Kerry Favors A Holland-Style "Hands Off" Approach To Pot

[DrFunkenstein]

You have talked in the past of smoking pot when you returned from Vietnam. What do you think of the way the pot laws are prosecuted today?

We have never had a legitimate War on Drugs in the United States, ever, and we won't until we have treatment on demand for addiction and until you have full drug education in our schools. The mandatory-minimum-sentencing structure of our country is funneling people into jail who have no business being there.

And every year, the number of people arrested for marijuana offenses goes up.

I've met plenty of people in my lifetime who've used marijuana and who I would not qualify as serious addicts -- who use about the same amount as some people drink beer or wine or have a cocktail. I don't get too excited by any of that.

Would you favor decriminalization?

No, not quite. What we did in the prosecutor's office was have a sort of unspoken approach to marijuana that was almost effectively decriminalization. We just didn't bother with small-time use. It doesn't rise to the level of nuisance, even. And what we were after was people dealing with heroin and destroying lives, and people who were killing people. That's where you need to focus.

http://www.rollingstone.com/features/nationalaffairs/featuregen.asp?pid=2454

<>

In Holland, smoking pot is still illegal, but there is an official blind eye turned to it. This would seem a perfect solution for defusing conservatives that would freak out (with middle America) over immediate de-criminalization.

----------------------------------------------------

Here is something I found from a quick Google search:

MacCoun warns against using the experience of the drug-decriminalization states to make arguments for outright marijuana legalization or for decriminalizing harder drugs.

His research shows that marijuana use didn't increase much in the 1970s in the Netherlands when the Dutch police stopped enforcing laws against marijuana possession. But the government began allowing pot to be sold openly at coffee shops in the 1980s, and marijuana use almost tripled among 18- t0 20-year-olds by 1996, his studies found.

The Dutch experience suggests that not throwing drug users in jail is different - and has much less impact - than actually allowing commercial access to marijuana, MacCoun said.

"The Dutch have made a choice," MacCoun said in his congressional testimony. "Less black market activity at the retail level and less police intrusiveness in ordinary life in exchange for higher levels of marijuana use."

Advocates of marijuana legalization also cite studies from Holland showing that overall, marijuana use in Holland remains below that in the United States and that adolescent marijuana use is nearly twice as high in America compared to the Netherlands - with Dutch per-capita spending on drug-related law enforcement well below that in the United States.

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99/n975/a09.html

<>

[LoZoccolo]

1. I'm thinking of a song Janis Joplin used to sing.

The one that goes freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose...

[Pastiche423]

74. Me and Bobby McGee

[sistersofmercy]

79. Love that song! n/t

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. That Baltimore prosecutor is another victim in the 'WOD'

We don't hear much about Kerry's experience as an ADA, but it's easy to overlook the fact he was a prosecutor. He definitely has a great perspective on an appropriate legal disposition towards marijuana use.

[dsc]

12. We know no such thing

Unless you have read some update that you didn't post you have no clue what kind of criminal got him. The case he was working on even his own office said had nothing to do with it. He prosecuted all kinds of criminals. Why assume that drug criminals did this?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

13. "US prosecutor murdered on eve of rap star's drug trial"

Why would I think his murder had anything to do with drugs?

[dsc]

16. Did you even read your own link?

On Wednesday, Mr Luna and the men's lawyers had negotiated throughout the afternoon to reach agreement on a plea bargain. The two men pleaded guilty at the US district court in Baltimore on Thursday lunchtime, about seven hours after Mr Luna's body was found. The charges against Smith carry up to 25 years in prison, and those against Poindexter up to 60 years.

The authorities have as yet not publicly linked Mr Luna's death with the case he was involved in. Smith and Poindexter were in custody when the lawyer went missing. Poindexter's lawyer, Arcangelo Tuminelli, said his client and Smith had both wanted the case settled. "These two defendants had every incentive to want to see Johnathan Luna show up here today," he said. The stylishly dressed Mr Luna, who was black, was considered a champion of the disadvantaged and often wrote letters to newspaper editors on behalf of minorities and the poor. In 1991, he wrote a letter to the editor of The New York Times, saying he was offended at the title of a recent series of articles on the Mott Haven section of the south Bronx where he grew up. The series was titled Life at the Bottom.

end of quote.

This agrees with every report that I read. The two people had agreed to a plea bargain and wanted the case settled. You don't kill prosecutors on the day of settling your case. Again, did you even read this when you posted this link?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

18. and without knowing the details of the plea

we don't know who else might have been (unwillingly) implicated, not to mention other cases (drug related) he probably was involved in.

[dsc]

20. Killing the prosecutor does no good that I can see

for any current case. Revenge is likely the motive and the reports indicate he prosecuted all kinds of criminals. I am by no means saying it wasn't drug related, it may well have been. But I am saying, and stand behind, the idea that we have no idea if it was or wasn't.

[virtualobserver]

3. I do wish that he had taken it one step further.

but I wish that of all the candidates.

Marijuana prohibition is functioning in much the same way that alcohol prohibition did . It has created this giant underground (untaxed) economy that corrupts governmental entities, and has put an enormous number of non-violent people in prison, which is a huge drain on our resources as is the "Drug War" itself.

[wtmusic]

4. So what's the message here?

We're going to have a law, then not enforce it *nod nod, wink wink*.

That's just silly.

[DrFunkenstein]

5. How Do You Feel About Holland?

Or the research I presented?

It says that de-criminalization doesn't work nearly as effectively as non-enforcement.

[wtmusic]

9. Ain't gonna *ever* get me to support a lie

and that's what non-enforcement is, no matter how you slice it.

It not only makes that law a joke but it removes credibility from the laws that do need to be enforced.

Maybe they can live with the lie in Holland. We shouldn't here.

[DemExpat]

72. It's true.... some studies show

that this has undermined respect for the law in general, and encourages disregarding laws in other areas as well....

Add to this the pressure Holland now has to get their laws more in line with EU laws, and I'm afraid Holland's "blind eye" policy is going to come to an end.

DemEx

[babzilla]

19. Amsterdam was great

I had a blast the last time I visited. Fortunately for them they don't have a John Ashcroft to spoil all the fun. The non-enforcement thing doesn't apply here in the states.

Ask the medical marijuana co-ops that have been busted by the feds how non-enforcement is working for them.

Ask Tommy Chong how he feels about "almost effectively decriminalization" or "unspoken" approaches.

Seattle voters just passed an initiative that says that marijuana prosecutions should be the lowest priority for the police department.

Somehow I don't think that that is going to make much difference in prosecutions, but it sure sounds cool and that's what's important, right? Wow we're just like Holland now dude, awesome!

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. It shows Kerry's extremely rational, logical, and understands "balance"

and specifically on this subject- he has an attitude and opinion which a hell of a lot of people share.

[wtmusic]

11. It shows Kerry is totally out to lunch

Maybe we should have a second *real* Constitution to tell us which laws of the *first* Constitution should be enforced. Are we making sense yet?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

14. So when speeding in a 55 MPH zone

do the cops pull you over for doing 56 MPH or 76? Does that help?

[wtmusic]

15. No, it doesn't

It's one thing to do it as a DA, it's another to state it as a policy maker.

He just wants to take that greasy middle ground where he doesn't have to commit. This is not leadership.

[WillyBrandt]

6. Good on Kerry!

He'd make a great President. He's my #2.

I lurch between pity and total awe of the guy.

[Eloriel]

7. You're posting this as a GOOD thing?

Amazing.

And people try to slam Dean on electability, esp. in the South. Dream on.

Eloriel

[oasis]

10. Hemp is a good farm crop. Imagine the possiblities.

[Hep]

29. Hemp isn't pot

Common myth is that pot and hemp are the same thing. They're not.

[oasis]

67. If hemp is not pot then marijuana is not pot. Hemp is marijuana.

[DrFunkenstein]

22. We Talk Policy, You Talk Process

Typical.

[deminflorida]

17. Looks like Kerry is trying to pull some of those younger Dean....

activists over to his side in N.H. If it works, or if he finds the right thing that will work, then he and Dean cut each others throat in that state and Clark could even possibly win it. Good thing all this shit is playing out during the primaries or our asses are toast in the national election.

[sistersofmercy]

21. All the more reason to support Kerry, his view on the subject is

nearly identical to mine.

[Hep]

33. You think smoking pot

shouldn't be decriminalized? What's so criminal about smoking pot in your opinion?

[sistersofmercy]

51. The approach to doing it needs to be sensible, meaning gradual.

Get it?!

[Hep]

53. GRadual

So we should put fewer and fewer people in jail until there are none. Ummm, OK.

[sistersofmercy]

63. Reference posts 45 and 54

:evilgrin:

[Hep]

23. Good for Kerry

Now if we can only get him out of the damn radio shack.

On edit, NOT good for kerry. he wants it illegal but ignored? What a politically expedient yet completely ball-less position.

[Eloriel]

25. Yeah, that ws pretty much my take

"I'll have a little of each, please."

Eloriel

[Hep]

27. Kinda like his IWR vote and the 350 M budget amendment

I'll do the bare minimum to impress the left while trying not to offend those on the right whose votes I'm going to need.

[DrFunkenstein]

31. You Are Truly A Principled Person

If Dean had said this - a radical shift in the direction of the war on drugs - it would be likened to walking on water.

[Hep]

32. Wow, are you GOD?

You must be! IF it were Dean, I'd shake my head and wonder why the hell he would have to be such a pussy.

But then, Dean doesn't have to grasp for straws.

[JohnKleeb]

34. hes right in this statement

"We have never had a legitimate War on Drugs in the United States, ever,"
I prefer Kucinich's views on the drug wars most but Kerry doesnt seem to me what I call a drug warrior like Clinton was, and I do like Clinton keep in mind, but he was without a doubt a drug warrior.

[Hep]

36. I agree

Kerry IS right about that.

But he's not saying anything new, and he's not saying he will end the drug war. Yeah, fewer people will be in prison, but our country will continue to spend insane amounts of money in the drug war.

[JohnKleeb]

37. Then why are we nitpicking here on Kerry, it may not be perfect but its

something, and overall decent message.
Wouldnt saying you're gonna end the drug war make you unelectable :D? hehe, my own candiate has proably the most leanant views on drug use. Now I agree its nothing radical but he is addressing it, and less people outta be in prison to begin with. Thats one of the biggest problems with the drug war other than the spending.

[Hep]

39. This s where I disagree

and I pointed it out in my post. Turning a blind eye to drug end users may keep SOME out of jail, but it won't be a nick in the war on people who use drugs. It's a pantywaste position. Even worse that he recognizes that the war on drugs is wrong, but he won't do anything about it.

Kucinich is the man on this issue. If it were anything resembling an important issue to me, I'd care more.

The biggest problem is NOT people going to jail. That's a state issue anyway. The laws if you get busted for possession in TX are different from NC. In TX you can get busted with a certain amount and get a citation. In many states, cops already turn a blind eye to it.

[JohnKleeb]

41. Of course thats why I support him

I have my reasons to support Kucinich. If you agree with him on this, why not give him your support, he may supposely be unelectable, but no one said it wasnt worth it to try.

[Hep]

45. Don't get me started

Decriminalization brings about a whole new set of problems.

But the reason why this doesn't make me suppotr Kucinich is that this issue is very low on my totem poll of political issues.

[JohnKleeb]

49. Actually I have my other reasons for supporting Kucinich

You're confusing me, you dont want decriminalization which I am for, yet youre jumping on Kerry for being against it. :shrug: why?
I agree Kerry could have done better, but remember Canada or maybe it was Britain just allowed decriminalization or legalization of having a certain amount of pot on you, I think people being in jail is a big part of the problem, have you ever heard of the Rockefeller laws in NY, those are just flat out awful. Kerry isnt terrific on this but hes solid, and I can see that.

[Hep]

54. It's this

You're confusing me, you dont want decriminalization which I am for, yet youre jumping on Kerry for being against it. :shrug: why?

I think I misspoke. I want decriminalization. That's a whole nother thread. I'm just saying that decriminalization is a long and windy road.

I don't think Kerry is solid. I don't think his words MEAN anything.

[JohnKleeb]

56. ok

You and I now know Kerry's views on drugs, but see my Q below, I think its a valid one.
Serious, I dont mean to bait ya, but I think Kerry though it could be better isnt being so bad. Tell me what your candiate is going to do different on drugs than Senator John Kerry (D) Masschuetts.

[sistersofmercy]

59. "decriminalization is a long and windy road." So I take that to mean

you agree with the gradual implementation?

[sistersofmercy]

57. "Decrimalization brings about a whole new set of problems." And

that is why it needs to be gradual!

[DrFunkenstein]

38. Like When Dean Wouldn't Answer Whether Or Not He Smoked

Until he saw that the other candidates had said so?

-------------------

COOPER: Probably a predictable question just got asked. It is an e-mail from a viewer: 'Which of you are ready to admit to having used marijuana in the past?'

And they want us to go around and ask each of you.

Governor Dean?

DEAN: We'll all keep our hands down on this one.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: John -- Senator Kerry? Yes or no?

KERRY: Yes.

(APPLAUSE)

COOPER: Congressman Kucinich, yes or no?

(APPLAUSE)

KUCINICH: No, but I think it ought to be decriminalized.

(APPLAUSE)

COOPER: Reverend Sharpton?

SHARPTON: I grew up in the church. We didn't believe in that.

COOPER: OK. Senator Edwards?

EDWARDS: Yes.

(APPLAUSE)

COOPER: Senator Lieberman?

(APPLAUSE)

LIEBERMAN: Well, you know, I have a reputation for giving unpopular answers in Democratic debates. I never used marijuana, sorry.

COOPER: General Clark?

CLARK: Never used it.

COOPER: Ambassador Braun?

MOSELEY BRAUN: I'm not going to answer.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

COOPER: And Governor Dean?

DEAN: Yes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A64721-2003Nov4?language=printer

While I try to avoid misogynistic terms like "pussy," if it were ever appropriate, this might be the time.

[Hep]

40. Are you ESL? Just out of curiosity

Cooper skipped him after he made a joke. You're going to have to doctor this one, Funk, if you wanna actually make a point.

[DrFunkenstein]

44. The Transcript Is Right There

Dean dodged the issue like a draft.

[Hep]

46. No he didn't

You see things through your little anti Dean shades. it's cool. It's not like we don't know that.

[Scott Lee]

70. Shades of Clinton bashing!

"Did you inhale?"

[sistersofmercy]

71. What? Did you just pull that response out of your ear?

or <insert other orifice>? Hues of what? Silly Wabbit! :P

[DrFunkenstein]

77. That Was Pretty Tortured

Ps - That is the first time I ever heard of anyone inserting an orifice! I'm not sure of the logistics, but it was pretty funny anyhow!

[Monte Carlo]

35. One miracle at a time, please.

There still is a great deal of superstition and hysteria over weed in this country. Suddenly becoming more tolerant of weed than Canada would be a really hard sell to the public. Inertia takes time to overcome.

[Hep]

42. It's not an issue that I care about.

But if he's going to stick his neck out far enough to say recreational use should be ignored, he should stick it out all the way.

This isn't even in my top ten list of issues. The thing that it is indicative of is how Kerry makes decisions.

[DrFunkenstein]

24. The Crucial Line People Seem To Miss

"The Dutch experience suggests that not throwing drug users in jail is different - and has much less impact - than actually allowing commercial access to marijuana, MacCoun said."

But then again, I have a feeling that some of these people would be bowing from the ankles if Dean had said it.

[Hep]

28. It'a an interesting quote

commercial access. You mean like buying it in coffee houses?

[JohnKleeb]

30. I know a certain DUer who is in Holland who could be doing that as we spea

:evilgrin:

[babzilla]

48. Feds trump state laws in this country

Even in states where medical marijuana is legal the DEA under Ashcroft's orders will continue the War on Drugs irregardless of local non-enforcement policies.

US District Judge Jeremy Fogel in San Jose, California, dismissed a lawsuit against the federal government filed by the city and county of Santa Cruz and a raided medical marijuana dispensary, Wo/Men's Access to Medical Marijuana (http://www.wamm.org) on August 27. But Fogel also expressed sympathy for the plaintiffs and left them an opening to re-file the suit.

snip

But despite his sympathies and the express will of California voters, "the legislative and executive branches of the federal government have a different view, and in a federal system that view is controlling unless the federal government is acting in excess of its constitutional powers." Plaintiffs had not made such a showing, Fogel ruled, but left open a new hearing if they could make such a showing.

http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/301/wamm.shtml

[DrFunkenstein]

52. Just Like Oregon's "Death With Dignity"

Feds have a right to impose themselves upon local laws, for better or worse. In this case, better.

[babzilla]

58. therefore this approach would seem an imperfect solution

non-enforcement won't work in this country like it does in Holland.

Regarding Oregon's Death with Dignity, when you say "in this case, better" are you saying that it should be illegal for people to decide for themselves how they want to die? Do you believe that the federal government has a right to intrude upon an individual decision to determine for themselves the manner of their death? Do you believe that laws against suicide are effective as a deterrant?

[DrFunkenstein]

60. Sorry, I Meant The Non-Enforcement, Not Death With Dignity

I was very pissed off about Oregon. I have a strong libertarian streak when it comes to what consenting adults can do with their own bodies (i.e. sex, drugs, and death).

Other libertarian views chafe me, though. I believe in gun control and public smoking laws because they affect non-consenting people's bodies.

[babzilla]

65. thanks for clarifying

I'm glad we are in agreement on consenting adults and their bodies.

"In Holland, smoking pot is still illegal, but there is an official blind eye turned to it. This would seem a perfect solution for defusing conservatives that would freak out (with middle America) over immediate de-criminalization."

So you are saying that Kerry as president would direct the DEA to officially turn a blind eye to marijuana prosecutions? I don't see how that would defuse a pseudo-conservative freak out, unless of course he does it in an "unspoken" manner.

Official blind-eye policies, what a way to go. No pseudo-conservatives have been hurt in the making of this policy.
Nuance-alicious!

[JohnKleeb]

26. Its not the best one of all the candiates but it sure aint bad

At least he doesnt like the way the drug war is being handled, that makes him a lot different than Clinton was, and I do like and respect Clinton, but I wont deny he was a drug warrior ala cold warrior of the cold war era. Good for Kerry, he at least realizes this "We have never had a legitimate War on Drugs in the United States, ever,", I dont know about y'all but hes right here. BTW maybe its not like how it is in Holland for Kerry but Kerry is no drug warrior which is great, I hate the drug war a lot. Non user here for more sensible laws.

[NNN0LHI]

43. This is good. Actually very good

Kerry is beginning to impress me.

Don

[jpgray]

47. That's what I thought

One of the better positions on MJ and the Drug war I've read from a major candidate. Apparently I'm missing something?

[RainDog]

50. This is a "grassroots" issue...

...there is a group in this country who uses this issue and who would go ballistic if rational thought applied to mj, as opposed to things like crack...which got Noelle Bush the mandatory minimum of 10 days on her second, at least, offense..oh, excuse me, she's Jeb's daughter...she's not a drug user, she's a..drug user from a rich and connected family, and so instead of a life sentence, confiscation of her family's property, or explusion of her family from govt owned housing...she got ten days.

Or that Rush guy, who's not a drug user, he's a rich and connected right-wing radio personality, so he's different than someone who can't get his or her maid to procure drugs...

I've just finished reading the section on mj in Reefer Madness, and I would encourage everyone to read this book. As Schlosser says, it will take "grassroots" reform to bring sanity to this issue via the ballot box.

If you support sane policy toward mj, and the currently insane application of mandatory minimums, and all the other b.s. connected to this issue, like I do, why don't we do something positive, other than post on this forum, and work, each of us in our own states and communities, toward ending this stupid prohibition...and especially those of us who are not currently smoking but know from past experience that the laws concerning mj have NOTHING to do with reality.

So, why don't those of us on this board do something with our collective power and find out ways we can each stop the madness?

Here are some excerpts from Schlosser's fine book about this issue. fwiw, this interests me so much because a guy featured in this book got a life sentence in Leavenworth and was locked up with seriously dangerous criminals because he refused to barter by turning in people which were basically unconnected to his case anyway, because he intro'd two people to each other.

that was the extent of his crime and he was locked away with murderers and serial rapists. the people who actually profited and grew and sold the mj all got lighter sentences because they gave up people to save their own butts.

examples of Reefer Madness from Schlosser's book-

Newt Gingrich introduced a bill to legalize medicinal use of m. in 1981. As speaker of the house in 1996, he sponsored legislation which sought a life sentence or death penalty for anyone who brought more than 2 oz of m. into the U.S.

Congressman Dan Burton intro'd leg. requiring the death penalty for m. dealers in 1990. In 94, his son was arrested for taking approx 8 lbs of m. from Texas to Indiana. While awaiting trial, Dan Burton's son was arrested for growing 30 m. plants in his apt. Police found a shotgun, too. Under federal law Burton's son was looking at five years mandatory minimum for the gun, plus as many as 3 yrs for the m. under state law.

...federal charges were never filed against Dan Burton's son.
Congressman Randy Cunningham, in 96, attacked Clinton for being soft on crime and cavalier toward drug use. Four months later, Cunningham's son was arrested for helping to transport 400 lbs of m. across state lines.

Cunningham's son confessed to being part of a smuggling ring which transported as much as 30 thousand lbs of m. across the U.S. (a crime which can lead to life w/o parole).

Cunningham pleaded for his son because he had a good heart and hadn't been in trouble before. The son got 2.5 years...but could have gotten a shorter sentence..except that he tested positive for cocaine three times while out on bail.

Conneticut federal prosecutor Leslie Ohta seized the house of an eighty year old couple whose grandson had drugs in their house...she claimed they should have known.

Not so long after, her 18 year old son was arrested for selling LSD from her car, and was alleged to have sold m. from her home. Neither her car nor her home were seized.

...on the other hand, there is no study which shows that moderate use of m. is any more harmful that moderate use of alcohol.

Clinton, imo, sold out this country over the whole issue of mj. It's too bad, because, as he saw, when a liberal tries to pander to the right wing, all they get is a great big f.u. in response. sigh. when will they ever learn???

[DrFunkenstein]

62. Listen Here To Schlosser's Interview With Leonard Lopate

Leonard Lopate is my personal God. I listen to him everyday at lunch give the most fascinating interviews day after day. And, quite honestly, I am in love with the sound of his voice. If you don't get his NYC-based show, it is archived on the net at www.wnyc.org.

Here is his interview with Schlosser:

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/episodes/05082003

[RainDog]

68. what do you need to use to hear the link?

I couldn't get it to open, tho I have quicktime and realplayer.

It doesn't say on the site, as far as I can see, what sort of helper you need for the link.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. He must be after the Limbaugh vote.

or, the Toke and Vote.

Anybody, who would base their vote on this, needs to cut down on the drugs.

[DrFunkenstein]

61. I Don't Think Anyone Here Is Making It A One-Issue Issue

This is DU, not High Times.

[Nile]

64. I can live with that.

Legalize the entire hemp industry.

[DrFunkenstein]

78. It Is Ridiculous If There Is No THC In The Crop

That's how friggin' illogical these people are. They even outlaw stuff that can't get you high.

[RainDog]

80. but oil and logging don't want it

hemp is a weed, literally, and still grows wild across the midwest where it was planted in the "hemp for victory" campaign in WW2. (it's called ditchweed, too, I think)

but it's also a useable source for paper pulp which could save forests, and a great crop to rotate for farmers because it requires so little to help it to grow, and you don't have to use insecticides because it's such a weed.

and it is a potential source for biomass forms of energy, which could also be grown much more cheaply than oil can be extracted, and it's a homegrown source, rather than imported.

...and the most outrage over any form of this plant has come from the south where a combination of tobacco state legislators and religious right panderers has held the entire country hostage.

supposedly, if you grow hemp, you don't want to also grow mj because the hemp will cross pollinate and make the mj less potent, so that's another stupid arguement against growing hemp.

[Q]

66. A great idea...

..as most police will tell you. It's a waste of time and money for most local police departments and unnecessarily ruins the lives of millions of Americans.

[RainDog]

69. The problem that I see for that approach here

is that we are not the same as The Netherlands.

For instance, they do not have a very noisy, nosy rabid right wing religious faction which holds so much sway over certain politicians, like here. The Netherlands prides itself on tolerance and liberality...nude beaches, all that...they have a social safety net, while our country is losing the little bit it has.

I don't know how their govt is set up, but at this time in America, even if the feds said they wanted to take up a policy of "benign neglect," the state and locals could decide not to follow that policy and the laws would not apply everywhere.

States could and would exercise states rights issues, as is happening now in the opposite way in CA regarding medicinal m.

With this policy, we would not address the real issue, which is the total disinformation that makes this whole prohibition even exist in this country, nor would it address the pandering which has occurred regarding the same (see examples above from Reefer Madness).

Also, within the space of four years, the policy could totally reverse with another Bush gang with a mouth-breather like Ashcroft at the helm of the DoJ.

Portugal and Spain have decriminalized all drugs and have shifted their efforts to prosecuting dealers and providing drug treatment for something which is, in fact, a health issue in terms of use, and not a crime issue.

We are totally hypocritical about the issue of "recreational drug" use in that we allow alcohol, and viagra, but not pot.

Again, anyone who cares about this issue needs to get involved in ways to pressure our politicians to be real about it.

Ron Paul, R-TX, calls himself a libertarian. Libertarians are the natural allies of liberals who oppose the criminalization of pot.

There must be other out there...

Soros, George Schultz, the bipartisan commission under Nixon which studied the issue and recommended decriminalization...these are all allies for sane drug policy and an end to the war on drugs.

What I see on this thread are tit for tat insults about candidates, not a discussion of the issue.

What a shame.

What a waste of time and effort.

Believe me, if politicians thought that they would face the backing at the polls of the majority of Americans (and I do think a majority would like to make m. a nonissue) we could see more rational policy about this issue.

Stating that The Netherlands policy has been a way to deal with this to free up law enforcement and the prison system makes sense as a first step, but it is not the way to get out of this mess of a losing "war on drugs."

By at least putting the issue out there for debate, at least, it's a start.

Let the democrats pit rational responses against Ashcroft's jailing of Tommy Chong and see which one the majority of Americans support.

[sistersofmercy]

73. Fantastic post!

But I think decriminalization is going to take time, it needs to be gradual, not all or nothing. Tommy Chong point is an excellent suggestion.

[RainDog]

75. Why thank you

FREE TOMMY CHONG!

(actually, I don't know if he is still in prison or not...does anyone on this board know?)

But, yes, every democrat needs to bring up the fact that Tommy Chong has been prosecuted by Ashcroft. I mentioned it the other day to a younger guy with tattoos all over his arms and he had no idea, but was incredulous.

Why should our taxpayer money be spent prosecuting Tommy Chong for selling bongs over the internet?

Why should our taxpayer money be spent on raiding places in CA which are growing m. with the consent of their city pols for people who have aids or m.s. or people who are paraplegics who have found that m. helps diminish phantom limb pain?

These are all common sense issues which Americans would find pretty disgusting, seems to me, if they knew that this is a way Bush's DoJ is spending time and money while the anthrax terrorist has yet to be found.

...not to mention that it's been MONTHS and we haven't heard anything about the person or persons who outed a CIA agent who was involved in the hunt for WMD in Africa just because her husband told the truth about the false Niger uranium claim which Bush and Cheney made repeatedly.

[sistersofmercy]

76. You are welcome and exactly!

I don't know if Tommy Chong is free but I don't think so because the conviction has been that long ago. The Plame story, I think it'll rank with the Iran/contra, after the fact, after the fall of the misadministration. Hopefully, enough people will stick with it to get it somewhere unlike Iran/Contra. There were convictions but then came the unnoticed pardons. Go figure.
Ashcroft is a boil in need of removal, creepy guy.

[RainDog]

81. FREE TOMMY CHONG

I'd asked for a pic in the lounge to make a tee shirt and got this beautiful one-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=506181

...and just read in the lounge that Chong just won an award on comedy central's "commie" awards for funniest man behind bars, so, yes, I guess that means he's still a political prisoner for John Ashcroft's war against the American people.