Do you notice how, as the Dems become more passionate...

[TruthIsAll]

in their criticism of Bush and the Repugs, that they sound more and more liberal?

There should be a message in this to all those DINOs who think Liberalism is a dirty word and can't win elections.

Priority number One. Remove the Repuke stigma. Frame the debate. This campaign is about Liberals vs. Fascists.

JFK was a liberal. So was Jefferson. So was Washington. So was Lincoln. So was MLK. So was RFK. So was Wellstone. So was FDR.

Good company. The kind that wins elections.

Say it LOUD! I'M LIBERAL AND I'M PROUD!

Back. To the Left. Back. To the Left.

[vi5]

1. What recent elections has it won?

I wish it were true but I've seen no evidence that any hardcore, unabashed liberals have won any major, national elections recently.

I am liberal and proud, but I'm also realistic enough to recognize that the bulk of the country does not think the way I do. They may agree with me on certain issues such as healthcare and education, but by and large I'm not so naive to admit that barring certain, very specific areas of the country, that most people aren't hardcore liberals and that it is hard to win an election as one.

[TruthIsAll]

2. This is NOT a normal election. A liberal is anyone to the left of Bush.

Which means: just about everybody.

Are you against the war? You are a liberal.
Are you for full employment? You are a liberal.
Are you for Universal Health Care? You are a liberal.
Are you against BushCo Fascism? You are a liberal.
Are you for veteran benefits? You are a liberal.
Are you for clean elections? You are a liberal.
Are you for Social Security? You are a liberal.
Are you for Medicare? You are a liberal.
Are you for better roads? You are a liberal.
Are you for more cops? You are a liberal.
Are you for more civil services? You are a liberal.
Are you for the Constitutional rights? You are a liberal.
Are you for equal rights? You are a liberal.


Don't tell me there are no liberals in Wichita.

[vi5]

6. That didn't really answer my question....

The only thing I took issue with is the notion that "this is what wins elections" meaning politicians sounding and acting more liberal.

Believe me, I want to see this more than anyone, and I'm sure there are liberals in every state, city, and town.

But I'm still waiting for someone to point out other than Wellstone, an unabashedly liberal politician who "wins elections" running as an unabashed liberal.

[Q]

3. It's strange how this generation of armchair politicians...

...think everything is about 'winning'. The Bush* presidency* is supported by millions of Americans who subscribe to the thinking of " I got mine so fuck off".

- Sacrificing your principles isn't 'realistic'....it's a sellout. And I'm not so sure you know how the 'bulk' of Americans believe...since the death of the free press also meant the demise of the truth.

[vi5]

4. Didn't the original post say "this is what wins elections"?

That's what I was addressing. I haven't sold out anything, nor do I plan to. I just also haven't seen many uncompromising liberal politicans winning elections. If you have an example that proves the contrary, by all means I would be heartened to see it.

[library_max]

8. Politics is the art of the possible.

That means compromise. If compromise means "sacrificing your principles," then politics is sacrificing your principles. Nobody ever gets everything they want. But you don't get anything at all unless you can get your candidates elected. That's politics.

[RainDog]

12. Framing the debate

it seems that most Americans want decent public schools and affordable and good health care for all, not just the rich, and the ability to send their children to college, and do not want social security dismantled, and the recent outcry against the loosening of FCC rules demonstrates, I think, that Americans do not want crazed deregulation...

the problem is that repukes have made a concerted effort, which is documented, to smear and distort "liberals."

but if you poll Americans on what they want from their govt, they want the things that liberals want, by and large.

however, they also make a disconnect between wanting those things and paying for them.

yet, there is also some recognition of the usefulness of taxes for certain issues...and also a distrust of porky politics when it's the other person getting the pork.

Dems need to use graph charts to show the unfair distribution of tax burden vs wealth, for instance, and use that to tell voters to demand, at the voting booth, politicians who will bring fairness back to America and to undo the harm that the Bushies have done to the core values of Americans.

I realize this is difficult when you've got rich media whores who also work to lie about the issues by the way they are framed, but the dems aren't stupid.

they can reach Americans, as Howard Dean has shown.

They have to give up their whoredom to corporate interests alone to do this, however.

It's their decision to make.

They have a more difficult issue now, too, in redistricting.

The repukes have launched yet another war on the American electorate by gerrymandering districts to take control of Congress to enact legislation that the majority does not support.

The problem with most Americans that I've heard is that they think all politicians are equally corrupt and in league to screw them over.

repukes play to that and lie about their own goals by their "no tax" b.s. which actually hurts people who are mad...because they're also the ones who are not filthy rich. irony of irony in this country that the nascar crowd is in the repuke camp for the most part, because they continually vote against their own best interests.

[morningglory]

5. Just heard results of a poll where 6 to 1 were against Jeb Bush's

order to keep the lady here in Florida on life support. That 1 person is the religious extremist who believes in the death penalty and is against abortion rights, and that ignorant moran is running/ruining our country. Time to take our country back, indeed. If we get our country back, the first thing that should be done is to get the elections on Saturday. Most Democrats are at work during the week, while patriotic management types waddle down to the polls during a long lunch to vote pro-corporation. Yes, I am angry.

[unfrigginreal]

7. Keep the labels, I'll take the policies

I was proud of the speech that Gov. Dean gave today in South Carolina, truly a liberal speech. I suspect that if he had embraced the liberal label, that the mainstream press tried to put on him at the beginning of this campaign, then he wouldn't be the success that he is today. That would mean that he'd be reaching fewer people with the same message.

It's just a plain fact that the word liberal has been demonized so much by the right that many will automatically tune out anyone that claims to be one. It's not just DINO's that think that the word Liberalism could cost us elections.

[maggrwaggr]

9. what's pathetic is the Dem party let the right make liberal a bad word

The Dem party leaders have let us down big time over the last twenty years or so, ever since Reagan.

We need 100% new leadership.

We need to take back our own words.

If you disagree, look at this site and see how Newt and gang made a concerted effort to make "liberal" as well as many other words, deeply negative.

http://www.littlepiggy.net/advertising/newt.php

[Guaranteed]

10. But, you know it's been a "bad word"

for a looong time...

I remember an SNL with Matthew Modine with a sketch-show called "The Liberal" where Modine was getting chased around town, trying to hide, by right-wingers....it was kind of like "The Fugitive."

But, yeah, you're right. We need to take our words back.

Similarly, I think we need to take the flag back. It's been wrapped around the policies of fascists for far too long.

I also think that we ought to retool our platform. I think there are a couple of issues, in particular, that we put far too much emphasis on, and, while we meant well, we alienated a lot of people.

[camero]

11. Fascist, Fascist, They are Fascists

Say it loud enough, long enough and hard enough so that people get the message that that is what the Bushie Neo-Cons are.

And make Repub a dirty word. Because they are fascist.

[ConsAreLiars]

13. Only one quibble

Don't call them "repukes." That expresses our distaste but does little more. Call them what they are: "Cons" who can never be trusted in anything except at great peril. They will lie, cheat, steal and destroy everything in order to profit.

(edit the inevitable typo.)