Selective Indignation: James Baker Vs. Ariel Sharon

[DrFunkenstein]

The "outrage" seems a little disingenuous from the Dean people trying to downplay Kerry's ass-kicking foreing policy speech by focusing on the mere mention of James Baker, a man responsible for starting the peace process, as an envoy for the Mid-east in the spirit of bipartisanship (gasp!).

Why? Oh, I don't know. Maybe because Howard Dean is so far up AIPAC's crack that is Sharon broke wind, Dean's face would be brown?

Shall we take a stroll down selective memory lane? Okay!

In November, Dean paid his first-ever visit to Israel on an excursion that was organized and paid for by AIPAC. He was apparently unperturbed at his sponsors’ close ties to a government that engages in a pattern of gross and systematic human rights violations and blatantly violates a series of UN Security Council resolutions and other international legal principles. During his visit, Dean did not meet with any Palestinian leaders or any Israeli moderates.

He also rejects calls by APN and other liberal Zionist groups that Israel’s requested $12 billion loan guarantee be linked to an Israeli freeze on constructing additional illegal settlements on confiscated Palestinian land, arguing that such aid should instead be unconditional. Pushing for such a dramatic and unconditional increase in financial support for the incumbent government just before Israelis went to the polls in January was widely seen as a not-too-subtle endorsement of Sharon’s re-election.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm

Dean traveled to Israel on a trip sponsored by the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). After meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Dean stated: “I do not think that as long as Yasser Arafat is president there will be peace." Before leaving, Sharon asked if Dean would support requests for new loan guarantees to Israel. Dean “promised him he would.”

http://www.aaiusa.org/countdown/c120602.htm

Dean believes the Bush administration should be giving Israel $4 billion in military aid to fight terrorism, not the $1 billion it proposed last month.

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk030418/us02.shtml

Last December, Dean told the Jerusalem Post that he unequivocally supported $8 Billion in US loan guarantees for Israel. "I believe that by providing Israel with the loan guarantees...the US will be advancing its own interest," he said. His unconditional support for the loan package, in addition to $4 Billion in outright grants, went further than even some of the most pro-Israel elements in the Bush administration, like Paul Wolfowitz, who wanted to at least include some vague restrictions like pushing Israel to curtail new settlements and accept a timetable to establish a Palestinian state.

In a major foreign policy speech earlier this year, Dean, while calling for an end to Palestinian violence, did not call for an end to Israeli violence, let alone an end to the illegal Israeli occupation.

And when asked whether his views are closer to the dovish Americans for Peace Now (APN) or the right wing, Sharon-supporting American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), he stated unequivocally in an interview with the Jewish weekly The Forward, "My view is closer to AIPAC's view."

http://www.muslimwakeup.com/mainarchive/000119.html

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[CWebster]

1. nice try, Funkenstein

Here is what I remember, Kerry along with Lieberman attacked Dean for advocating a more "even-handed" approach to the I\P conflict....right there on national TV, in front of the world and there ain't no getting around it.

[blm]

4. no...just for not understanding what he was saying.

If Dean understood what he was saying then why did he backtrack later and act like he made a mistake in front of Jewish leaders?


Before his first major meeting with American Jewish communal leaders, presidential hopeful Howard Dean ducked into a Manhattan sukkah to shake hands with local children and admire the homemade rings of construction paper they had draped across the outdoor hut.

Later Friday afternoon, however, at a meeting at the Lincoln Square Synagogue, it took more than a photo-op and some handshaking to placate 26 representatives of Jewish groups.
A former Vermont governor, Dean had vexed many members of the Jewish community last month when he recommended that the United States take a more “evenhanded” approach to brokering Israeli-Palestinian peace — a phrase generally taken to mean that the United States should not take Israel’s side.

Dean backers say the comment was distorted by his opponents.
Asked about his remarks during the closed-door meeting, Dean “covered his face with his two hands and shook his face as if to say ‘Oy, what a mistake that was,’ ” said David Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee.

According to Harris, Dean said, “Israel is not just an ally, but a beacon of hope for people who were abandoned 2,000 years ago and who are afraid of being abandoned again. I will not abandon Israel, ever.”

>>>>>>>
http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=13346&intcategoryid=3

[DrFunkenstein]

5. Dean Wouldn't Make For Much of A Chief Diplomat

Let alone Commander-in-Chief. Not only is largely unaware of the subtle chess of international geopolitics, he is known for shooting first and asking questions later. That'll come in real handy if we get into another Cuban Missle Crisis-type situation.

But, I must admit, his handling of the 600,000 odd folk of Vermont makes him well qualified for being Chief Executive of the world's largest economy and only superpower.

[sistersofmercy]

8. Thanks for the info blm, it was one of the issues I thought I agreed with

Dean on but clearly not. I'm so utterly tired of the I/P conflict it has been allowed to go on too long. AI reports on Israel are extremely revealing. I think it's the 2001 or 2002 that I can never get to come up for some reason. The AI reports in Iraq are indeed interseting as well.
BTW what does blm mean? Just curious.

[blm]

13. At bartcop

and at MWO my full handle was bushlvsmoonies. I came on to DU to spread the info about Moon and his links to Bush and the GOP powerstructure, especially his alliance with the fundamentalists like Tim LaHaye.

[sistersofmercy]

15. Works for me!

Boy I'll tell you I still just shake my head at some things, it's unbelievable how corrupt these weasels are. It's like were back in 88 or 89 or 90 or 91 with the same issues enhanced by steriods.

[Loonman]

2. Both war criminals, right?

Both slimy, lying, opportunists.

[DrFunkenstein]

3. Awkward Silence?

n/t

[Eloriel]

10. No, not awkward at all

I think your criticism is greatly overblown. HOWEVER, if all this bothers you enough, don't vote for him (which you wouldn't have anyway - so case closed).

One of the things wrong with your critique is that you're bringing up things which have been bypassed by this time -- he's grown in his position on I/P. He may not be where you'd like him to be (tho you actually don't KNOW at this point, based on the agglomeration of info you've posted, some of which as I said is old and outdated), and some of his positions may not be where I'd like them to be. If you have a perfect candidate, or someone better on your litmust test issue, which I presume this is for you, then that's the person you should vote for.

See how it works?

:evilgrin:

Eloriel

[sistersofmercy]

6. Well crap Dr Funkenstein you just took from me one of the things I liked

about Dean. I too remember the debate comment about evenhandedness in dealing with I/P which by the I think is long overdue!

[Forkboy]

7. What are you trying to say with the sig pic Funk?

[thebigidea]

11. Ariel Sharon will change the flag to depict the STAR OF HOWARD DEAN!

be careful, otherwise Yahweh will send along a buncha bears to maul you for mockery.

Today at the grocery checkoutline, I laughed hysterically upon spying the headline in some soap opera rag: "Sharon's Sensational Secret!" - due to a morning spent groaning over I/P, I thought for a good 3 seconds or so that it was referring to Ariel Sharon's sexy secrets. From now on, I skip the I/P forum before breakfast.

[sistersofmercy]

14. Hey Big Idea where have you been?

Missed you lately! I was out of town for a bit and decided to skip taking the laptop, figured tourist sites by day and vodka and clubbing by night was the route for me.

[thebigidea]

16. doing the same, bopping about mit der laptop

filming new skits and finishing up der dvd, mostly... new video up, the thread concerning it sinks softly into oblivion as I type.

Vodka-based tourism sounds ideal - and strangely familiar.

Insert Ariel Sharon content here.

"He's a man of peace!"

[fujiyama]

9. Sorry Funk...

You're not going get many James Baker supporters. As far as I'm concerned he's complete scum and being one that believed Kerry would have made a great president, I'm really dissapointed in his consideration of Baker as an envoy for anything.

As for bipartisanship, fuck it. I have no interest in playing with crooks.

Fuck Baker, Kissinger, Scowcroft, and the other Bush I cronies. They may not be exactly "neocons" but they're still as dangerous. Dean should have known better than calling Bush Sr. "excellent on FP".

[pruner]

12. James "fuck the Jews, they don't vote for us anyways" Baker

:nuke: