Wingnut statement...this just can't be true

[suegeo]

I was out for happy hour with some people last night. One wingnut Bush lover talked about Smirky's trip to Iraq (the fake-turkey photo-op trip) over thanksgiving.

The wingnut said that he was impressed by Smirky's trip because it was the first time ever that a president had ever visited a war zone.

Is that even true? Surely FDR visited London during the bombings of that city during WWII? (maybe not, i have not had the chance to look it up. which is why i'm asking.)

Even so, didn't the deserter-in-chief declare "mission accomplished" while displaying his presidential package on the Lincoln? The press release said "combat operations were over" or something, that later got changed to "major combat operations..." So the wingnut's claim falls apart because according to the junta, combat is over?

Plus, the idiot son of an asshole visited a secure location in Iraq, so it wasn't exactly a war zone, was it?

Is the wingnut's statement coming from the Pigman (the junkie), or just some local freak on hate radio...

I don't know why I am even posting this, as any attempt to figure out wingnut statements is a ridiculous exercise.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

1. Does Lincoln count? Living in a warzone, after all!

[chimpymustgo]

10. Lincoln, FDR, Johnson, Clinton. They all visited the troops during war.

Only the media did a great job of confusing the hapless, great unwashed. All day long, they talked of Bush's daring historic trip. How he was the FIRST PRESIDENT EVER TO VISIT THE TROOPS DURING A TIME OF WAR


in iraq.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

12. I know. Where do these people think Abe was? 5 miles from the lines

surrounded by troops for nearly four years!

[JHB]

20. I believe he also visited the frontlines...

...once or twice.

as for Smirky, the visit was for less than three hours, and they were prepared to abort it if there was the slightest hint it had leaked out. Thus, he was gone before any attempt to attack him could be organized, and every precaution to assure his safety was taken. Roosevelt was probably in greater danger from German subs when he met Churchill on a battleship, even though they weren't in a war zone.

The REAL truth is that if his entire Iraq policy had been planned with the same thoroughness and care as that trip, he would never have had to make it.

[RamboLiberal]

38. Lincoln made just over 40 trips to battlefields and units

Think how dangerous Lincoln's trips were over railroad and road when Confederate calvary was about.

FDR travelled overseas to meet Churchill and Stalin.

Truman, LBJ, and Nixon all traveled to war zone.

I hope you see that wingnut at happy hour again.

[theivoryqueen]

2. Teddy Roosevelt - maybe Abe Lincoln?

Actually I don't recall any other pres visiting an "active" warzone... but could be wrong.

[Yupster]

39. Teddy Roosevelt?

I can't think of which war? When did he visit a war front? I'm assuming the question meant as president.

[sangh0]

3. I'll let you in on a little secret...Shhhhh

ALWAYS MAKE THEM PROVE THEIR STATEMENTS. Always assume they are wrong, and make them prove that they are right. That's what they do.

If you won't believe it, try telling the wingnut that Bush* went AWOL. One will get you ten that the response is "Prove it"

[wryter2000]

21. Good idea, but

You can't expect anyone to prove a negative...that something didn't happen. It's impossible.

So, if they make a positive idiotic statement, such as Bill Clinton met with communists, you say...prove it! But if they say, Bill Clinton never went to Cleveland, the onus is on the person who asserts that Clinton did go to Cleveland to make the proof.

In this case, someone has posted a picture of Clinton in Bosnia below. That's all the proof we need.

[sangh0]

25. Good point, but

irrelevant. I still maintain we should make them work. It's up to them to point out the inability to prove a negative. And if they are smart enough to use that argument, the response "Oh, I see. Another conservative who makes claims with no evidence to support it. You must think you're Colin Powell and I'm the UN"

Never give them an inch!!!

[Patriot_Spear]

27. I agree with Sangh0...

...but I promise not to make a habit of it.

[eleny]

36. Well, it would still be fair to ask about their source

That in itself might be a show stopper. Especially if the source was Lambast, Shammity, O'Looney or the like.

[sangh0]

37. I like that!

Then you can respond "AHA! The liberal media strikes again!"

[Patriot_Spear]

23. Excellent Suggestion... here's another

My personal favorite retort is, 'Where'd you hear that- AM radio? Try college next time...'

[Maine-i-acs]

4. Johnson went to Nam I think.

A little before my time but I recall that was just one more new similarity between the two quagmires.

[Wetzelbill]

35. yeah, Johnson went at the height of the war, no less.

[frylock]

5. lbj and nixon both went to the nam.

[Davis_X_Machina]

Roosevelt went to Casablanca, Cairo, and Teheran...

...as well as traveled by sea to Newfoundland, during WWII, but never went to London.

[Yupster]

40. Eisenhower went to Korea, but

it may have been in his president-elect period.

[evil_orange_cat]

6. FDR held meetings on warships...

LBJ went to Vietnam...

And plus, the War is over, according to Bush "Mission Accomplished"... so he wasn't in a warzone! :p

[kanrok]

7. Clinton went to Kosovo

with Hillary and Chelsea, for crying out loud.

[Noordam]

8. most have

I believe that is President Clinton in Bosnia.

[grannylib]

9. Many have gone; LBJ went to Nam twice; Clinton went to eat with troops in

Kosovo; Nixon went to Nam; it's not a new thing.
That's why Chimpy HAD to go...he would have looked even worse for not going, especially after the little banner charade, when it came out that the carrier was just miles offshore and all...

[gasperc]

14. and had to bring his fake Turkey for the photo op

Which Turkey is fake? They both are!!!! ha-ha-ha

God forbid the trip was about meeting the troops, talking with them, shaking their hands

Nope, emphasis was put on bringing a fake Turkey for a good picture

[Renew Deal]

11. Not true

A DUer recenetly suggested to assume anything coming from a freeper is initialy false unless they have proof or you know it's true. This is another lie. Troops have been visited by the president in the field going back to I think the Civil War. I know for certain that there were presidential visits during Vietnam.

[sangh0]

13. LBJ visited VietNam

But I have to take issue with one thing you said.

unless they have proof or you know it's true

IMO, you should demand proof even if you know it's true. Make them work for it. They have no credibility. Don't give them an inch.

[SharonAnn]

17. Right on! Get them used to proving their statements. That's how

teachers teach us when we're in school and for those who didn't learn that in school, we'lljust have to teach them.

Statement like this? "Really? Can you prove that?"

[jobycom]

15. Washington led troops while president. Lincoln visited battlefields

As for more modern presidents, maybe not. Considering all of our wars have been overseas, and until the last few decades visiting a war zone would have been very time consuming and too dangerous, maybe not. No one visited Viet Nam or Korea. JFK visited Berlin, but that's not exactly a war zone. Then again, our invasion and occupation of Iraq isn't what anyone in the past would have called a war, either. It's kind of like calling a Harlem Globetrotters exhibition a basketball game.

[david_vincent]

16. Yep, Lincoln

You might also point out the obvious: that Washington, Grant, and Eisenhower actually fought in real wars and didn't go AWOL, unlike Gov. Bush. For that matter, Lincoln himself served for a short while in the military; he used to make jokes about his encounters with "bloodthirsty mosquitoes."

[w13rd0]

18. This shouldn't surprise you...

...but the wingnut is either ill-informed, uneducated, lying, or willfully ignorant...

[Westegg]

19. Bush in harm's way

What I read was that it was the first time since Ike that a Prez had travelled to an active war zone. Tricky Dick in the 'Nam? Hell, that's wild! First time I've heard about that. I'd love to see the photos. I'm surprised that particular commander-in-chief wasn't fragged by his own troops.

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

22. Didn't Truman go to Korea?

I could have sworn I've heard this before.

On Edit: Whoops! That was Ike. My mistake.

[Blue_Chill]

24. *ahem* war zone? I thought the "mission was accomplished"

Ask him why the iraqis didn't have a parade in his honor?

[SaveElmer]

26. Madison and Lincoln under enemy fire while President

James Madison was under British fire at the Battle of Bladensburg during the War of 1812. A debacle that was soon followed by the burining of Washington.

Abraham Lincoln was under fire by Confederate forces at Fort Stevens (Now on the grounds of Walter Reed Army Hospital I believe), when Jubal Early made his ill-fated attack on Washington late in the war in an attempt to break Grants hold around Petersburg.

[ieoeja]

28. Bush and Dolly Madison: War Heros

Here are a few. Were no Presidents ever near or in frontier territories during any of the scores of Indian Wars?

24 Aug 1814 - President James Madison witnesses US forces defeat at Bladensburg, Maryland
1861-1864 - Lincoln was continually within striking distance
Early Aug 1941 - FDR met Churchill in Atlantic Conference
28 Nov 1943 - FDR went to Tehran
27 Jul 1953 - Eisenhower visited
30 Jul 1969 - Nixon visited Vietnam

[kcwayne]

29. Truman went to Korea

[kentuck]

30. He is the first to do it since the last President...

Clinton went to Kosovo..

[AntiCoup2K4]

31. Now wait a minute.... Junior said the war was over on May 1

..therefore, he couldn't possibly have been in a war zone.

[Snivi Yllom]

32. not true

many president's, the most dangerous trip was likely Lincoln's.

[mandyky]

33. Shrub said major combat was over in May,

so was that Thanksgiving visit to a war zone?

[dpibel]

34. What a difference a word makes -- It was a first, just a trivial one

Edited to correct coding for unnecessary italics.

The real first (and I am not trying to give credit where credit is due, because there is no credit due the Fierce Warrior Chieftain) was: First president to visit Iraq.

Since both the modern media and the rabid right operate at the level of kindergartners playing "Gossip," what happened is that some talking head (or some empty head, listener or purveyor) heard "first" and missed what it was the first of, and recounted it as "war zone" instead of "Iraq."

And the mistake sounds much cooler than the truth, so that's what we run with.