For those against guaranteed health care, a question: a friend has cancer

[liberalhistorian]

Just diagnosed Friday afternoon, a very aggressive form that needs equally aggressive treatment. She's my age (38, I've known her since eighth grade), a wife and a wonderful stay-at-home mother to her four young children. Her husband works for a home improvement/construction company, and also does independent contractor work on the side. While his company offers health insurance, and his wife and family are covered, the insurance isn't enough for the kind of treatment needed and the doctor and hospital aren't sure she can get it without a lot of the money up front.

They've worked very hard to get and maintain the house and assets they have now, and to give their children a good life. They're terrified of losing everything and deeply resentful and bitter that the medical establishment's focus appears to be more on money than helping her beat this damned #%$&#%*@#^%*#^ cancer and the damned #@$$@#%@#$@#%#$% cancer cells that may possibly leave her young children motherless.

These are good people who work hard and who have never taken more than their share of anything or "mooched" off of anyone. Yet, there are plenty of people, yes, even on this board (I know, because I met them through their bullshit posts on my thread about my uncle dying of cancer and being harassed by the fucking pond-scum low-life bottom-feeding medical debt collectrolls), who don't believe that she should have the treatment necessary to save her life if she and her husband can't afford it, because otherwise they would just be a drain on everyone else and why should everyone else have to pay for it?

So, I want those of you who feel that way to tell me: Why should this family, instead of focusing on their wife and mother getting well, fear the very real possiblity of losing their house and everything else they've worked so hard for because she has breast cancer and needs aggressive treatment that her insurance won't fully cover, and may not even cover much, for that matter? Why should the doctors and hospitals, etc., care more (in some cases ONLY) about the money involved, instead of getting her well? WHY SHOULD THE FUCKING MONEY BE OF ANY CONCERN AT ALL RIGHT NOW, ANYWAY?

And please tell me, if you even can, why she should die because her family can't afford the full treatment and that's just tough luck? And, please tell me what you would tell her four young children as to why their mother may not be there with them as they grow up, how you would explain that her life wasn't worthy enough to save, because she didn't have the fucking money, and how you would explain that those with money are more important and, therefore, it's just tough luck that your mother wasn't one of them?

And if I sound angry and bitter, it's because I am. I've already dealt with the cancer of my best friend, who's only alive now, and she fully, freely, and angrily admits it, because her family had plenty of the green stuff to get her the treatment she needed and that she wouldn't have gotten had they not had it. And I'm already dealing with my uncle going through this shit right now as well. I simply cannot believe that a friend my age has breast cancer, even though I know that, statistically speaking, women my age are getting it with far more frequency than ever before. She is just the sweetest, nicest person in the world, and it just makes me sick that our health care system doesn't give a damn about her unless she has money.

[childslibrarian]

1. You are right

There are so many reasons why you are right. I hope your good friend is okay.

[kiahzero]

2. I completely agree with you

My personal story isn't quite as severe: I have Crohn's disease, which normally isn't fatal. I do, however, need IV infusions every 8 weeks to maintain my health, as well as several prescriptions. The IV infusions alone cost $8,000... fortunately, I've got a good insurance plan for now.

Should my insurance ever lapse, I'm screwed - I'll have a "pre-existing condition", and no insurance company will want to touch me with a ten foot pole.

[JanMichael]

6. Yes. You are at risk should your insurance company fold...

...or simply decide that you are not worth "their" money anymore. Worse yet it may simply become to expensive for you, or your employer, to pay...

Yes. We need National HC. Best of luck:-)

[liberalhistorian]

10. Yes, that is indeed true,

and that's yet one more reason, of the many thousands of reasons, why I'm so furious with and disgusted by the current "health" system. That whole "pre-existing condition" nonsense is nothing more than the repuke insurance companies attempting to justify keeping even more money for themselves, with the help of the repukes in charge of the legislation governing them.

[NJCher]

3. I'm really sorry to hear this, liberalhistorian

The fact of the matter is, this is a sick country with sick values. Living here is dangerous because there is no health insurance or safety net.


Cher

[JanMichael]

4. Well I'm for putting People over Profit. ie. Single Payer HC.

Period. No incremental bullshit, or HMO payoffs. Fuck all the pond scum sucking dollar devils.

My uncle died two months ago in a similarly horrific situation.

Frankly I have littel but contempt for the people that continue to push social dollar darwinism in 2003.

[liberalhistorian]

15. And 99 percent of the time,

those who are pushing the "social darwin dollar" system are those who've never had to worry a day in their life about money because they were, more often than not, born with silver spoons in their mouths.

[dsc]

5. Great post

please edit the cuss words out though. They will remove it if you don't and that would be sad. I wish your friend well and hope that my comments in the lounge as to Ohio programs were of some help.

[liberalhistorian]

11. Yes, they were very

helpful, and I really appreciated the assistance!

[dsc]

13. glad to be of assistance

Passport may have been Taft's sole good idea.

[Nikia]

7. That's horrible

I find it sad that people who cannot pay are left to die, especially people who potentially have a lot of life left if they are treated. It is horrible that the hospital need a lot of money upfront before they'll treat her. What does one value more than one's own life? That is why healthcare should not be a profit making venture. I am for guarenteed healthcare though.

[camero]

8. I feel so bad for you

You've been through more stuff than I have. I just recently had to go visit an old friend of mine who has Non-Hodgkins Lymphoma. He's lucky in that his insurance is covering it fully. He just turned 32 and is a childhood friend.

A single payer system is the answer. I guess these people wouldn't mind the police not coming to protect thier life and property if the police were privatized. Or the fire department.

[liberalhistorian]

14. That's a great point that

I hadn't even thought of before. I fear it's only a matter of time before there are, indeed, serious attempts to do just that, privatize such services.

[camero]

28. Here is why health care is a right

Our government only guarantees one of these and doesn't do a very good job of that. Screwy RWers.


http://www.deepermind.com/20maslow.htm

Sleep, safety, food, shelter

Body Needs -medical, emergency, rescue, coping
Security Needs -safety planning, food supplies, shelter requirements, emergency supplies
Social -social self help, finding love, how to escape bad feelings and alienation, how to achieve a sense of belonging

Now it's not govs. job to help us find a mate, but I think the last applies to mental illness.

[camero]

30. And the UN charter states it.

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Article 25

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Yes, it's a human right.

[Postman]

9. I'm sorry,...You and I know what is responsible for the ideology that

permeates our society. Rightwing ideology, that everything must be privatized, that anything done by the government (aka the people) is a threat to the capitalist-private system for fear that it may be a major success and act as an example to the rest of society and might actually raise questions that need to be answered about a healthcare system based in capitalism.

[bluestateguy]

12. If you want answers to your question I would post this over at FR

Not many people here are opposed to universal coverage. I favor a Canadian style single payer system, but I don't think it would sell politically unless it was done incrementally.

[JanMichael]

16. Oh! There are plenty here at DU that hate the idea of National HC.

Plenty. It's Sunday evening, many are probably drunk right now so that would explain the absence of anti-Canada/French/Scandinavin/British Healthcare bullshit that I've seen here at least a hundred times.

[liberalhistorian]

20. Exactly, and those

are the DUers I meant, and how much you wanna bet that they all have excellent coverage and/or the deep pockets required to handle any medical need they or a family member may have?

[liberalhistorian]

17. I know that there aren't many people

here opposed to it, but there were some who've posted on my thread and other threads, and I find it very interesting that none of them have shown up here yet.

And I used to believe that Americans wouldn't go for a Canadian-style system, but with so many more getting screwed like this, especially the middle class, I think that may be starting to change.

[radwriter0555]

18. I STRONGLY recommend that they immediately consult a financial

planner and tax accountant. While health care issues are indeed paramount, protecting their assets RIGHT NOW is so very critical.

I can recommend an amazing woman who will consult with them for a modest fee, and assist them in setting up the best possible financial scenario for their future while dealing with this potentially financially catastrophic issue.

Equally as important in dealing with her health issues is protecting their family's financial future. Clear heads must prevail, especially when the medical bills start piling up.

One such possibility is right NOW, setting up their finances so that when her medical treatment is done, they declare bankruptcy while having planned ahead to protect specific assets.

Given the situation the greedy thugs in the US government have put us in over medical care, this is not an unreasonable possibility, nor is it morally wrong.

Send me an email if your friends want my advisor's contact info. She is brilliant and will save them from financial ruin.

[liberalhistorian]

21. Thanks, rad, I'll

talk to them about it, I appreciate the help!

[Lefta Dissenter]

19. I am so incredibly sorry about your friend.

The insurance companies and medical community can be so horrendous.

A week after my son graduated from high school, he was diagnosed with cancer. He had to have surgery and then start chemo.

Well, you guessed it, because he was undergoing chemo, he was too sick to start college in September (and his doctor prohibited it), so our insurance company said he was ineligible on our policy (no longer a full-time student, donchaknow). So as of his high-school graduation date, he was on his own.

I was shocked, to say the least. The patient advocate at the hospital helped us to get the paperwork going for Cobra, which cost almost $400/month - plus we had enormous co-pays that we had to cover. I simply couldn't believe that at the time that we were suffering the agony of our son having cancer, we were kicked while we were down and had to face this uncertainty and the financial blow. I felt so overwhelmed just with the decision-making that I can now see why some people simply give up.

MANY times since then, I have speculated as to what we would have done if we simply had not had the resources to pay for the COBRA or the co-pays. Or if our son had been on his own, and had had to manage it on his own. It goes against everything I believe in to think that someone could die, just for lack of the few hundred bucks to pay a premium. And I know that it happens all the time.

This summer I'll be looking for an insurance policy for him because he's graduating from college. How successful do you think we'll be with that little venture?

In a country with such wealth of knowlege, financial resources, and, supposedly compassion, this is a travesty.

(sorry if this is a rambling post, this subject hits a raw nerve with me)

[liberalhistorian]

22. Travestly doesn't even begin to

describe your situation, and I'm so glad your son beat that damn cancer and is a survivor. Yes, it's amazing, isn't it, that, at a time when you should be focusing on your health or the health of the sick family member, all the medical community gives a damn about is the money. And to those of you who will attempt to defend it, I say to you now to not even bother. There IS NO DEFENSE AND NO EXCUSE! These are people's lives on the line here, not library books, for God's sake!

And insurance companies make it so much worse, as well, because if you've got any kind of illness in your background, they'll find a way to deny a policy and then what are you supposed to do?

[SheilaT]

23. This is the ONLY

industrialized country without a national health care system. The claim that we have the best health care in the world is utter nonsense. There are far too many people like your friend out there. I do not understand why otherwise sensible, good people think it's okay for people not to have health insurance, not to be able to afford the medicine they need.

Another good reason to consider moving to another country.

[liberalhistorian]

25. Oh, we can, indeed, have the best

health care, all right, FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT! THAT is the main difference. I'm near Cleveland, and the Cleveland Clinic is considered one of the best hospitals in the entire world.

But walk just a couple of blocks away from "the campus", as it's called (it's made up of many buildings), and you'll be in a neighborhood where the residents will never see the inside of any of the Clinic buildings unless they're a research subject or dead. I had an appointment there once, and for an entire week beforehand, almost every day, someone was calling from there to "verify that I had insurance and verify my insurance information", because I couldn't have the appointment unless I had coverage.

[Selwynn]

24. Who the hell here is AGAINST garunteed health care?

[liberalhistorian]

26. Oh, I can PM you some names if

you really want them! They're here, all right. And I find their total absence from this thread to be quite fascinating.

[whathappened]

27. so sorry

about what this is doing to this family , it is the same all over , my sisters boy of 45 has liver canser and was going to the cancer center in ill. , but all of a sudden well treatment was on going they called him at home and said you need not bother to come up for your next treatment , cause all you have is medicare and your states medicaid and they will not paid our bill cause you are being treated out of your state , so now he is home wondering what the heck he is going to do now , his cancer is still growing and his home town doctors already have told him there was no help for him , this is why he went to ill. so yes we feel for you and all the others out there who have no help in there walk thru life cause they have not reaped the big harvest of money that makes this world go round

[liberalhistorian]

33. And yet, many of these

same medical centers, such as the one your nephew was going to, gladly treat children and adults from foreign, usually third world, countries FOR FREE without blinking an eye. And I'm wondering where in the hell doctors keep their hippocratic oath nowadays, because many of them, the profit-before-people types (and there are way too many of those) sure as hell ain't living up to it at all!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. You'll get no argument from me

There are all these "horror stories" in the U.S. press about "socialized medicine," but the people I know who have actually experienced it are uniformly positive.

I am without health insurance for the time being, and so is another Twin Cities DUer that I know of. As I look at the health plans available to me (self-employed and over fifty) they're all terrible. No matter which plan I choose, I end up paying at least $3500 out of pocket before getting any benefits at all, and then most of them pay only 80%.

[Timefortruth]

31. Where are the Right to Lifers?

Oh yeah, the life in question is born. Life is only valuable before it's born.

[liberalhistorian]

36. LOL!

That would, indeed, appear to be the way they think!

[Cleita]

32. First I am so sorry to hear this.

Next they need to do what is necessary to get her care and to keep them from bankruptcy. You didn't mention what kind of medical coverage she has if any. There are social workers out there with charitable organizations who are miracle workers in putting people like your friend in touch with the people and organizations that can help them and coordinating the whole thing.

I know because social workers at a hospital after a referral from my husband's doctor were able to pull together a plan to get my husband the critical health care he needed for his kidney failure without us going broke trying to pay for it.

There are free services out there to get your friend started on a plan.

[welshTerrier2]

34. Hope This Helps

Sorry to hear about your friend ... i hope she can get treatment and that her treatment goes well ...

I don't know much about the money / insurance side of the problem you raised ...

But I would like to strongly recommend that your friend contact the National Cancer Institute for advice about treatment ... they are a fantastic resource.

Their website is: http://cancer.gov/cancerinformation or you can contact them by phone and speak to an expert at: 800-4-cancer. and, it's a free service ...

Good luck ...

[liberalhistorian]

35. Thank you,

I will definitely check into it for them!

[Lefta Dissenter]

39. I SECOND THAT!

The Cancer Institute provided an amazing resource for us when we were going through it. Very knowledgable about stage/treatment/etc. and very compassionate, as well. Even if you just want a reassuring shoulder to cry on, they're there.

[spooky3]

37. would it be worth talking to an attorney about

writing a letter insisting on coverage by her insurance? The doctor will surely help her write it. Sometimes if you show you are going to fight them, they will give in.

[liberalhistorian]

38. I did, indeed, think of that

since I'm a paralegal for a solo attorney, I'll talk to my boss about it tomorrow, that's for sure!

[OneBlueSky]

40. in this, the richest nation in the history of the world . . .

there is no reason why everyone should not have full medical and drug coverage with modest co-pays scaled to their own financial situations . . . it's just a matter of priorities . . . and right now, our priorities seem to be guns and missiles and battleships and mines and nukes and space weapons and the like . . . after all, these kinds of things provide such great benefits for so many . . . how could we even consider, say, halving the defense budget to pay for health care for poor and middle class people who are obviously that way because of their own lack of initiative? . . . I mean, think about it, and you'll understand that our priorities are based on the simple fact that we, as Americans, value death so much more than we value life . . . that's what makes us such a great country, don'tcha know . . .

[liberalhistorian]

41. Our priorities as a nation are, indeed,

incredibly, unbelievably, skewed. And health care is getting so expensive now that even the basics are becoming difficult for many people to afford, no matter how hard they work.

[sandnsea]

42. Health Care, not just access

Kucinch is guaranteeing health CARE to all. Everybody else has some form of ACCESS or other. Important to recognize the difference.

This is where I get upset that Kucinich sells himself as an idealist. Living isn't idealism, it's realism. We'll have to do this sooner or later, we ought to just face it.

[liberalhistorian]

43. Good point,

I hadn't recognized that before.

[LWolf]

48. We ought to embrace it.

Not just face it.

Health care should be an inalienable right. Not a privelege or a benefit.

[Yupster]

44. Single Payer only way

But that won't be the end of the problems. As life becomes longer and longer, health care will be needed more and more of course. It will call for hard choices in the future, but that's another reason we should all be under the same system.

[SoCalDem]

45. I am so sorry to hear about your young friend

I too have had this hit close friends.. One died on her 36th birthday , and another at 41..

Please have her/them be very aggressive about this.. It's the most vicious battle they can ever fight.. Have them see if she can get into a "study" at a teaching hospital if there is one near her..

Another friend with a terminal kidney disease was able to pressure Kaiser into sending her to Mayo clinic to get the state of the art treatment she needed..

It's so damned hard to fight when you are at your lowest in energy and enthusiasm, but they MUST do it..

They should also go to the local media and see if they can help.. A young mother should certainly be worthy of coverage necessary to get her the care she needs..

Regardless of what they are told, in most states they cannot "take your house".. You might not be able to afford to keep it, but I have never heard of a hospital taking anyone's home.. That sounds like bullshit scare tactics..

and.. as long as you pay the hospital SOMETHING every month, they cannot sue you....

Fingers crossed for your friend :)

[liberalhistorian]

47. That simply is NOT true about

hospitals and clinics not being able to take someone's home. Often, especially in regards to uninsured patients, they will put a judgment lien on your home, then attempt to force payment by filing a foreclosure action or other lawsuit, which is, disgustingly enough, perfectly legal. I'm a real estate paralegal, and believe you me, I have seen it happen first-hand. That's particularly true where treatment for serious or chronic illnesses are concerned, where the bills pile up very quickly.

And many hospitals will, indeed, sue you even if you're paying a certain amount a month, and that, too, is legal. They will attempt to get whatever assets you may have, they have your social security number and they will run an assets check on you. Again, I've seen it first-hand.

[DemBones DemBones]

46. Here's a strategy you could try, as it has worked before.

The story:

When I was on the faculty of a small college affiliated with a large Christian denomination, I became friends with another woman on the faculty, who told me this story. A few years earlier, she had been the advisor for international students. One of her advisees, a student from a poor, Spanish-speaking country, was diagnosed with a brain tumor. My friend went to the powers that be at the college and asked for help for this student, who had no money, no insurance. She was turned down because the student is a Catholic. (And people question whether anti-Catholicism exists!) The situation looked very bad.

Fast forward a bit, and my friend was in Atlanta one afternoon, having driven the student there to look into getting financial help of some sort. While the student was at her appointment, my friend went into a bookstore across from Emory University Clinics/Hospital. In the bookstore, she noticed a man wearing a white coat with an Emory logo on it. Normally, my friend would never do something like this but, worried about the student, she just walked up to the man and said, "Excuse me, sir, are you by any chance a brain surgeon?"

What makes this a great story, of course, is that he was a brain surgeon. He actually specialized in removing the particular type of tumor the student had, and, after being told of her financial situation, he immediately offered to do her surgery at no charge. I think she had to pay something for the hospital, but i don't remember all the details. This was at least twenty years ago, and the student, who still lives here, has remained healthy. I often see her at church.

Now, my friend had NO idea of doing this until she saw the man in the white coat and when she went up to him she was just hoping for some information that might help the student (and basically grasping at straws.) But if you've got the nerve, perhaps you should go hang around the Cleveland Clinic and look for a doctor who appears compassionate and approachable. It's worked at least once!

I also suggest trying religious resources. If your neighbor belongs to a church, they should try them first, but I'd try every religious charity in town. I know that Catholic charities will help non-Catholics and I'm sure they're not the only ones who help people outside their own flock. There are people who want to help; you just have to find them. And a number of "small" contributions can add up, if that's how it has to be. It being Christmas time should help, since many people, whether involved with organized religion or not, focus on helping others at this season.

And, yes, we need single payer universal health care and we need it now! That's one of the many reasons I'm supporting Dennis Kucinich in 2004.

Keep us posted on your friend's treatment.