Mars

[Kosmos Mariner]

If a presidential candidate wants a JFK moment, and inspire a generation, they should contact Dr. Zubrin. I would love for Wes Clark to unveil this on the campaign trail. The Lewis and Clark Mission within 10 years... Our space program has bottomed out. Humanity's survival depends on exploring other worlds. Use the Chinese "threat" for all I care, just get us back to space in a meaningful way.




http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684835509/103-2604920-0687856?v=glance


:dem:

[leftyandproud]

1. considering we are BANKRUPT..

I think wasting money going to a dead planet is a bad idea. We should be spending billions of $$ to help people on earth today...not to send 2-3 people to a rock floating in space.

[lazarus]

2. Yeah

After all, what has NASA ever done for us here on earth?

:eyes:

http://vesuvius.jsc.nasa.gov/er/seh/spinoff.html

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinselect.html

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff.html

Here's a brief sampling of spinoffs from the Apollo program:

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/apollo.htm

[leftyandproud]

3. what the hell is the ISS for?

I thought that was suppossed to be a major home of experimentation over the next few decades. What does mars have to offer that can't be done at the space station?

[lazarus]

6. Mars has nothing, that we know of

But going to Mars, that's a whole different story. All we got from the Moon was a bunch of rocks. And a technological revolution.

[Kosmos Mariner]

4. There is NEVER enough money...

Our future depends on it, we MUST explore space. You cannot become a Spacefaring civilization without learning how to travel and live on "dead rocks". It would be one of the greatest accomplishments in human history. Just because Chimpy briefly floated some lame ass idea about going back to the Moon, does not mean that space exploration is a bad idea. Separate the message from the messenger.




--Like the philosophy of Greece, the paintings of the Renaissance and the music of the Enlightenment, the explosion of knowledge about our solar system and the surrounding universe will be remembered for thousands of years as the defining brilliance of our age. To destroy such a program for the sake of bean counting, or perhaps as part of some obscure political maneuver is not tolerable. It is not just a mistake, it is a crime – an infamous crime against civilization that is comparable to the burning of the Library of Alexandria.

Americans are proud of our space exploration program, and rightly so. It is a statement that we continue to be a nation of explorers and pioneers. But more than that, it is a statement that we are a truly great nation, great not because of our military might…but because we do great things for all humanity and for all time. Killing our space exploration program amounts to nothing less than pulling some of the stars off our flag. This is a desecration we cannot allow.

--Robert Zubrin, in Space News, September 13, 1999


--We choose to go to the Moon! We choose to go the Moon in this decade and to do the other things, not because they are easy but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win... This is in some measures an act of faith and vision, for we do not know what benefits awwait us... But space is there and we are going to climb it.
--John F. Kennedy, 1962



:dem:

[leftyandproud]

5. In the end..

humanity needs technology far more powerful than today's rockets to survive...I'd rather see them plow 100% of the NASA budget into R&D for new propulsion systems...something that could get us out of our solar system which will be annihilated when the sun goes red giant.

[lazarus]

7. red giant?

Yeah, let's spend all our money worrying about something that won't happen for thousands of years, that's even better.

You start small, and work your way up. We've done the moon, Mars is next.

[billyskank]

13. Thousands of years?

Billions more like. Bur your basic point is sound, the end of the sun is indeed the very last thing to worry about!

[leftyandproud]

8. ok fine

mars it is, damnit
;)

[minkyboodle]

9. As a Sagan fanatic

I applaud efforts to get to Mars and further our ability to exit and explore outside the solar system.... As an observer of the human race... I'm afraid we ain't making it to Red Giant stage my friend... unless we elect Dennis then I may have to change my view :)
Scott

[Kosmos Mariner]

10. I am a big Sagan fan too...

I think every public school should have reading "The Demon Haunted World" as a mandatory part of the core curriculum by the 10th grade. His well reasoned voice is desperately missed in this world.


:dem:

[imhotep]

11. Clark is interested in new rockets

just not the ones that actually leave the atmosphere.

[Kosmos Mariner]

12. What do you mean?

nt

[kiahzero]

17. He probably is trying to attack Clark again

Yes. We all understand you don't like Clark. Your pithy one-liners contribute nothing new or meaningful to the discourse.

[Speed8098]

14. Yes, what DO you mean??

:kick:

[radfringe]

15. most of our technological advances in the past 30+ years

(as well as new jobs) have been spin-offs from the space program

I know our fed budget is in record deficits - however investment into a mars mission or something akin to a national goal will help our economy in the long run

There is a BIG IF: if the promotion and funding is handled to meet the goal and not just turn into a WEALTH-fare program for the bush buddies...

[Kosmos Mariner]

16. kick

nt


:dem:

[jeter]

18. I don't think we should go to Mars...

...I think we should be a permanent space station on the Moon.

This makes the most sense. If we go to Mars, then we'll go - spend 10s of billions and come back and pat our selves on the back and never go back.

Let's take that money and spend it on a permanent space station on the Moon.

Things we can do:

1) go out exploring. Spend more time than just a few hours as was the case during Apollo. We may find minerals or the like not found on earth. We can also use the airless Moon for research on infectious diseases and the like since there will be no chance of such diseases spreading in such an environment. BIG ADVANCES in geology and science.

2) Can build a super sized telescope that puts Hubble to shame. We can use the dark side of the moon, since it is always pointing away from the Earth. There is no dust or interference as there is here, and we can use this ideal place to build a gigantic telescope that could see far beyond, and with greater detail, than the Hubble Space telescope. BIG ADVANCES in astronomy.

3) We can use the moon as a possible starting point for other space explorations. There is one-sixth the gravity of Earth on the moon. And no atmosphere. Landing and taking off from the moon would be easier and much cheaper. So any possible exporations of Mars or other planets/asteroids would become exponentially easier and cheaper if we had a lunar space port. BIG ADVANCES in space exploration.

Possible commercial uses:

4) We can use the moon as a telecommunications system. Again, since we are always facing one side of the moon, we can build networks on the moon that can be much better than the current satelitte b:ased communications network, which is i) expensive, ii) creates major space junk and debris which in time will make it more difficult to go into space.

5) Mining. We can extract certain minerals that we know exist. Mining would create mucho $$$. BIG ADVANCES in commercial trade.

6) We can use to the moon to provide another energy source, which i) will make us less reliant on fossil fuels on Earth; ii) give more people and countries the opportunity to have sustainable energy.

If we do it right we can make a lunar station self-sustaining and if we get commercial involvement, then we wouldn't require the government to cover all the costs of space missions. We could impose a royality system for those companies that do buisness on the moon or in space which may actually make NASA profittable.

If we do anything. It should definitely be putting a space station in the moon.

[TexasMexican]

20. I'm with you on that.

On the issue of space exploration.

I'll admit I'm not very "progressive," I'm downright imperialist. I think we should break the UN Space Treaty and back up our claim on the moon, it would definatley piss off alot of people but I think it would be cool to be the first nation to have territories outside of this planet.

Additionally there is the military apsects, we could build a big laser on it and make it a "Death Star." J/K

But seriously with a good observatory, tracking stations, and some missiles, lasers, and whatever it would be a good base against rogue asteroids, aliens, and other nations.

[TexasMexican]

19. Back to the Moon first.

I think we should probably go back to the moon first and set up a perminant presence there.

[baldguy]

21. Go for it!

Mars is literally a NEW WORLD with the same amount of land as the Earth, and we've explored an area equivalent to a large suburban back yard.

People who oppose space exploration because "it's a waste of money that could be better spent here" ignore the fact that what we learn by getting there will help us solve the problems we face at home. Plus we'd GET A NEW PLANET!

Humanity's destiny is in space. America can either join that future, or we can turn in upon ourselves and allow other people to build on our successes. I would rather not have America thought in the same manner as Portugal.