Was Florida A Glimpse Of What Kerry Will Look Like In Smaller Debates?

[DrFunkenstein]

It's hard to really stand out with 8 other peoples standing on the stage with you, but in smaller groups the qualitative differences become much more apparent. Sharpton may win a contest of zingers, and Dean may "not lose" by letting a question go past him, but how will the candidates appear in a format with time for, you know, time to say something and actual interaction?

Although I really think that candidates with NO shot of winning should drop out, I would be more than happy with breaking the debates into groups to be decided at random. I think the lottery aspect would interest more viewership, and people would get a chance to see what the candidates are really like. And I know for political junkies like us, the thought of 3 one-hour debates of 3 candidates, or 2 one-hour debates between groups of 4 and 5 would be manna from heaven.

I truly in my heart believe that Kerry could take any of 'em in a real head-to-head. Deanies seem reluctant to mess with a good thing (fear?), but I know Clarkies and Kucinichies would jump at the chance. Why isn't there a push for this?

I think we are all made a laughingstock by the cattle-call debates, and it doesn't adequately prepare us for the general election. I think my candidate has the mettle to take on any comers. Can you say the same about your own?

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Kerry as Frank Sinatra?

[Jerseycoa]

1. I can

say it about mine and yours.

"...mettle to take on any comers."

[MuseRider]

2. I have been

watching the re runs and I think Kerry looks and sounds great. I like him, disagreed with some of his votes but I think he has explained that. I hope this is a sign of what is to come from him.

[IndianaGreen]

3. All of the candidates shone in smaller groups

The debates suck! There is only enough time for a candidate to get a knockout punch or a quotable punch line for a TV sound bite.

The good thing about the Florida convention is that the small groups of candidates had enough time to give a full answer to questions on complex issues, and to expand on their views, without having some shithead moderator cut them off after one minute.

I can't imagine Dean giving the answer to the question on the Middle East conflict in the amount of time in the debates.

All of the candidates shone in smaller groups. It wasn't because they were in a small group. It was because they were given ample opportunity to answer the questions from the Florida delegates.

One thing about those Florida delegates: their questions showed that they are an intelligent and knowledgeable group of voters (obviously they don't watch Faux).

Regardless of who your candidate is, they all performed wonderfully and distinguished themselves. These are not the 9 dwarfs. They are far better than the idiot in the White House.

[FXDS]

4. Kerry

Rocks in Florida!

[oasis]

5. Kerry was sizzling hot. He know's his stuff.

[Eric J in MN]

6. I agree. Randomly have 4 or 5 in each debate and give them 2 minutes

I agree. Randomly have 4 or 5 in each debate and give them 2 minutes instead of 1 minute to answer questions.

[adadem]

7. Absolutely agree

The format of the past debates was a joke...got us nowhere. The DNC, which is doing a horrid job IMHO organizing this election cycle, should have done what was mentioned before....small groups of candidates then rotated who debated each other.

Kerry rocked in FL, Dean was lukewarm...showed some of his flaws (though his robots certainly didn't see that), Clark, my second choice, didn't get me "out of my chair" today. Edwards was ok as was Kucinich.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Kerry would have to duck his head to get into a smaller debate

:) Back on topic- Kerry certainly rocks in the right settings. Hopefully he can benefit from more focus in the coming weeks.

[UTUSN]

9. Having Each Perform in Their Own Space

gives better comparison than the herd format with all of them standing next to one another, paradoxically.

(KERRY supporter here), besides KERRY's command of issues and language, EDWARDS *leapt out* with his looseness and humor. If his whole thing was to dip in this time in preparation for future runs, well, he's just about ready NOW. The problem is that he's leaving as senator, so what's he going to fill the resume with in the meantime.

[DrFunkenstein]

10. I'm Hoping VP

Edwards is a great guy that just needs to sit in the oven a little longer. I have no doubt that he will someday be President.

[sistersofmercy]

12. Edwards would be a perfect VP

for Kerry, IMO.

[DrFunkenstein]

16. That's What I'm Thinking - Kerry/Edwards

Kerry/Clark might make a better election ticket, but I think that Kerry matches up better with Edwards for a 4 year stretch.

[sistersofmercy]

39. Also...

I think the first to pair with the best VP will manage to blow the others out of the water.

[adadem]

29. Did anyone see

at the end of the Jeff-Jack event in Iowa a couple of weeks ago that Kerry and Edwards joined hands and raised them (at the end of the speeches) and then it hit me....what a team!

[sistersofmercy]

42. No but I'll...

take your word for it! Yep, what a team!

[realFedUp]

11. Did Kerry say he voted for the Medicare bill?

I just flipped in to parts of the Florida
Dem convention, but thought I heard him
say he voted against the Medicare bill.
He skipped that vote as I recall...

not a flamebait, just looking for the truth.

[jpgray]

13. The deal was twenty senators broke Dem ranks

So it ended up being 70-odd for, and there was no point any longer in filibuster threats--they couldn't be backed up with action, the bill would be passed. So once that happened, I believe all three campaigning senators were absent for the vote. Someone come and correct me if I'm wrong, I remember seeing an article stating that this was the case--I believe all three were there and debated against the bill, but still it was passed.

And I'm furious about the bill, if you want to know. :)

[DrFunkenstein]

14. He Did And No One Blinked

Because HE DID VOTE for the measures that mattered. I know that's alot of cockroach stuff about cloture and all, but the point is that Kerry was there when it counted.

[realFedUp]

17. but Kerry didn't vote on the Medicare bill

I don't care if the explanation was that
they saw Dems voting for it and didn't need
to cast their votes.

Kerry didn't vote on the Medicare bill
and yesterday, if I heard correctly, he
said he voted against it.

Was this the truth or a lie?

[coralrf]

18. There was more than one vote

read the history..or buy the spin its your choice.

[realFedUp]

20. Voting on a cloture and voting on the actual bill

are two separate things. I don't think I am the
one confused on this. If Kerry said he voted for
the cloture yesterday...fine. What he said was
he voted against the Medicare bill. He didn't
vote on it at all.

Now I'm not the one spinning here.

[realFedUp]

22. Was this discussed in yesterday's threads?

Can't believe if Kerry lied about voting
against the Medicare bill it wasn't...
anyone have a link to that thread?

[jpgray]

26. He voted against it, by voting against the cloture

So how did he lie, exactly? Without a filibuster, there was nothing to be done.

[realFedUp]

27. another way to spin it....

He didn't actually vote against the Medicare bill...
he skipped the vote. He SAID yesterday that he
voted against the Medicare bill. He didn't. He voted
against cloture. They are two different things
if I understand correctly.

You guys can spin this any way you want to...but
he didn't vote against the Medicare bill.

[jpgray]

28. No, this is just splitting hairs

If you want to say Kerry is lying, you have to have a fundamental or selective ignorance of the way Congress works and the way bills get passed. He voted the one time his vote made any difference, and that was against the cloture. The cloture was for stopping the filibuster. The filibuster was to stop the Medicare bill. By simple logic he fought and voted against the Medicare bill. If he said "at the specific session where the Medicare bill was voted on, not including any previous efforts to forestall it, I voted against it" then you might have something. It seems to me a silly thing to focus on, when there isn't much meat to it. Was the cloture vote FOR the Medicare bill? I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make.

[realFedUp]

30. Nothing hair splitting about it.

Why can't you just say he didn't vote on the Medicare
bill?

Voting against a cloture vote to stop a filibuster
isn't voting on the bill itself.

Let's be honest here at least.

[realFedUp]

31. Kerry lied

to that audience in Florida. He didn't vote on the Medicare
bill and thus didn't vote against the Medicare bill...
I don't care how many ways you want to spin this one.

I like Kerry, but some of his stretching of the truth
lately is making me feel that I can't trust him.

[jpgray]

33. I think you're trying to see something that isn't there

Kerry lied about some polls recently, post something about that.

[adadem]

34. More Deanibot spin

Kerry came back to vote...when it was clear the measure was to pass and he could not make a difference he left. He voted the important votes in the Medicare bill....you're sounding like the republicans in reference to Gore and his initiative/inventing the internet. Spin, spin, spin.

I've had it with Deanibots coming to events at surrounding folks who are supporting other candidates or folks who are undecided. They tried to surround me the other night and convince me how bad Kerry is. What is with these people....it wasn't like this in the beginning when I attended a Dean Meet Up to get more info...back when I was undecided. They were actually quite friendly even though we ended up disagreeing on the issues.

[realFedUp]

37. I am not a Deanibot

and I really resent that by pointing out the truth
that Kerry didn't vote on the Medicare bill, I get
smeared.

This isn't helping your case or your candidate's
in my eyes. I don't smear other candidates because
in the end we are all Dems and will rally behind
the nominee but calling other posters names isn't
helping good feelings.

[adadem]

40. Then don't post like one

I will stand up for a senator who has worked tirelessly. Sorry you don't like the moniker but that's what the Deanies do, and you have done here...circle and slam, circle and spin. It's making undecided voters and those who support any other than Dean to despise the man. The carriers of the Dean message are dividing the Dems and they are behaving like robots at Dem events ganging up on non-supporters in groups of three or four to repeat the Dean message.
BTW, am supporting three candidates and will defend each with the same vigor of the Deanies.

[realFedUp]

41. As I stated before

Calling Dean supporters names doesn't advance
your argument. I don't circle and spin any candidate...
I ask for the truth. Everyone here wants to advance
his or her candidate but doing it by calling various
supporters names isn't honest or helpful.

[jpgray]

32. He did not vote on the Medicare bill

I just think it's silliness to yell "LIAR" when he says "I voted against it". For all intents and purposes, he did. Voting for the filibuster is a vote against the Medicare bill. Pretty simple to me.

edit: clarity

[realFedUp]

35. For all intents and purposes...he lied

He did not vote against the Medicare bill
and he said he did. Now if he had said he voted
against cloture to stop the filibuster, I would
say he did exactly that.

Just admit he made an error in front of that
audience.

[jpgray]

36. Okay, you win

;-)

[realFedUp]

38. gads....took you long enough

:-)

I hope we all win next November.

[IndianaGreen]

19. Kerry missed the vote on the Medicare bill

Kerry did vote with Ted Kennedy against the cloture motion, to end filibuster of the GOP bill.

The issue regarding the Medicare vote is that members of Congress were offered bribes to vote for the bill. Where is an independent counsel when we need him.her?

[madfloridian]

24. No, he said he voted against it, got applause.

I thought he skipped it.

[DemNoir]

15. I was impressed also

Kerry is just so ready to be president its ridiculous

[coralrf]

21. Kerry on Medicrap...

"But after the extraordinary House vote, which GOP leaders held open for nearly three hours while they pursued Republican holdouts, Massachusetts Democratic Sens. Edward M. Kennedy and John Kerry promised a filibuster."

http://www.montanaforum.com/rednews/2003/11/23/build/health/
us-medicare.php?nnn=3

"But after the extraordinary House vote, which GOP leaders held open for nearly three hours while they pursued Republican holdouts, Massachusetts Democratic Sens. Edward Kennedy and John Kerry promised a filibuster.'

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1123medicare23.html

ETC..there were many Democratic caucuses in which Kerry elected for filibuster against Daschle’s wishes. This is what Kerry is saying and DU'ers jump on Rove's spin.

Sad. Attempting to parse words into lies is a hall mark GOP trick. Don’t do it Dems..please don’t do that crap.

[madfloridian]

25. To seniors it is not crap at all.

It is their life.

[last1standing]

23. In another thread, you just said we should not cast aspersions.

But then here you are suggesting "Deanies" are afraid of the others candidates and that Dean doesn't lose because he lets the questions pass him by.

I won't attack your candidate if you don't attack mine.

Fair?