Florida Democratic Party Meeting .....thread 5

[Khephra]

Kucinich up now.

[Terwilliger]

1. "Imagine" was not the right song to introduce him

it should have been more upbeat

[Khephra]

3. I love the song

But I agree. It's just too dang slow and more than a bit depressing to me.

[Terwilliger]

18. Gimme Some Truth would have been better

:D

[xultar]

24. DITTO!! n/t

[fairfaxvadem]

6. that was my reaction too...

I had to switch channels during that bit...

[LiberalTexan]

19. I was rewinding the Dean tape during the "Imagine" song

but when I came back, I saw an angry little man with furled brows.

He has such a nice smile, though. Why can't we see his smile more?

The room is so quiet..... It's too bad. He deserves much more than that. At least the message is right...

[Selwynn]

7. That's what I thought as well

[kentuck]

20. I think a good Bob Dylan song would have been more appropriate ....

today....although I love the song Imagine.. :)

[onecitizen]

51. me too.......

but which one?

[Terwilliger]

84. maybe Positively 4th Street

[creativelcro]

2. I like Kucinich, too bad he has no chance...

[Terwilliger]

4. he's already speaking more effectively against Bush than anyone else

even nailed old Jeb

[absyntheNsugar]

5. I'm sorry - you can't help but like Dennis

I'm a Dean/Clark guy...but Kucinich is just such a likeable, reasonable guy.

In a perfect world, all of the US would be behind him...

[creativelcro]

8. he may be more effective in the end as Rep. Kucinich

[Khephra]

12. Agreed

I'll always go out of the way to hear Kucinich speak.

[drfemoe]

15. I like him

but nobody ever calls him on his *anger*. I say stay p*ssed off DK!

[dweller]

33. He has a right to be angry

hell I'm angry. I don't have to spend time around the repug cronies in the 'disneyland on the potomac' and fight them daily in congress like he does.

actually, that is one of the reasons i am drawn to DK. He is genuinely pissed at the *moron admin, and lets it be known.

knowing he's angry and has more power to work against them, relieves me of some of the anger i have.

dp

[ajacobson]

Yeah, or, there'd be more a lot more like him

hitting on WMD issue, x-celent

n/t

[laruemtt]

14. i agree with you

about dennis. he's the one of all of 'em i'd like to take a road trip across the country with. plus i used to be vegan and fell off the wagon and now am only a vegetarian and i think dennis would help return me to my higher self. in a perfect world, yes....

[LiberalTexan]

23. Yeah....

Dennis would go over big in Europe. Sadly, the US isn't ready for his policies....

We've got a lot of work to do.

Oh, geez....they showed a psycho guy with a tamberine. That makes us all look good.....

[Cheswick2.0]

9. DK has such a kind face

I think he is a genuinely good man.

[otohara]

17. DK is one of the Good Guys

truly

[creativelcro]

21. you are right about that... he seems so honest...

[Myra]

10. He's invoking the same fantasy/fictional theme Moore used

At the Oscars. Very good.

[Gloria]

11. He looked a little down during the Imagine intro....like he knows he's

beaten, but is going to screw up the energy for the crowd one more time...

[Terwilliger]

13. The truth -- Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...that's the truth!

Where are the WMD?? Where are the WMD??

[Myra]

16. Very nice. Weapons of mass destruction are in the US, and are

Poverty, etc.

[Myra]

22. Ohymgod he's wonderful. No more war profiteering (sp? :))

No more sweetheart deals for Halliburton.
Just fabulous speech.

[creativelcro]

25. hes' gonna bring up Diebold... wait and see..

[Malva Zebrina]

26. I really love this guy.

.

[creativelcro]

31. Is he a native american ? has some facial features..

[Terwilliger]

44. no

[JohnKleeb]

55. no

Hes Croatian/Irish, would be the first president ever with ethnic blood east of Germany, which is pretty amazing considering how diverse this nation is.

[creativelcro]

79. sounds good to me! Right, Kucinich sounds croat..

[xultar]

27. What we broke we pay for...Clark said it also. It is so true. I like DK

DK is my #2 tied with Kerry Then CMB, Gep, Sharpton, Dean

[fairfaxvadem]

28. voters don't really like the truth anyhow...

because admitting the truth, or voting for the truth, would require an awful lot out of Americans, many of whom, I'm convinced, are now convinced by the Repug line that you don't have to sacrifice anything for your country. You can have it all.

That's why Dennis won't win. His message may be too painful for too many to want to listen.

[LiberalTexan]

29. At least

C-span is honing in on the Kucinich supporters. That's nice. I hate when they show people just sitting there.

Now he's telling a story about his personal life. I think he's losing people....he's losing me....

[drfemoe]

34. same story he told

at JJ dinner. It's sad.

[LiberalTexan]

40. He told this same story before?

And, he's still bungling over every third word?? It's not very effective at all. I don't care about the gauze window co-co-coverings and the uh-tattered--uh rug......TELL ME ABOUT YOUR POLICIES!

[laura888]

35. nope - not losing me...

Neither Dean or Clark explained EXACTLY their plan for Iraq.

whats up with that?

[laura888]

30. he's the only one saying "let's get out of Iraq now"

he's right

[Nederland]

95. That's not his position

Even he says we shouldn't get out of Iraq until we can convince the Europeans to come in and take over. Given that that will never happen, his position is effectively the same as everyone else's.

[Kool Kitty]

32. This is a terrific speech.

And I think this is one truly good man, increasingly rare in politics now.

[creativelcro]

38. I think this man is working for the people

He seems to be putting HIMSELF after... Unlike Dean and Clark... I'll be voting for Dean and I know Dean has charisma, but both Dean and Clark are egomaniacal...

[creativelcro]

41. I don't get it... Why did Kerry get questions and Dean and Clark did not ?

[Khephra]

56. Just hold on

This lasts until 10 pm tonight, and Kerry and Edward's Q&A sessions were separate from the speeches. The convention also has events tomorrow.

[Gloria]

105. Edwards missed the Q & A so they asked him questions at the

end of his speech.

I didn't see any ?'s after Kerry's, I don't think.

Maybe they'll repeat the Q & A, I'd like to see it, too.

[laura888]

39. agreed. why aren't other addressing specifics about Iraq?

isn't this the main issue???????

[LiberalTexan]

36. Oh, man this personal story is DRAGGING

He needs to take this opportunity to talk about what he would do to change this White House and this country.....

HE'S LOSING EVERYONE'S INTEREST!!!!!! THIS IS AWFUL!

[ryharrin]

37. I really liked it.

Kucinich usually bugs me, but I'm liking him here.

[laura888]

45. "this pentagon budget is out of whack"

awright!

the crowd's going wild

[laura888]

49. "are we about health care for all?"

the crowd is really responding.

[Terwilliger]

46. relax...Clark supporter

:eyes:

[dweller]

54. LOL, the power of

the ignore function...
learned to use it during these threads. at least for now.
dp

[creativelcro]

68. ignore function is AWESOME!!! Ignore thread too...

Those freepers won't disrupt anymore... We should exchange lists of obnoxious users :)

[dweller]

85. no du'er stays on long

just maybe til i cool off sometimes.
Just trying to keep up with a thread in real time, and watching cspan, and on a dialup, taxes my system and resources...

but i turn back on any ignored as soon as it's calmed down.

free speech and all, you know?
dp

[creativelcro]

72. are they gonna show the questions ?

I just saw the announcer mention questions later ?...

[Kathleen04]

57. Well,

I think the story put a human face on those who are dying in Iraq..

[never cry wolf]

86. Brought a tear to my eye

Having a son of nearly draft age.

[Terwilliger]

42. "I'm not an insurance salesman...universal health-care for all!"

[Myra]

43. "I'm not an insurance salesman..."

"Universal health care universal health care universal health care!"

He's not afraid to use, repeatedly, the terms the Pugs attack.
I admire that!
He's not intimidated out of saying the right thing.

[KittyWampus]

47. Each Candidate Alotted Time To Use However They Want

I think...

Kerry decided to use some of his time for Q & A....

[absyntheNsugar]

48. Why cant the US be behind this guy?

I hope to God Dennis has a place in the 2004 Dem Administration...

[creativelcro]

52. I hope so too, and not only symbolic... But I doubt..

[laura888]

53. if the media paid any attention to him at all, he could win

"we must return to bilateral trade."

[KittyWampus]

50. Dennis! Cut Pentagon Spending

Oh Yeah!

[laura888]

58. "we have free trade, but not fair trade"

beautiful!

[LiberalTexan]

59. Party Chair Maddox yawning

oops! LOL Sorry Dennis! He's looking at his watch now....

[Terwilliger]

63. are you indicative of Democratic party assholes?

or is this your natural state?

[GreenArrow]

81. of course he's yawning

because he stands in opposition to everything DK is saying. If the party had more members like Kucinich, that jerk Maddox and those like him would be out of their jobs.

[laura888]

60. "we must be the party that stands up for the rights of immigrants"

repeated 3 times

[JohnKleeb]

66. Why isnt he the frontrunner?

:shrug:
Makes sense every time, I hear what he has to say. I subscribe to the old George Bernard Shaw saying, "some men look at things as they other men look at things that never were and say why not"
He's right too, we should stand up for the right of immigrants, we are all the descedants of immigrants, and one thing I really like about DK is how he often brings up the statue of liberty and what it means, and what it meant for his ancestors.

[Terwilliger]

61. I'm sorry, but Dennis needs a speechwriter

he does well, but I don't like a lot of his inflections and timing

[GreenArrow]

88. his speeches are written just fine

I think it's 'is timing and delivery that are sometimes problematic.

[Terwilliger]

108. k

I follow and agree...but I think his topic points are a bit scattershot...he needs to stay on one issue in a given segment

[cally]

62. I think this is the best speech

His ideas are great. I like Dennis alot.

On edit:

Ter..we posted at the same time. I just like his ideas and his passion. He yells too much IMHO>

[Kool Kitty]

69. I have to agree.

Clark's and Dean's speeches were both great, but this was the most moving. I missed Kerry and Edwards, we were digging the car out of the snow.

[Terwilliger]

73. I love his passion

but it's not helping him...he needs a certain stature that he doesn't communicate well

I agree with what he says totally...all the more reason I hate to see him doing so badly in the polls

[La_Serpiente]

64. This guy is awesome

this thread is a keeper. This will be a speech that will go down in Democratic history as one of the best.

Some people don't like ideologues. I do. I am somewhat between an ideologue and a pragmatist. However, ideologues bring you back to your roots, and that is what I like about them.

[w13rd0]

80. I was listening to an interview with Studs Terkel...

...who was talking a bit about Dennis. I would consider it a good thing if Dennis has a chance to speak at the convention, and were perhaps considered for whip position in the House.

[laura888]

65. "we are called upon to be courageous to vote our hearts!"

the crowd is going wild

[Khephra]

67. So far

Kucinich, Clark and Dean have given the best speeches in terms of getting the room going.

[Khephra]

70. 8-10 pm et

is the Clark Kucinich and Dean Q&A segments.

[cally]

71. I agree, but shame on the Florida Dems

for walking out before Kucinich's speech. It's rude and demoralizing for a candidate.

[JohnKleeb]

74. They'll be sorry

:) and I agree quite rude. Maybe this speech will be the beginning, the beginning of the momentum push.

[creativelcro]

76. I did not notice... people left ?.... Crap, I've been glued all

afternoon.. if somebody GOES there then they should stick around...

[wndycty]

77. Not necessarily. . .

. . .it is my understanding that this is not the way the Florida Democratic Convention is supposed to be. I had heard that no candidates were going to be there, then some of the candidates really wanted to use it as an opportunity to promote themselves. So normally they do not have this all-day session (they have been there since early this morning), I hated seeing people walk out but they had been there all day.

Can anybody verify what I just wrote about this not being a normal convention.

[Kathleen04]

83. Agreed. n/t

[madfloridian]

98. Just got a call from my husband.

He got to walk in with a sign for Dean. Actually he said a lot of supporters for Clark left after he spoke, then the Dean folks came in.

They had to make a lot of last minute changes when Disney decided they could not rally where they planned outdoors. Can't have us Democrats in public, I guess.

It got really hectic making plans. My husband and many many others only got in while Dean was speaking, and there was breathing room only. He did not even get to see Clark, and he wanted to.

I don't think it was an intentional thing, except in the fact that Clark and Dean supporters were in such great numbers. They were just packed in and had to leave.

[Myra]

75. Kucinich was fantastic

Can't we have a president like that?
One of the best speeches I've ever seen.

[KoKo]

78. Gotta Give it to Him! He's Idealistic and his Talking Points Stretch Us

to places where the best of Dem Ideals go out into the sun and thrive!

He sets a "Goal Post" where we need to go. We can't get there, but those Proud Dems who are not Kennedy's or Clintons still can stretch us beyond what we think is possible.

Go Get Em Kucinich! And love ya for trying!

[Terwilliger]

82. C-SPAN Just announced a Debate style forum for 8:30p EST

thats what I heard

[Khephra]

89. Hmmm...I can watch Bush looking stoned

Or listen to music until the next segment starts....

I'm outta here! I'll start a new thread right before the next segment at 8/8:30.

:hi: for now!

[dweller]

97. Thanks for keeping the threads going Kephra!

and keeping them shorter for those of us on dialup.

Prairie Home Companion on now with Randy Newman as musical guest.

dp

[Khephra]

90. dupe

[quaker bill]

87. When Dennis is up

there is no doubt about who is the most liberal person in the room. I can recall no other candidate in my lifetime that holds a candle to him in this regard.

Win or lose, I have to respect the man.

[Justice]

91. Dean and Clark

sorry for the delayed input -- my tv and my computer are in different rooms.

Clark - I would say as a Clark supporter that the pace of the speech was a little slow in the beginning, but it picked up and became very good.

Dean - it was a collection of speeches; spoke well off the cuff. Much more energy than Clark's opening half. Healthcare great. jobs great -I liked his focused on stopping the movement of jobs to china. He lost me completely though when he started criticizing democrats - this wasn't the place. He also lies about saying Clark supporting the war - and not many people clapped on this point so alot of the people in the room agree that he is stretching the truth there. He implies that all democrats supported tax cuts.

Flame me if you will - but that speech clarified my understanding of Dean. He frames the "party" issues in a way that I disagree with. He criticizes Democrats for past behavior (we are talking pre 2000 here) in reaching out to the middle when he himself was part of that behavior. He says the way to win is to secure the base and then reach out -- which explains why he is blaming us for this past behavior and why he is running as a liberal. I really really disliked his behavior against other democrats - he is like holier than thou when really he was NO different. He may think this is a winning strategy, but I don't. I wish he would just talk about the issues.

[WhosNext]

92. Kucinich sort of blows

Get out of Iraq now? How realistic is that?

I saw him speak at my school and his fantasies about cancelling NAFTA and leaving the WTO are just that, fantasies.

[laura888]

99. but isn't that what's good for America?

really?

[WhosNext]

102. Leaving the WTO is good for America?

LOL Take a basic economics course.

Also, just up and leaving Iraq wouldn't be very good either. I agree we need to internationalize the effort as much as possible, but to simply say "UN in, US out" is idealistic at best.

[laura888]

104. to say that the Iraqis can't govern themselves is patronizing

they may have some hard times, but please, are we REALLY helping things?

Kucinich is right - these are the same arguments that were made about Vietnam.

[WhosNext]

110. Leaving Iraq right now would not help the Iraqis govern themselves.

Leaving the country in turmoil would benefit the Iraqis? It'd be perfect for al-qaeda and Baathists to just move right in. I agree with the perception that the effort needs to be internationalized, but to just up and leave Iraq in the hands of these vociferous groups is ill-advised.

[laura888]

113. ok - so you're in favor of handing it over to the UN?

I'd agree with that.

[WhosNext]

115. Yes, as much as they would accept.

But to just say "UN in, US out" is fucking stupid.

[laura888]

119. hmmm.... please explain your simplistic view

just don't understand the problem here...

[WhosNext]

124. LMAO simplistic? Kucinich is the one who's simplistic.

Like saying "UN in, US out" will somehow magically make it happen. Like leaving the WTO will somehow solve all of our economic problems. Yet I'm simplistic? bwahahahaha

[laura888]

107. how has the WTO benefitted America?

I mean the majority... and NOT at the expense of slave labor in 3rd world countries? I haven't heard a good explanation on this yet.

but go ahead and give it your best shot.

[WhosNext]

123. "slave labor"? please

So, they're being forced to work in these places against their will? If the conditions are so horrible, then why are they working there? I guess the wonderful jobs and income they had before free trade were so much better <sarcasm> The truth is, the influx of these jobs are actually BETTER than what these folks had before. Ask South Korea, Thailand, Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia et al what free trade has done for them. Yet, you want to pull out the BIGGEST force in the trading community from trading with other countries. You want to return to an overly protectionist style economy where the economy itself is run so inneficiently as to envoke a South American style depression (by the way, the reason many of the latin countries havent improved the way say, the little tigers have is because many of the latin countries are STILL trying to recover from the ridiculous depressions their overly-protectionist economies have always been). So according to, Bush was WRONG to lift the steel tariffs, correct? We shoul continue to subsidize and promote inneficient economy at the sake of everyone?

[GreenArrow]

100. fairy tales can come true

Fairy tales can come true, it can happen to you
If you’re young at heart
For it’s hard, you will find, to be narrow of mind
If you’re young at heart"

[laura888]

103. surely the "new deal" was considered fairy tale material...

...at its inception.

[GreenArrow]

109. don't get me wrong

I think DK's position on Iraq and WTO/Nafta are the only sensible and realistc ones yet offered.

[Myra]

106. "Get out of Iraq now? How realistic is that?"

It's very realistic if we leave it to UN troops
to keep order and let the Iraqis choose their own
leadership (likely they'll choose someone the US gov't
doesn't like but it's their friggen business) and quit
selling off *their* country for Halliburton profits.

It's unrealistic if you're an exec at Halliburton.

As far as "fantasies," right now all of the candidates
are talking fantasies, dreams, plans. If Diebold and their
ilk will let us, we can turn them into reality in the near future.

[WhosNext]

112. You're assuming the UN wants to take over the military operation.

An operation of which the UN wanted nothing to do. Alot of hypotheticals here.

[laura888]

118. if we agree to not profit from our actions, and pay reparations....

...to the innocents that were hurt, the UN will probably take over the reins.

this is what we need to do.

[WhosNext]

125. Probably, huh?

:eyes:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

93. Post-convention commentary on CSPAN

Adam Smith, Political Editor of St. Pete Times, said:

"The Winner of the Florida convention is Howard Dean. The runner up is Somebody Else."

[Zomby Woof]

94. Dennis was ON FIRE!

Personally, I was gripped by the story of the parents handing over their photos to him. The same kinds of Americans now have their own children in Iraq and elsewhere, doing Halliburton's work.

This was meat and potatoes old-style Democrat rousing! (Sorry Dennis, I know you're a vegan, but that was a MEATY speech!) :D

Best speech today IMNSHO.

[JohnKleeb]

101. Ive heard him talk about his parents before

They never owned a house or got to see their Social Security checks, so I can see why he wants to bring the retirement age back to 65. Many of my great aunts and uncles the same thing happened. He is very old school somewhat yet new school in a way too, most people don't like personal ancedotes but I like them, gives us the chance to see the candiate as a human.

[Zomby Woof]

111. the emotion was genuine

I am a certified cynic, so if it gets to me, it's valid.

[JohnKleeb]

114. Then why arent others getting it

:shrug:

[Zomby Woof]

122. at the risk of sounding blunt

Robot candidates = robot supporters. :shrug:

[neebob]

96. Nothing like the voice of the Evil War Chimp

to kill the mood. I was going to say something about the many inspiring speeches I've heard today, but now here comes the inarticulate smirking arrogant asshead. "I'm an optimistic guy," sez he. Ugh! Could he be any more condescending? Someone turn off the projector. Make him go away!

[creativelcro]

117. yeah, chimpy is an awful orator...

many kids in high school are better than he is...

[UrbScotty]

116. Time to start Thread 6, Kef. (nt)

[neebob]

121. If you're referring to my post

I'm sorry. If I'd seen the other thread that started while I was shifting gears from impassioned optimism to uncontrolled projectile vomiting, I'd have posted my comment there. Forgive me!

[chookie]

120. I love that man

All of the speeches were terrific today, but Dennis's -- it was something else. I found myself transported back to the 60s, recalling the voices of hope and promise of that great era.

People are afraid that this guy is "weak?" What a joke! The "peace candidate" is the toughest guy running!

[Moderator]

126. Locking....

Please continue here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=840318



Thank you.

DU Moderator