Gene, Gene the Dancin' Machine

[Hogarth]

I have mixed feelings about the guy the cops beat to death. They're not very well-mixed (like oil and water) ... other means could have been used to subdue the man, though ... there's pepper spray and stun guns.

I used to use both when I worked at the sheriff's department. On the other hand, what's a cop to do when suddenly accosted by a large man on PCP? Take my word for it ... PCP renders a detainee invulerable to pain, and gives him or her more stength than the cop might have expected.

I don't think that guy needed to be killed, but I wasn't there, was I?

[LincolnMcGrath]

1. NON leathal weapons would end this

conversation. As a former MP, I concur with you on some points. Many calls should be handled by medical professionals. Two tazers didn`t keep Rod King on the ground. I took one tazer shot and I was instantly brought to my knees. We have all this tech. knowledge, and it is time to apply it to police uses.

[pruner]

2. can't "non-lethal" weapons be used lethally?

am I wrong to think that the bean bags can kill someone if fired from close enough range at the "right" target?

[LincolnMcGrath]

5. By NON lethal I don`t mean

never lethal. With technology and experience they wil improve. Guns were designed to do one thing, KILL. Hell, aspirin kills some now and then. By NON lethal I am looking for a devise to totally subdue a suspect/citizen. One death in a million is not acceptable to me, but I am quite sure it beats a Berreta any day.

[DrWeird]

3. None of us were there.

But we all saw the video.

What I saw was a group of police officers maliciously beat a subdued man.

[LincolnMcGrath]

6. I guess you missed the suspect

clothsline the officer.

[Hogarth]

8. That's what I saw, too ...

... and don't get me wrong. I meant to make the point that a stun gun will incapacitate anyone long enogh to put the cuffs on.

I never cared for night sticks--to me that seems barbaric. Wasn't there time to unholster a 50-000 watt zapper for the best of all involved? It causes no harm, but it allows cops enough time while the big guy is stunned to cuff him and avoid the kind of scene we look at over and over on cable news.

[chaska]

4. This is not a loaded question. Genuine ignorance here. <G>

Is it really necessary to use night sticks in situations like that? It seems like if you start beating on someone they will almost certainly have a fight or flight reacion. Wouldn't it be better to just bring the person down to the ground and simply use body weight, assuming enough bodies, to immobilize the suspect. Certainly seems like it would more quickly calm the suspect. Again, no antagonistic intent here.

[Hogarth]

9. I constantly plead total ignorance ...

... it's like wearing a fur coat. But trust me--when wrestling with a man (let alone a 350# man) on PCP, feeling no pain, body weight of several officers is just silly. It's just not enough, and people get hurt. Swift resolution is best (harmless zapping and cuffing).

I used to supervise twelve people in a Wisconsin county jail, and that policy would never have worked. Body weight? That means nothing when a person is on PCP, sincerely.

On the other hand, and most importantly, this man didn't have to be killed by the PD. The images are disturbing. I worked for the sheriff for 11 years and never picked up a "nightstick."

What I saw on cable news was disturbing, as I said, but who knows what really happened? The suspect's tackling of a police officer was likely a mistake on his part.

[pasadenaboy]

7. his lawyer said today

that he died from some type of heart and/or breathing thing having to do with his arms being behind his back and him being on his stomach and over 400 lbs. I don't think the beating or a gun did anything.

I didn't hear it all, so I might have misunderstood, but I think that's what i heard.