kathie did far more to help install *, or haven't people grasped that simple concept by now? Michael Moore did a nice job at doing so, but oh wait, he's supported the Greens so he must obviously want * to be in power too. :eyes:

[ShaneGR]

20. That's the weird part of the Nader argument

Nader says the Democratic Party doesn't support people like him who are supposedly super-left and Democratic voters are disenfranchised because of it. Well ok, participate in a primary and let those disenfranchised voters lead you to the promised land. Unfortunately, he won't do that because the purpose is more about ego-stroking than actual idealism. Case in point, where was NAder during the Florida election fiasco? No where near Florida, I'll tell you that much.

He cares about this much, " ", for voters or for peoples rights.

[Terwilliger]

40. and just what has the Democratic party done for voter rights since 2000?

OH YEAH!!! "Get over it." I forgot.

[pansypoo53219]

17. because he thinks he can start a green movement

by destorying the dems and after the repuglicans destroy america, we will beg the greens to take over.
he is seriously deluded. america ain't that smart or that stupid.

[Terwilliger]

21. what a wonderful sentiment! America not that smart nor that stupid

but, apparently, you are!

[FDRrocks]

38. What is the reality?

I mean, seriously. Kucinich is marginalized in the Democratic party and he is a liberal.

Why be a marginal person in the Democratic party when he can he can be Independant and run as the Green (Liberal) party contender. An international party with strongholds in Europe.

You guys scoff at Kucinich but fret over Ralph... what does that say?

[ulysses]

51. heh - good point

You guys scoff at Kucinich but fret over Ralph... what does that say?

It says that progressives are safe to play with as long as they can be neutered after the primaries.

[newyawker99]

52. I am locking this thread.

From the GD posting rules:

2. The subject line of a discussion thread and the entire text of the message which starts the thread may not include profanity, excessive capitalization, or excessive punctuation. Inflammatory rhetoric should also be avoided.

This is inflammatory.


NYer99
DU Moderator