"How Can We Leave Iraq?"

[G_j]

http://www.traveling-soldier.org/11.03.leave.php

12/05/03: (Traveling Soldier) Have you noticed how the politicians who ask that question aren't in Iraq? They're making speeches and holding press conferences in Washington about "How can we leave Iraq?" 

An old story from Vietnam Days comes to mind. 

Somebody asked a soldier who was against the war, "How can we leave Vietnam?" 
The answer: "Ship or plane, either is good." 

The liars in Washington in those days were selling a different line of bullshit. If "we" leave Vietnam, the Communists will take over Vietnam, then Thailand, then Malaysia, then Burma, then India, then the Philippines and before you know it they're landing in California. "It's better we fight communism in the streets of Saigon than in the streets of New York," they said. 
Vietnam "fell" and none of that happened.

Today Vietnam is full of sweatshops where people get paid shit making sneakers for U.S. corporations and all kinds of other stuff, but noticeably few Communists have invaded California, and no Vietnamese appear to be interested in getting even for their millions of dead by traveling over here and fighting in the streets.

So what would happen if the U.S. military left Iraq and all the troops came home now?
...more...
(provocative questions)
-----------

[peace4all]

1. stretcher or body bag

the only ways the Bush admin. plan on having troops leave Iraq.

[welshTerrier2]

2. DU Poll: more than 60% say keep the troops in Iraq

in a poll on DU yesterday, 18 of 28 selected an option for Iraq that included keeping the troops there to "complete the mission" ...

i found that surprising for DU ...

here's a link to the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=840310

[G_j]

3. it's a tough question

because unlike * and "compassionate conservatives", 'we' really DO care about the Iraqi people.

Seeing the analogies to Viet Nam though, and remembering that situation and the excuses spun around it, really helps put things in perspective.

[Jacobin]

5. If people really "care", then leave them alone

Believe me, they don't want western infidels telling them how to govern their country. They really don't.

[G_j]

22. my point is that

people are heartbroken about the situation, and many sincerely struggle with the question.

[Jacobin]

4. Truly amazing poll

What is bizarre is that Smirky is trying to get his skinny ass out as soon as possible before the elections because his people know its a giant clusterfuck and the "decent liberals" think:

"oh, we messed it up so we have to go fix it". It's such a silly sentimentality that ignores culture and nationalism and religion and pride. The dems are getting sucked into Iraq like Johnson got sucked into Vietnam.

Very disturbing and sad.

We need to get the hell out and that includes so called U.N. and Nato partners. They are all infidels in the eyes of Iraqis.

God, please don't make me pull for a repuke candidate who supports getting out. Damnit, I don't want my sons drafted for this foolishness.

[JohnKleeb]

9. We've changed I thinks

Original proud far leftist here and democrat.

[Tinoire]

21. Numbers have changed since. About 50/50 now

1. Invite the U.N. in but "Bring the Troops Home - NOW !!" (11 votes, 37%)

2. Turn all civilian activities over to the U.N. but keep our military there to help stabilize the country. (4 votes, 13%)
-----------------------------
3. We need to stay in Iraq until the job's done but we should try to get other countries to participate. (12 votes, 40%)

4. Now that we're there, we have to stay the course and see the job through. Other countries won't come in now so we have to go it alone. (2 votes, 7%)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=840310

[spanone]

6. Easy, you reverse the entry policy.

[Jacobin]

7. Hop out the back, Jack, make a new plan Stan.....

We can either do it now, or we can do it later. Just depends on how many "transport tubes" you would like to send home under the cover of darkness

[9215]

8. Kissinger said that if we don't stop them in Iraq they will "follow us"

home.

We have the same fearmongering BS going on in this war as Vietnam, even when it has been proven that Iraq was no threat to the US.

Pardon me if I have a hard time feeling sympathy for a society of people that work so hard to be this ignorant. They are simply paying the price for their stupidity.

IMO Iraq cannot be dealt with until Bush is GONE and the BFEE destroyed.

The first order of business when the fox raids the henhouse is to get rid of the fox.

[Jacobin]

14. He's just replaying the same line from Vietnam.

No. Really. Its the same line.

[9215]

16. I didn't get a link, but I remember him

saying it.

How this differs from Vietnam in one way is that a large percentage of the American public really thinks that Saddam was behind 9/11 and therefore that the terrorists may just follow the troops home. This warped perspective is very dangerous and is a testament to the failure of the corporate press to accurately inform the public. :scared:

[G_j]

19. "Iraq cannot be dealt with until Bush is GONE "

...along with Cheney, Rummy and the rest.
It's extremely important to keep in mind that NOTHING GOOD can come from the people who engineered this criminal undertaking. Trusting these people at "rebuilding" is like asking Hitler to "fix" Poland. You can't even consider that the Iraqi people will somehow be helped back onto their reet with any of these foks stil in the loop. period!

[qwertyMike]

10. Baghdad Airport I would think

n/t

[bvar22]

11. Exit Plan (posted to another thread in GD)

The bush* controlled media and CorporoDems have portrayed this issue as having only two choices:

1) Cut and Run
or
2) Stay the Course

There are MANY, MANY alternatives that are NOT being discussed.

1) REALLY turn the occupation over to the UN. Not simply demand that the UN supply the US with foreign troops to be placed under US command so that they can be used for cannon fodder.

2) Remove ALL bush* appointed theater commanders to be replaced with NATO commanders.

3) Disband the Council of Quislings (IGC), replace them with a genuine interim council based on proportional representation with delegates from UN Supervised local elections. This council will have ONE PURPOSE: Produce a Transitional Constitution that will guarantee a governing body based on proportional representation and 3 branches of a National Government. Provide for Senate and House representation from at least three states.

4) Expell ALL US CORPORATIONS, and turn the rebuilding over to Iraq. Continue to provide adequate and generous rebuilding funds on a diminishing schedule.

5) If the Iraqis WANT an Islamic Theocracy, then SO BE IT!! It is THEIR country!

The above measures would go a LONG way to making Iraq a more secure country. This is Not CUT AND RUN, neither is it Staying the Course.

There are MANY other alternatives that should be MAJOR TOPICS in our National Debates!!!

IMHO: Civil War in Iraq is inevitable. It will be a BLOODY DISASTER if the US gets Caught in the Middle of the coming Civil War! Simply Staying the Course until SUCCESS (whatever that is) will produce this disaster!

[goddess40]

15. Leaving Iraq

Bvar has it exactly right and I agree completely. Why is it we can see it so simply and those in the *Administration can't? It's all because they don't want to relinquish their hold over the oil.

[9215]

17. Bush cannot remain in power if we are to fix Iraq.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=843870

[WEagle]

23. that's the bottom line

for there is not a single good intention within the PNAC crew

[laura888]

20. excellent post!

this topic should be debated to find the best course of action.

Its not simply a matter of "staying" or "leaving."

[Jester_11218]

12. We never intended omn leaving. Perpetual war is what we want

This administration represents the military industrial complex. We have launched the planet into perpetual war. We have no iontentions of leaving.

[9215]

18. Sorta

But Bush was expecting to have wars that he could control, if not win; not, as he has now, one that is out of control and unwinnable. Hitler got stronger because he had victories and even those people opposed to him at first thought he was right because he won. This bumbling "miserable failure" (Google it and you get a link to the White House)needs successes that he is not going to get.

My biggest fear when this war started was that Bush would win the war and then move on, like Hitler did, to new territory. I didnt' figure how much trouble he would have in Iraq. But that's because I forgot to consider the resolve of people fighting for their lives as the Iraqis are now and as the Vietnamese did a few decades ago.

Bush has incensed a good part of the world against him instead of, as he wanted, to "shock and awe" them into submission.

[KG]

13. by plane or boat - i'm sure the iraqi's don't care.