I think we can safely say Dean is not "The one the Republicans want"

[kiahzero]

I'm waiting for the Florida Q&A come on, and Ed Gillespie is absolutely slamming Dean with falsehoods and smears.

Can we put this meme to rest now?

(By way of disclaimer, I am a Clarkie).

[slinkerwink]

1. thank you for saying that

I also watched that. They're afraid of him like they are of Clark, by not putting his name on the RNC page.

[kiahzero]

4. I'd say that's a reasonable analysis

I think they're afraid of Kerry too, but they effectively smeared him a long time ago, and he doesn't look like a threat to them right now.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

2. I don't think they want ANY of us!

If it were up to them, they'd cancel the damn election.

But of all, I think they want Dean or Clark the least. These 2 candidates have not only shown that they can raise money and generate excitement, they are both bringing a lot of new people back into the process.

I bet their biggest fear is Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean.

[wtmusic]

3. good sign

if Clark gets nominated it'll be his turn. Time to watch the 'pubbies squirm.

[Beacho]

5. Of course we can

The Briar Rabbit Routine isn't working


The '72 comparison isn't working

Why?

Because the GOP dirty tricksters have taken one too many trips to 'sneaky tricks' well, and that sucker is dry

Dried by the sheer heat of anger of a great majority of the public, as well as over use.

Dean Clark or Clark Dean, either way it's the best shot to stomp a mudhole in the ass of this fascist.

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

6. Awwww, c'mon guys!

You don't think what's REALLY happening is that the Republicans really want Dean, so they're acting like they don't want Dean, so we'll think they're afraid of him, when in fact he's really the one they want?

The preceding was a sarcastic post.

[Prodemsouth]

It is sad that you think it is sarcastic - because you are right.

n/t

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

18. My friend

I must respectfully disagree. You are giving those guys WAY too much credit.

[Jim Sagle]

35. Or giving us way too little.

[ferg]

24. no, he's right

The Republicans are arguing against Dean because they know that we know their attacks against Dean are a feint, so clearly they are afraid of Dean.

But Rupert Murdock is from Austraila. And everyone knows Australia is populated by criminals, so therefore their feint is real so clearly they want Dean to be the nominee.

But the Republicans also know that we know that Murdock is from Australia, so we would clearly distrust that ploy, so clearly they are afraid of Dean.

[NashVegas]

60. This Is Just Getting Too Much Like the Princess Bride

"Clearly, I cannot choose the wine in front of ME."

[Guaranteed]

66. CLEARLY.

Checkmate!

[SadEagle]

11. Looks like you predicted #7

;-)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

19. I have profound psychic abilities

Here's an example: I predict that in 2004, a famous celebrity will have marital difficulties.

[Prodemsouth]

7. Have you ever thought they might be attacking him because they want

people to assume he is the front runner. Could be by attacking him they are making him the news and focusing Democrats and the nation at large on his candidacy? In my opinion if they were scared of him they would be ignoring him.

[Stuckinthebush]

9. No, no, no....

They want us to think that they think that we think that they are afraid of Howard Dean!

At least that's what I think.

[blm]

8. Wrong...they were always going to attack him....

they were just waiting till they were sure he was the nominee. Now they are playing the "inevitability card" to assure that Dems unite behind Dean because of their attacks.

Stephen Moore, of Club for Growth, is actually quite fond of Dean and wrote a glowing piece on him for the Weekly Standard last September. They know that attacking Dean now will insure that Dean is their opponent as Dems come to defend him from those attacks.

[kiahzero]

14. Inevitability card?

He just said that his opinion is that five or more of the candidates are viable, and the primary is wide open.

How is that playing the inevitability card?

[blm]

21. He said that at the same time they have Moore running ads

in Iowa pinpointing Dean and Gillespie is talking FROM Vermont.

The GOP always plays the "inevitability card" for their own primaries, and even during recount, and now they are playing it for us.

Remember how Gray Davis engineered to get Simon as his opponent instead of Riordan? It's a political trick, and the GOP is even BETTER at it because of their influence on the corporate media.

[Eric J in MN]

10. What did Gillespie say about Dean? (nt)

nt

[slinkerwink]

15. Gillespie said Dean was going to raise taxes

[pansypoo53219]

23. damn straight

ON THE FUCKIN RICH WHO INSTALLED THE CHIMPEROR.
we gots a deficit those guys MADE.

[FrenchieCat]

44. Does look like the Repubs want Dean after all....

Looks like that what they are saying at the Freeper sites! They want Dean allright. Trying to use a little reverse psychology, it appears!
Thank god for the internet...although now I have to take a shower!

http://www.polipundit.com/

Boosting Dean by Burying Him

Deborah Orin is buying my theory that the recent criticism of Howard Dean by prominent Republicans is a move to boost Dean's stature:
"It's very smart - every time they pick fights with Dean, it just serves to elevate him in the Democratic race," says a Republican strategist. "It's good for both of them. Both sides want a Dean-Bush race."

Why? Because polls suggest Dean would be pretty close to the weakest Dem against Bush and he offers the sharpest contrast in ideology and personal style.

So this week Republican National Committee chairman Ed Gillespie went to Dean's home state of Vermont to zing him, then did it again last night in politically potent New Hampshire - and he hit Dean harder than any other Dem has.

Republicans are trying to cleverly take advantage of the surprise dynamic of the race - attacking Dean just reinforces his support. And since Dean fans hate, hate, hate Bush, they love Dean even more when Bush allies attack him.
As I've suggested, if Dean's momentum in Iowa and New Hampshire begins to stall, President Bush should himself consider saying a few negative things about Dean.
posted by PoliPundit at 5:19 AM Link to this post | Comments (15)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

73. Well... yeah, he is.

Tell me when they slam him on defense/Iraq/etc...

[kiahzero]

16. The typical

He's for raising taxes, he's attacking the President for cutting combat pay when he hasn't, Vermont suffered underneath his governorship, etc.

[Eric J in MN]

20. I wish Dean would mofidy his tax position to make it more acceptable (nt)

nt

[kiahzero]

22. So do I

but it's not really raising taxes.

[maddezmom]

12. I agree with you both....

what is this guy's history with Enron? Someone mentioned it on another thread. Just curious, as usual.

[Myra]

13. I'm getting more convinced that none of the leading Dems are...

...Rovian misdirection candidates.
Not Dean not Clark (obviously not Kucinich :)).

It's a shame we have to be so suspicious about decoy Dems...
but it's a valid concern in the Orwellian era.

Frankly Clark himself, and the smears that crumble under
scrutiny, are convincing me with him.
And Molly Ivins, who I respect as much as I respect anyone
in the world, is helping me feel a bit more comfortable
about Dean.

Molly...(humor me; I just like saying that name).

[wtmusic]

17. This is much more complicated than that

They are attacking him so Dean will *think* they don't won't him to run, because if they thought Dean thought they were attacking him just to make him think so, people will think he really *isn't* the best candidate, otherwise they wouldn't attack him that way.

[ecstatic]

25. umm... english please

:-) Just kidding

[wtmusic]

Me too

j/k...

the analysis thing has gone too far. Gillespie is attacking him because the GOP knows (now) that he will be a threat. It's that simple.

[Myra]

48. "the analysis thing has gone too far."

Inclined to agree.
If for no other reason than the double triple somersault reverse
psychology is confusing me so much I'm getting dizzy(er).

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. I Don't Know Who The Republicans

want to run against but to dismiss a party that controls the White House, the House of Representatives, the Senate, and twenty eight out of fifty State Houses as stupid is criminally negligent....

[formactv]

27. Nation article on Clark

Has this come up on the list? I just read an insightful article in the last Nation.

[kiahzero]

31. You mean the smear piece, "General's True Colors"?

Yeah, it's come up a bunch. It was full of crap.

[eileen_d]

70. Replace "insightful" with "atrociously snide"

and yes, I read that one.

[JackSwift]

28. They want Hillary

duh.

[Julien Sorel]

29. I think the Republicans have decided Dean

will win the nomination, and no longer focus so much on trying to pick the nominee -- that part of their job is done, they feel. The second part is defining Dean the way they want him defined. Dean himself has already done part of their work for them.

[dansolo]

30. The Republicans want someone who won't fight back

They want to control the message, period. Why do you think they are frantically raising money for Bush? The last thing they want is someone who can raise a lot of money, and who is willing to use it. They defeated Gore because he was ineffective at countering the attacks, and he did very little to point out Bush's deficiencies.

[Beacho]

32. Simple...

perfect, and directly to the point. Answers all the questions presented here.

Now let's stop worrying about their fascist message and work on our own.

To Horse! To Horse!

[mot78]

33. The Repugs DO want Dean

Gillespie is just attacking Dean as a way of hiding his tracks. He wants to show balance. That said, I think they're underestimating Dean and he is stronger than people would think.

[Gman]

34. No, we can't safely say that

Gillespie is, along with the SOP of tearing down a Democrat, firing up the far left of the Democratic Party. He's just trying to piss them off more to turn them out to vote for Dean. Project Fuckrat.

[KittyWampus]

36. Dean Is A Win/Win For The GOP

Dean is one of the weakest canidates in many respects to put up against Junior...

And even if he wins, Dean is beholden to Big Energy and people like the Koch Brothers because they are the ones who funded him as Governor and who also helped seed Dean's Presidential Campaign.

Those papers that Dean has sealed most likely contain uncomfortable evidence of Dean's involvement in helping Intergy purchase a power plant below the real value.

Even if Dean's papers are never released... Rove and Co. know the whole story about what went on in Vermont regarding Dean & the Energy Industry.

If Dean is nominated and somehow manages to squeak into office... Rove will have him by the shorthairs.

Dean isn't a Liberal anyway and is pretty much right of center... his 11th hour switch on issues gives little confidence that he sincerely believes in Liberal values or causes.

[Patriot_Spear]

37. Dean's going to get the nomination.

Get used to the idea.

We have a great group of candidates, each strong and admirable in their own right; but Dean is running on all cylanders and we Deaniacs aren't about to quit.

Dean attracts fighters.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Patriot_Spear]

40. The fact that you feel the need to attack Dean speaks volumes...

I think most Dems who 'fear' Dean do so because they have confrontation avoidance issues- they are unable to stand up for themselves and they're project their frustration over this onto Dean.

But all this is beside the point- Dean is the leader and he's only going to get stronger.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Julien Sorel]

49. ROFL

Yasss, people just like me. I run from confrontation like a striped-tailed ape. Hilarious.

You have the power! You have the power! You have the power!

[Patriot_Spear]

51. Yes, Clark will make a good VP!

Good luck.

[Julien Sorel]

65. Even VPs need to be elected.

Like 'The power,' I think you would need the luck more than I do, so keep it.

[eileen_d]

68. OMFG... spare us the psychoanalysis

Some people fear Bush being re-elected, and they see Dean as the route to that. I'm not one of them, by the way - I think Dean is electable and all those other good buzzwords, even if he's not my favorite.

But for the love of GAWD, lay off the "avoidance issues" crap. :puke: It is possible to have reservations about Dean's qualifications without requiring therapy. Other candidates confront Bush and his policies all the time; people appreciate the various styles in which they do it. Ugh...

[blm]

39. You mean Entergy. A Koch Industries firm.

Gee....maybe someone at Entergy was sick and Dean was keeping their correspondence private. Isn't that what Dean Defense will claim?

[Rose Siding]

59. I think you are light on facts

First, what dollar amt specifically qualifies as "seed" money for Dean's campaign? I'm coming up with about 20 grand and not even a detractor would think a pol could be had for that kind of scratch.

"those papers" most likely contain nothing at all of any import. VT politics is an open book- citizen legislators, no room to hide- so this is mostly empty rhetoric, I suspect.

As for Rove "knowing the whole story", WHY would the RNC be going full bore at Dean now, yet withholding something that might stick? They don't WANT to face this guy. The Dems who support Dean are *invested* in their candidate so unless it's hair raising, he's teflon.

The image of anyone trying to grasp Dean's shorthairs is too funny- he'd breath fire at them and we'd cheer.

No one ever claimed Dean was terribly liberal but his whole career is evidence that he is a Democrat- a left of center-moderate-progressive-open-to-new-ideas-when-they-make-sense-and-doesn't-it-just-drive-you-nuts-that-he-doesn't-fit-into-the-square-hole?

[FrenchieCat]

41. I don't know....

the Polipundit site ain't saying that at all....They are saying:

http://www.polipundit.com/ go 2/3 way down the page...
Friday, December 05, 2003
The Dean/Clark Story

Deborah Orin and I seem to be mind-melding lately. Here's the money line from her latest piece:
If can beat Kerry in New Hampshire, he'd have a chance to emerge as Dean's chief rival.

posted by PoliPundit at 9:01 PM Link to this post | Comments (7)


Dean Leads in South Carolina

Howard Dean has a slight lead in South Carolina. Go, Dean, Go! Dean's campaign is taking the fight to the February 3 states.
posted by PoliPundit at 11:27 AM Link to this post | Comments (8)


Give, Give, Give

To everyone who took up my call to donate to Howard Dean in June, here's your new assignment: Give all you can to John Edwards and/or John Kerry.

The rationale is simple:
1. We still want Dean to be the nominee so that President Bush can crush him and have long coattails.
2. The biggest threat to a Dean nomination is no longer Dick Gephardt, John Kerry or John Edwards. It's Weasel Clark, for all the reasons outlined below.
3. To help Dean, we have to bring down Clark's vote totals in the crucial states of New Hampshire and South Carolina.
4. In New Hampshire, donating to neighbouring-son John Kerry will help ensure that Clark won't surpass expectations by finishing ahead of Kerry.
5. In South Carolina, Clark can be stopped by neighbouring-son John Edwards.

Donating online is easy. Just click here to donate to Kerry or click here to donate to Edwards.
posted by PoliPundit at 7:07 AM Link to this post | Comments (13)


Clark is Not Out

Mickey Kaus agrees that Weasel Clark is the most likely Great Anti-Dean Hope:
Dean, Clark, Hope for Sparks: The more I think about it, a turning point in the Democratic presidential campaign has to come with the first N.H. poll showing Clark ahead of Kerry and in second place. It could come any day now. Clark's only three points behind in one poll and only two in another. And Kerry's fading while Clark is rising. ... When the lines cross, several things will happen: 1) The main surviving rationale of Kerry's campaign--"I'm the electable alternative to Dean"--evaporates. It turns out there's a more electable alternative. Kerry's vote asymptotically approaches zero. 2) The #1 versus #2, Dean versus Clark match up will get lots of play in the press because Clark's strengths are Dean's weaknesses, yielding a story line that is simple and compelling: "Peacenik McGgovern II versus Electable Military Man. Which will the Democrats Choose?" ... 3) Clark will get a lot of favorable treatment in this new round of coverage--in part because the press feels guilty about giving Dean (as The Note notes) a relatively easy time so far, in part because the press wants a close race. If Clark's ready with an appealing message when the spotlight turns to him, he could give Dean a scare and at least come close enough to winning to get a boost for the post-N.H. primaries. ... P.S.: I flew this scenario by a number of knowledgeable political reporters at a party I was just at, and none of them bought it. So it's not the CW! It's quirky and contrarian! I want big points if it pans out. ...
Me too! Kaus missed one more reason why Clark will become the anti-Dean: his fundraising. The Clark campaign expects to raise over $12 million this quarter. The announcement of Clark's fundraising numbers in early January will turn the CW upside down.
posted by PoliPundit at 4:37 AM Link to this post | Comments

[Beacho]

42. WTF?

"Dean Attracts People With Low Self Esteem Who need to be told "They Have The Power"

and the election isn't about Dean "it's about them"."


What a load of crap. Whatever institution gave you your psych degree, I suggest that you ask for your money back.


That has to be one of the dumbest things I've read online in a long time.

[ibegurpard]

45. Stick around

You'll hear a lot more than that. If you just tuned in today you missed a whole truckload of it.

[Beacho]

46. I accept the usual friendly snipes

But that's the first 'Krauthammer technique' post I've seen yet. It was complete and utter bullshit

[slinkerwink]

47. and that's the kind of stuff that she posts

:shrug:

[Julien Sorel]

53. Gee, calling it a 'load of crap' doesn't refute it.

It certainly makes sense that a bunch of people who go wild after being told 'you have the power' are likely dealing with some kind of issues on one level or another; I wonder why you don't even try a counter-argument.

[Beacho]

54. Because you need an argument to refute

"It certainly makes sense that a bunch of people who go wild after being told 'you have the power' are likely dealing with some kind of issues on one level or another; I wonder why you don't even try a counter-argument."


Show me some evidence besides 'cuz I say so' and then I'll present it, or concede the point if you can convince me.


Your remarks are wholly without merit or support, and have no relevance whatsoever.


Then you'll get a discussion.

[Julien Sorel]

63. You just did the same thing. But I'll humor you.

Statement: People who respond to being told 'You have the power' are reacting to an underlying pathology that that statement appeals to. It might be anger, it might be a feeling of helplessness, it might be low self-esteem -- probably, it's a combination of those, as low self-esteem frequently leads to feelings of anger and helplessness. At any rate, that's my statement, and I think it's essentially true, by the way. Saying 'it's a bunch of crap' isn't an argument, and in fact, sounds a lot like protesting too much.

So tell me, how many normal people do you know who go apeshit when they are told 'You have the power?' Frankly, it reminds me of Jim Bakker and the 700 club or whatever it was. Those people also responded to demagogic speeches promising them 'empowerment' by pledging money to a stranger.

[ibegurpard]

64. Unless you can find me a description in a psychiatric manual

for the pathology you describe then it is nothing more than your opinion and therefore cannot be refuted one way or another. I will simply say that I disagree.

[Julien Sorel]

69. So we go from 'wholly without merit,' and 'full of crap,'

to a subdued 'we disagree.'

Deanites, Deanites, Deanites. If it isn't a cult, it's a hell of an opportunity being wasted.

[ibegurpard]

72. And just what sort of of pathology does that fit?

Pray tell?

[eileen_d]

71. Well, in the interest of equal time...

"OMFG... spare me the psychoanalysis!" Again!

As someone with mental health issues I resent the amateur practice of psychiatry on this board! ;)

[quaker bill]

52. I think they have changed their minds

I have no problem with the notion that Rove wanted to take on Dean early on. He had visions of McGovern and Dukakis floating in his head. I think they assumed that they could marginalize Dean and paint him up as an out of touch northeastern liberal.

They are now watching large and growing numbers of committed people contribute and volunteer for Dean. I believe that Dean is showing strength as a candidate that Rove and Ed Gillespie did not expect, especially this far in advance of the election.

They may still be convinced that they can beat Dean, but I expect it is at least beginning to look like it will be some hard work. Given their preference for the weakest possible democratic candidate, they would probably now prefer someone else

[hooraydems]

55. They're afraid alright...

Dean speaks the truth..and they're frightened. He knows that we can't win Iraq without help...That the tax cuts for the rich don't help the economy.

[slinkerwink]

56. welcome to DU!!!!

:hi:

[littlejoe]

57. I don't really

give a damn what the f'in repukes want. I care about what we want, and I see too many divisions within our own party that we had better start addressing. We are going through an identity crisis. We don't know what we want to be. It is hard for us to define ourselves as something very distinct from the repukes. We also suffer fron a decided lack of leadership. I am repulsed when I think of who is leading our party in Washington. They should be tarred and feathered, and then drawn and quartered. John Dean and Dennis Kucinich are the only two democrats that show any backbone at all. We need to keep standing and screaming at the top of our lungs. The democrats are going to have to get mad-dog mean to fight Bush this time around, because we all know that he will pull out his big bag of dirty tricks and his three hundred million dollar war chest to get re-selected.

[arewethereyet]

58. well maybe you're right

Clark would be an even easier sitting duck but I think they will be happy with either one

[Beacho]

61. littlejoe

you da man! As I've said, for at least four post, what you said is right on target.


Worrying about what Rove&Co. are worried/not worried about, what the GOP wants/doesn't want, is like Ike taking cues from the German High Command about what to do about war in Europe.


Screw them, they're the Huns that need to be crushed, and we need a machine to run through them like shit through a goose.


These pieces of sheit are trying to roll back one hundred years of progress, and we are standing between them and there goal.


Our goal is to DEFEND IT! NO IFs, NO ANDs, NO BUTS!!!

(just for the record, I have not yet declared(officially) for a candidate)

[seventhson]

62. Republicans want Clark because ...

they know Bush will lose and they want another Republican in the white house.

[Beacho]

67. That was a low blow too

I know I've responded to Dean bashing, which may lead people to believe that I'm a Dean supporter


But calling Clark a republican is just as much sheit and serves to aid and abet the enemy.

Clark has his plusses and his minuses, but that was uncalled for