The difference between Dean and McGovern

[kentuck]

As someone who actively supported George McGovern, because I knew what a crook Richard Nixon was, I think there is a difference between Howard Dean and George McGovern. First of all, the country was not ready for McGovern's message. This was before Watergate and most voters were much more naive than after Watergate.

True, they were both against the war but McGovern was running not that long after Woodstock and the riots of the 60's. A lot of centrist voters were frightened of the long hair "radicals" that were supporting McGovern. They were associated with marijuana and the drug culture. I do not think the same can be said about Dean's supporters today.

Although the anti-war movement was very active, it was considered much more "violent" than the movement of today. At least, that was the perception of a majority of voters, in my opinion. Coupled with the fact that Dean is not directly connected to the "druggies", as was McGovern, voters are not afraid to vote for Dean. That is why I do not agree with those editorialists that try to make the comparison. The only comparison is that they were both anti-war. That is where the comparison stops.

[Hep]

1. Good points

Also, the simple fact is that in no way CAN Dean be just like McGovern. Nothing is the same since 1972. Can you imagine Helen Reddy if she just started out today?

[pistoff democrat]

2. I agree with you.

n/t

[mandyky]

3. Dean is not Anti-war, he was anti-Iarq-war at the time

Let's look back at the build up to the war in Iraq to see why Dean was anti-Iraq -
shrub had just passed 2 rounds of tax cuts
we were not done in Afghanistan
N. Korea was looming
the ball had been dropped in Israel
inspecters were in Iraq
we had somewhat successfully contained Saddam
we really did need support from the UN including Russia, China, France and Germany
plus there was no case for imminent danger

Dean was very pragmatic in opposing the war, he looked at the facts along with the costs, and said "no a good idea for right now".

I don't remember the McGovern campaign all that well, but I honestly do not see the resemblance folks make between Dean and McGovern.

[KittyWampus]

4. Wasn't McGovern Actually A Liberal?

Dean switched positions on several issues just before running for President. Dean governed from the center right.

I think the similarity between Dean & McGovern is more intended to highlight the fact that McGovern captured the Democratic base in the primaries but failed to win in the General Election.

In this analogy, I personally agree.

Dean might be able to squeak by, but it won't be enough to overcome Diebold.

We need a Candidate who can consistently poll Nationwide at above 55%.

We need a Candidate who can win by a landslide.

We need a Candidate who will be able to claim a Mandate upon taking office.

[pistoff democrat]

9. Yes!

McGovern was unabashedly and totally liberal!

IMO, had he been nominated, he would have been beaten as badly as Dukakis.

[kentuck]

5. In hindsight, the McGovern voters were much wiser than the Nixon voters

Don't you agree? :)

[liberalmuse]

6. I agree...

though the only thing I remember about McGovern is hanging around his campaign headquarters when I was 5 years old, staring at the American flag and the cool campaign buttons, or just doing kid stuff while my mom volunteered. Unfortunately, she was lured into Christian fundamentalism, and now votes 'pub.

Dean is much more centrist than McGovern, and his pragmatism and common sense approach to issues are going to sit well with the average (thinking) American. He definitely isn't a one-issue candidate. Dean has what it takes to get the center vote all the way to the far left vote. There's not much we can do about the Bush-worshipping masses who choose to steep their brains in ignorance.

[spooky3]

7. In some ways there are more parallels to Clark than Dean.

In other ways, there are more parallels to Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, Lieberman.

McGovern's decorated war service would appeal to some people for whom Clark's distinguished service is appealing.

Like Kerry et al., McGovern was a senator, not a governor. Governors have had more success winning presidential elections in the past half century.

McGovern was widely perceived as a "nice" but not charismatic man. I think several of the candidates, once they are better known by Jane and Joe Public, will be seen as more charismatic than he was.

My point is that McGovern's situation is quite different from that facing the Democratic contenders and that you can draw as many (or as few) comparisons to other candidates as to Dean. While it's good to study the past and try not to repeat the mistakes of failed prior campaigns (and McGovern's is not the only one that should be studied) it's important not to overreact to them.

[BadFaith]

8. Not the same.

While McGovern ran on the peace platform he did vote, albeit reluctantly, for the Tonkin Gulf Resolution that essentially began the Vietnam conflict in full and was also drawn upon to wage military action in Cambodia and other Southeast Asian nations. If we're comparing wars, and the TGR would be to Vietnam what the IWR is to Iraq II, than this analogy would fall more in line with a candidate who voted for the resolution but are now campaigning against the war, of which there are none. No condidate currently in the primary both voted FOR the IWR and are now calling for a full withdrawal of troops from Iraq. Of the four who were able to vote and voted yes (Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, and Gephardt), none are currently running on a "Full Withdrawal" platform.

As well, McGovern dropping his V.P. nominee had a severe impact on his campaign. Sen. Thomas Eagleton was dropped when it was revealed shortly after the party convention that he had been hospitalized on three occasions for depression and had undergone electroshock therapy. He was replaced by Robert Shriver.

[pistoff democrat]

10. good point -

repressed the Eagleton affair - poor advance work on the part of McGovern's staff

[kentuck]

11. That would be Sargent Shriver?

:)

[BadFaith]

12. Yes.

Sargent Shriver...

aka R. Sargent Shriver
aka Robert Sargent Shriver
aka Father of "Ma-Ree-Uh!"