Your views on Quebec separatism?

[HEyHEY]

I've actaully wondered this for a little while. Do Americans see Quebec as a repressed region and culture in Canada? Or do they see them as a whiny buncha ingrates?

Do you think their language and culture is in danger? And anything else you want to add....


Here's one link that gives a bit of background, I'm gonna look for others too.
http://www.linksnorth.com/canada-history/quebecsep.html

[Maple]

1. Er.....

WHAT Quebec separatism?

[HEyHEY]

2. It's still around

Not a threat anymore....but it does exsist

[HEyHEY]

3. should ad

I've seen some people on this forum elude to an opinion that Quebec should be its own nation....so I've always been curious as to what Americans think of that whole situation.

[Maple]

6. A few malcontents

or fruitcakes, does not a movement make. Nation either.

Quebec separatism is dead for at least another generation, and by then it won't matter anyway.

[HEyHEY]

9. A few Malcontents???

The PQ is the official opposition, the Bloc still gets many seats in Federal government....that is hardly a few malcontents. Yes the movement is dormant, and judging by the way the youth look at it, it will soon be dead. Buit you can't pretend it is just a couple people.

[Frederic Bastiat]

21. As an American and Quebec resident (much to the chagrin of one DUer)

Separatism is dead for at least a generation or two. All the PQ/Bloc seem to offer are the same old tired arguments but little in the way of idea's i.e lets separate from Canada first then work out the modalities later - folks just got tired of it. All the PQ did was whine oh it's Ottawa's fault while they pillaged the public coffers for 9 years.

In the recent provincial elections Quebecers overwhelmingly rejected the PQ after years of mismanagement (higher taxes, $4 billion deficit, crumbling infrastructure, long patient wait lists for procedures, corporate cronyism, forced amalgamation of boroughs to form mega cities etc)

It goes without saying that the Bloc are in dire straits with the upsurge of Federal Liberals under Martin coupled with the lack of separation fervor. They are the proverbial one act show whose MP's are oft chided by the local media for collecting their pension from the very people they want to separate from.

What I have seen lately is that people are asking questions - the right questions; why are our taxes so high? What's with the crumbled infrastructure, why are the unions so powerful (I picked up the La Presse this Saturday and nearly passed out when I read the headline "Quebecers in favor of outsourcing, say government is too big")

As you can tell a lot of issues have to be worked out before some politician calls a referendum again. I've gotten used to living here, I even enjoy it, whether Quebecers choose to separate or not it won't bother me at all - 80% of Quebec exports end up in America, so IMO they'll always be room for a Yank or two here ;)

[Maple]

26. Yeah

a few malcontents...or opportunists more like.

Quebec isn't going anywhere.

Anymore than any of the other provinces are.

Just political chatter.

[brainshrub]

4. I don't have an opinion on the issue per se

But I admire the way the Canadians did not resort to repressive measures to keep Quebec part of greater Canada.

Why would people from Quebec want to separate itself from a nation tolerant & mature enough to not resort to violence?

[HEyHEY]

5. A grudge

;-)

[arewethereyet]

7. as I understand it (from Canadians)

its mostly money. They dominate the other provinces in terms of economic influence and dislike picking up the tab for the rest of the place.

Not Canadian, just saying what I heard. Could be bull could be gospel.

[HEyHEY]

10. They, as in QUebec picks up the tab?

ANyone who told you that was lying to you...Quebec is a have not province meaning it spends more than it brings in.

[Frederic Bastiat]

24. Yup Quebec is a have not

But the separatist movement has brainwashed some individuals that this is not the case. To my recollection Alberta and Ontario are the driving force of Canada.

[alexwcovington]

8. Eh....

Too right-wing...

[durutti]

11. Oppose

I support nationalism when the oppressed nation so overwhelmingly despises its oppressor that it prevents people from seeing themselves in terms of class, and creates division along national lines.

So, in the case of Quebec, I don't support independence. Referenda have shown that the people of Quebec can live with the rest of Canada.

The only national liberation movements that I definitely support are those of Ireland, Palestine, and Puerto Rico.

[camero]

12. How are they going to have any trade?

They're landlocked. Plus they're French so you know Bushie won't trade with them.

I heard that this fight stretches all the way back to the French and Indian War. Pretty much like the South still being sore about the Civil War.

[Flightful]

15. Buy a map

Québec landlocked? LMAO- I suspect that the management of the Port of Montréal would disagree.

[camero]

16. A lake doesn't count

Texas would have better trade possibilities if it seceded from the US tha Quebec would.

[Frederic Bastiat]

22. Look up the St. Lawrence river

:eyes:

[Minstrel Boy]

25. a visual aid:

[camero]

28. Ok, you got me...lol

Gulf of St. Lawrence.

[camero]

27. A river also does not count

A river can only handle so much traffic. Most of the trade that comes to Montreal comes by rail or truck. :eyes:

No Ocean beside it means its landlocked.

[Frederic Bastiat]

29. You call this landlocked?

No Ocean beside it means its landlocked.

Are you serious?

http://www.port-montreal.com/site/1_0/1_1.jsp?lang=en

Linked to more than 100 countries around the world by many reputable shipping lines, the Port of Montreal is located on one of the largest navigable waterways in the world – the majestic St. Lawrence River – and offers the shortest route between major European and Mediterranean ports and North American markets. Situated 1,600 kilometres inland from the Atlantic, it is the international port closest to North America’s industrial heartland, representing a hinterland of some 100 million Canadian and American consumers.



Of all the ports along the North American East Coast, Montreal is the one that offers, year-round, the fastest, most direct and most economical access to major markets in Central Canada, the U.S. Midwest and the U.S. Northeast.

Ships need only stop at one port - Montreal – to access these vast markets. Nearly all shipping lines offering regular service to the Port of Montreal fully unload and load their vessels here, offering considerable savings in time and money. Transatlantic, rail and road links interconnect to shorten distances and reduce door-to-door cargo transportation costs.

[camero]

38. I corrected myself above

But the St. Lawrence river can only handle so much traffic. And there would be a big fight as to who owned the Gulf of St. Lawrence.

Something tells me they would have to go through Canadian Territorial Waters to get to Montreal. They could very well still be locked out of trade.

Lucky Canada is a kinder country, eh?

[mot78]

32. Well we Americans are sort of responsible for their "pain"

we did help the British, but we were technically still British subjects, and there were subsequent atrocities (Acadian Deportation)but that war was the product a several complex 17th and 18th century desputes that would inevitably lead Britain and France to fight. I don't think Quebec is better off economically if they become independant. Reminds me of when the Soviet Union broke up, economic chaos.

[camero]

42. True, we are

I think they are better off with Canada than without.

[HereSince1628]

13. Quebec should stay apart from the US!

But I'd consider giving them the UP of Michigan :evilgrin"

[Lefty48197]

35. Hey, we already kicked Ohio's butt once over the UP

don't make us take it up with Quebec!

[SmileyBoy]

14. As a semi-Manitoban, I'm against it.

Secession would divide the country geographically and isolate the Maritime Provinces. And that in itself is good enough reason not to do it.

[Iverson]

17. It would be a big mistake.

Quebec has a distinct society that everyone acknowledges. As far as I can tell from a distance, and with limited information, separatism is about feeling superior to anglophones. Separation would foster the misconception that there are no francophones outside of Quebec, and it would nearly eliminate the reason for official bilingualism.

Further, Quebec separatists never seem to extend the logic of their arguments to native Canadians. That is, separatists want to claim the moral authority of the oppressed minority while disallowing the same to other smaller oppressed minorities. For example, native treaties with Canada would be erased for those first nations in Quebec.

Until separatism loses the taint and the motives of M. Parizeau and his bigoted sentiments, it will not get a warm reception from me.

However, it's really up to the citizens of Canada, and especially those in Quebec.

[K8-EEE]

18. My Overall Impression

When I travelled through Canada by train a few years back, I absolutely loved Quebec City and Montreal, I loved the people and the food and everything about it. I did not find a lot of anger or negativity about this subject from them them, but the way they went ranting on about Quebec Separatists in Toronto, they reminded me of the wingnut biggots here, just the whole tone of their argument, based on that I always had a bias towards the Quebecois, also, I'm a Basque American so I kind of relate to the whole Separitism beat.

I don't have a lot of knowledge about the subject, but I just related more to the Quebecois when I was there.

btw If GWB wins again I would seriously consider moving to Canada! He just scares me to death.

[saoirse]

19. Secession is not justified

Canada in no way represses Quebec, its culture, or its language -
in fact, all three have become much stronger because of Quebec
being in Canada.

Secession is only justified when part of a country is clearly repressed - a good example is the way England treated Ireland, which was actually much worse than the way they treated the American
colonies prior to the revolution.

Quebec, on the other hand, has privileges other provinces don't have - in other words, Quebec is actually treated better. Plus, in the last 35 years the prime minister has always been from Quebec, other than for maybe a year or two.

Actually, it sounds to me like Canada has much stronger grounds for seceding from Quebec! But Quebec brings a lot to Canada, with its language and culture - and its also a huge force for progressive policies.

Canada simply isn't the same country it was in the 1960's, when Quebec separatism became a force. Back then the country was still a rather prim former colony dominated by and largely composed of Protestant Anglos. Today Canada is a vibrant multicultural country where Quebec shares the head of the table with Ontario. So, I think part of the reason Quebec separatism is dying is because what it was fighting against has already died.

Oh yeah - can I come live there?
;)

[DrWeird]

20. All I know is

that whole subplot with Lucien Galtier better be going somewhere. Because if it doesn't...!

[TexasMexican]

36. Harry Turtledove PWNS!!!

ROFL I'm reading "The Victorious Opposition" right now.

[monchie]

39. As am I!

I suppose that Turtledove wishes to contrast the Galtiers living comfortably if slightly uneasily in the American-dominated but nominally independent Republic of Quebec with the Yankee-hating Canucks in occupied ROC (Rest of Canada).

And even though The Great White North has been pretty quiet for about a decade now--it's now 1934--you know that violence lurks under the surface...

And interestingly enough, I do see some parallels between Iraq and Turtledove's depiction of an American-occupied Canada.

[Fescue4u]

23. I couldnt care less

I mean really.

If they want to seperate let'm, if not thats fine to.

Either way it has little affect on the US.

FWIW, they are a rude bunch up there. I was in Hull and Montreal a few years ago and they are they make New Yorkers look like nuns.

[TexasMexican]

30. Didnt they have that vote...

a few years back.

I remember it, but I dont remember the details like what year it was or what the percentages were.

Was all of Canada allowed to vote, or just Quebec?

IMO if the majority of people in Quebec want thier own nation they should be allowed too.

[ozone_man]

40. I think in 1995 there was a Quebec vote.

Very close, only a percentage point or two. The PQ leader at the time blamed their failure partially on the influx of non-Francophones into the province, thus diluting the separatist movement. He took some heat for that comment, and resigned shortly after.

I was sort of hoping for the Separatist win. Now, it seems to be a dormant issue.

I would say that the Quebec French feel surrounded by an Anglophone "sea" (no surprise there), and wish to maintain their cultural identity. I don't know enough to comment much more on the issue.

From a U.S. perspective, I see very little tolerance for foreign language in our country (we are culture nazis). Canada is a bilingual country, very different from the U.S. and receptive to different cultures. I don't foresee a real problem with Quebec staying part of Canada.

[Fescue4u]

41. That long ago?

Wow, time sure does fly.

[AngryAmish]

31. What is Quebec?

Just kidding.

[mzmolly]

33. I agree that it's up to Quebec...

Personally I'd say I'm against, but I don't know enough about it to have a solid opinion.

[Lefty48197]

34. I oppose the Quebec separatist movement

I passionately watched the election returns when the referendum was held a few years ago. I lived about 40 miles from the shores of Windsor, and we think of Canada as our brother. It would be terrible to see Canada torn in two.

[monchie]

37. Separatism is a romantic ideal...

...while federalism is a decent business deal for Quebec.

I kinda doubt that the Quebecois will ever think of Canada as "mon pays" (my country). "Mon pays" will always be Quebec, not Canada.

OTOH, Canada doesn't really repress Quebec or the Quebecois, and being part of Canada does have some very practical advantages. If Quebec were an independent country, it would be a mini-state with little world influence--remember, the population of Quebec is about the same as New York City. An independent Quebec would mean less influence influence over world events for both Canada and Quebec.

One of the most paranoid--and somewhat justified--fears of the Quebecois is what they call "Louisianization," named after the American state. Now, remember, they're 8 million French-speakers surrounded on 3 sides by 300 million English-speakers and on the fourth side by Arctic wilderness. When Louisiana was first admitted to the US, it was an officially bilingual state and I'd guess that the majority of white settlers at the time were French-speakers. As Anglos moved into Louisiana, they took control of the state and very gradually reduced the rights of French speakers. The Cajuns in southwest Louisiana were able to hold out till the early 20th Century, partly because of the remoteness of their communities, but then mandatory school attendance laws combined with the forced closing of French language schools to create a new generation of assimilated, English-speaking Cajuns. "Louisianization"--the Anglicization of French Louisiana--didn't happen overnight; it took about 125 years or so. And a big part of the reason it was successful was because Louisiana was surrounded on three sides by English speakers who vastly outnumbered them, and on the fourth side by the Gulf of Mexico.

At this point, though, the Quebecois and the Canadian government have erected enough protections against creeping "Louisianization" so that French speakers shouldn't have to fear a similar assimilation. That's why, I believe, Quebec separatism is unnecessary. Yes, there will be continuing pressure to learn English--as a second language--but now Anglos also have pressure to learn French as a second language, something that really wasn't happening until about 30 years ago, even in Quebec itself.

[SmileyBoy]

43. Ask a resident of St. John's, Halifax or Fredericton what they think.

How do you think it would affect the population of the Maritime Provinces, in terms of trade, travel and economy???

[sweetheart]

44. Foolish

I once did some business in Montreal until that stupid lucien bouchard (sp?) started up... and then every business moved its HQ to toronto.

If indeed different immigrant populations are allowed to secede and create nations, then what of chinese-canada... a much larger nation than a 17th century accent french canada.

All it does is divide.... the BLOC are divisive fools like GWB only less successful. I'm glad they're on the out.. and i admire the government for leaving them to try... as it further endorses the permissiveness yet wisdom of the canadian nation.

Go CAnada... prove by example that the western hemisphere can have liberal government.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

45. Quebec Nationalism is race-based nationalism, not civic nationalism

race-based nationalism works on the premise that one race has more right to a specific territory than others. This type of nationalism is prevalent among certain groups in Northern Ireland.
Civic Nationalism works on the premise that a community of interest exists that can be defined as a nation, and that this nation should be a state. This of course is how nations form.
One of these is reasonable (it led to the creation of Canada and the US, of course) the other should not be touched with a barge poll.