Dean pays 50,000 for a conference room and Clark brings an RV?

[bearfartinthewoods]

last night i heard this reported. if it's true, the FL. dem organizers charged 50,000 for a conference room from all the candidates.

Dean paid.

The rest didn't.

Clark brought an RV to use as a conference room.

now, to all those who have donated to Dean...do you think the total of all DU donations equals 50,000? if so, congrats...you just rented a room in florida for a weekend.

the fact that Clark was ingenious enough to get the most bang for the buck and bring a RV impresses the heck outta me.

[Jerseycoa]

1. That's my man

Keeping an eye on my money. :bounce:

[Closer]

136. Why didn't

he just ask his pal Jackson Stephens for the money? I mean, it was to benefit the entire FL Dem. Party, and god KNOWS they need it.


Why is he so cheap when he has a sugar daddy like Stephens? :shrug:

[_NorCal_D_]

144. So you counter this claim

with a baseless, worn-out conspiracy theory?

Dean supporters never cease to amaze me.

[drfemoe]

164. Theory?

History.

..snip..
"In June of 2000, I was stunned to see an announcement in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette that a retiring Wesley Clark was going to go to work for billionaire investment banker and Presidential kingmaker Jackson Stephens in Little Rock. This set off alarm bells that Clark was someone to watch. In his current campaign literature, Clark lists his profession as an investment banker. And he is still employed by Stephens.

Stephens was the man who gave a down-and-out Bill Clinton a $2 million loan to jumpstart an ailing presidential campaign in 1992. There is also a glowing photograph of Stephens with a young George W. Bush in the brilliant expose of the drug money laundering and covert operations bank BCCI, False Profits. Several BCCI players, including Saudi banker Khalid bin Mahfouz, have been directly tied to the financing of Al Qaeda.
..snip..
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102003_beyond_bush_2.html

[Donna Zen]

171. Jackson Stephens is supporting bushco

But you knew that before you posted....right?

Thanks for spreading the love.

[Khephra]

2. Heard "this" reported where?

You got a link?

[bearfartinthewoods]

6. on the tube.....no link

[dsc]

20. a channel would be nice

So that maybe we could try to see a repeat of the report. Or are we supposed to check every channel on every cable system in the country.

[bearfartinthewoods]

30. sorry, i wasn't in a position to see the tube, only hear it.

the tube is in our waiting room. i was at the counter and can't see it from there. it was one of the three all newsees but i didn't recognize the voice. it would have probably been between 6 and 8pm.

[drfemoe]

165. It might be true

http://action.deanforamerica.com/meet/selectmtg.html?event_ids=10551&event_ids=9892&event_ids=10544&event_ids=10550

But So What?

It only makes sense that hundreds of Dean supporters need a place to rally.

Meanwhile Clark's bunch are in the RV .. LOL . that's rich.

[slinkerwink]

3. you mean the sort of RV that costs over $65,000?

I've seen Clark's RV and it looks really posh. Besides, I don't think enough journalists can fit into that like they would in a conference room. Do you even know how big the conference room is? If it's bigger than the RV, and holds more journalists than the RV would, then I'd say my money is well spent.

[TrueAmerican]

7. Maybe he can reuse it

over and over again. The beautiful thing about an RV is it can be moved.

[bearfartinthewoods]

9. did he buy it or lease it?

and the report said it was for meetings not for the press.

[slinkerwink]

13. so then how does it exactly function as a conference if there's

no press?

[bearfartinthewoods]

34. conferencing with dem activists

sorry, i should have included that. the report said it was for meetings with party activists. i didn't take time to take notes...so shoot me <grin>

in fact, it totally slipped my mind until i was cleaning out my mailbox just now and say some old funding requests.

[Hep]

70. dem activists

like a dozen of them. Sorry Clark doesn't have need for more space.

[Cooley Hurd]

85. Conference room vs RV...

Even the biggest RV's are no where near as spacious as a $50k conference room is (one would assume a $50k conf rm is HUGE). Besides, Bearfart says in a later post that the room is to be used for meetings with DEM activists. Could you imagine even 15 people in an RV? Crunchage!
<edited because I didn't see bearfart's later post about Dean's usage of the room>

[Capn Sunshine]

125. New, Clarks RV goes for 188,600

rigged as a campaign HQ, maybe tops the 200 k mark

[_NorCal_D_]

147. LOL, take your pick:

A $50,000 dollar room for one time use, or a $65,000-$100,000 RV that can last through an entire campaign.

[Hep]

149. Last through the entire campaign

So he's going to take the RV everywhere?

For a military guy he isn't very efficient.

BTW, how much of the cost of that RV went to the FL D party?

[wndycty]

176. There are actually 2 RV's

:kick:

[TrueAmerican]

4. That's how you do it int the military

It's called a Mobile Command Post.

Way to go General!

[Hep]

15. YEah, wonderful.

I have a rock van:



that I sometimes sleep in when the band is on tour. Frankly, I'd prefer a hotel room to my Mobile Command Center.

[whirlygigspin]

21. Florida democrats need funding

sorry to hear Clark decided to keep the cash for his new wheels

[Corgigal]

5. I think

that giving the Florida Dems 50,000 is fine. After what happened there last time they need all the money they can get to police that state.

I'm never impressed with an RV, but I'm a city gal.

[bearfartinthewoods]

37. it wasn't the RV that impressed me, it was the thinking behind it.

it's no secreat that Clark doesn't have mega bucks. but he sure made the most of the situation by both saving his money to fund his campaign and still provide a place to talk with the activists.

this kind of thoughful, ingenious maximization of resources shows me something and offers me something i can use if he is the nominee. it shows someone who knows how to watch the budget and still get the job done.

[Malva Zebrina]

174. and he can even make coffee in his RV and bake some cookies

saving even more money.

[RogueTrooper]

8. The money was a donation

to the Flordia Democratic Party. Non of the other campaigns were prepared, or could not afford, to make the same donation.

[ibegurpard]

12. My first thought was "$50,000 for a conference room???"

Didn't they shop around? But it makes sense that that the money would go to the Florida Democrats...money well spent, in my opinion.

[bearfartinthewoods]

23. did the people who donated want to give to the florida dems?

if so, i think they could have. i haven't donated to Dean so my objection is worth squat but she-bear and i do have 2000,00 (nearly)
saved and ready for the nominee. when we donate it, we will hope that the nominee will use it for ads to bust bush, not to rent a freaking room for a weekend.

to me, it smacks of showboating and extravagence. i get the emails, asking for money all the time. damn if i'd feel good about donating if i knew this was what it was going for.

[Hep]

27. Because god forbid

you help out other democrats, particularly in a state like Florida.

[salin]

90. I may be missing something... but how is it "showboating"

if it is simply paying the requested fee? Seems that this emanates from the Florida Democratic Party - not the candidate/campaign.

Showboating... would be spending extra cash on extra goodies... or staging some kind of huge media event (all of which might be the case - not being there, I have no idea.)

My nonprofit has had to 'pay for a booth' at community events - it serves as a donation, and allows us to get the word out about our services. This sounds like a similar deal - the Florida Dems - set forth a 'fee' to be able to participate (but a bigger event so it is for a conference room, as opposed to a booth/table).

If the cost is so high that most candidates can not afford it - then the question really should be asked of the Florida Democrats as to whether or not this was a fair practice?

[artr2]

178. Ever hear of a "FUNDRAISER"??

The Fla dems are usintg the event to raise money for the party. I really think some of you will find any FUCKING LITTLE TRIVIAL THING to denergrate any dem that is not your candidate. Hey why don't you email these little bits to Karl Rove. I'm sure he can find a use for them.

[unfrigginreal]

10. So, why is Clark being so selfish? The $50k was to help the FLA Dems.

Our campaign is about taking back the country and that includes the WH, House and Senate. It's not about stroking one guy's ego.

[bearfartinthewoods]

40. funny you should mention ego

that was the first thing that occured to me but i thought mentioning it would be too inflamatory.

[salin]

98. see my post # 90

because I really don't understand how ego plays into this? Certainly candidates have lots of ego to go around. But this has to do with paying a fee, akin to community organizations paying a fee so they can have a booth at a county fair. Seems that if the other candidates are finding themselves having to set up externally to the event (back to the fair analogy... setting up a stand outside of the parking lot to sell tshirts to people coming in and out of the fair grounds) - perhaps the issue is with the Florida Democratic Party and what they have chosen to charge to have a conference room (at a large event, the room is akin to the booth/table at a smaller event.)

This is pretty standard practice (charging for booths/rooms/etc.)

Grandstanding - and charges of ego - would fit if the Dean campaign was hiring a airplane to circle the venue with a streamer for Dean behind it. But this is simply playing by the rules and rates set up by the Florida Democratic Party. If you have an issue with it - it seems best pointed at the entity setting the rules and charges.

[bearfartinthewoods]

115. first, may i thank you for the tone of your response

this is the way we should all be speaking to one another. thank you.

second as to your point "playing by the rules" and "the entity setting the rules and charges."

you are right, of course. this is my problem. i 'bill' myself as a cynic and i pretty much am but there is still that part of me that aches for something to believe in.

Dean's initial promotion of taking the power back....taking the country back from the money brokers and powerful was sweet music to my ears. while i have doubts about him personally, i really respected his thinking on this.

now i'm seeing things happeneing, like his call to donate to a particular congressman that makes be disbelieve his sincerity. why pick ONE congressman and make a big deal about how much his "nod" was worth? what is the reason for that, other than to point out that he is now the power?

and yes, i do have a problem with the entity that set up the rules because by pricing the room so high, they are just re-enforcing the idea that money buys elections which is what i thought we were trying to fight with campaign finace control.

it seems to me that what started out as a different way of doing things has reverted to same ole same ole pretty quickly. maybe that's the way it has to be to beat bush but i don't have to like it <sigh>.

[salin]

123. You raise a valid point

but I think had set the tone as an attack on a candidate for playing by the rules set forth for this event.

I think the bigger picture you raise - is valid. When we keep costs so high, then we keep folks out and we reward the big donors - generally not individual citizens.

I think the bigger problem, is that many in the 'power structure' - haven't yet switched from reliance on this level of giving and the required split between corporate/ and pacs vs. individuals; to recognizing that money raised in smaller quantities - but by individuals, can collectively compete - thus weaning away from the influence of corporate pacs and other special interest pacs.

For example, in Florida last election cycle, there was a DUer running for state representative - kept us all apprised of the campaign trails (which was very informative). One of his first lessons was from the party - to expect fundraising to be done 85% pacs and 15% individuals. His goal was to shift that - and while I don't think he was able to do so to the degree he had hoped - it was not the general rule of thumb division (eg he raised more from individuals.) The second part of the equation that the strategists haven't shifted is on the spending side. Sadly, I don't think that this will be addressed fully until there is a better campaign finance reform bill (eg access to media by candidates at reasonable or discounted rates rather than at escalated rates - among other things) and public financing.

The Dean campaign has forced the dc strategists, at least, to start changing their perceptions of the first part of the equation. He is not the first to attempt to raise most money by individuals rather than pacs (think Brown in 92 and McCain in 00), but he is the first to do so with great success. I hope that this will begin to change strategists of many dem campaigns in the future - as it will force those office holders to be more responsive to their voters/constituents as those will be the donors rather than big $ special interests. THIS is what it will take to change some of the DC culture. While it has taken a while (because to a great extent this is a major shift and strategists didn't think it could really work) - more of the other candidates are shifting their fundraising methods and goals. This is a very good sign. And even for those who can not stand Dean, they should be appreciative of his success to date as it is this success at this model which is shifting more campaigns to do the same and in the end this will give us all much greater voice in the process. This has forced the dc based dem strategists to begin to rethink their strategies - which they have needed to do (were a bit insular... and didn't seem to recognize that the very aggressive, radical bush machine had changed the political realities and that dem strategies would HAVE to change to be able to be competitive this time around.) This benefits ALL candidates, and the party as a whole.

However there is no serious look at the second part of the equation - the ever escalating costs which forces the ever escalating amount needed to be raised (which - even with more individual-based strategies fundraising - will likely to continue a huge fundraising disadvantage for bushfolks.) THIS - or required public financing, however, is what will be required to make candidates independent of monied special interests. This also will be even harder to change, as the people who would need to change this (elected officials) as the advisors to those folks are the very industry that benefits from the system (the gazillion "political consultants"). Sadly this is what REALLY needs to happen. The example of the Florida convention demonstrates how these practices work to perpetuate the high expense of campaigns part of the equation. ON that, I believe you have a valid point.

But I would temper taking out the whole point on Dean, a bit. Your message gets lost, looks like it is pointing fingers at something that isn't quite how you initially portrayed it, and thus reads more as an attack than a critique on the system that works to perpetuate itself - while several candidates (and I hope in the future the party itself) are trying to work to bring the campaigns more open and accessible to we the people.

[slinkerwink]

145. he's also picking 20 other congresspeople to have us donate to!

[Hep]

11. Big deal

Dean's the only one who can afford it.

At least you can take a dump in the bathroom of the conference center. Clarks peeps will have to find a shitter.

[Hep]

71. Damn

I thought more of you would find this funny.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. Don't understand-please clarify

From your first line, I gather that the Florida Dems were charging $50,000 for a conference room to be used by all the candidates. Did they expect each candidate to pay the $50,000, or was that cost to be shared by all the candidates? I interpreted it as the latter. If so, it seems to me that Dr. Dean was the only one responsible enough to pay, and the others copped out. If it is the former, can you give me more information? Why so much? Was it really to donate money to the Florida Dems or something else?

[Renew Deal]

24. Or

he just picked up the bill?

[bearfartinthewoods]

50. i can't answer that for sure.

i was with a customer and i think i have reproted all i heard. it's one of those things where the tv is background noise until something
grabs your attention. it is my impression that the fee per room was 50,000 per candidate and obviously that would be a profit/donation to the FL party but i can't swear to it.

[Rose Siding]

16. You don't understand

It was a donation to the FL Dem Party and Dean is a team player, the party is learning. The room is a perk for the contrib.

To answer your question, I doubt that DU members have contributed that much.

[AmericanDem]

17. Yea Dean is mister money bags alright.

It's amazing isn't it? mister outsider, mister, i'll adhere to campaign cap spending. This lil rich boy is a politican all the way thru. Willing to say anything , then do something and anything completely oppisite so long as it works to his advantage.

I say let the lil rich brat spend what he wants. Beating bush is the main goal and all the money in the world wont let Dean do that. Most of America wont buy into this political salesmen crap.

[Hep]

26. Waiter, these grapes are too sour

You left out mister campaign funded by the people. He raised that 50 G's in hours. Just like he raised 50 G's for Congressman Boswell in Iowa. How much has your guy raised for OTHER democrats in Florida or Iowa?

[Nazgul35]

168. ummmm.....

The money that you refer to comes from those same Americans that you say won't give to this candidate...perhaps you should go over to the FEC and look up the money raised by different campaigns and see which ones have a majority of donors as a percentage of the total money raised under $200.....

I bet you'll be surprised to see where the General falls......

That's the point...Dean is raising gobs of cash from 100s of thousands of small doners....

real evil politician stuff....

:eyes:

[madfloridian]

18. This was a donation by Dean.

It was no strings attached as far as I have heard. Disney would NOT allow the rallies outdoors all of a sudden, so that might have something to do with it.

Go to Tampa for Dean and see what I mean about last minute plans.

[Military Brat]

19. I'm not finding anything on the Net to confirm this report

I think this is a non-issue for Deanies and Clarkies, IMHO.

[trumad]

28. We bitch about 50 grand

while Bush will spend millions on his campaign.... Bush will buy the whole damn Hotel... This is petty bullshit.... So let me get this straight? If Clark wins the nom and he rents a conference hall in the future, is he fair game?

[bearfartinthewoods]

55. Dean obviously has the money. Clark obviously doesn't yet.

it was Clark's ingenuity that impressed me. i want someone who gets the most bang for the buck. i think the country wants the most bang for the buck as well.

[Hep]

68. Let's talk about the gas mileage of that RV

while we're talking about bang for the buck.

[Beaker]

95. yeah, $50,000 worth of gas won't go too far in an RV...

:eyes:

[Hep]

99. LOL

The RV was free then?

[Malva Zebrina]

175. I travel a lot in a ten year old nineteen foot Coach House van

that I bought second hand and have met a lot of fellow travellers over a period of five years. Mileage in those big suckers is 5-8 MPG.

[Renew Deal]

22. I don't get your grudge.

Dean likes to blow your money when he doesn't need to? Why did you single out Clark when all of them didn't pay? Clark brought an RV? Great. I guess now you know what Dean is wasting your money on.

[slinkerwink]

29. it's a DONATION to the FLORIDA DEMOCRATIC PARTY

get it? Dean's using his coattails to help the Florida Dem Party......so why isn't Clark? I hear he's planning to get $12 million this quarter.

[bicentennial_baby]

31. Why don't you

stop worrying about what Clark is doing and focus on your candidate. You are sowing the seeds of division, and it's completely counterproductive, imho.

[dsc]

48. that is rich

given that you seem to have no problem with what the original poster did. So let me get this straight. If a Dean supporter criticises Clark after a Clark supporter criticises Dean then it is bad. But the original criticism is all good.

[Renew Deal]

43. Coatails?

Don't you mean wallet? So what, he threw some cash to the party. It can also be spun as him buying endorsements. He has so much cash he is paying these people off. It's an informal quid pro quo.

[slinkerwink]

47. he is NOT buying endorsements.....

this is a no-strings attached fundraising for the Democrat party. For instance, Boswell is glad, but won't endorse anyone until the nomination.

[Renew Deal]

51. Sure

Sounds like traditional fat-cat politics. Halet Barbor would be proud.

[slinkerwink]

53. it's our money that we donated! We agreed to this!

and we DO NOT expect an endorsement out of this.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

61. we're not suckers.........if Clark did this very same thing, would you

donate to a congressional race if he asked you to?

[Renew Deal]

72. Maybe

Depends on the situation and the candidate. It's not like deanies came out en mass. They donate 60K.

[Hep]

76. Which was more than

1/3 of the total money he has raised.

Look, I know you're embellishing a bit here, but do you really think that a national candidate is wrong for using his fundraising machine to help out other dems? I mean, yeah, politically it is a strong strategy. He would never expect an endorsement, in fact, it's probably clear that an endorsement is the LAST thing Dean wants from Boswell. But he's helping out how he can. It's kinda nice to see.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ibegurpard]

64. The anybody but Dean side.

sigh

[Khephra]

80. I'm now calling them DeeDees

For "Dean Detractors". They remind me of Dee Dee from Dexter's Laboratory.

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

73. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

74. I don't mean it.

I was just making a point.

[Hep]

78. I know

I'm softening up. I was a bit less HOT angry in another reply.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

77. this isn't helpful!!!!!

how is calling people suckers helpful???

it did start out differently but now it's changed. just because someone believed that Dean wanted a new way to "do" politics does not make them suckers. the "plan" has obviously changed but we can't begrudge people for their initial belief. hell, i wanted to believe too!!

[bearfartinthewoods]

67. am i being too idealistic here?

i thought the whole movement was to bring the party back to the people. i liked that idea. i liked the idea of cutting out the middleman, the power people who raise and dole out the money to people who toe their line.

now Dean is the middleman, deciding who gets the money and who doesn't. this just doesn't seem like much of a substantive change to me. just a change in who sits in the power seat...a change in who decides and what line others have to toe.

an early attraction to a new way of doing politics has morphed into the same 'ole same 'ole pretty quickly.

[ibegurpard]

75. Nice shift by the way.

You started out by criticizing what you thought was extravagance and now that you find out that it COULD have been a donation to the Florida Democrats you change your criticism to Dean deciding who does and who doesn't get money.

[bearfartinthewoods]

86. it's not a shift...just another few steps down the trail

you act as if each thought is seperate from all others.

let me lay it all out for you.

Dean starts out talking about 'people powered Howard'.
Send in whatever little you can because together we can beat the pubbie money making machine.

one year later it's 'Dean for America' deciding who gets money and who doesn't.
you don't see a change in the message? i do.

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bearfartinthewoods]

118. how was i mistaken?

Dean paid the money.
the others chose not to.

where is the mistake?

[Hep]

89. Yor timeline is WAY off

It was Dean for America before it was people powered howard.

And you still haven't told us exactly how Dean decides woh gets money and who doesn't. Did he send an operative to your house to prevent you from writing a check to YOUR guy?

There's no change in message. We went from send what little you can to try to send $100. Most people who were here for the original message have already given more than our $100 anyway.

But you still have some explaining to do, which you won't, of course.

[bearfartinthewoods]

102. Dean decides who gets the money.

Dean decides which legislature gets the money for their comapaign. Dean decides which state gets money for their state org.

what is it you need me to explain for you?

btw...i started out complementing Clark, who is not my first choice on how he handled his budget. i have also responded to other people's points that moved away from my initial point. that's called a discussion.

[Hep]

103. Wha?

That's not true at all. Dean has asked us to support all of our local representatives. The boswell thing is just the beginning. Throughmy Dean efforts I have donated more to my local party than at any other time in my life.

So yeah, you still need to explain. If Dean decides who gets money, how does he prevent people from donating to people he doesn't want them to donate to? I mean, after all, you're saying it is up to him.

[Hep]

79. Dean decides who gets money and who doesn't?

What the hell is that supposed to mean? He's the freaking Godfather now?

[slinkerwink]

84. just another interesting RW twist that they're doing.....

;-)

[unfrigginreal]

96. LOL...so you moved to the Clark camp?

ROFLMAO! Yeah, you won't have to worry about power politics with that group.:)

[bearfartinthewoods]

105. sweet geezus....can a person NOT belong to either side?

that's one thing that bugs me the most...

there is a whole shitload of "you are either with us or against us" thinking here. it's destructive and alienating.

i heard a report that set off thoughts in my head. Clark thoughts were positive. that doesn't make me "in Clark's camp".

[slinkerwink]

108. it's okay for you not to commit to any candidates yet

a lot of people here on DU are waiting------omg, it's snowing so hard!

[bearfartinthewoods]

120. our snow is over...about six in. on the ground.

i'm in PA and our primary is so late it really probably won't matter by then. in some ways it's a luxury since i don't have to commit but actually it suxs because my vote never counts anyway.

[unfrigginreal]

119. Your first post

Dean supporters, "congrats...you just rented a room in florida for a weekend", for $50,000.

Clark supporters, "the fact that Clark was ingenious enough to get the most bang for the buck..."

Forgive me for seeing that as a your guy's a schmuck but my guys smart, posting.

[bearfartinthewoods]

133. they are BOTH OUR GUYS

i just happen to like the way one of them handled the situation better than the other. and it bugs the heck out of me that Dean
paid 50,000 dollars for a room....even a banquet hall. imho, there are less expensive ways to accomplish what needed to be accomplished.

50,000 dollars is two years income for us. we have done without a lot of things over the last year to save two thousand dollars. i haven't seen the inside of a restaurant in 10 months. we postponed a newer car. saving almost ten percent of our income has been tough.

it grips the hell out of me to see that much money go out for something other than anti bush ads. she-bear and i have been telling ourselves that at some point we would be able to look at an ad and say WE BOUGHT THAT SPOT. now we could easily have bought a room to smooze the activists for a couple hours. smoozing should happen via vid at meetups and such. why do activists need smoozed anyway? aren't they already activated? i want to activate the inactive.

[drfemoe]

169. Anybody but Dean?

That's the drift I get from your posting history.

What amazes me is how folks can start Dean flaming threads and then act surprised when a lot of us don't agree with your assessment.

there is a whole shitload of "you are either with us or against us" thinking here. it's destructive and alienating.

Yes, I've noticed that too.

[salin]

100. then take issue with how the fla democratic party

set the charges/fees for the candidates to be able to have a room, which is akin to the county fair setting charges up for local nonprofits to be able to have a booth/table at the fair.

[bearfartinthewoods]

152. i can take issue with both

i can take issue at the price set by the FL dems which sure as hell excludes at least some of the candidates from having the same opportunities as others. and i can take issue with Dean for paying it.

[Eloriel]

155. oh,please

ANYone who has any money decides who gets it and who doesn't. Dean decided to ask HIS supporters if they'd like to support Boswell. I didn't get a gun to my head. Some gave, many more did not. If you find something objectionable about that, you probably don't have the delicate sensibilities for politics at all.

You may not like it, but money IS power (of a certain type).
Through the power of his message and his persona and a very savvy campaign, Dean has drawn a lot of supportes who have rewarded him with a decent war chest. he gets to do with it what he sees fit. He is WELL known as a tightward. I'm sure he saw this contribution to FL Dems as worth every penny. So do I. I trust him.

Eloriel

[Eloriel]

142. In your terms, every political contribution is

quid pro quo.

Eloriel

[TorchTheWitch]

107. flip, flop, flip, flop, wafflewafflewafflewaffle

Dean's using his coattails to help the Florida Dem Party......so why isn't Clark? I hear he's planning to get $12 million this quarter.

Brought to you by the same DUer who started the thread gloating about how much more gobs and gobs of money Dean was raking in then Clark...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=836591

[Hep]

110. UH

Dean IS raking in gobs more money than Clark. And Dean's still the only one actively campaigning for other dems.

[slinkerwink]

111. let me guess...........you're a kerry supporter?

since you seem to like using the word "waffle" so much. Besides, Clark seems to be doing much stronger with offline fundraising, hence the 12 million, than he is doing online fundraising.

[liberalmuse]

25. Dean is a tightwad...

and I trust he'll spend my money well. Good for him for giving $50,000 to the Florida Dems! They are going to need all the help they can get in 2004.

[maddezmom]

32. who cares...if Dean want to spend the money let him

another silly thread that does nothing but pit 2 campaigns against each other. :(

[Khephra]

33. There's a possible reason for needing a conference room

Computers. The Dean campaign is more plugged in than any other campaign. Maybe they don't have room enough for everyone in an RV this weekend?

Since we don't have a reference for this, I feel it's as easy to speculate on why it might be a good idea as it is for others to think this proves Dean wastes money...an idea that a year's worth of campaigning out of Dean really refutes.

[TrueAmerican]

35. Was this out of his personal finances

Or was it out of donations for him to run for President? Does he have the right to donate campaign money to other causes?

Time for an investigation? Who else is he giving money to? More questions than answers. The doctor smells.

[slinkerwink]

36. he's giving money to congressional races like Rep. Boswell

and I think it's about damned time! It's good that Dean using counting on us to support the entire Democrat party.

[TrueAmerican]

38. So is this common?

Politicians can take donations to run for office and turn around and donate to other causes/candidates? That doesn't seem right to me. That's like the Red Cross taking donations and turning it around and giving it to the RNC. The money is not being use for it's proper purpose.

[Khephra]

39. Money was raised specifically for the congressman

Dean supporters were fully aware of that fact. A "call" to help went out, and we responded. Your analogy is false.

[TrueAmerican]

46. So Dean is buying his support?

Now it makes sense.

[slinkerwink]

49. NO!

Boswell is not endorsing Dean or any other candidate until the nomination.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

59. ha!

:hi:

[Khephra]

62. There's nothing that anyone will say will make them happy

Oh well, another one hits the ignore file.

[slinkerwink]

65. I agree.......

this is kind of on the level of clinton bashing, remember?

[Hep]

60. Yeah, it makes sense

If you have to spend your time figuring out a way to use this great info to demonize Dean.

What? Dean saved a man's life? What, he was just bribing him for a vote?

That this is how you bring about conclusions makes me wonder why YOU do nice things for others. Does the posssibility not occur to you that he's doing the right thing for the right reason? Have you never done that?

[slinkerwink]

41. it's to our own Democrats!!

look, do you want the Democrat party to be united? Well, Dean is doing it by having us supporters donate money to congressional races where the Democratic candidate is under attack by Republicans.

[Jerseycoa]

52. No

The Dean supporters donated their own money for a specific purpose; not campaign funds.

[Hep]

56. Not how it works

WE donated to Boswell because Dean urged us to.

[Rose Siding]

134. It proves he has coattails and soothes

the nervous addicts of the status quo. ALL the other candidates will look to the party to help them. Dean is proving to them, money down, that support from regular people can help the PARTY.

As a contributor, I see this as being very wise. We need a solidarity and Dean is building it. I'm glad I'm a part of it.

[gristy]

42. What a POS post

If you think Dean (or ANY friggin candidate, including Bush) "paid $50K for a conference room" (and wtf does that mean? They rented it for a night? They bought it? Inquiring minds want to know), then as they say, I've got a bridge in NY you might be interested in.

Thanks for generating such stimulating discussion.

Oh, and thanks for all the research you did on the topic before posting. :eyes:

[Justice]

44. A New Low For DU

It is hard to imagine that people are fighting here over the relative worth of these two fine candidates based on whether they have an RV or rented a conference room.

Forget about freepers laughing at us, I am laughing at us.

Come on people, lets keep our eye on the ball here!

[quaker bill]

45. And the great thing about this is

That Dean actually needs a conference room, or more specifically, Ballroom H at the Disney Coronado Springs Resort, to allow any of his Fla supporters who wish come to the convention in to meet him and hear his speech. Apparently, it will take an additional ballroom to fit them all in.

The campaign expects an overflow crowd and local coordinators state that Dean will be comming to meet with them right after his floor speech at the convention.

Unfortunate to hear that Wes only needs an RV.

[Jerseycoa]

69. And then you had to go and say this

"Unfortunate to hear that Wes only needs an RV."

Snide, snide, snide.

I'm glad Dean needs a big conference room for his supporters. But please don't grandstand at my expense.

[Hep]

83. Harumph

I mean, I agree with you, but shouldn't someone expect such a reply to an OP of this nature?

[quaker bill]

91. Yes I did take a bit of license there, sorry

But it is better to have all the facts when creating a contrast between campaigns. Point taken?

[Jerseycoa]

116. That point

I will always take. Thanks.

[bicentennial_baby]

54. So? Who cares?

This is lame...Why are we bickering about conference rooms and RVs? Is this important? No, it isn't. Let's get back to the goal, which is beating Bush, not bashing each other.

[ibegurpard]

82. See here for the WHOLE story

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=836924

[robbedvoter]

87. Clark build a car from scratch when he had to - helps to be resourceful

Unlike the rich guy:

Master Howard Dean

by Ben Smith
http://www.nyobserver.com/pages/frontpage5.asp

Before Howard Dean was a country doctor, before he was the tight-fisted governor of Vermont or the angry champion of dispossessed Democrats, Howard Brush Dean III was a Madison Avenue baby."

And this galls me for one reason: Deean trolls come to our blog to point and laugh at our grassroots fundraiser for Clark (going on unsponsored by the campaign and in parallel wuth whatever other fundraising ) "Ha!Ha! We're rich! You're poor!" How very Republican of you!

[slinkerwink]

92. have you thought they might not be Dean supporters, but Rove trolls?

sort like like how Clark trolls come to OUR blog to say that Dean is McGovern or is unelectable. I'd bet my house that they're Rove trolls also.

[TorchTheWitch]

121. geeeeeeeez

have you thought they might not be Dean supporters, but Rove trolls?

You really need to back off of that one. The circle you're building there has you traveling right into the Rove troll camp you speak of yourself...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=836591

The "nah nah, weeeeee gots way more money then you gots" in this one was about as subtle as hurricane.

[slinkerwink]

122. is that you, Frenchie?

Sure sounds a lot like FrenchieforClark

[FrenchieCat]

158. Nope, that's not me....

But thanks for the compliment. It's amazing how nice juicy tender and gorgeous soft lips think alike.:toast:

[slinkerwink]

160. my dear boi seems to think I have a great pair of lips also......

;-)

[Hep]

93. If Dean is so rich,

why did he have to work to put himself through medical school?

I mean, you obviously have an intimate knowledge of his biography, so you should be able to answer it, right?

[Hep]

97. Laugh at your fundraiser?

Your fundraiser is no laughing matter. Your grassroots support is like the grass roots in my yard. But you'd have to see my yard to get it. Think brown.

Anyway, yeah, we're excited! We raised over 200,000 dollars in a few days. There's only one goal we've failed to meet. Why shouldn't we be excited?

[Justice]

113. Be Excited; Not Insulting

I am fine with the excitement - it is exciting.

But "grass roots" part of your post was rude. Why be rude? Why can't people post just the excitement - why the need for one upping the other person over and over and over and over.

[Hep]

127. Dammit

Stop being right.

I'm sorry.

[ibegurpard]

114. No need to be insulting

bad form :(

[Hep]

128. Total lapsse in judgment.

I apologize to you, too.

[bicentennial_baby]

117. That' not right

How rude of you, Hep. :-(

[Hep]

129. Yup

It was unnecessarily rude. I take it back with full apologies.

[TorchTheWitch]

135. ACK!

ROBBEDVOTER: "And this galls me for one reason: Dean trolls come to our blog to point and laugh at our grassroots fundraiser for Clark (going on unsponsored by the campaign and in parallel wuth whatever other fundraising ) 'Ha!Ha! We're rich! You're poor!' How very Republican of you!"

HEP: "Your fundraiser is no laughing matter. Your grassroots support is like the grass roots in my yard. But you'd have to see my yard to get it. Think brown."

SLINKERWINK: "have you thought they might not be Dean supporters, but Rove trolls?

AAAAAAAGGHH! Slinkerwink! Hep is a Rove troll! Get him! Get him! (well, you pretty much whacked that label on him yourself, so it must be so, right?)

You two really need to stop tag-teaming each other into the ground. You aren't helping yourselves or your cause.

[Hep]

137. This is the last time

I apologize!

[deminflorida]

94. Clark receives matching funds I think in early January....

and from what I read this morning, both Clark and Dean supporters dominate the convention. Sorry I didn't have the money or time to make the trip myself...but I'll be donating directly to the Clark campaign after the holidays and before his matching funds date in order to help him out with South Carolina. That state I believe will be the show-down between Dean and Clark. That state I feel Clark will win, simply because of Dean's stance on middle class taxes, and also because of the number of per/capita veterans in S.C. Strange that I received a phone call from the Edwards campaign and was invited as a delegate, I've been to two Clark Meetups and signed on as a volunteer but no one from the Clark04 movement has contacted me.

I don't have any idea why so many people are bitching about a 50K, Dean donation and a Clark R.V. Dems on here should be discussing the issues that the candidates represent in order that they may be structured in such a way as to beat Bush in 04.

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

101. Dean is a well-known tightwad

If he spent this money on the conference room, then there was a VERY good reason for it, whether it be as a donation to the FL party, room for his large numbers of supporters who no doubt have driven hundreds of miles to hear him speak, or enough Internet connections to sign up new supporters. Do you know that he stays in supporters' houses and at hotels like Best Western while on the campaign trail? Don't believe me? Heres'a snip from the blog
( www.blogforamerica.com ) From the Road: Chicago, Illinois
Greetings from the Best Western Hotel at Chicago's O'Hare Airport! It's been a long day, and one that's been filled with snow, sun and rain.


Did you see any pictures of the McFun mobile he drove around in this summer, donated by a supporter? No? Well here it is!



Honestly, this is just stupid, and I'd like to think Clark wouldn't condone this kind of needless in-fighting. Let's focus on the prize here, and stay focused on discussing actual policy differences between our candidates.

[salin]

104. This has to be one of the biggest non-issue posts of the week.

No offense but the issue, if there is one (I don't know if this is standard practice) - is that the FLorida Democratic Party set a fee rate for campaigns to be able to have a conference room at their convention - at a rate of $50,000. This, presumably, raises money for the party in excess of the costs by the party to house this portion (the room itself) of the convention.

This is similar to local fairs and special events that invite (for a fee) other groups (often both nonprofits, and forprofits) to "buy" space for a booth/table to present information (or sell goods, for the profits) to community members who attend the event.

If all of the other campaigns could not pay - it suggests that the rate set was too high. And that is the issue. Or perhaps the issue is whether state party conventions should raise money in this way - at to learn whether this is standard practice or something just done at this convention.

Campaigns setting stuff up outside of the convention rather than paying the rate, is akin to vendors setting up outside of a venue in the parking lot and selling tshirts to folks on their way in and out of the event. Some event organizers frown on this (as it cuts into revenues not only by not paying to set up, but also by selling goods that lessens the amount of $ brought into the venue). Others view it as excepted practice.

I don't see how paying the set rate - set by the Florida Democratic Party - is "Grandstanding", "about ego", or any of the other silly charges in this thread. This is either about ignorance of how events are generally run, or just looking for a reason to posture one candidate against another. NEither of which has anything to do with this situation.

Geez. When there isn't a fight to be had... let's just create one.

[ibegurpard]

106. And the ironic thing is

when the initial poster was informed of this fact, he simply switched tactics.

[bearfartinthewoods]

109. so sorry....i didn't know we were restricted to one thought per discussion

and there was nothing that i was "informed of" that wasn't in essence covered in my post. if you are happy that money donated to Dean is now doled out at his discretion, fine.

i just see that as replacing the old king with a new one and that doesn't fit with what i heard when he first started talking about taking the power brokers out of politics and bringing the people back in. the people are in all right but the power brokers are still in control.

[ibegurpard]

112. Look

If you want to criticize Dean for this then at least have the decency to correct your initial misrepresenation. Please don't try to say this was just a Clark compliment and not a Dean slam when you included the following:
"now, to all those who have donated to Dean...do you think the total of all DU donations equals 50,000? if so, congrats...you just rented a room in florida for a weekend."
Paying the $50,000 for the conference room that was charged by the Florida Democrats is certainly open for discussion but you started off with the implication that Dean is extravagant and didn't bother to acknowledge your error when it was pointed out to you.

[bearfartinthewoods]

140. i ask again..what error?

and if you followed the discussion, it wan't me that moved into 'Dean as moneyman territory".
s'cuse me for thinking this is more about attacking me for my opinions than anything else.

bug-bye.

[Octafish]

124. The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The Bat is up!

The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The Bat is up! BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up! The BAT is up!

Send money so Dean can talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk talk, which is ALL he's ever done. Except ski.

[slinkerwink]

126. mmmmm, getting desperate aren't we?

[Hep]

131. Jealous?

[ibegurpard]

130. It is?!

Thanks for the heads up! :hi:

[Capn Sunshine]

132. LOL--"the mustard jar is up! The mustard jar is up"

wait, mustard is yellow....The relish bottle! The relish bottle! No wait, not everyone likes relish, and ketchup, well that would be WAY too obvious., damn...we need a symbol

Ah! "cold anger!"

The iceberg is up! The iceberg!

[slinkerwink]

139. oooh......USS Deanial is sailing away from Kerry

;-)

[Bucky]

150. Octofish, you seem a little bitter

Go for a walk, get some oxygen.

[Scott Lee]

166. A little?? I see somebody who needs a Dean hug.

[Bucky]

170. No! No Dean hugs! That's how they spread the virus!

The Angry Virus. Worse than cooties.

[Cleita]

138. An RV can cost more than a house and most

big enough for a conference room start at $50,000, and that's a very cheap one. So no comparison here.

[Bucky]

148. An RV also lasts longer than a conference room.

An RV should last thru the whole campaign, tho they'd need to repaint it if he gets to run for reelection in 2008 (knock wood). That's an investment. Dean's $50 thou, tho really not a big deal, is simply gone now.

[Hep]

151. Wrong

Dean's money isn't gone now. It's now in the hands of the FL D party. How about the money spent by Clark on the RV? I guess it's stimulating the economy.

[Cleita]

154. Not only that, those big RV's get six to eight miles to the

gallon. The Bush oil cartel are laughing all the way to the bank. I'm really not knocking Clark on this. Campaigns are expensive no matter which way you spend your money, but to decry Dean for spending his money one way while to say that an equal amount or more of money is being spent in another way by a different candidate is okay, is the top of hypocrisy to me.

[Hep]

159. Yeah!

LOL! We'll have to invade another middle eastern country just to get the oil for Clark's RV! And you know the rule, right? NO #2 in the RV. Can you imagine Clark trapsing into a Flying J at 3 AM to empty his bowels?

[bearfartinthewoods]

172. only the inflated part of the price is a donation.

what is the price of renting a banguet hall at disneyworld? Thant money is down the tubes.

[bearfartinthewoods]

157. oh come on...

the 50,00 grand is a one shot deal. if the RV was purchased specificly for this event then they still have the use of it for the dduration of the campaign. if it was leased for the event it didn't cost 50,000.

[Cleita]

173. Excuse me but a custom fitted RV isn't rented.

[dd123]

141. I don't understand why a General like Clark seems to

not be a very good political tactician. Especially since he is such a brilliant man.

Frankly, his getting into the race late, having hardly anything in place at the time of his entering, skipping Iowa (which cost him the AFSCME endorsement) and going for matching funds doesn't give me confidence in his ability to think or plan ahead. Is this just chalked up to his newness in the political arena?

Dean's contribution to the Democratic Party of Florida gave him 2 very important things, 1st the goodwill of the party, and 2nd some very important access to Florida activists.

"For a $50,000 contribution to the state party, Dean and his supporters will be allowed to blanket the Coronado Springs Resort at Walt Disney World with receptions, rallies, information tables, even activist training seminars."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/state/7412592.htm

If Wes Clark thinks he will raise $12 million this quarter I don't understand why they are unwilling to do what is necessary to give him a good chance at Florida.

In addition, if Dean is able to do with Florida what he was able to do in New Hampshire re: organizing, we would have a much better chance of taking the state in the General.

[slinkerwink]

143. I agree with you on all points

that's why Dean's strategy of donating to the Florida party is a good one.

[leetrisck]

146. Clark has been using the RV for

cross country trips - he's had it for awhile I think - wasn't bought for just Florida

[Kool Kitty]

153. Sheesh, another slap-fight.

What's the big problem? Dean is getting a conference room. Good for him. Clark is using an RV. Good for him. Why is either thing a problem? Why does it matter? I wish that we could keep our eye on the ball and work together to get rid of the bunch of bums that are running this country.

[Sting]

156. All this arguing..

same sh!t, different day. Sorry, I'm slightly hungover....

[Toucano]

161. Unproductive

I find these "I'm more frugal than thou" threads to be unproductive.

I don't care if Dean eats mac & cheese and Sharpton eats fillet mignon. Or Kucinich stays in the Four Seasons and Carol is at a motel six.

If this is true about the conference room, the Dean campaign may have had other considerations that we aren't aware of.

It's nice to be impressed by the way a candidate spends money, but it doesn't automatically reflect pooly on another candidate who needs to or chooses to spend money differently.

[AWD]

162. That BASTARD!

You mean to tell me he's actually SPENDING MONEY on his campaign???

What a JERK!

[drfemoe]

163. So Clarks' bunch is

going to rally in the RV?

Obviously Dean needs a much larger room for his supporters.

Yeah, 'ingenious'.

[slinkerwink]

167. :kick:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

177. Where's that nasty Al Sharpton thread when I need it?