I just saw the attack ad on Dean.

[Renew Deal]

Is it factualy correct? http://clubforgrowth.com/

It says he is raising taxes of all kinds. If this is true about Dean's tax position, how could he handle an ad like that in the General Election. The response ad he puts out does not address the tax issue.

[slinkerwink]

1. no, it's not factually correct

they're using the wrong kind of averages, when the average actually is $300. The averages they're using are from the upper middle class tier and the tier above that.

[Renew Deal]

4. What about the individual taxes they list

dividend, death, etc.

[slinkerwink]

7. just all lies

do you really trust the RW ads to be truthful?

[Renew Deal]

16. No

but Dean is going to "raise taxes". Which ones?

[cthrumatrix]

2. be realistic...how do you suppose the fed. deficit is going to shrink?

Americans are going to "stuck" with a major deficit thanks to shrub. Any candidate that says they can do this without raising taxes or abolishing what has happened is "nuts".

Look at Arnolds plight in Calif. it's fine to talk the talk.

[salin]

9. through "growth"

:eyes:

Ronnie and Milton Freidman finallly won out. Even some liberals have begun to accept this economic untruth - as truth.

[cthrumatrix]

15. through growth, taxes and cuts in spending.....it's more than one

i can't see manufactuing flocking back to the US...where is the job growth plan?

It's complicated and alot of hard choices will need to be made.

[depakid]

3. I just saw the response ad on CSPAN

And they handled it quite well, stating that as governoer he cut taxes twice while raising the miimum wage, providing health insurance for all the states children and prescription drug coverage for most of the state's seniors.

[Patriot_Spear]

5. It's a lie...

These ad's wouldn't be allowed if they were required to meet the same test of proof as in product advertising.

It's a shame they can't be sued.

[kentuck]

6. Dean says we are going back to the CLinton tax schedules...

and that is effective, because most people remember the Clinton years as a positive economic experience.

[sleipnir]

8. I'm all for rasing taxes!

We gotta pay for the government somehow and I'd rather see high taxes than a lack of services or funding for arts, etc.

Though, I believe this ad distorts the Good Doctor's position, like any good smear ad does.

[FrenchieCat]

10. This message might work

with Democrats. But it won't fare well during the general election, no matter how it is spinned. Whether it's $300 or $2000, raising taxes will be the nail on the coffin.

56%-61% approval for Bush, doesn't give solace that even at his worst, Bush still pulls in a majority.

[Hep]

12. Tell me

Did anyone claim Clinton was going to raise taxes when he was running in 1992?

Did Clinton win or lose that election?

What was Bush's approval rating in December 1991?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Julien Sorel]

26. Clinton ran on a platform that included middle class tax cuts.

Dean is running on a platform of raising taxes across the board. So it would be kind of difficult to credibly claim Clinton was going to raise taxes, whereas to claim Dean is going to raise taxes, all one must do is show a clip from one of his red-faced speeches. You then get two propaganda benefits for the price of one: a red faced little man angrily sputtering that he will raise taxes, at a time when the economy is beginning to rebound strongly. A votewinner for sure, that. For someone, anyway.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

[SPURGEMAN23]

11. Dean has a plan

This is my first post. I have been watching politics for a while and anyone who watched the pundits during the 2000 election saw the Gore pundits were constantly on the defensive. The other day on Inside Politics Ed Gellispe was on and Before Judy asked him a quesion, she read a statement from the Dean campaign that labled, truthfully, Ed as an Enron Lobbyist. That immediately put him on the defensive and essentially discredited him. I was thrilled. It was brilliant.

That is how the Dean campaign is different....they have a plan...they have learned from the past. They are successful at defining themselves.

The general election will be about what Dean wants it to be not the Cons.

He can run on taxes, healthcare, Iraq, terrorism and the corporate thievery because he is RIGHT and Bush is WRONG.

[janx]

13. That's hilarious! I didn't know that Mouse Gillespie was an

ENRON lobbyist! (Not that I'm surprised.)

[WilliamPitt]

17. He was THE Enron lobbyist

How do you think he got the RNC gig?

In this aspect, Dean's operation reminds me a lot of the Clinton campaign in 91 and 92. That instant-reaction team is awesome.

[Hep]

19. That instant reaction team

gets us the label of mindless anger mongers from certain folks and their candidates!

[NashVegas]

24. Oh My

I can't WAIT to see how this is going to play out.

[Arugula Latte]

14. Welcome to DU, Superman23!

:hi:

[SPURGEMAN23]

21. Thanks

It is refreshing to find a place where people actually think before they speak (post).

[cthrumatrix]

18. well said

[slinkerwink]

23. welcome to DU!!!!!

:hi:

[newyawker99]

27. Hi SPURGEMAN23!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

28. Welcome Spurgeman!

I'm not even going to ask what "spurgeman" means, I think I don't want to know.

But welcome! :hi:

By the way, you are correct: the Dean campaign has all the right moves.

[GR]

20. No, It's A Huge Lie...

Bring back the death tax, what horseshit! It isn't repealed until 2010 or so and then the repeal is set to expire the next year. Krugman calls it the "Throw Momma From The Train" Act.

The average is completely distorted. As you know if Bill Gate and I are in the same room our AVERAGE net worth is $17 Billion. That's the kind of phony, fuzzy math they're using.


The way to counter it is just the way MoveOn did. I saw that add and it's good.

[SheilaT]

22. Perhaps the essential problem

is that too many people have a total disconnect between paying taxes and getting services. Yeah, Bush has cut taxes, but mainly for the upper classes. And we're all paying more local taxes, tuition at public colleges and universities is going to climb out of sight, services are being cut everywhere, but that's good, right? Because Democrats would RAISE OUR TAXES!

Clinton, I believe, actually did raise taxes on the upper income folks. And we had the longest peacetime expansion ever.

George Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, and there's been a net loss of nearly three million jobs so far. Coincidence? You decide.

[SPURGEMAN23]

25. The problem is deeper

Cons have been sucessful in making there views be reported as mainstream on taxes and other "important issues" like God, guns and gays, thus intimidating elected Democratic officials.

Ask Jean Carnahan how it helped to vote for the first Tax cut to keep it from being an issue. She lost, i think she would have won if she rallied her base against it.

Democrats need to stop playing on the Con field and take the ball and play on their own terms and make the Cons come over and play.

[Cat M.]

29. Basically, it's correct.

By repealing ALL Bush tax cuts, he repeals all the individual ones the ad mentions, such as the estate tax (which they call the death tax), and the others that you listed.

The Bush tax cuts were very wide ranging and weren't just cuts on income tax.

I'm in favor of repealing the estate taxcuts, which Clark would also do by repealing the taxes on the wealthiest two percent (the only ones whom estate taxes really affect).

Dean will not survive the general election campaign if he's nominated. It will be hard enough for ANY democrat who wants to repeal some of those taxcuts. They will get hammered on it. But to say they want to repeal ALL the taxcuts--well, you can bet the ads Rove and the RNC run will paint Dean as a tax and spend liberal.

Then there is Dean's record in Vermont...he raised several different taxes and raised them quite a bit. (And yes, Dean supporters, this is true. I'm someone who researches very carefully.)

[Hep]

30. Wow, way to agree with the RNC

!

[BuckeFushe]

31. Look who runs the Club for Puke

Founded in 1999 by Steve Moore, National Review president Dusty Rhodes, Cato Institute president Ed Crane, Richard Gilder, economist and CNBC Kudlow & Cramer co-host Larry Kudlow and other like-minded pro-growth conservatives, the Club for Growth sends campaign contributions from our members to the most free-market oriented candidates in tight, but winnable races.

Additionally, repealing tax cuts are not RAISING taxes, they are simply returning the rates to where they WERE. But the pukes love to distort this fact. It you didn't have it to begin with, how can it be raised?

[KFC]

33. What?

"Additionally, repealing tax cuts are not RAISING taxes, they are simply returning the rates to where they WERE."

Nonsense, you omitted the variable of time.

[mmonk]

32. They are going to use that track

because he is camapigning about repealing their tax cuts to close the deficit. I could have told you that would be their strategy.