Rep. Ron Paul warns "the DRAFT will likely be reinstated"

[Dems Will Win]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul144.html

To get more troops, the draft will likely be reinstated. The implicit prohibition of “involuntary servitude” under the 13th Amendment to the Constitution has already been ignored many times so few will challenge the constitutionality of the coming draft.

Unpopular wars invite conscription. Volunteers disappear, as well they should. A truly defensive just war prompts popular support. A conscripted, unhappy soldier is better off on the long run than the slaves of old since the “enslavement” is only temporary. But in the short run the draft may well turn out to be more deadly and degrading, as one is forced to commit life and limb to a less than worthy cause – like teaching democracy to unwilling and angry Arabs. Slaves were safer in that their owners had an economic interest in protecting their lives. Endangering the lives of our soldiers is acceptable policy, and that’s why they are needed. Too often, though, our men and women who are exposed to the hostilities of war and welcomed initially are easily forgotten after the fighting ends. Soon afterward, the injured and the sick are ignored and forgotten.

It is said we go about the world waging war to promote peace, and yet the price paid is rarely weighed against the failed efforts to make the world a better place. Justifying conscription to promote the cause of liberty is one of the most bizarre notions ever conceived by man! Forced servitude, with the risk of death and serious injury as a price to live free, makes no sense. What right does anyone have to sacrifice the lives of others for some cause of questionable value? Even if well motivated it can’t justify using force on uninterested persons.

<snip>

Go Ron Paul, so right he's left!

[Randi_Listener]

1. They can send me a draft card....

...and I'll kindly tell them to fuck themselves sideways.

[LiberalVoice]

2. I'll see you guys in sunny mexico.

[SteveG]

50. Mexico extradites for draft dodging

During Vietnam the only two real safe havens were Canada and Sweden.

[Homer12]

3. GW and the Republicans NEED YOU for their Imperial Wars

Who would have ever guessed that their forgein policy would lead to perpetual warfare with an Imperial mission?

[oasis]

51. Wolfowitz, Cheney, Perle, Bolton, and Bill Kristol had an idea a few years

back. www.newamericancentury.org

[Dems Will Win]

65. kick

[arcane1]

4. imagine a world...

where the Ron Pauls are on the right, and the Dennis Kuciniches are on the left

:-)

[Liberal Classic]

20. We can dream

:)

[PaDUer]

5. check this site out..

For more information go to: http://draftronpaul4prez.blogspot.com/
Subscribe to our group--this is an email addy:
[e-mail].

[bryant69]

6. The funny thing

is that this will give the country to the Democrats. I mean how do they think this is going to turn out?

But the truth is they know that, and so won't do it. Instead we will pull out of Iraq with a puppet government of some kind in place to protect US oil investment.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[RedSox02]

14. Some Dems might side with the draft though

I can just picture it now. Guys like Biden, Gephart and Lieberman up there saying "well it looks like the draft is necessary". Then you will suddenly see plenty of rich boys and Congressmen's sons in the National Guard again.

[Dems Will Win]

17. Yes but who do you want for President ?

Bush or someone like Dean, who WOULD get the foreign troops in to help and turn it over to NATO and the UN? No draft then.

Dean GOOD Bush BAD

[izzie]

18. The thing I see good about draft is it gets every one in on it.

People all look at the reason we are going to war and do not want to go.We have less wars than more. If every one on your street has someone who may die in a war you do not vote for the war. Or that is my thinking. No one out because they are unfit, put them in jobs they can do, no college to get you out or rich to get you out.If every one had to send their kids wars would get harder to drum up.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Please read my post #26 and then read the information in this post....

...this paragraph is from H.R.163:

"To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes."

Key Phrase: "...or a period of civilian service...".

That is going to be the "out" used to allow what amounts to deferments to the kids of the wealthy. They will be given jobs that will match their particular skill-sets (wealthy, educated, and connected).

Guess what? The exact same wording is included in S.89:

"To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes."

[Bandit]

27. National Guard is no longer an out

They expect to have forty percent of our troops in Iraq to be National Guard and Reserves. The Guard is no longer a safe hideout from war.

[Ilsa]

31. There's another blog for him:

www.paul2004.com

Oops. This should have been a reply to #5 about the "draft Ron Paul" movement.

CNN ran a report last week commenting on how opposition tot he incumbent causes them to move from their position of comfort further right and thus lose the election. If only Rep Paul would run as a Republican!

[evil_orange_cat]

7. ooooh CA NA DA!

my new home and native land! (if this happens)

no fucking way will I die for Bush or his stupid neo-con imperialism

[SemperEadem]

12. you'd better get over the boarder now while you can

Canada is not going to be accepting us coming over there dodging the draft like we did in the 60's. Best you leave now while you've got time.

[JoePizz]

8. A soldier is required to take an oath

to protect the US against all threats, foriegn and domestic. They are also now required to swear they will follow the orders of their command in cheif.

To me, it seems the two parts of the oath are mutually exclusive- How can a soldier protect the country from the domestic threat of a command-in-cheif who shreds the constitution?

If they start talking draft, why not make sure Bush's two daughters end up on the front lines? Let's see how anxious he would be then to carelessly expend the lives of our troops.

[Kanary]

45. Srubbies daughters

" If they start talking draft, why not make sure Bush's two daughters end up on the front lines? Let's see
how anxious he would be then to carelessly expend the lives of our troops."

The whole family is so psychopathic, I doubt they would even care.

It's not like you notice the daughters around a lot, do you?

Charming bunch.

Kanary

[jokerman93]

9. I keep remembering the classified Martial Law language

that was slipped into the $87bn congressional shakedown. No one could read it or debate it. But it seems to me, if the neocons are as calculating and monomaniacal as they've proven themselves to be so far, then we do have a "martial law condition" calculated into the future business plan for Amurka.

I wonder if draft resistance will get a little of the old "iron hammer" as well?

I'm not optimistic these days, but will continue to dissent.

[legin]

10. A congressman talking about the draft

interesting development.

I think that is a sign that the draft is getting closer.

[Dems Will Win]

13. Paul said PLANS ARE BEING MADE!

Notice that the Congressman said:

"plans are being made to drastically expand the human cost by forcing conscription on the young men (and maybe women)"

This is what he was talking about:

http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html

This has just been allocated, $28 million to reduce DRAFT ACTIVATION time from 8 months to 75 days! (March 31, 2005, the SSS has to rep[ort to the President that they are ready to go)

[TexasPatriot]

15. please do not take Rep Paul seriously

while i dont doubt plans are being made, i do doubt Mr Paul knows anything about it. He lives out beyond the fringe.

oh, btw, he's my congressman.

*sigh*

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. You must have missed the repeated links on S.89 and H.R.163,...

...the Senate and House versions, respectively, of the universal military draft now residing in committee.

You probably also missed the threads about the Selective Service System being allocated $28 million to get their system ready to run by mid-2005.

In that case, please allow me to help you understand what it is that you have obviously missed:

H.R.163:
<http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.21&filename=h163ih.txt&directory=/diskb/wais/data/108_cong_bills>

"H. R. 163

To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military
service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 7, 2003

Mr. Rangel (for himself, Mr. McDermott, Mr. Conyers, Mr. Lewis of
Georgia, Mr. Stark, and Mr. Abercrombie) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services"

S.89
<http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/useftp.cgi?IPaddress=162.140.64.21&filename=s89is.txt&directory=/diskb/wais/data/108_cong_bills>

"S. 89

To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military
service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.

IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

January 7, 2003

Mr. Hollings introduced the following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on Armed Services"

SELECTIVE SERVICE SYSTEM
ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN
FISCAL YEAR 2004
<http://www.sss.gov/perfplan_fy2004.html>

"ANNUAL PERFORMANCE REPORT

An annual report providing the results of the implementation of these performance measures will be submitted by March 31, 2005. This report will address attained versus planned levels of performance, explain unattained target levels, and identify where and how strategies, performance goals, and performance indicators should be changed to ensure that the SSS reaches its strategic and annual goals and objectives."

Now read each of the four Strategic Goals outlined in the Plan, and note that the total projected allocation for FY 2004 is $28 million.

Congressman Paul may be "on the fringes", but I doubt seriously that anybody in Congress would be in the dark about this legislation. I'm actually surprised that anyone on DU still considers this to be a fantasy. IMHO, anyone that refuses to take this seriously at this point is either a fool or deranged.

[TexasPatriot]

30. heh

oh no, i've been reading and paying attention... and I have no doubt that selective service is getting geared up - and yes, it does scare me - and i'm sure to point out those 'skills based' points to all my middle aged republican computer friends.

The point I was making was that yes, Rep. Paul is likely somewhat clueless with regards to any real specifics on this issue. He may have something - but I seriously doubt he has anything more substantive and realistic than the public record.

In the past, Ron Paul has gone off into tirades explaining how he believes a communist conspiracy is in charge of the UN, and the World Bank, and the IMF... he generally submits legislation to shut them down every year.

Let's take a look at a couple of his sponsored bills just this session:
H.J.RES.15 - A Constitutional Amendment Abolishing Federal Income Tax
H.R.938 - Human Cloning Prevention Act of 2003
H.R.1146 - American Sovereignty Restoration Act of 2003 - terminating US participation in the UN.
H.R.2778 - Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act - yes, abolishing the federal reserve system.

Honestly, this has been a pretty quiet session for Rep. Paul. If you go back a couple years you'll see when he was really cutting loose. Delay hates him, because he votes against leadership all the time. Delay even went so far as to have his district adjusted so he'd have to face a lot of north-houston pubs, hoping he'd get smacked by a tow-the-line type in the primary - it was one of the points made in the gleeful emails that got outed after the new maps were voted in.

I wish Rep. Paul would go on the news more often - and represent the republicans at every opportunity - even though it embarrasses the hell out of me every time he speaks. He's just that scary.

[Ilsa]

32. TX patriot, he's mine also. WHere are you?

[TexasPatriot]

33. Bastrop

Named for the famed Baron de Bastrop... well, at least it's pretty.

[Ilsa]

34. Very true about Bastrop.

Lovely country. Sometimes I forget that Paul's territory goes that far north and west of the coastal plains. I'm in Victoria. When I checked out your blog, I thought you might be our newspaper editor.

[izzie]

19. Called up 500 in NH so the picking are gettin slim

The army does not have enought men and all these guards are doing the work of the regular army.500 in a small state like NH will hurt that state I bet.

[Fleshdancer]

11. People are willing to fight for noble causes

The state of our military right now should be yet another big screaming red flag to this administration that what they are doing is wrong. Is it really going to take another 9/11 for these people to wake up and realize we aren't safer from terrorism?

[roguevalley]

35. they are going to have every doctor and nurse under forty sign in

my niece, three nephews, all gone. To Canada.

[Dems Will Win]

36. actually, it's under 45--and one article said they could DRAFT up to

80,000. Another said several thousand a year out of 3.4 million. But you're correct, they will all have to register if the DRAFT is activated. (at the Post Office)

[Timefortruth]

42. That will get the Republican's attention at any rate! nt

[MattNC]

37. he says

plans are being made then mentions no specifics

if the two resolutions are the plans, that's awfully light.

[tom_paine]

16. "Ron Paul...so right he's left!"

An apt description for the handful of True Conservatives remaining in the modern Bushevik Party.

He's also right about the draft. Part of me can't wait to the the Sheep's Faces of the Imperial Subjects of Amerika when it begins to dawn on them just what they have endorsed...

[ldoolin]

21. Draft will be reinstated if Shrub wins, but not before

It won't happen before the election, Shrubbie doesn't want to upset the electorate any more than we already are.

But if he gets a second term, watch out. He could very well reinstate the draft right around the end of November.

Does anyone have info on the availability and price of expat housing in Costa Rica right now?

[proud patriot]

23. Window sign on my ...bush 04 = the draft

:grr:

[oasis]

24. The UN is wise to PNAC and they won't send troops to aid Pax Americana.

This will make a draft even more imminent.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

28. Unless we have another "terrorist" incident of major proportions...

...which causes the top status of the Terror Alert system to be automatically enacted which allows curfews and the detention of anyone on the streets without proper identification and a reason to be there.

The "terror event" itself would cause still more "emergency measures" to be unanimously approved by Congress such as martial law, and the suspension of the 2004 elections. Additional measures would also include the need to IMMEDIATELY enact the universal military draft to deal with the "emergency".

In the meantime, the 300 National Guard tank units that were called up for duty with Homeland Defense about a year ago would be deployed at key sites nationwide to "ensure good public safety".

The FBI would also be busy rounding up anyone on their list of potential subversives. This is a list I believe the FBI has been busy compiling since the Coup of 2000.

Sound implausible? Stand by.

[WillyT]

22. Kick !!!

:kick:

[MoonRiver]

25. The next pre-emptive invasion on a sovereign country will result

in an international coalition being mobilized against US. No nation, no matter how poor, will dare support US, and the economic repercussions will come close to destroying our nation. If, after this, the neocons insist on their mission impossible, I believe something much much worse will happen to US. I am very, very afraid of the madmen at our helm.

:scared:

[robcon]

38. Zero chance of a draft.

There is no possibility of a draft. The measure doesn't have the votes, and never will.

[Dems Will Win]

39. Zell Miller would vote for it I bet. Says we may need a DRAFT

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/11/3/164417.shtml

<snip>

Monday, Nov. 3, 2003 4:21 p.m. EDT
Zell Miller: Draft May Be Necessary to Win War on Terror

The U.S. may need to reinstate a military draft in order to win the war on terrorism, retiring Sen. Zell Miller said on Monday.

"While I don't think we're close to that yet, that may be on down the line," the Georgia Democrat told nationally syndicated radio host Sean Hannity.

"We must stay the course," explained Miller. "We cannot cut and run because if we do not fight this war in Iraq we're going to have to fight in on the streets of America. And we cannot allow that to happen."

"Perhaps may be something we have to consider on down the line," the former Marine added. "It will be tough. A lot of people will not like it. But it may very well be something that we have to look at very seriously."

<snip>

[oasis]

41. PNAC requires armies of occupation. Where will those troops come from?

www.newamericancentury.org

[Timefortruth]

43. There isn't really an alternative.

There will be the votes if there are exculsions for the fortunate sons. The prodraft vote will be patriotic, antidraft extremeist.

Truth be told, even if a Democrat wins there isn't much of a choice.

[Dems Will Win]

47. A Democrat President would NOT have to draft

They would be able to easily Internationalize with NATO and UN backing and THEN THERE WILL NEVER BE A DRAFT. YOU ONLY NEED A DRAFT TO MAINTAIN SOLE CONTROL OVER IRAQ. BUSH CAN'T DO THIS BECAUSE THEY KNOW ABOUT PNAC AND WOULD NEVER GIVE A PNAC PREZ ANY TROOPS.

YOU DON'T NEED A DRAFT TO CATCH AL-QUEDA (BUT YOU DO NEED ONE TO TAKE OVER THE OIL IN THE MIDEAST AND ASIA).

Sorry for raising my voice. But when Dean CRUSHES Bush because everyone will soon know that there really is going to be a DRAFT (if I have anything to say about it) and that a President Dean and a Vice President Clark will never start a DRAFT after running against it, then you can sleep at night knowing the USA will reamin Conscription-Free...

[legin]

40. So what garb are they going to dress up the draft in

I mean they may be idiots but they are not completely stupid.

Just baldly saying "well, we are re-introducing the draft", is not probably the language they will use. You only have to look at what good old fashion prisons are called nowadays to realise that the 'euphamisation' of things has taken hold.

My guess would be that the u.s. doesn't need well-trained front-line conflict troops who can be used to fight wars, it's probably got enough. What the u.s does need is 'occupying troops' so that the frontline troops can go off and do what they do best.

So the window-dressing will be something along the lines of:

"The u.s. is commited to speading peace around the world. To show our commitment to peace and to show our leadership to the world in this noble endeavour, we are calling on our youth to be ambassadors of peace around the globe by becoming members of the new 'peacekeeping brigades'. Never in history has a generation been so lucky as to have such a noble and morally uplifting challenge for it to take up and to succeed at." etc,etc.

[Timefortruth]

44. Do you work for Rove?

Man, I'm hitting the alert, now!

[knight_of_the_star]

46. Let's spread this around!

I told my dad and his girlfriend about this and they were rather shocked, they like Bush. They were both shocked that it would be needed to be re-instated. I didn't go any further, I did all I had to.

[dusty64]

48. Kick.

:kick:

[jfxgillis]

49. Why the FUCK does Ron Paul care?

He sold his fucking soul to the fucking Republicans for his measly little fucking tax cut. So now he wants his soul back?

FUCK HIM.

If Ron Paul wants to stop the draft, he can vote for Nancy Pelosi for Speaker, otherwise, he should sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up. He can endorse the Democrat nominee for President.

If you haven't figured it out yet, I've gone over my limit for "principled" Republicans. Fuck 'em. We live in a two-party system. If your conscience demands that you resist the government, that's good, even if your conscience demands that you support the government, at least it's your conscience. But if you ENABLE the government both structurally and more often than not in legislative behavior, then I don't wanna hear this "principled" dissent anymore.

[oasis]

52. kick

[Navy Deep Sea LT]

53. DEMOCRATS are the ones who want the draft!!!!

I just don't get it....All of the sponsors of the draft bills are democrats, the very people who should be vehemently opposed to conscription! Usually I hear about the merits of mandatory service from the right. I understand its a ploy to make war un-stomachable, but give "the-man" an inch, he'll take a mile. I don't trust the politicians with a draft. I feel betrayed.

I'm actually happy with the SecDef's statements on the draft (they esentially amounted to "hell no!") Hopefully he'll keep that attitude.

And for anyone that thinks a draft would be a good thing, come to work with me on my submarine and I'll show you the guys that work for me. Then imagine them being there involuntarily.

[Dr Fate]

54. People who wish for war should "want to be there"...

Bush and the media told us that 75% or more of the people suppported this war. Iread that 88% of draft age Americans supported it.

With all these draft-age republicans out there "supporting" war, I think they should let the Army pick & choose any qualified candidates they may need for the effort.- I'm sure they do want to be there, or they would have never supported you being there- that would be hypocritical.

It's not a "ploy"- its an understanding that when "the people" support a war, it is with the understanding that we all share in the sacrifice...

If there is a problem w/ people "not wanting to be there"- then perhaps there is not actual support/willingness to sacrifice for the war....

[Navy Deep Sea LT]

55. Please stick with reality

That's a noble concept, but would work only in a "utopia", where everyone's will is bent to the same direction and goals. Being that we are individuals, I only want volunteers at my back during a fight...they fight harder and are better trained.

The days of attrition warfare, where you can throw bodies at a fight, are over. See Vietnam...no amount of troops can win a war of flawed strategy and poor moral. If you can't win a war with your current strength, prepare for a thrashing. Colin Powell wrote that he slept in a different part of his tent every night, because he was afraid of getting fragged by his own troops.

[oasis]

56. PNAC will require armies of occupation. Where will they come from?

www.newamericancentury.org

[Navy Deep Sea LT]

57. PNAC?

Sorry...doesn't pass the "reality" check. The "PNAC" can't be successful with a drafted military, because it would lose its political solvency, and it can't be successful on a world-wide scale with a volunteer military due to insufficient force. Anyone with poly sci or military ed. will see this (i.e any politician at a federal level) and not dare to bring it up in an educated democratic society. It could sell under a dictatorship or communist state, which is why we need the 2nd Amendment.

[oasis]

58. I guess the French, German , Russians and Chinese didn't take the

poli sci classes you mentioned, because they didn't help us on the Iraq invasion mainly because of Pax Americana aka PNAC.

A great military mind, Gen. Wesley Clark touched on the ambitions of the neocons in a recent interview. He's a West Pointer, top of his class.

[Navy Deep Sea LT]

59. What do they have to do with PNAC?

They have their own interests and military commitments...why would they care about our attempts to shape the world.

[oasis]

60. That's just it. Those countries are wise to the aims of Perle, Wolfowitz,

Cheney etc. They all want a seat at the table, not crumbs from the table. That's what the UN debacle was all about.

This business that the right wing press droned on about the French and Germans being in league with Saddam was just a cover to explain away the fact that our allies would not be involved. Russia and the US were also helpmates of Saddams brutal regime.

[Navy Deep Sea LT]

61. Yeah, but that has nothing to do with the draft....

That doesn't mean that the strategists in the Bush Admin would be stupid enough to start a draft for this "PNAC" plan. While it may be a concept in some peoples' heads and discussions, and Iraq is a small piece to a much larger scenario, they all know it would be a miserable failure if attempted on a large scale (BTW, Iraq is not large scale, even though its already stretching ground units thin) with a drafted, poorly equipped and trained military.

The thing so many people on any side of the political spectrum fail to realize is that politicians, regardless of their party, WANT TO STAY IN POWER. PNAC is political suicide if carried to its full extent, so logically it will not be implemented. And if any politician tries to outlast politcal suicide through incidious means, well that's why we have the 2nd amendment (to enforce the rest of the ammendments)

[oasis]

62. Bush's handlers aren't going to bring it up until after the election.

Remember the justification for the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, suspension of civil rightrs etc. "9/11 changed everthing" was the Bush adminsitration's mantra. If Bush gets back in in 2004 the 2nd amendment and the rest of the U.S, constitution will be going by the wayside.

Former Gen. Tommy Franks recently stated that marshall law would be implemented in case of a large scale terrorist attack.

Who's to say how great the danger would have to be?

[Navy Deep Sea LT]

63. Suicide for the party, not just Bush

The whole party would be committing suicide, along with any Democrats (like Rangel, that weirdo!) that went along. The military doesn't want a draft. The dems don't want a draft, the reps don't want a draft. It just isn't feasible for anyone's career.

As an avid gun man, the 2nd amendment isn't in danger from the Bush Administration. Hell they're still considereing whether to repeal the assualt rifle ban (I think).

And while GEN Franks (Ret.) opined that marshall law MAY be implemented in the case of a large scale terrorist attack, he was speaking from opinion, not knowledge. As the Commander of the Central Command Theater, he was not part of the planning done by the Dept of Homeland Security (talk about a boondoggle!) for response to terrorist attacks on american soil. He was at the pointy end of the spear.

[oasis]

64. It's not about party, it's about power. Iraq was in the works by the power

people before Bush ever came to office.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/publicationsreports/htm

Rebuilding America's Defenses: