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Dean picks up a HUGE endorsement.....Me. (ha-ha)

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:35 PM
Original message
Dean picks up a HUGE endorsement.....Me. (ha-ha)
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 01:39 PM by Armstead
Okay, not huge. Not even big. In fact, tinier than tiny in the scheme of things. But, hey if you can't exercise your ego and inflate your sense of self-importance on a message board...

Anyway, just thought I go on the DU record as deciding to place myself firmly in the Dean column.

I was lukewarm about him at first, and I've been vacillating in my own mind for a variety of reasons. Before I say why Dean, here's a few words about the others. I will support whichever gets the nomination. I think they all have certain strenghts, and I'm not gonna bash any of them (except Joe). And any of them would be a real asset as VP or member of the cabinet.

I'm in the left wing of things. and I agree with Kucinich philisophically, and I think he's a good politician on certain levels. But at this point, his campaign is more about sending a message to the Democrats. And he hasn't really been a great messenger in forums like the debates, I hate to say. I also like the politics of Braun and Sharpton, but they are not serious contenders for a prsidential run.

Kerry is my senator and I admire him in many ways. Initially I thought he'd be a great candidate, but I think he's blown in in this campaign. And his style is to remote and dry....He's gotten a little better lately, but it seems like too little too late to me.

Gephardt is a good man too. He'd make a really good president, and I still think we could do a lot worse than him as the nominee. But he doesn't have the fire and seems like a bit worn at the sleeves at this point to excite people.

Edwards is also a good man, but has the opposite problem than Gephardt. He doesn't seem experienced enough in the ways of politics. And, in superficial terms, he's too fresh and good looking for a presidential candidate. I wish he'd focused on his senate seat and perhaps angle for a later run (or the vp slot.)

Clark...I like him and some of his politics. And he certainly has foreign policy creds. But I think he's too tied to the military industrial complex. I also don't think he's being taken seriously enough to capitalize on his ex-general status eitehr. And his persona seems too remote for the image side of presidential politics.

Holy Joe. Fergedit. No more needs to be said.

As for Dean, the more I see of him, the more impressed with him. I hate to say it, but a lot of it is that mysterious "it factor." he just comes across as strong and tough and passionate. he's also decent but mean enough to hold his own.

He also is bringing a new form of politics, both in his personal style and straightforward language and the nature of his campaign. I agree with him that his campaign IS campaign finance reform. Would be nice of he'd stuck to public money limits, but ya gotta fight fire with fire when going up against the Bush Machine.

He's a moderate, but I like the fact that he listens to the left. He "gets it" as far as our concerns, and he is incorporating that in his campaign message. I get a little nervous that he'll slide into the centrist mold eventually. But I think the nature of his campaign means that he'll be accountale to us, rather than to the big corporate backers.

I also think that is an asset. I'm a neighbor of Vermont, and I am somewhat familiar with his governming style there. He's a pragmatist in a good sense. And I think when people realize that, he'll have a lot of appeal to those "swing voters."

Anyway, that's why I've decided to give my totally irrelevant support to Dean.









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theivoryqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. only as humble as talent requires!!!
I read that somewhere yesterday...
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. Congrats
:toast:
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CMT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. that is huge
You'll be a great addition to the DU Dean Team.
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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, don't knock yourself!
You've been around here a long time and a lot of people respect your opinion. I agree with what you said about the "It" factor...I think a lot of people are working themselves into apoplexy because they are trying to influence people by talking about policy or issues and they forget that there is a certain amount of gut instinct involved in this process.
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caledesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
5. Welcome Armistead. Dean is a winner. nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Me too...but..
unlike you, I cannot say that I will support "any candidate that gets the nomination". I will support anyone that gets the nomination that didn't vote for the invasion of Iraq.

I, like you, have been rather tepid in my support of Dean. But, I do find his style refreshingly hard nosed as opposed to the tiptoe politics of some of the others. My heart is with Sharpton, Braun and Kucinich, but Dean has been doggedly proving himself a candidate to be reckoned with.

And, I'll be happy to lay out a hundred bucks just to see him wipe the floor with the smirking, incoherant, boob now infesting the White House.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. I had a funny encounter with an old business associate...
...one whom I worked with thru the dot-com boom. After a few minutes, he proclaimed, "Wow, I don't think I've seen you this politically motivated before." (this guy was a big-time Clinton hater, and in all honesty, I myself wasn't a Clinton supporter) He knew I was supporting Dean (the buttons must have tipped him off), and had done some reading on him, and asked what prompted this from me...

This is a guy that was burned pretty badly when the bubble burst. He doesn't care for Ashcroft at all, hasn't seen the economy do him any favors. But after spending a few minutes chatting about Dean's statements on small businesses...we parted with, "I guess I can see why this guy has gotten you motivated, I'll have to keep him in mind as long as I'm not convicted of a felony and can still vote." Haha, it's a start...

He never would have been influenced by the high-profile endorsements, but coming from a guy who told him everything that was gonna happen in the industry, years in advance, he got the message...
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
7. Welcome to the Dean fold..
From another Dean supporter to a brand new one... :toast:

Hawkeye-X
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. As much as we like to cheer about the high profile endorsements...
...it's the endorsements of individual voters that matters as much and more in many cases. There are people that each of us come in contact with in our day to day that will never be reached by <insert congressional rep endorser> or <insert celebrity endorsement> or <insert union endorsement>... We need to reach those people to, and WE are the "go-to" guys and girls on that assignment...
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Khephra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. It's great to have you with us
Now get used to being called a cultist or groupie...or worse.

:evilgrin:
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. You are wrong
Your statement is huge!

I've been following your posts for two years now and have high respect for you.

Welcome to the Dean campaign!
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SeekerofTruth Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
12. I laughed, I cried,...I have a question?
I like Dean too, but you stated you hope he doesn't become to moderate? What do you mean by becoming too moderate? Are there particular areas you are concerned with? Many people said Clinton was too moderate, but I liked him.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. It's not too moderate I worry about
I see a difference between moderates and centrists. It has to do with economics and power.

In my opinion, a moderate is basically a liberal who shares the basic goals of more strident liberals and progressives. They believe corporate power has to be challenged, and that the economy should at least keep their power in balance with otehr goals. They simply sees things getting there more slowly and methodically, and are not as much firebrands.

That's okay with me, because we're going in the same direction..

I see a centrist as someone who has lost that sense, and repudiates the economic aspects of libralism. Instead centrists have a view that is a hybrid of the corporate GOP conservate agenda and some vague notion of Democrats as being more liberal on social issues. It is ultimataly a "kinder and gentler" version of the GOP's compassionate conservatism.


What I referred to in Dean is that he is a moderate, which is fine with me. (I'm basically pretty moderate too, in a lefty way.) But if he starts going for the corporate agenda too much, and forgets those who got him in the lead in the first place.







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SeekerofTruth Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. I agree,....thanks
I agree, thanks for the insight. I keep hearing he's fiscally conservative but I think a better phrase is fiscally responsible.

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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. My concern - albeit a small one
is the Centrists' who feel the need to purpousely distance themselves from "those liberals". There's nothing wrong with being in the center, but the DLC-type mistake of doing so at the expense of others in your party is something that Dean needs to watch out for.

I "get" Dean, and I see his policies as even-handed & consistent. But the press & many voters are still feeling the need to label him in the standard political spectrum. Even though he calls himself "center", and "more conservative than Bush when it comes to spending (paraphrase)," people are puzzled by some of his policies that seem not-so-DLC centrist. Some would even call them (shudder) progressive.

I don't think Dean is ashamed of anything he's said or done, but get him in the hands of a K-street handler who's obsessed with the swing vote, and we may see yet another politician who takes the left-wing voters for granted.

Dean is in a position now that's similar to Gore, Kerry & others who keep making that mistake - that's why there's potential for it. BUT i don't think it's Dean's style to trash liberals for the sake of trying to win over some folks who are probably voting for * anyways. He's smart enough to realize that it's not a winning strategy.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Just so you know
Dean's pretty adamant about not ever getting "handled." So, I don't think the K Streeters have a chance with him.

Eloriel
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NNadir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
42. An important endorsement.
And a welcome one.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is great!
This long-time reader/poster is delighted. :toast:

Julie
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Jack_Dawson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Oh dear
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displacedvermoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
15. Wow, Bill Greider, Molly Ivins and now Armstead have all been duped!
Well, I too am joining the club!

After months of reading constant attacks against a man I know is not the devil, I too am no longer of several minds. The person who called the Governor "a prick" this AM put me over the top, so to speak. If candidates inspire this kind of bile in their supporters for a candidate of the same party, then I question that candidate's worth. And yes, I know, "Dean started it!", as I've also been hearing for months. Bunch of friggin' babies.

So, into the breach with Bill, Molly, and Armstead I go. Bring 'em on, as someone once said!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Woo Hooo...!
Were on a roll.

Here's your Koolaid ;) :beer:
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Hep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Check your coat at the door, don't forget the Kool-Aid
What would you like to do first? Shoot some puppies or put razors in apples at the school cafeteria?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Velcome...
:evilgrin: You are now officially indoctrinated into the 'Nefarious Dean Supporter' club. :spank:

:toast:
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IrateCitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
22. I figured after William Greider's endorsement, you'd cave
The only question was how long it would take.

Personally, I'm not giving up on some of the IDEAS of Dennis Kucinich yet. But when it comes to the campaigns of the candidates more likely to receive the nomination, I'm clearly in the Dean camp. And for many of the reasons that William Greider outlined in his Nation column. He may be a centrist, but he's a FIGHTING centrist. And a savvy politician who is able to feel where the public is going to GO rather than simply focusing on the short term of where they are right NOW.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I'm not giving up on Kucinich's ideas yet either
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 03:06 PM by Armstead
I think DK represents the future of the party. The direction it has to go to restore its relevance and usefulness. And the direction I think it will go down the road.

But it's partly the superficial fact that DK has not been a great candidate on a personal level in this race. Partly the fact that maybe this isn't the right time for such sweeping change yet.

I do hope at some point DK and Dean sit down and have a long talk.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I'd like to see DK as whip...
...quite frankly. He showed his abilities in mustering support within a challenging congress for the opposition to the IWR...
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
34. Whip? No. Majority Leader? Yes.
Kucinich needs to offer voice to the Responsible Progressive Wing of the Democratic Party (how many wings does this bird have :) j/k) and needs a platform to do it. While I am definately to the right of DK, I don't want to live in a nation where DK and people who are like DK don't have a strong and powerful voice.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Ditto
I think he'd be great in thgat job...or even as Democratic Majority Leader in the House (he said speaking optimnistically).
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
23. I respect you and your opinion. It's not irrelevant to me.
but IMO Kerry has that mysterious "it factor" as you call it- I call it presidential.
I am willing to accept that a lot of people don't perceive Kerry in the same way, and for whatever reason are rejecting him. I am not however, willing to accept Dean. Edwards and Clark are next in line for me, should Kerry fail.
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damnraddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
24. Great! Welcome!
As I've said before, I hope the years of the Dean Administration will reshape America enough that it'll be ready for Kucinich.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. I think that's an important consideration
What Dean and his campaign (by which I mean including supporters) are doing is revolutionary: if it's allowed to succeed, it will put the power in the hands of The People once again. (This is, of course, one of the reasons he's not been popular with some of the Dem Establishment, to put it mildly.)

While Dennis's policies may be preferrable to Dean's from a liberal standpoint, the "movement" which is growing up around and through and because of Dean is, to my way of thinking, the essential first step (tho I don't think most people recognize it as such).

Once We the People have seized our power back, we can do anything.

Some DUer posted a personal interaction she had with Maynard Jackson once upon a time. She was trying to fight some awful industrial thing going on in her neighborhood and she appealed to Jackson for help. He helped, all right, when he told her, "If the people don't want it, it won't happen."

Think about it. All the REAL progress we've EVER made came as a result of We the People rolling up our sleeves and demanding what we wanted, not as top-down benedictions from on high.

We the People are going to have to re-learn what it takes to get things done: US!! That's happening as we speak, within the Dean campaign. And it will spread like wildfire, and once that happens we can get to work creating whatever we can imagine and agree to work on together.

It's so surprising to me that more DUers don't "get it" about Dean's campaign / movement, perhaps especially Kucinich supporters. DK's supporters see Dean as an enemy, but he's the best friend they ever had, other than DK himself. I even started a thread, months ago: It's Not About Policies Any More. It isn't. If we really want dramatic change, Kucinich can't make that happen (yet). But Dean can -- he already is doing it -- by revitalizing the democratic process, reinvigorating citizenship, revolutioninzing campaigning and esp. campaign finance, etc. Everybody else just has policies -- most of them perfectly acceptable, some better than others -- and resumes. Dean offers something REALLY different, and desperately needed.

Eloriel

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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #28
43. Good points, but I disagree
When has it not been about policy? Isn't that the whole point we HAVE a democracy: to vote for the candidate whose policies best represent our views? Sure, a candidate may claim to be about "change", but what if his/her policies are the same warmed-over DLC positions that did NOTHING for liberals and progressives: the heart of our party?

The things said about Dean ("he'll pave the way for a more progressive president") were also said of Bill Clinton in 1992. Many progressives (myself included) bought that line with the hope that he might throw us a bone on a couple of issues.

What did we get instead? "Welfare Reform". NAFTA. "Fast-Track" trade negotiation. More people in prison over a stupid and pointless "War on Drugs". The transfer of even more wealth to the upper class at the expense of the middle- and working-classes. More sanctions against Iraq that killed 500,000 innocent children. An Israel/Palestine settlement that still didn't address the rights of the Palestinians to have a SEPARATE, SOVEREIGN state of their own.

Clinton talked like a liberal, campaigned like a moderate, and governed like a conservative. His heir-apparent (Gore) was the same way. Most liberals and almost all progressives are sick of getting the wool pulled over our eyes by yet another "centrist" who talks like a liberal populist, but who'll govern more like Eisenhower than Kennedy.

If you're a centrist and agree with the positions of your candidate, congratulations, you've voting your conscience. But, if you're a liberal who's voting for a candidate who's views you only halfheartedly support, you may want to reassess your choice.

Currently, "Unnamed Democrat" is trouncing Shrub in the latest polls. Why not support an "Unnamed Democrat" who actually shares YOUR core values?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. Don;t get fooled again
You have a certain point about what happened with Clinton. And I do think of that occasionally about Dean.

But it brings to mind the old Who song "We won't get fooled again." We can at least make it a point this time not to get fooled again. If Dean goes all the way, and gets there with the support of the liberals and progressives, we should never let him forget it.

In my opnion one good thing about the recent conservative gains is that it shows the Democrats need liberals more then ever. The DLC types like to deny that, but the fact is they can no longer coast by assuming the conservative-leaning "swing voters" are the key to their success. The conservative swing voters will gravitate more to the GOP the strnger it gets.....To counter that, the Democrats need to get back to the liberal roots.

Also, we need them. Although I feel about Clinton the same way you do, I'd take anotehr eight years of that over eight years of the GOP anytime.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 03:29 PM
Response to Original message
27. welcome to the Dean campaign!
:hi:
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Dudley_DUright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
29. Wow, two big endorsements on the same day for Dean
Molly Ivins and now Armstead. Welcome to our two newest Deaniacs. :toast:
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denverbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. That's odd Armstead.
I woulda almost sworn that it was you who pointed me to his website nearly a year ago, and immediately made a early convert and donor out of me. I know you pointed Bernie Sanders out to me.

I'm with you on the other candidates as well.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #30
46. Twern't me
I probably did point out Bernie. But not Dean. That must have been another Armstead. :)

Although I did post a link to a Dean-bashing site a while ago. But I've mended my ways. I've drunk the Koolaid and seen de light.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
32. you're completely speaking my mind here.
Edited on Thu Dec-04-03 04:07 PM by ulysses
He's a moderate, but I like the fact that he listens to the left. He "gets it" as far as our concerns, and he is incorporating that in his campaign message.

That, and the fact that he's managed to piss off the DLC, which is a Very Good Thing. :D

Not irrelevant by any means, but highly regarded, Armstead. :thumbsup:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Sorry I had to abandon the Sloth and Indolence Party
:+
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. not like we were getting much done anyway.
;-)
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. But wasn't that the point?
If so you succeeded. A political party that actually kept its promise.
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ulysses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. and by dropping out
you fulfilled the mandate to the utmost! :D
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. We aim to please
I guess I suceceded at my one foray into electoral politics by not showing up. :boring:
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
38. i respect your opinion, Armstead
thus, this endorsement is not irrelevant.

i can appreciate your reasons, and i agree about Dean's campaign; he has made it about "us" and will stick to it if elected.





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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
40. Go for it!
May the best man win......Not the most money, but the best man!
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-04-03 05:27 PM
Response to Original message
44. btw, your support is never irrevelant
:-)
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