Suckered again - wasted $ on the NYT hit-job "The Dean Connection"

[arendt]

What a hit job!!

Dean's campaign is nothing but a bunch of wierdos...love-sick
20-somethings, unrelated people who travel around the country
in airstream trailers, retread dot-commers, hackers who work
days at a stretch, eat dry pasta and drink each other''s soup, etc,
ad nauseam.

This is basically a "look at this freak show" piece. There is
plenty to discuss about just what Dean's Internet strategy is
all about, why its raising money, etc.

But, NOOOOooooOOOO, the NYT has to spend all its ink on
the dirty details of the love lives of some Dean staffers. This
juvenality is how the paper of record covers the extremely
innovative campaign of the leading candidate? Disgusting.

I swore I was not going to ever buy the NYT again - phony liberal,
mouthpiece for the GOP, William Safire, etc. And I got suckered,
thiinking they were actually going to do some serious reporting.

----

I noticed an earlier thread that bought into the hit job,
accusing the Dean campaign of exactly what the NYT
smear job wanted people to accuse them of.

Wake up, idiots. You have been spun so hard you are
dizzy. You have been telling us that the mainstream press
loves Dean, but this is a hit job. Now you tell us that,
having established Dean, they are now tearing him
down. Come on, guys, for that to be the plan and for
that plan not to leak and for that plan to have anticipated
the totally unanticipated success of the Dean campaign
would have taken the security of the WW2 Enigma Project
plus the political brainpower of the Manhattan Project.

I'm not buying the "Dean was manufactured" conspiracy
theory. It makes the GOP into supermen. They are just
slime.

----

Sorry to post this so late. I spent the day digging out of the
blizzard. By the time I got to the store, all the papers were
gone. It took a while to find an NYT to waste my money on.

arendt

on edit: typos

[Jacobin]

1. NYT is NOT the paper of record, except for the neo-cons and PNACers

They are shameful media whores, out to trash any threat to the Smirk Regime and his Middle East Agenda, which they support wholeheartedly.

[arendt]

2. Yeah, Tom Friedman has out-whored himself lately, but...

the rest of the world still thinks the NYT is a paper of record.
Sad, disgusting, but a fact.

arendt

[KittyWampus]

3. Cspan Just Showed 3 Dean Commercials On The Road To Whitehouse

just before they went to Lieberman talking... they said they'd show some of the candidates' ads.

They showed:

the ad attacking Dean for his "tax raising" policy
Dean's ad rebutting the attack
Dean's biographical ad

They then showed one Clark ad, one Edwards ad and one Kerry ad.

As for the NYTimes piece on Dean- sorry if it was insipid.

[chimpymustgo]

6. The NYTimes piece was insightful, eyeopening, and frankly alarming.

By SAMANTHA M. SHAPIRO
Published: December 7, 2003

- snip-
People at all levels of the Dean campaign will tell you that its purpose is not just to elect Howard Dean president. Just as significant, they say, the point is to give people something to believe in, and to connect those people to one another. The point is to get them out of their houses and bring them together at barbecues, rallies and voting booths.

- snip -
Dean supporters do not drive 200 miles through 10 inches of snow -- as John Crabtree, 39, and Craig Fleming, 41, did to attend the November Dean meet-up in Fargo, N.D. -- to see a political candidate or a representative of his staff. They drive that far to see each other.

I attended one meeting of a handful of Dean supporters in the basement of the public library in Hooksett, N.H. It felt as much like a support group as a political rally. As they did at Clay Johnson's meet-up in Atlanta, everyone went around the circle describing what drew them to Dean, usually in very personal language.

-snip-
The official representative of the Dean campaign that night in Hooksett was Lauren Popper, a 24-year-old actress who temporarily left her boyfriend and career in New York City to work as an organizer for the Dean campaign in Manchester, N.H. She was motivated to volunteer for a weekend in part because she admired Dean's policy of having every new mother in Vermont visited by a state social worker, but she stayed for other reasons. Popper broke into tears several times while trying to explain what they were.
''The thought that he'll be president is a side effect,'' she said. ''This campaign is about allowing people to come together and tell their life stories.''
*******
Much, much, more (seven pages) at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/07/magazine/07DEAN.html

[dsc]

16. I wonder if you would find

such idiotic crap written in regards to Edwards and his decision to enter political life enlightening. It would be very easy for a 'writer' to portray Edwards as a grieving father trying to find succor for his pain instead of a man who found out what was important in life after an unspeakable tradgedy. I could see the story now but I will let you imagine it instead of writing it.

[arendt]

19. Yeah, you are shocked, shocked.... (rolls eyes)

If your eyes are just being opened, your name must be
Rip Van Winkel.

Everyone knows that the Internet gurus found the Dean
Campaign, not vice versa.

Everyone knows the Dean Campaign doesn't have a
GOP-style political-correctness police looking over the
shoulder of every activist.

Everyone knows that the Dean Campaign is about
re-creating community (which the article mentions
in such a way as to make it some latte-liberal piece
of mush) and is organizing for more than just Dr. Dean.

You don't bother to mention what well-known fact
about Dean is revealed by this article, as opposed to
what tripe the reporter has managed to wheedle out
of over-tired, under-aged, journalist-technique naive
enthusiasts. The reporter USED these interviewees.

What, pray tell, is alarming about enthusiasm, hard-work,
espirit d'corps, social awareness, and sensitivity. Perhaps
you prefer the BFEE value set of manipulation, betrayal,
selling out, and corporate whoring.

What is your problem?

arendt

[KittyWampus]

49. Everyone Knows That This Election Isn't About Electing Dean

According to him it's about "US"....

Frankly, since this is a Democratic REPUBLIC, I most certainly DO think this election is about getting a candidate into office.

A candidate who has a record of EXCELLENCE and caring about LIBERAL values.

Someone who can UNIFY our country rather than pull it apart in the process of trying to get elected.

Someone who can get on the stump and talk about their own qualifications and vision for America without trashing other candidates or telling lies about them.

Someone who has shown LEADERSHIP and a GIFT FOR DIPLOMACY... not someone who "gets in someone else's face" if they dare be critical.

That is why I support Wesley Clark.

[arendt]

53. Right, let the NYT beat up Dems, we're more interested in Dean V Clark

It isn't Dean who is dividing anyone.

In this case, its the NYT.

In other cases, its all the DLCers and DNCers who
are going to lose power if Dean wins.

I have nothing against Clark, and I object to your
inserting him into this thread. This thread is about
the NYT and the shitty work it is doing.

arendt

[KittyWampus]

64. I Was Responding To Your Specific Statements

in your previous post...

Sorry if I went off topic...

[ramapo]

4. An empty piece

I started reading the NYT Dean piece and quickly decided it wasn't worth my time. Your analysis is quite correct.

[MIMStigator]

59. The cover picture was some grungie hippie chick

article was about the youth fringe Dean attracts and won't help him

[sandnsea]

5. gossip column politics

It goes to EVERY candidate and if we don't get the media and the papers to focus on the issues NOW, they won't next year. We need to stop reacting to very quote out of context and made up controversy and stay focused on the issues. We might have a chance next year if we get the media headed in that direction now.

[dsc]

7. thank you I couldn't agree more

Some things ought not be posted here.

[arendt]

60. It ought to be posted so people tell NYT not to run this kind of junk n/t

n/t

[chimpymustgo]

8. It's not gossip, sandnsea. It's very well researched and reported.

Here's another gem - the beginning of the article:

Last February, Clay Johnson, 26, took a trip from Atlanta to the Dominican Republic to visit his girlfriend, Merrill, who was studying linguistics at a university there. He carried an engagement ring in his pocket, but when he arrived, he said, Merrill was cold and distant, and he never gave it to her. Before he left, Merrill told him that she didn't love him anymore.
Advertisement

He returned to his apartment in Atlanta, where he worked as a freelance technology consultant. His place was also serving as a storage space for Merrill's possessions, in boxes, and as a temporary home for her two cats. He was allergic to the cats. He stripped to his underwear, lay on the floor in a fetal position and remained there for days, occasionally sipping from an old carton of orange juice. ''I was completely obliterated,'' he says. ''I didn't know something like that could actually cause physical pain.''

Johnson's friends kept calling, trying to think of something that would get him out of the house. Finally they hit on one: Howard Dean.

******

The article is chock full of personal accounts of how Deanies came to the movement. It really will help you understand some of the emotion around here.

[arendt]

21. Boy are you sharp, you found "the gem" they shoved in your face. Wow!

Here comes the politics of personal destruction raised to the
level of the campaign team.

Who, except moron-minded National Enquirer readers, cares
about the personal lives of some who-knows-how-important
volunteers on the Dean Campaign? Answer: people who are
looking for anything they can get to discredit Dean.

This is classic anecdotal smearing. Find the people who put
something in the light you want it in, and screw objectivity.

I second "dsc", this is the kind of BS that got Al Gore labeled
"a pathological liar". The NYT should be called on this crap.
And the Dean Campaign should get on it right away.

arendt

[sandnsea]

43. Opinions are one thing...

Posting articles turning opinion into fact are something else entirely. I am very concerned about the "movement". I posted a reference to the dutiful contributions to Boswell as a specific example and told people to look at the blog to see what I meant. But that is JUST opinion and just my little 'ol opinion at that.

THIS POST is an article in the mainstream press that is diversionary and not beneficial in getting the focus back on the issues. As long as we post 'gossip column' articles instead of issue oriented articles, that is what the media will churn out. And we DO NOT need that next year. We can beat Bush on the issues, but not if we get caught up in gossip; like that angry Democrat ad.

Just what I think.

[salin]

66. I agree - there is a big media issue here

two weeks now, there has been a big spread in the Sunday Times on a major candidate. Two weeks now issues get light scrub. I don't know whether it is what the media 'thinks' the public wants to read and is pandering, or whether the media is being complicit to the RNC - because Bush doesn't weigh up very well on hard issues. It is very problematic for all democratic candidates.

[w4rma]

40. HOLY COW! I am in agreement with you sandnsea! (n/t)

[dsc]

9. I must admit

I don't know where to begin. If I were Sommersby I could spend days and days on just this wretched piece. But I am not so I can't. There is no taking of a few paragraphs and systematiclly debunking such wretchedly purple prose that could do this mess justice. So I will simply say this. It is beyond appalling that our political discourse is shaped by the likes of this author. This is not some cheesy, second rate, soap opera. It shouldn't be treated like one. Anyone who cares about the issues of the day, no matter who they support, should be sickened by the fact this 'writer' covers your politicians. I don't know if these stories are exaggerated or not. I don't know if these people told this 'writer' this stuff on first glance or only after long discussions. I do know there is a real story behind Dean's rise and it isn't jilted lovers. Thank God this lady doesn't build bridges. I wouldn't drive over rivers again if she did.

[DemNoir]

10. The only scary thing is...

The apparent lack of reading comprehension skills of some DU'ers. The article read carefully and taken as a whole is quite flattering of the Dean campaign.

Sadly those with demons painted on the inside of their eyelids are unable to see anything positive.

[dsc]

11. It was sort of flattering but I don't care

I don't read the NYT to find out about jilted lovers in the Presidential campaigns. I don't read the NYT to find out about the eating habits of the progamers. We have one National Enquirer isn't that enough?

[DemNoir]

13. In case you didnt notice..

The article was in the magazine section.

[dsc]

14. So what?

If you are going to cover campaigns then cover campaigns. This is the sort of thigh rubbing smut that doesn't belong in coverage of a campaign. If you wish to cover the personal lives of the candidates, that is one thing. And that would belong in the NYT. This doesn't. This is nothing short of lunacy.

[AP]

12. I agree. The NYT is worse than WP in terms of whorishness.

It just makes you wonder why they held back on this kind of story as long as they did (presuming it is negative--I haven't read it yet).

I have my theories.

I guess we'll see how Dean withstands the heat.

Either he's reached critical mass with his followers so it'll just make them angrier, and he'll go from strength to strength. Or, it will turn out that Dean is unable to define himself, and, unless the media is doing him favors, his support will slide a bit. It'll be interesting to see where we go from here.

[chimpymustgo]

18. AP, please open the link. Read the article. Draw your own conclusions.

nt

[arendt]

22. To paraphrase Jon Stewart: "you got nothing"

All you can do is breathlessly say that this hit job is
sooooo revealing of what a bad, bad, bad man Howard
Dean is.

arendt

[chimpymustgo]

24. To paraphase *: is our children and adults learning?"

I don't say anytime anywhere that the article is revealing about Dean. But it's very insightful about SOME of his supporters, and helps explain some of the emotion on this board. I think it's a must read.

[arendt]

26. My beef is with WHICH of SOME of his supporters the NYT focused on.

Since the whole article is completely anecdotal,
and since not one "normal" person is quoted at
any length, the reader is left with the IMPRESSION
that the cheap soap opera story line is somehow
representative of the Dean Campaign.

And you have bought that impression, completely.
It has made you "frankly alarmed".

Yet, you still have yet to say why you are alarmed.

For the second time, will you give some detail on
what alarms you and why you think this article is
anything but a hit job PLUS just enough nice-nice
to give it "deniability"?

arendt

[AP]

32. NYT Magazine stories ARE anecdotes. It can't NOT BE anecdotal.

Right?

What are you trying to say when you call this "anecdotal"?

[arendt]

48. I'm saying that its not factual, its propaganda, and not good for Dean

See my other posts in this thread about the subliminals of the
article.

And, note that "chimpymustgo" finds the article "alarming", but
when challenged three times can produce no reason for his
alarm.

Also note that "cogito" tries to twist my anger at the NYT into
hatred of Dean's people.

This is exactly how this kind of "oh, you didn't want me to mention
your exhibitionist ex-girlfriend" kind of pretend-praise article
works.

Look at all the confusion being sown. ChimpyMG hates it. Cogito
is busy bashing me for pointing out this hit job on Dean, even to
the point of accusing me of attacking the geeks I went to try to
work for.

If this article isn't disinformation, I don't know what is.


arendt

[AP]

51. What in it isn't "factual"?

It's focus may not help Dean. However, you should note that when Dean got a ton of coverage on being anti-war, etc., the deaniacs said it was just honest reporting of stuff that was really going on.

The mad love Dean gets from the deaniacs is also honest reporting of stuff that is really going on too.

[arendt]

54. Anecdotal means "statistically invalid"

Who knows what percentage of Dean people are as
"colorful" as those in this article.

There is absolutely no attempt to give a factual overview -
such as 90% of Dean's staff is under the age of 30, and
the average age of all Dem's staffs is 28.

Without statistical overviews, this kind of organizational
pop psychology is not factual, it is the selection bias of
the reporter.

Is that clear enough?

> The mad love Dean gets from the deaniacs is also honest reporting of stuff
> that is really going on too.

Then why isn't there any honest reporting of the "mad love" all the CEOs
have for George Bush? Why no stories about CEOs salivating for Dubya?
Why, that might make people choose up sides on the basis of simple-
minded appeals, and that would be class warfare.

This article is not objective, not factual, and not friendly. I'm just
unpacking the disinformation. Looking through the guys staff
to find the most vulnerable people in it and getting them to spill
their love lives to a cynical reporter is not political reporting, its
voyeurism.

arendt

arendt

[AP]

68. news stories aren't about statistics.

I agree that merely the choice of on what you focus your journalistic attention reveals a bias.

However, you have to admit that stories like these about Dean's supporters do reveal something interesting a bout Dean's appeal, and, which, is true. It's a story which has been implied all over the interent. Now, the NYT reporter has put real names and fact-checked back-stories to all those screen names.

[pruner]

15. it looks like most of you are missing the point…

the article is about the Dean "movement" recreating a sense of community.

all the candidate's talk about how they're gonna bring young people/new voters into the fold… Dean is doing it already.

[DemNoir]

17. At last!

Someone gets it!

[arendt]

25. No, its you who are missing the SPIN

You probably thought all the pieces about Al Gore "changing
his clothes" too much were just about fashion.

This article is pushing buttons. Its pushing buttons about
nasty, anti-social hackers who are in charge of this guys
campaign.

If the article were really about how they were bringing in
new voters, they would have GIVEN SOME DETAIL on
how that works.

They gave the detail to some hackers LOVE LIFE.

This is a hit job, with just enough cover to give them deniablility.
It is classic smear and run.

arendt

[sugargoose]

67. I agree with your analysis that it describes community

I actually really liked the article. I liked that it humanized and personalized the campaign. What Dean is doing is so much bigger than a vote this way or another on any certain issue. He's facilitating a change in the way people relate, participate, and interact. He's inspiring people to build a community where common issues can find solutions.

You can find info on Dean's positions/plans/politics all over the place. This article really highlighted the less tangible "magic" of the campaign. And it reinforced the idea that it's people powered Howard.

I guess I'm a sucker. I loved the article.

[chimpymustgo]

20. Here's the link. Again.

Let's read before we discuss?


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/07/magazine/07DEAN.html 
 

[arendt]

23. I've read it and discussed it. You haven't. Say somethiing, anything.

You refuse to discuss anything. You gave three words of your own
in four posts.

You are pushing an article that I say is a hit job. If you think otherwise,
prove it or shut up.

arendt

[chimpymustgo]

27. I have summed up my feelings about the article (see above).

Actually I also posted the article earlier, discussed it in that thread before it was locked. And posted on a thread in Politics.

The article quotes real people, who express real feelings about finding a real attachment to the Dean campaign. I have quizzically read numerous posts here at DU that insist: DEAN IS THE ONE AND YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!

The article helps me understand.

[arendt]

29. (see above)??? You said practically nothing.

I have summed up my feelings about the article (see above).

Other than <snip>ing and telling people to read it, these are
the SUM TOTAL of your entire contribution to this thread:

> The NYTimes piece was insightful, eyeopening, and frankly alarming.

> It's not gossip, sandnsea. It's very well researched and reported.

> The article is chock full of personal accounts of how Deanies came to the
> movement. It really will help you understand some of the emotion around
> here.

> I don't say anytime anywhere that the article is revealing about Dean. But it's
> very insightful about SOME of his supporters, and helps explain some of the
> emotion on this board. I think it's a must read. 

For the third time, I challenge you to say something SUBSTANTIVE
about why this article left you "frankly alarmed".

What I don't get is that you expect me to buy the smear-and-weave
act you are running.

arendt

on edit: ">" added for quotation

[JanMichael]

28. Shit. That's way more personal testimony than I ever ...

....want to read on the monitor Sunday evening. Plus the opening couple of paragraphs describe a stereotypical loser, a pathetic loser, the rest may seem like it's supportive but it ain't.

[paulk]

30. I thought it was a pretty subtle hit piece

I have my differences with Dean - but they center on policy and positions and what I feel is a lack of experience in certain areas. Why the NYT wasted seven pages on what they did was puzzling.

[Cogito]

31. I liked the piece

Look, the Dean campaign is about many people who otherwise would have felt isolated and powerless getting together to empower themselves and make a difference. Of course the phenomena is about more than the candidate, it is about connecting with other people. But that is what is BEST about the campaign.

Take a look at these threads on KOS.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/8/0236/87353
http://cogito.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/7/15420/0355

[arendt]

33. Found this on your KOS link. Guy agrees w me - the article is junk

<snip of post to KOS - mods is this legal? >
Re: The Dean Loveboat? (none / 1)
Wow, this is absolutely stunning. Let me, in the interests of brevity boil it down.

1. Exactly like every other political campaign, the extremely low pay and long hours tends to draw young single people.
2. Stunningly, these young single people mess around. This is, of course, against all human history and nature. Most young single people avoid sex in every way.
3. As part of the brotherhood of reporters, any mention that this exactly parallels the pool of reporters on the campaign trail will be studiously avoided.
4. Astoundingly, people between the ages of 18-24 do some strange thing called "breaking up" a lot. This is unlike most people in that age bracket who mate for life by 17.
5. Samantha posits breathtaking originality...computer geeks can't get dates. This meme is wholly original, and has not, I repeat not been around for decades.
6. One can always extrapolate the behhavior patterns of hundreds of thousands of people with less than ten annecdotes.
Personally, I'm waiting with anticipation for her upcoming ground breaking bit of investigative journalism. "Dog Bites Man: Dangerous New Menace".

Seriously, this has to be one of the most worthless bits of reporting I've seen in a while. You could write the same thing about the junior Rotarian society, or any other organization's younger segment.

by ElitistJohn on Mon Dec 8th, 2003 at 01:00:41 UTC

</snip>

If you liked it, then your political smear detector is BROKEN. This
is how they started in on Al Gore. "He said 'I invented the internet.' " is
what we were told over and over.

Now they are starting in "Dean's people are all freaks." Wake up and
smell the s*** in this cup of coffee.

arendt

[Cogito]

35. I think you Deanies are a tad paranoid.

What is not to like about any of those folks portrayed in that article? They are all good people trying to make a difference.

[arendt]

37. I love it. After what they did to Clinton&Gore, you think we're "paranoid"

Did you miss the last 8 years? When the media is
a bunch of whores, an article like this is not accident.
Some editor wanted the article to begin with a long
recital of one guys screwed up love life and how it
lead him to the Dean campaign. This is the hook for
the story and you think its just peachy?

How are we going to win with people as naive as you?

This article can be sent around the conservative
circuit, with the classic line:

"we got this info from the NYT, so you liberals can't deny it."

And to us dittoheads, this is proof that the Dean campaign
is a bunch of unhealthy, hacker, free love people.

Go read "The Hunting of the President" and tell me I'm
paranoid.

arendt

[Cogito]

39. How are we going to win?

Look, if you want to win the election you should get another candidate. The Dean campaign is about more than this election as his followers tell you. Nevertheless, I absolutely admire the hell out of those folks working their tails off for Dean. I think it is really incredible the way Dean is harnessing what you worry people will call the "unhealthy, hacker, free love people." I can't believe the contempt you seem to have for those kids or that you think others will hold them in contempt. What the f**k is that about?

[w4rma]

41. "supporters", Cogito. Unless you'd like me to refer to you as a

Clark follower, also.

[Cogito]

46. I make no secret of supporting Clark

Maybe I respond the way I do because I don't give Dean a chance of winning the election anyway, but my honest reaction to the piece was that it reminded me of what I liked best about the Dean campaign--those wacky hacker geeky kids inspired to try and develop the technology to make America a better place. I would be more than honored to have such types working on the Clark campaign. As for whether the Times used the kids. There is absolutely nothing in those accounts that any one of those kids should be ashamed of. You know, I don't even think that most of America will think any worse of those kids than they think of a geeky Bill Gates or undergrads at Caltech focused on uncovering the building blocks of the universe. Geeks are heros these days.

[arendt]

42. You are seriously confused about what I'm saying

> I can't believe the contempt you seem to have for those kids
> or that you think others will hold them in contempt.
> What the f**k is that about?

I have no problems at all with those kids. I went up to the Dean
tech center in Manchester to volunteer, and decided that I wasn't
good enough for their team. I respect their technical skills immensely.

And, I have no problem with their typical 20 something lives
in the world of tech as Bush sends their future careers to India.
I like these kids.

My problem is with the way they were represented, and how
that WILL NOT "play in Peoria" or in Perdanales, or any other
place in rural, Bible-belting America.

I will repeat. The article USED those kids.

> Look, if you want to win the election you should get another candidate.

Ah, finally, some truth. You want his people, his organization,
but not him.

And, you don't seem to respond about Subliminal techniques.
In the very first sentence, they get in that this guy had a girlfriend
from the Dominican Republic. Let's see, before we mention
anything else, make sure to put this guy's loyalties outside the
U.S.

If this is all so innocent, then why did "chimpymustgo" say he
found the article "frankly alarming"?

If they ran this article about Clark, or Kerry, or anyone but Holy
Joe, I would say the same thing. This is a "dirty em up" by association
hit job.

You refuse to address all the points in that direction that I have
raised. You simply repeat the good points in the article. My issue
is not with the good points. Its with the whole slant.

arendt

[Cogito]

50. The article used those kids.

I disagree. The article fairly portrayed one aspect of the Dean campaign--the emphasis on connecting people with each other and on people really wanting to be connected. I didn't think less of them for what they were doing.

Still, I grant that the article might be alienating to key blocks of swing voters. But I confess to being alienated by stories of GOP jungen who all look like little Ralph Reeds and serving as the volunteers for the GOP. That never seemed to stop the GOP.

[arendt]

58. Okay, I can agree to disagree on this point,...

so long as you acknowledge that the article can be used.

What follows may be in poor taste, so apologies in advance
if it offends.

As a Clark supporter, I wonder how you would feel if
a reporter went over to Kosovo and interviewed people
who said that (totally hypothetical example - no flame, please)
General Clark was their good buddy because he helped them
kill lots of dirty rotten Serbian war criminals without any trials.

I would take your POV (not a Clark supporter, but liked his
organization) and say (hypothetically) that killing Serbians
criminals was our policy and was a good thing. You would say,
but I don't want my candidate associated with that kind of thing,
even if it was policy and even if it was true. And I would say,
but your candidate is a military man, everyone knows it. He
has to own up to these people liking him for what he did.

I'm not a pro at smearing, but I think you get the idea.

Just wonder how you would FEEL? Not how you would ARGUE
back; how you would FEEL. That means you don't get to accuse
me of comparing Dean's geeks to Kosovar guerilla killers. That's
how Karl Rove would do it.

arendt

[Cogito]

34. Deanlink is about connecting people

I think the NY Times piece actually uncovers something pretty important about the Dean Internet campaign. They mean to leverage the desire of people to connect with those who share their interests for the purposes of their campaign.

Check out http://deanlink.deanforamerica.com/
Look at the pictures along the side talking about how many "introductions" each person has made then compare to this singles dating page:
http://personals.centerstage.net/

The Deanlink page even looks like a dating page in a way. I don't have a problem with this at all by the way. I think it is part of the genius of the Dean campaign.

[arendt]

36. Are you totally insensitive to the SUBLIMINALS in this article?

Internet geeks become hackers - BAD to many of today's voters

Geeks are like freeks(1960s hippies) - BAD to older voters

People with unusual work habits and lives - NOT NORMAL

Its the atmosphere that is being conveyed, and the atmosphere
is at best overheated, at worst unhealthy.

And, as the KOS post said, the article is SOPHOMORIC. Its not
good press, its banal press. The whole tone given of the Dean
operation is seedy, dirty, people sleeping anywhere, eating
anything, looking for love in all the wrong places. The article
is CONDESCENDING - oh these deluded Deanites, sick folks
who have found another temporary fix for their screwed up lives.

Do you deny that undercurrent runs throughout the article?

arendt

[Cogito]

38. What can I say?

The Dean campaign IS a collection of the usual suspects on the left and many others. They are good people even if they don't look like the folks at the Lutheran church supper. Why aren't you proud of those people who were profiled? For gosh sakes those folks are working their butts off on your behalf and you call them freaks, geeks, hippies and,,,gasp,...abnormal. If you are worried that key blocks of voters are going to be turned off by those images ...you are right. But the point, I thought, of Dean is that his campaign doesn't care whether folks are offended or not. He is going to focus on the issues and convince the unwashed masses to put aside their stupid prejudices and vote in their self-interest for once. I don't think Dean has a chance in hell of winning on that strategy but, as many of his supporters say in the article, the campaign is about more than winning or losing the election.

[arendt]

45. You could say that the article was a hit-job.

>> Why aren't you proud of those people who were profiled?

This was in the first response I posted to chimpymustgo:

> What, pray tell, is alarming about enthusiasm, hard-work,
> espirit d'corps, social awareness, and sensitivity.

My feeling is that these kids are vulnerable and have been
exploited. I am proud of what they accomplished, but I don't
need to smell their B.O. The focus of the article is all wrong.

Why are you attacking me for attacking the NYT?

I said nothing bad about Dean's people. I have a bone to
pick with professional journalists who definitely know what
they are doing with these kinds of atmospherics.

And, what is with attacking me for attacking Dean and then
telling me to "get another candidate"? Dean is my candidate.

This whole exchange is getting completely distorted. Are
you for or against Dean?

> ...the point, I thought, of Dean is that his campaign doesn't care
> whether folks are offended or not.

Dean doesn't care if WHAT HE SAYS offends people or not. I
don't think he extends that to any volunteer who might want to
say he works for Dean. That leaves him wide open to being
set up. Or, do you think Karl Rove of the (lets mail a videotape
to Al Gore's campaign) is beneath setting up his opponents?

> I don't think Dean has a chance in hell of winning on that strategy

That's because you don't want him to win.

I think we've completed this discussion.

arendt

[w4rma]

44. I think that Cogito not only is sensitive to the subliminals but is trying

to push them. :shrug:

[arendt]

47. That's my conclusion, too. n/t

n/t

[Cogito]

52. That is paranoid

If you were to take a snapshot of the reading audience of DU or Kos my bet is that those kids in the article look every bit as mainstream or more. Just who here is going to be turned off to Dean because of that article?

I honestly liked the piece and wrote my "I love the Dean campaign" diary entry at Kos inspired by the article. http://cogito.dailykos.com/story/2003/12/7/15420/0355
go read it if you think I was not being sincere.

[arendt]

56. No, its called living through Nixon, Iran Contra, and Clinton

I'm an old and increasingly cynical observer of what passes
for honest politics in this used-to-be-free country.

I did read your KOS post.

I applaud you for appreciating what the Dean campaign has
done; I do not criticize you for supporting Clark.

But I think you are amazingly naive in your appreciation of
what the sharks at the NYT and their ilk can do to totally warp
the public perception of candidates.

As I said, I would have complained if they had done this to
any Dem candidate. Its the beginning of the subtle digs campaign.
For example, it was true (factual, if you must) that Al Gore paid
some feminist consultant to advise him. And, people hire all
kinds of consultants for all kinds of reasons.

Yet the NYT and others chose to hammer Al, not for what advice
the consultant gave him, but rather, for the fact that he had dared
to hire a feminist consultant. They pulled out all the stereotypes
about Al not being an "alpha dog".

The media has been the private property of the GOP since at
least 1996. The best we can do is keep them from telling lies
and the kinds of spins (like this) that set up later lies.

> Just who here is going to be turned off to Dean because of that article?

Well, "chimpymustgo" for one :-).

But, as in the example I just gave; its not its effect on Dems, it is
its usefulness for smearing Dems with potential GOP voters.
Did you care if Al Gore used a feminist adviser? I doubt it.
But it was part of Rush Limbaugh's non-stop hatchet job, and
it was repeated, and it did damage.

I will stop now. If you still think I'm paranoid, nothing else I can
say will change your mind.

arendt

[Cogito]

61. How the article hurts Dean.

I think the worst thing, by far, about that article was the cover photo of the Dean supporter. An ernest woman, no makeup, grungy clothes wearing clogs. She could be a mascot for the Birkenstock Vermont liberal. The problem Dean has is that he is going to be portrayed as the next McGovern with legions of idealistic young supporters and labor looking to give peace and love a chance. That is the GOP program. I think the article reinforces that idea in some respects but not others. The problem is the one you identify. Key voting blocks are going to simply dismiss Dean without ever giving him a chance to be heard. Expect to see more of this. Much, much more.

[arendt]

62. Thank you. That simple admission was all I was looking for.

I expect to see a lot of it.

And I expect to point out to people that the NYT, nor any
of the mainstream media, is friendly at all to the Democrats.

So be very careful of what articles, reporters, and organizations
you say you like, because you can expect them to whore for
Bush all next year regardless of who wins the Dem nomination.

So, in closing, let me say that I would support any Dem nominee
except Holy Joe, and work as hard as the Deaniacs because
this is our last chance.

Let's not leave this as disagreement. Let's just call it a fair fight
among honorable people. And let's continue to keep our eyes
on dumping Bush, but not forget to watch for Rove's booby traps
everywhere.

arendt

[mitchum]

55. Nice to see an article profiling those hard-working young people

They truly are the future of our country. Go kids!

[arewethereyet]

57. serious reporting !

I almost fell out my chair !

you'll get more serious reporting at the post

[Egnever]

63. WaaaaaaAAA?

you think it was a bad piece on Dean?

Thats really wierd I thought it was great! Inspiring even. Hell I sent it out to friends to read it.

People are doing extrodinary things for this campaign and through that work are meeting extrodinary people and making lots of personal connections in the meantime. What in the world is wrong with any of that?

:shrug: I dont get it

[slinkerwink]

65. me either

and I liked the NYT piece.