Howard Dean is the "backlash" to the establishment Democratic Party

[kentuck]

Howard Dean was a nobody. But when he said, "I come from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party", people took notice. Groups started forming on the Internet and donations started flowing to his campaign in surprising amounts. He saw the opportunity and he grabbed it. The little known Governor became the front runner for the Democratic nomination.

Democratic voters were tired of the direction and the message of the "old" Democratic Party. They wanted a fighter. They wanted a straight talker. Enter Howard Dean. As further proof that the people wanted change, they need look no further than the campaign of Joseph Lieberman. The VP candidate from just 3 years ago is more a less a footnote to history.

As the establishment candidates sit back and scratch their heads, Dean continues to gain momentum. There has been a "backlash" in the Democratic Party and Dean is leading the attack. Although Dean was once a part of the moderate DLC, he is now leading the charge against its demise.

(edited spelling)

[FrenchieCat]

1. But the only problem is

This election is not about changing the party....

This election is supposed to be about beating George Bush!

[kentuck]

2. Your key words....

"supposed to be...."

[Hep]

4. It's about both, and more

Maybe not for your guy.

[ulysses]

16. false dichotomy

Without changing the party, the Democrats *might* be able to pull off this one election based on people's fear of Bush, but even if so, without new, continuing, populist direction, we'll be right back where we started the next time.

If the focus is only on beating Bush, the Democrats will continue to decline.

[coralrf]

24. AMEN!

nt

[SahaleArm]

35. Changing the party to get a minority of votes...

isn't an enticing proposition. Are we really changing the biggest problem - voter apathy? We really won't know until election time.

[ulysses]

59. what we're doing now certainly isn't working.

And what minority of votes do you mean? Past Nader voters? No one is suggesting changing the Democratic party to be a wholesale copy of the Greens, only that further mimicry-only-less-so of Republican talking points might not be the best way to go.

[slinkerwink]

27. We do need to change the party first by reactivating the Democratic base

in order to beat George Bush.

[TexasPatriot]

60. they said the same thing

about Jerry Brown back in 92 (i know, i was a 'brownie' (hrm... maybe i need a better word for that...)) because of his 'revolutionary' use of the 1-800 number to build a grassroots organization and collect donations. They said things like 'this will change the political landscape' and 'sea change' and that sort of stuff... but the party went with Clinton instead - and the party changed in much different ways.

[Bombtrack]

3. The "establishment" is apparently whatever you say it is

Dean's campaign is co-chaired by the former DNC chairman, and Dean used to be in charge of the national governors association.

the only reason he's weaved this phony "me against the world" mantra is that most "established" dems other than a few congressmen from ultra-safe democratic districts, and people who've been ritired for 20 years don't support him.

The democratic establisment consists of elected democrats, there staffs, teachers and labor unions, minority and womens groups, trial lawyers, and loyal activists.

Dean panders to them as much if not more than any candidate

[Hep]

5. I think maybe

you just don't have a full understanding of what's going on in our campaign.

My county D party is fragmented and disorganized. WAS,that is. Thanks to Dean, we're going to go from maybe 30% organized precincts to over 80%.

That probably doesn't mean anything to you, but it is something that will live on whether or not Dean wins. I'm sure you don't care.

[Upfront]

9. Big Money

has been in control of both partys. Dean is trying to bust out of the grip of big money. He has my support. Go Dean! We want America back!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. If it's only a false perception, as you say, then why is Dean

winning? While I may agree with you that Dean is not as leftist as many would like (myself included), the perception is that he is against the establishment Democrats. That he is not going along with the politics as usual, "move to the right", "we can't win without the south", nonsense that lost the election in 2000. The Democrats (I mean the ones that don't hold office or act as lobbyists) desire a change in direction. One that will stand up to the right wing in this country, not move towards it in a feeble attempt to pacify it.

That's why Dean is winning. The people (remember them?) want a fighterm, not a "me too" whiner.

[kentuck]

14. We must remember history....

FDR was establishment also....but in the end, he had to govern by the people's wishes, and they were tired of Hoover politics and the big corporate welfare of the 1920's...

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

29. Absolutely.

My father was a union organizer in the '30s and hated FDR because he felt that he had stopped the revolution by stealing the socialist's programs to satisfy the people. I see Dean is somewhat the same light. Perhaps, not "really" a leftist, or even a strong liberal, but a response to the people's desire for a real alternative to big business politics and monied interests. It isn't so much about policies as about democracy in the sense of the people running things rather than the self-serving moneybags and their political lackies.

[arewethereyet]

6. There are clearly elements of the party seeking change

This is not particularly new. The more left oriented folks are never quite OK with centrist candidates, the centrists are never quite OK with the more left leaning candidates. One block manages to secure the votes to nominate. Dean was clever enough to try a slightly different tack of what you could think of as a schtiphrenic candidacy where he is fairly liberal on some issues (war, cival unions, health care) and centrist on others (guns, rebel flags, fiscal). This is crux of why the party dislikes him. They've worked for decades to knit a quilt that all groups can live with and Howie is upsetting the apple cart.

The anger thing is wasted effort. Clinton was viewed as someone who would get things done but without fighting. This really hurts Dean with the whole if it does appeal to a few.

But I d like the backlash imagry.

[realFedUp]

7. The Dem party needs shaking, not stirring

Dean's giving the party a well needed shot
of energy.

[jpgray]

8. I support Dean, but he is establishment

He will give corporations what they want, just like all the other major candidates. Kucinich is the non-establishment candidate, and no one will give him the time of day, though many will be happy to pat him on the head when they glorify their establishment favorite. It's a DU tradition. :)

Dean's an excellent candidate, but the "backlash to the establishment"? Please. Take a look at all the big name establishment folks working on his campaign, supporting his candidacy, and giving him money--look at his policies--it just doesn't hold up.

[Ardee]

12. One of a very few

with a clear understanding of just who Howie is and what he stands for. I applaud the clarity of JPGray's vision but, unfortunately cannot understand why, if this poster sees Dean so clearly, there is no mention of the fact that, with the nation so firmly in the control of special interests Dean will continue this trend to the ultimate detriment of the electorate.

[jpgray]

15. Certainly he will continue it

Whoever wins the Dem nomination will continue it. But we need someone to slow the other things down, and most of the major candidates (not Lieberman) will do that. Unless you want to heighten the contradictions and generate a huge disaster, producing some solution to the problem will take time, and we won't have that with another Republican administration. I would rather we delay the fall with Democratic administrations while we look around to try and fix what is wrong with our system than have the total collapse, trying afterwards to pick up the pieces.

[dansolo]

45. But Kucinich won't get anything done

How much will Kucinich accomplish when he won't be able to get Congress to go along with him? Face it, any president will need to be a little establishment. They don't operate in a vacuum. The trick is to find someone who is smart enough and strong enough to use the establishment to further policies that help everyone, instead of a select few.

[jpgray]

47. The president has great legislative power

But I would agree that a Dem who is more establishment would be able to use it more effectively. It's just that the policies won't be as great. I agree also that we have to find the candidate establishment enough to be accepted, but who has the integrity to do the right thing at least some of the time.

[kodi]

10. how so, when he is a part of the Establishment?

kucinich, yes, but dean? come on his views are essentially the same as mainstream democratic politicians. his vocal dissent about the iraw war is the single issue that he has which is even marginally different than most democratic politicians.

what is a danger to the democratic power structure is the beast that dean's campaign has begun to create, a grass roots activism at the local level which, if not controlled will challenge the party, yet not from the top down, but from the bottom up.


but even there, considering human nature and the way things work today, such a movement requires large sums of money and constant activism to sustain it in a battle against the current power brokers in the democratic party.

if dean supporters at meet-ups are willing to promise to remain active locally, go to local town meetings for several years, and exert force on the political process locally they might make a change, but i fear, from historcal analysis, such activism will melt like snow once the presidential election is over.

what will remain are those politically involved folks that currently man the democratic party apparatus and these folks are traditionalists, not grass roots activists.

[kentuck]

11. And this is exactly what is happening...

"...what is a danger to the democratic power structure is the beast that dean's campaign has begun to create, a grass roots activism at the local level which, if not controlled will challenge the party, yet not from the top down, but from the bottom up."

[kodi]

20. past experience shows that such movements are not sustainable

i hope i am wrong, and perhaps this time it will be different, but i would not bet a plug nickle it will happen.

and i say this because generally, only election year politics motivate people to get out and exert influence on the political process. most people, the overwhelming majority of people, are not willing to do the hard dirty tasks, day in day out of volunteering locally to work for a poltical party unless an election is involved.

the democratic party will not change unless and until the left and progressives in general take to heart the lessons from the methods of the far right, and religious right activists of the GOP grass roots movement which spent years positioning themselves throughout their local party structures to control the GOP agendas.

i do not believe that people on the left are willing to do this.

[Scott Lee]

46. They're not supposed to be.

Revolutionary movements are there to set another chain of events in motion. They cannot "sustain" as that would be contradictory - they would int that case become the "status quo".

[Scott Lee]

44. WAS. Remember that Boris Yeltsin was once a Soviet party insider.

[ecstatic]

17. Yep. If he doesn't win (or at least get VP), I'm out

Dean promises to change the way Congress etc. does business and I'm all for it. The one group within the Dem party that has consistently stood up for Democratic ideals has been the Black Caucus. Most other Dems have stood by silently as Bush lied to Americans time and TIME AGAIN!!

[coralrf]

22. Dean is not Black...

and what you say is not true.

Powell, both Mike and Colon are Black. Condi is Black. Clarence is Black. The GOP in congress is all White.

Race is rather an old issue isn’t it?

Dean has probably had very little contact with Black Americans. He comes from a state that is damn near 100% white. That is not true of other candidates running on the Democratic ticket.

Let me explain why Dean did not vote for the "War Resolution", "medicrap" or 'sit by idly while Bush lied to Americans'. Because he NEVER sat in congress. How do you justify such comparisons?

[ecstatic]

31. I didn't inject race into the discussion except to say that the CBC

is *one of* the only groups standing up for Democratic ideals. Yes, the CBC happens to be composed of blacks. What exactly was your point?

[SahaleArm]

37. What does the CBC have to do with Dean and only Dean? *nm*

*nm*

[kodi]

23. paragraph 4 of post 10 refers to your attitude.

the sign of an adult is one who can delay instant gratification for further pursuit of long terms goals.

[ecstatic]

33. so I should compromise my values in the hopes that *one day* the Dems will

change? Leaders of the Dem party have been using the same unsuccessful tactics for 3 years now, and it seems that *some of them* will never learn: We don't want a party that mirrors the Republicans. Its not worth it to have a Dem in office if he/she is not going to *act* like a Dem. Actions speak louder than words (or in this case, names).

[kodi]

38. so your alternative is to do....................... nothing.

There can be no excuses for any intelligent progressive standing aloof in 2004 considering what we’ve seen from the White House for the past three years.

Idealism?

I didn't have much respect for such an argument in 2000, and now with 2 wars, tax cuts, Medicare, Kyoto, abortion, i have even less for it now.

voting is not therapy, its choosing between available alternatives.

[DrFunkenstein]

18. Division Between Words And Action Is Called A "Credibility Gap"

But I must admit that I have never seen more people fall for campaign slogans at complete odds with political record. If deception can be impressive, I'm impressed. Not only does Dean make people fall for it, he makes people know that they are falling for it. That's the mark of a great con man.

[jpgray]

19. Well, it's the art of all politicians--Dean's no worse than the others

All those who voted for Bush fell for campaign slogans at complete odds with political record--probably a great many more than the number who are actively supporting Dean. And all the major candidates are trying similar things. Any politician on a national level has to please so many people so much of the time that he/she will have to obfuscate issues into black and white, and put his/herself on the "right" side. Dean casts Democrats as either "establishment" (read: corrupt, covered in cobwebs and soft money--out of touch) or as "scrappy upstarts with integrity" like himself. It's just the way things work, I think.

[Hep]

21. Stupid or gullible, stupid or gullible

We all know what you think of Dean supporters.

[DrFunkenstein]

28. Yes, I Clearly Said That About All Dean Supporters

You don't distort my positions so much as clarify the essential kernel of truth in them. I think every Dean supporter is an idiot, making a good deal of the people at DU idiots. That's exactly what I think. Whatever.

But there are certainly Dean supporters that will explain away anything and everything about him, because somehow they feel that the best candidate is a pure one. I disagree with that notion, and I have a certain level of contempt for apologists.

[Scott Lee]

48. You're part of the reason Dean is winning.

So keep talking down to us slack jawed yokels. Ayup.

[polpilot]

52. Many Dean supporters KNEW that Howard had no competition 1 yr. ago.

Funky's assessment of those who voiced the inevitable..Dean will crush Kerry...are now derided as lacking political experience or savvy. Not a very sensible argument Funky, as the results are now in.
We knew it and stated it. It was clear to intelligent political observers that Dean would crush the Kerry campaign. Your statements of the last year would indicate your surprise and annoyance of Dean's brilliance. Let it go.

Dean '04...

[coralrf]

25. How does Dean differ from Nader?

He is fragmenting the left. How does he differ?

I resent X-Ray showing me the errors of my ways. I don’t see him as anything but Rove's candidate to ensure a Bush victory.

[jpgray]

26. If he wins the nom, I imagine the Dems will solidify behind him

I don't think this primary has been more contentious than others.

[cally]

57. Why will Dems solidify behind him

He's basically attacked every other candidate and the democratic party. Much of his campaign is about criticizing fellow dems. How will he unify the party after that?

He scares me. I know many love him and he will probably be the nominee. I just can't see how he will win against Bush. His anger plays well to the base, his criticism of Dems plays well to the left, his anti-war stance plays well to liberals, but I just don't see any of his message that will get us enough electoral votes.

[slinkerwink]

30. You're right about the backlash, and the establishment Dems

are realizing it. That's why that Washington Post article said they were getting behind Dean---they have to if they want to survive. He forced Democrats to confront the Iraq war, the economy, and to speak out against George Bush. Before Dean was the frontrunner, Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman weren't even saying that Bush misled us or that Bush did a crappy job with the economy. That's how Dean has changed the Democratic rhetoric.

[KittyWampus]

32. Dean IS THE ESTABLISHMENT. The Outsider Stuff Is A Myth

His Presidential campaign, his gubernatorial camaigns and his Administration were fueled by Big Energy.

Specifically Vermont Yankee/Entergy (the Koch Brothers).

Dean IS DLC... a guy who changed positions just as he entered the race for political convenience...

Dean's campaign staff are insiders...

The momentum Dean has got is largely due to the media allowing him name recognition while denying it to other candidates who not only have recoeds of EXCELLENCE and LIBERAL policies but who have a much better chance of WINNING IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

[bpilgrim]

36. perception IS everything

and the perception IS he is an OUTSIDER and he is milking it - very wisely - for everything it's worth.

peace

[bpilgrim]

34. thats the way i see it - n/t

peace

[bread_and_roses]

39. Irony piled upon irony

in this primary. Yes, I do think Dean's support is part of a backlash against the quisling record of the establishment Democratic Party (I speak of the direction of the party as a whole; individuals have lock-stepped along to greater or lesser extent, and a few maybe not at all). The irony of course is that Dean is as "establishment" as any of them (see posts 8, 10, 12, 18 and Dr.Funk's...I forget the #).

I think people have been so hungry for an alternative to the World View perpetuated by the neo-cons that they are almost desperate for any glimmer of an alternative. And hungry for a sense of political potency. Dean's campaign is brilliant, but his policies do not even begin to address any of the systemic problems in our increasingly racially and economically divided landscape. I cannot see any reason that our Corporate Masters would much object to him.

[kentuck]

40. Do not confuse Dean as the leader of a movement....

It is the people that are leading Dean. Just as the people led FDR, another establishment candidate in 1932.

[bpilgrim]

54. i believe dean knew that country was ready for an FDR canidate

and dean has certainly capitalized on that and even though i am a kucinich supporter first i certainly appreciate and salute all the gains made by dean.

shoot, the word is OUT and the rest of the canidates are projecting real ANGER and speaking out strongly against * and his policies.

it was great listening too yesterdays florida convention the dems are starting to fight back much more ferciely and dean was certainly the trail blazer i am very thankful for that and appreciate that it is starting to catch on.

i always said dean might just start a wild fire or ride a wave of popular unrest with current state of affairs and he has certainly shown good form up to this point.

go DEAN :toast:

and the rest of yall dems, gephardt was on FIRE yesterday :bounce:

peace

[bread_and_roses]

56. I don't see it that way

...so we'll have to agree to disagree.

[unfrigginreal]

58. Exactly

And Dean himself knows that. I found this article interesting along these lines:

Will There Be Another FDR?

Will the Democrats find a neo-FDR for the 2004 campaign? I suppose it depends on which qualities one sees as constitutive of such a figure. A perfectly liberal voting record, or a basic approach to government? A clear, uncompromising ideology, or a willingness to listen to the voices below? While those combining such qualities may possibly emerge, candidates meeting none of these criteria most surely will.

One thing, however, is certain: the New Deal coalition, at least in its post-1960s incarnation, remains intact. Middle class liberals, union labor, and the black vote— as well as the increasing Latino vote— still drive the Democratic Party, even as its leadership targets white suburban males and retirees. Yet while the 61% of voters who did not turn out in the midterm elections may seem ripe for the picking, key players like Clinton counsel the party to stay in the political middle. What, one can only wonder, is the Democrats deal?

http://www.thebrooklynrail.org/express/winter03/fdr.html

[slinkerwink]

43. see his speech in SC today.

"If any politician tries to win an election by turning America into a battle of us versus them, we're going to respond with a politics that says that we're all in this together - that we want to raise our children in a world in which they are not taught to hate one another, because our children are not born to hate one another."

there's more on the Dean blog.

[Scott Lee]

50. Don't confuse them with facts. It just upsets them.

[Selwynn]

41. Dean IS the establishment Democratic party!

He's just a CENTRIST Democrat with a brilliant strategy for his campaign - lie and act like an "outsider" and a "liberal" and feed off anger and discontent of the disenfranchished. It just might work, he might win the nod, but it won't make it true or anything more than a brilliant campaign strategy based on bullshit.

[Scott Lee]

49. WAS. See above.

[Scott Lee]

42. You get it. The statists don't and never will.

[slinkerwink]

51. yeah, it's rather sad about their blindness.

[FrenchieCat]

53. I don't see the big movement....

I see Dean with 20% nationally at the most. How is that so big. It's just that we have 9 candidates in the race, and that's what putting him ahead. Actually 70% of Democrats support the more suppositely more "establishment" candidates, so I am not sure what Dean supporters are even talking about!

[bpilgrim]

55. thats the problem with the dem establishment...

they don't even see the problem...

the dean 'anger' seems to be contagious though... just listen to the other canidates, shoot gephardt yesterday was red with anger :bounce:

times are changing and those who refuse to adapt will be left behind.

peace

[slinkerwink]

61. that's why Clark will be left behind if he doesn't make the transition

from anger about Bush's foreign policy to anger about Bush's domestic policies.