Are non-voters patriotic Americans ?

[kentuck]

Can we call anyone that refuses to vote at this critical time in our history a patriotic American? Do they really give a damn about what happens to our country? What do they expect from their country if they refuse to vote? Do they expect an unemployment check if they lose their job? Do they expect their kids to be safe from chemicals and pollution when they go out to play? Do they expect overtime pay when they work 60 hours a week? Do they still think it doesn't matter? Do they still wave the flag? Are they capable of thinking like normal human beings? Do they have the fears and concerns for our country that we have here on DU and people throughout the country are experiencing? Do they still think they are all the same?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. No. nt

[Melodybe]

2. No, they are the reason we are in this mess!

People can be so selfcentered, it makes me ill. I got into a fight with some stoner friends about not voting. I think that we should start a "Get off the Couch" campaign to make sure that everyone that can vote, does vote.

[Walt Starr]

3. Yes, they have chosen not to choose

so they still have made a choice.

[brainshrub]

4. No.

Even if you don't want to vote for president, there are school board, mayoral & congressional seats that need citizen involvement.

People who refuse to vote shame the memory of all the people who died for the right to vote.

[Loonman]

5. No, just lazy

I don't see how fat-assed politicians can get off claiming they "speak for the people" when on every election, less than 40% of the population bother to go out and vote.

That gos for all party affiliations, BTW.

[forgethell]

11. i don't know.

It seems to me that if you have the right to vote, and you don't exercise it, then you are voting. You are saying, "I like things the way they are, just fine."

Of course, there may be other reasons not to vote, but I think the result is the same.

[Walt Starr]

12. That's nowt what they are saying

They are not necessarily saying, "I like things the way they are".

What they are saying is, "I'm okay with whatever those of you who vote decide."

[LiberalBushFan]

6. no

in fact in everyone who didn't know squat about politics didn't vote we'd elect better leaders. Voting based purely on character perceptions doesn't do any good; nothing wrong with abstaining. On the other hand, for those who do read up on things and have some impression of what's best for the country, there's no excuse.

[kentuck]

18. delete

dupe

[kentuck]

19. That's quite an assumption !

How can you argue that the voters that gave us this present mess are smarter than those that don't vote ??? Is it because they listen to Rush Limbaugh?

[JailBush]

7. Even most people who DO vote are traitors...

They're too lazy to educate themselves, check out the candidates, or do anything BUT vote. It boggles my mind to think that all the hard core criminals endorsed by the Seattle Times - including George W. Bush - are the ones who will get elected. What kind of moron believes in the Seattle Times - or the alternative Seattle Weekly or left-wing Eat The State, for that matter?

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. I can sympathize with the reasons some of the non voters give

for usually not participating, though I don't agree with them. Sometimes it seems like things have changed very little regardless of who won the election. Nader sold himself to his 2% of the vote on that idea alone. My motto personally is "If you don't vote, don't bitch about it".

However, in 2004, the old rules are out the window. Voting next year is not a right or a priveledge it is a goddamn neccessity. Simply put, this Idiot Son of An Asshole and the criminal fascists who surround him must be extracted from our government like an impacted wisdom tooth, because if they remain, the pain will be far too great for any of us to bear, even with a Rush Limbaugh sized supply of Oxycontin.

And then ALL of us will become non-voters whether we like it or not :scared:

[fallow]

9. Uneducated votes?

Id rather someone not vote than make an uneducated vote. Too often people vote along party lines, or vote for the most prominent candidate, or whatever. Id rather people stay home and not vote if they wont take the time to educate themselves on the candidates and issues. I am fairly new to this area and I WILL NOT be voting for local candidates. I havent had time to look into the issues here, much less where the candidates stand.

This is what troubles me about young kids voting. I remember voting at 19 years old for Ross Perot!!!! Need I say more?

[kentuck]

20. I would argue that the majority of people that voted for Bush.....

are uneducated morons! And we have the proof sitting up there in the White House. How can you argue with that?

[Gringo]

10. No, but...

I don't really want ill-informed dullards voting either.

Many opt out because they feel (rightly) that the system ignores their wishes and issues anyway. I disagree with opting out, but I understand the sentiment.

[DuctapeFatwa]

13. No, most non-voters are too poor for "patriotism"

And having the poor vote in large numbers would not serve the interests of politicians of either party, nor the corporations who make their campaigns and careers possible.

You have, however, skillfully discovered a way that those who like to think of themselves as "liberals" can demonize the poor without guilt.

[lapislzi]

17. That's a big assumption there...that only the poor don't vote

I know plenty of "comfortable" citizens who couldn't be bothered voting. And it has nothing to do with access to the polls, or the perceptions of powerlessness. It's an inconvenience. My god, you have to GET OUT OF YOUR CAR and WAIT IN LINE. Who has time? We might miss the first five minutes of Joe Millionaire! (Sarcasm on). If they started drive-thru voting, I betcha numbers would go up.

Why, pray tell, don't the poor vote? Is accessibility to the polls the issue? Granted, if voting could change anything, it would be illegal (apologies to whoever said that first).

[DuctapeFatwa]

24. There are exceptions but generally, half of eligible register and

half of registered vote. That tends to be the top 25% income tier.

Polls in the US are open for 12 hours on a working day.
Most low income workers do not live near their jobs, many use public transportation, and the theoretical 2 hours off to vote, even when practiced, is less than helpful to people whose daily commute involves 4-6 hours and multiple bus and subway transfers.

Workers who are most likely to vote include those who have both private transportation and high enough level jobs to permit some flexibility in terms of scheduling.

Absentee ballots are indeed available to anyone with the skills and resources to obtain one. The next time you are talking with a single mom who makes $6/hr cleaning hotel rooms, be sure and ask her if she has made arrangements for her absentee ballot.

In addition to the logistical impracticality, the faith traditions of lower income people are less likely than the affluent's to include a strong belief in the election process.

While it may be surprising to many who assume that the poor are more likely to have a generally lower level of sophistication and formal education, it is the affluent who are most likely to believe that their votes are counted, and/or that any given politician's election would make a significant difference in their lives.

Since any politician who openly called for a complete revamp of the US economic system that would be in direct conflict with the interests of the corporate oligarchy would have little chance of even raising enough money to get on the ballot, this is one aspect where the poor are in reality less gullible and more informed than their wealthier brothers.

[Dr Fate]

14. No, they are not. They are barely citizens as far as I'm concerned.

n/t

[felonious thunk]

15. Non-voters and us

What makes us different is that we have some hope for the future. Most of the non-voters I've ever known don't. Sure, there are some that are just too lazy or ignorant, but I think there are many who are so disillusioned that they can't waste their time voting. They think that regardless of how they vote, companies are going to destroy the environment, the average person is going to get screwed as much as possible.

So yes, they give a damn, but it's hard to force yourself to care when you don't have any reason to hope it'll ever get better.

[Wwagsthedog]

16. For the most part, no

Most of the non-voters around here (north of Houston, TX) are just plain lazy. For every election, there is early voting, absentee voting and yes, regular voting. Unfortunately, those blocks of voters who refrain most from voting are the ones with the most to gain. I've harped on this in the past but it still rankles me that just over 10% of TX voters approved all 22 amendments to the state constitution in September. In Saturday's election in Houston, just under 40% voted for city offices. Next year's campaigns are going to have to concentrate on getting out the vote which will benefit Dem candidates more than others.

End of rant.

[lapislzi]

21. To some, voting is "icky" in the same way

that watching the news or reading the paper is "icky." People don't want you poking at those comfort zones. Voting require advanced citizenship, requires that you make an informed decision. You have to think. Most people hate thinking. I think it goes directly to the anti-intellectual ideology that is so pervasive.

[proud patriot]

22. not by my definition of Patriotism

if you mean if they love America they might but
not enough to work at it .

[DinahMoeHum]

23. These folks may feel their votes really don't count anymore. . .

There's a book out called: "Fixing Elections: The Failure of America's Winner-Take-All Politics" written by a guy named Steven Hill.

Link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0415931932/ref=ase_shopforcfromwork/102-1661280-1596941

(snip)
While voter turnout plummets to single digits (even episodes of "Survivor" drew larger audiences than cast votes for either Gore or Bush), analysts have blamed the growing apathy of the American electorate. But as provocative political critic Steven Hill so eloquently argues, we're not a lazier, less civic-minded people than our grandparents. Voting just seems pointless to many citizens because they recognize the truth: their votes really DON'T count.

A vote for Nader may have been a wasted vote, but so was a vote for Gore in solidly GOP Texas, or Bush in Democratic New York, where the state's winner was a foregone conclusion. In legislatures, rigged district lines render impotent the votes of millions of Americans, Democrat, Republican and independent alike. Democrats in safe GOP legislative districts all across the West and South, and GOP voters in safe urban Democratic districts, have become "orphaned voters" with nowhere to turn, no less than third party supporters everywhere. Entire regions of the country are becoming balkanized political monocultures, dominated by one political party or the other as the political landscape fragments into the "Red and Blue America" that emerged from Election 2000.
(snip)

IOW, Hill's argument is that the current voting system is broken and needs to be overhauled. If people could be given assurances that their vote could count and mean something concrete, they could once again turn out in large numbers.


:kick:

[ComerPerro]

25. Well, in an odd way, yes

If someone has so much apathy that they will just show up and vote on a coin flip, then I think its better that they not vote. Maybe they are doing their patriotic duty by ensuring that their dumb, non-political asses are staying out of the voting booths.

[kentuck]

26. Are you admitting that all the "dittoheads" that voted for Bush...

are intelligent and informed?

[ComerPerro]

29. I am not saying that

I am saying that they don't have the intelligence to recongize that they are ill-informed or in many cases un-informed. And they don't have the decency to just not vote rather than show up and vote for Bush, "because he will restore dignity to the White House and reclaim the country from those evil liberals".

[Endangered Specie]

27. Depends on who they would have voted for, lol...

Really aint to sure, but I know one thing, they have to right to complain about *'s doings, espeacially if they live in FL.

[littlejoe]

28. George Carlin wrote in his book

Napalm and Silly Putty, that it is precisely the ones who vote that the rest of the people should blame for screwing this country all up. We have all of the Bush supporters, according to Carlin, to blame for these last three years. P.S. it is only a humorous observation, one that I do not endorse or criticize.

[Sterling]

30. no

no