A thread for everyone who's very disappointed about Gore's endorsement

[chimpymustgo]

The Deanies have every right to whoop it up and enjoy this moment.

I just don't care to attend that party right now. I'm very disappointed, even hurt, that Gore would make an endorsement before a single vote has been cast.

As much as I dislike Lieberman, it's a very personal blow to him - and to his Senate colleagues, Kerry and Edwards. It's so unnecessary. Let Dean win a couple of primaries - make an endorsement if it looks like we need to bring the party together.

Is this to stop Clark from stopping Dean - Clark who might actually have a shot at winning?

[Terwilliger]

1. Dean doesn't have a chance of winning?

Nice sentiment coming from a Democrat :eyes:

[chimpymustgo]

4. Are you disappointed about the endorsement, too?

So many other threads to express your joy.

[Terwilliger]

7. There's no joy, it's a political event

Still, you're a Democrat saying that the party just lost. maybe you should vote Green or Republican now.

[HFishbine]

16. Voters: Dean has best chance of beating Bush

The surveys in Iowa and New Hampshire show that Dean supporters there do not harbor doubts about former governor's ability to defeat Bush. Rather, it is emerging as a strong suit. Roughly a third of likely voters in Iowa and New Hampshire say Dean has the best chance of beating Bush next November, far more than say that about any other Democrat. In addition, Dean tends to run stronger among those who place a greater priority on defeating Bush than on nominating a candidate who agrees with them on the issues.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=198

[Phelan]

197. So tstates with strong democratic populations favor a dem over a repug?

Wow!

[Spider Jerusalem]

149. Blind partisanship is STUPID...(n/t)

[Padraig18]

2. "...Clark who might actually have a shot at winning?"

Nice backhand slap at Gov. Dean.

[neuvocat]

3. Granted it doesn't help, but...

it isn't time to give up either. Clark deserves more than that, especially since he was drafted.

[cally]

5. I'm upset, but wondering if Clark will be the VP

I've thought for a long time that a devisive primary battle would hurt our chances in November.

[Octafish]

6. Who's CLINTON endorsing?

I hope anybody but Dean.

[Padraig18]

10. Hope, but don't bet the rent.

I bet he does, too.

[batesboys]

15. Me, too

I cannot vote for Dean...if he wins the nomination this poses a major problem for me.

[Padraig18]

19. What problem?

He's a Democrat-- are YOU? :eyes:

[BellTry]

46. I suggest you take a look at Clark supporters

A ton of them are former republicans. Anyone as "left" as Dean is too much for them.

I firmly believe a fair amount of Clark supporters are only "supporting" him because it's the repub strategy. They don't want to run against Dean, and Clark is the only other candidate they can potentially win with come primary time. Repubs WILL be voting in our primary.

[cally]

73. Would you please do just a touch of analysis

before posting. Dean is a moderate. Look at his record. He is running a great, populist campaign.

Second. give me some link to your statement that Clark supporters are former Republicans. Prove it. I have never voted for a Republican, for any office, ever. Do some analysis and cite some facts before making blanket statements.

Insulting folks with beliefs that have no basis in fact will not win supporters.

Let's hope Independents and some Republicans vote for our candidate in the general.

[BellTry]

117. Do you think I don't know Dean is a moderate?

Please for god sakes do your OWN analysis. Why do you think I wrote "left" in quotation marks?

Dean is only "left" to republicans. I have heard former republicans say they will not vote Dean because he is too "left" and will only go with Clark. These are the people I was speaking of.

As far as republicans - before Clark was drafted you could have checked out a myriad of "Republicans for Clark" sites that were heavily active. If you don't believe Republicans have switched for Clark then you are naive OR you are conceeding that Clark can't attract republicans.

[cally]

162. Well, I'm glad you edited all your posts on this subthread

I don't disagree with any on your reply but I didn't like the original tone. I'm actually happy that Clark has this support. I am old enough to remember the NE block of Republicans who helped, if not drove, much of the environmental legislation I hold so dear. I think many of these moderates are looking for a new home and I think Clark gives that to them.

[jmaier]

74. Too offensive

That's almost too offensive a statement to even argue with -- I know A LOT of pro-Clark DEMOCRATS. Back to your cave.

[BellTry]

122. Please show me

where I said a LOT of pro-Clark democrats didn't exist? Of course MOST people that support Clark are democrats, but he has a fair share of republicans that have moved to support him.

[tokenlib]

91. Apparently you are unfamiliar with Clark's positions..

A lot of us feel he is more progressive than Howard Dean.

Clark also has respect for freedom and dissent. Declaring this process over before a vote is cast is undemocratic. Gore should have kept neutral--rather than join a Dean "railroad."

It is strange to see a victim of disenfranchisement--render our votes in primaries and caucuses irrelevant.

[BellTry]

119. I recognize that Clark may be more progressive

But have you visited Free Republic or other republican forums lately? Ask them who they consider the most liberal and 9 times out of 10 they will tell you Dean. FOX news has identified Dean as the "radical liberal" in many republicans minds, not Clark.

[xultar]

159. Please don't generalize. That is how people get into trouble and

how they trip and fall. I happen to know a fair amount of Clark supporters that are of all races and religions. So your little RW strategy dosen't hold any water.

After Dean gets the nomination and he's running against Bush the true story will be told.

[bhunt70]

173. what a bunch of bullshit...

says the liberal clark supporter.

[PissedOffPollyana]

61. Well, isn't that charming...

BTW, I am a Democrat too... one who has been intensely loyal through all the luke-warm milquetoasts they've served up over the years, followed by the more recent corporate whores. Then we actually win and President Gore ROLLS OVER! I have grown in fear that the Democratic party doesn't know who it wants to be or serve anymore.

If we are to be a slightly more leftward version of the GOP, with it's angry yet fuzzy bully rhetoric and non-promise promises and "uniting" based on fear, fingerpointing and rage with a side of "power to the people" BS... it will tax the little patience I have left for their lack of vision. I have read his "issues" platforms (as well as the others') time & again and the better part criticize current policy, but are rather incomplete as to what is to be done. It reminds me of every GOP campaign I've ever seen (winning & losing... they're just not about the details because most of them do not go over well when you know what they are.). I know it's not popular to say around here, but the whole grass-roots thing will need to take a back seat to actual details and firm policy statements if this guy wants me to even think about him as anything more than a fashion trend.

If Dean is nominated, they will have to work damned hard to get my vote or, like a lot of real populist progressives, I will be taking a hard look at working for other options.

WWWD - Who Would Wellstone Demand?

[cindyw]

172. Your with us or against us huh! That's not a Dem value. You too, are

talking to Dems. We have every right to our opinion. Even if you don't like it. Even if it is that Dean cannot win.

[directinfection]

198. DEAN IS A DEMOCRAT?

could have fooled me!

[Terwilliger]

23. what sort of problem?

too far to left for you?

[PVnRT]

33. Have fun voting for Bush, then

n/t

[MoonRiver]

96. WHY couldn't you vote for Dean if he gets the nomination???????

You sound very freeperish to me. Please explain that statement, asap.

[Octafish]

192. Don't blame you. But he says he is a Democrat.

So Dean doesn't have a record of supporting Democratic causes?

So he lied about my horse?

So he's a draft dodger?

If he's the nominee, he'll be our candidate.

It's our duty to vote for him.

PS: C'mon! Drink the Kool-Aid, already!



PSS: A hearty welcome to DU, batesboys!

PSSS: Don't forget Deanieweenies would vote for your candidate if he or she got the nomination. LOL.

[KaraokeKarlton]

18. The Clintons have always really liked Dean

He got to sit directly behind Hillary at at least one of the State of the Union Addresses. Dean isn't going to hold any grudges towards the other candidates. I'm guessing he will make room for all of them in his administration, even Kerry and Gephardt.

So Dean isn't your first choice, and maybe some don't like him at all. However, it's looking more and more everyday like he's going to be the nominee. Those who hate the idea might do well to at least try to get used to the idea of a Dean nomination. If that means finding at least one thing about him you like, so be it. Every one of the candidates have something good to offer, and we can all get a hell of a lot further if we all work together instead of trying to tear each other apart.

[Octafish]

189. Oh, I agree with a lot of what you said. I don't think Dean can win.

That's why I'm trying my durndest to get people to wake up to the guy's flaw. It's not my intention to divide anyone.

If Dean's the nominee, however, I'll vote for him.

[Phelan]

199. and I'm sure thats why Bill urged Clark to run

this summer during the Draft Clark days,
Clinton came out very strong for Clark to run...
at the same event he also said that he did not feel it was the propper use of his position within the party to endorse a candidate in the primaries

[bearfartinthewoods]

51. i thought he already said that there were only two stars in the party

when referring to Clark? isn't that sort of an endorsement?

[Octafish]

190. Absolutely. The turd Safire brought it up...

Here's the column from Agnew's speechwriter (some people will do anything for a buck):

Wesley Clark: stalking horse?

By William Safire
The New York Times

The Clintons decided that the Democratic primary campaign was getting out of hand. Howard Dean was getting all the buzz and too much of the passionate left's money. Word was out that Dean as nominee, owing Clintonites nothing, would quickly dump Terry McAuliffe, through whom Bill and Hillary maintain control of the Democratic National Committee.

That's when word was leaked of the former president's observation at an intimate dinner party at the Clinton Chappaqua, N.Y., estate that "there are two stars in the Democratic Party -- Hillary and Wes Clark."

Meanwhile, the four-star general whom Clinton fired for being a publicity hog during the Kosovo liberation has been surrounded by the Clinton-Gore mafia. Lead agent is Mark Fabiani, the impeachment spinmeister; he brought in the rest of the Restoration coterie.

When reporters start poking into any defense contracts that Clark arranged for clients after his retirement, he will have the lip-zipping services of Clinton confidant Bruce Lindsey.

CONTINUED...

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/6839257.htm

Safire goes on to denigrate the general as much as possible. Too bad he's getting "Gored" like my horse. Clark is a good man. — Octafish

[Blue_Roses]

158. Clinton isn't endorsing anyone

He was on C-SPAN with Bob Dole not too long ago and he was asked this question and while he said there is good group of candidates, he would not endorse one.

Got to hand it to the big dog to stay neutral!

[Octafish]

194. Yes. Big Dog'd rather let the DEMs duke it out amongst themselves...

... The non-endorsement also helps Clinton maintain his power base within the big DEM picture. If he endorses one, he'd alienate a bunch of fans. He thinks long-term, that WJC. I, too, appreciate him.

[ShimokitaJer]

8. So Gore should have waited to see if Dean was going to win...

and THEN endorse him? Is it so unimaginable that Gore chose to endorse Dean based on something other than his electability?

If he'd thrown his support to Clark, would it have been okay, since Clark "actually has a shot at winning?"

[moz4prez]

9. this might prompt an endorsement from Clinton

who is by far more prominent a Democrat than Gore. Remember, Clinton played a definite role in initiating Clark's candidacy.

Watch for it.

[chimpymustgo]

13. That would be pretty divisive, no?

But Gore's endorsement is just baffling to me.

[Carolina]

93. it's more than baffling

it's unnecesary at this point and potentially divisive. Gore has a tin ear. He listened to the wrong people about his campaign in 2000 and then the wrong people about putting up a real fight in Florida. Gore lost his luster with me when he ran from Clinton, chose Holy Joe as his running mate, and wimped out with the press attack dogs (unlike Clinton's rapid response team).

I am actually afraid Gore's endorsement may HURT Dean 'cause where I live, a lot of people (independents, disaffected repugs) didn't (and still don't) like Gore. They just plain don't like him (wooden, chamelion, etc.). Even among Dems, the 2000 election was not so much about enthusiasm for Gore as it was total antipathy toward Bush (see Jeffrey Toobin's book). Dean has his own momentum and I don't think he needed Gore (but does Gore need Dean ... possibly for renewed recognition, redemption ??)

Anyway, he should have stayed out of things and let the primaries run their course. This angers me because even though I am (was?)for Clark, I was so impressed with Dean in Florida and SC this weekend that I find myself wavering and becoming inclined to think that Dean CAN go the distance. Now Gore interjects himself and I fear what the punditocracy will do to morph this into Gore-Bush referendum which is bad news for Dean.

Dean is on a roll (he's just about converted me this weekend)and I sure hope Al, with his poor timing and tin ear, doesn't fuck it up.

[ldf]

174. gore needs dean???

what are you smoking? can i have some?

if gore were to get into the primaries he would INSTANTLY be the frontrunner. every poll where his name was included, has indicated so.

sorry, that one is a little to much.

and if the people in your area are still concerned about gore's "wooden" and "chamelion" traits (both republican talking points), then maybe they are not that disappointed with bush to start with.

the catastrophe that is george w. bush, by far, overshadows any "wooden" or "chamelion" mannerisms. WHICH, by the way, gore does NOT possess. please allow people to make up their own minds, and not be told what to think by fox, cnn and msrnc.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

214. yep: "Gore's endorsement may HURT Dean"

Because it t will polarize people on both sides. Look what's happened here.

[T Bone]

113. Premature, I think, but maybe it will bounce Lieberman OUT ?

If anything good could come of it, maybe it will bounce Lieberman the hell out, for good. That's my hope. Get Lieberman out so the presstitutes can quit using him to saok up Democratic discussion time, if nothing else.

[IndianaGreen]

181. Does anyone really care about Lieberman? I don't.

I am very happy that Gore endorsed Dean, but that is all it is, an endorsement. Winning the nomination is another ballgame altogether.

One thing that needs repeating here, after watching all the candidate speak at the Florida Convention, and particularly at the forums, there is no reason to be ashamed or feel inferior about the candidate you support. They were all splendid!

[MoonRiver]

75. That's what I've been thinking.

Clinton has hinted that he favors Clark.

[tokenlib]

94. I don't see Clinton doing that...

Clinton has always talked about the people making choices--and respecting their decisions. Everything he says in public shows respect for the democratic process and respect for the voters.
He relishes the "elder statesman role.

But Gore jumping in like this might change his neutrality. IMHO he will stay out of it.

[janx]

128. I didn't know that Clinton played a definite role in initiating

Clark's candidacy. When and how did this happen? I thought that Clinton was neutral--at least at the steak fry in Iowa.

[roguevalley]

165. I feel this was too early. Its too bad that the top echelon of performers,

the veeps and prez's can't stay out. There will be many
long conversations out of our hearing. The candidates
will be talking to each other as well. Don't be discouraged.
What we aren't hearing will be important. Clark is still
in play. Gore made his move and supports his candidate.
That he couldn't wait is unfortunate but don't hesitate
to believe there aren't any conversations going on now
between players.

Count on it and don't be discouraged. This is politics.
Sometimes it ain't pretty.

[Zomby Woof]

11. not the first time Gore has disappointed

Such is politics. The endorsement means nothing. My opinion of Dean is unaffected by Gore, or anyone else's endorsement.

[Desertrose]

25. Thank you Zomby

I agree...
just seems awfully soon and well...yeah, I am disappointed in Gore...again...not the first time....
Peace
DR

[bearfartinthewoods]

59. awfully soon?? you betcha

now the whole country can get a hint of what PA people have felt for a long time. by the time ya get to vote your vote doesn't count.

Dean has won the invisible primary...the guy with the most money wins.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

202. you had to say it...

"Dean has won the invisible primary...the guy with the most money wins."

Most money, most media coverage... most name recognition.... oh well.

To think there used to be primaries.

TWL

[PurityOfEssence]

56. Ain't it da troot

What's the point of this at this point? To jump on the bandwagon and savor some whiff of victory? To fulfill the DNC's idiotic and unspoken desire since '84 to simply eliminate primaries altogether?

Sure, his centrism is actually fairly close to Dean's, so maybe it's a sincere pronouncement of likemindedness, but the jury's out on that.

I'm just absolutely disgusted now. The true believers will at least take a moment off from savaging the other candidates to have a rapturous gleefest with their faction. Great.

[Nazgul35]

112. As was expected....

this endorsement will affect all the undecides out there...those 20-30% in every state poll....that's who this will affect...not you or me....

[ThirdWheelLegend]

203. so image rather than substance ..

So you are saying Image(Gore's celebrity) rather than substance is going to help decide for the undecided in the primaries. Great!

Wait a second. Isn't that what we have been trying to avoid?

D'OH! :)

TWL

[Don Claybrook]

12. Lots of people, depending on who their candidate is

...suggest a Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean ticket. I think this misses the mark. I'm a Dean supporter, but I like Wes Clark (I believe there are many of us who feel that way).

I'd like to see Clark do something more important than fill the VP slot. I'd like to see Howard Dean announce (after consultations, at the appropriate time), that he'll ask Wes Clark to be the Secretary of State. I think it would be a position befitting Mr. Clark.

I only brought this up in this thread in an attempt to turn this thing into a potential positive for the Clark supporters who are feeling disappointment right now.

Thanks.

[oasis]

89. Clark's comments about his Vietnam wounds vs. ski slope Dean is a

GOP ad waiting to happen should Clark become a Dean v.p. pick.

[janx]

134. There is no way I can imagine Dean (or any other Dem)

putting together an administration and not including Clark.

[sweetheart]

14. Mr. Gore din't pick so well last time...

... so what's to say he's right this time... likely not.

His endorsement of Dean indicates that dean will lose... and that to win, clark is a better call. Clinton has a better track record of picking winners.

I don't think this endorsement amounts to much except institutional myopia within some circles. This is the same Mr. Gore who did not want a full recount of florida and rather only 2 counties... a man who has timid expectations of democracy at best... his endorsement is not so valuable, rather more of a curse. Its good he gave it to dean.... now WE-THE-PEOPLE can select a winner.

[chimpymustgo]

21. Oh, sweetheart - you made me smile!

We can't give up the fight.

[HFishbine]

22. "Clinton has a better track record of picking winners???"

You mean, like picking Gore?

[sweetheart]

50. I must have missed clinton's..

campaigning for gore in 2000... seems that had he, we would not be here in this situation today... and it was ANOTHER! of mr. gore's bad political judgement calls that lead to that... as was it not Mr. Gore who insisted that clinton stay away.

[Carolina]

154. exactly!

as I said above, Gore has a tin ear. He listened to the wrong people about his campaign in 2000 and then the wrong people about putting up a real fight in Florida. Gore lost his luster with me when he ran from Clinton, chose Holy Joe as his running mate, and wimped out with the press attack dogs (unlike Clinton's rapid response team).

Gore's endorsement may actually HURT Dean. Many people (independents, disaffected repugs) didn't (and still don't) like Gore. They just plain don't like him (wooden, chamelion ...). Even among Dems, the 2000 election was not so much about enthusiasm for Gore as it was total antipathy toward Bush (see Jeffrey Toobin's book). Dean has his own momentum and I don't think he needed Gore (but does Gore need Dean ... possibly for renewed recognition, redemption ??)

Anyway, Gore should have stayed out of things and let the primaries run their course. This angers me because now with Gore interjecting himself into the race, I fear the punditocracy will morph this into Gore-Bush referendum which is just plain bad news.

DLC Gore is PAST, the victor who failed to claim what was his and fight for the PEOPLE, as in we the people, the majority of whom voted for him. Dean is on a roll and Clark is gaining momentum. They both represent the future of the party and the ability to beat Bush.

I sure hope Al, with his poor timing and tin ear, doesn't fuck it all up.

[Terwilliger]

29. oh man...this is PRICELESS

I could have used some of this sentiment when you people were fawning all over Al Gore's every move.

This hatred that has sprung up against Dean is really sad.

[DancingBear]

38. Not hatred

Just disapointment from those who TRULY believe that Clark is the only one who can beat *. The only one. We hope we are wrong, we will work like hell to prove ourselves wrong, but for right now we see nothing but long lines of smirking chimps, and we are very sad.

[HFishbine]

41. Voters: Dean the best to beat Bush

The surveys in Iowa and New Hampshire show that Dean supporters there do not harbor doubts about former governor's ability to defeat Bush. Rather, it is emerging as a strong suit. Roughly a third of likely voters in Iowa and New Hampshire say Dean has the best chance of beating Bush next November, far more than say that about any other Democrat. In addition, Dean tends to run stronger among those who place a greater priority on defeating Bush than on nominating a candidate who agrees with them on the issues.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=198

[DancingBear]

44. Well, let's hope so n/t

[Terwilliger]

83. people may feel that way about Clark

still, I think the thing that's happening today is that Gore's endorsement of Dean throws water onto people who were so hot for their own ideas about how everything works...Gore is showing people that things are not always cut and dried, and dynamics rule the day

Personally, I don't know that Dean or Clark would secure the presidency for the Dems.

[sweetheart]

43. I supported president gore...

because he was the president until he abdicated the throne for reasons of his own. I don't hate dean... i want to win... not make a memorable fight in the next runoff poll.

Dean's riff will, IMO, not win... and when push comes to shove, the runoff MUST BE A WINNER for democrats or our very lives are in peril. I'll support Mr. DEan and wax fawning upon him if he wins the poll, but geez, i hope not... no hate... realpolitik.

[Terwilliger]

80. realpolitik means you know what Americans want?

and it's not Dean? Why are you sure?

[sweetheart]

109. winning involves taking the republican voters...

who are disenchanted with bush, more than having a glee club amongst the Democratic party. Also given the foregone election strategy of fear, security and security, only a credible deterrent candidate can combat in the media-climate of republican partisanism.

The republicans are afraid of clark, 'cuz he can cut their own party down the middle and leave them only a band of neocon fundies with no voting base... not in the northeast... in the swing states and in the south where military credence and a non-partisan track record are very very valuable... as well, not having the fringe of vietnam war protestors as the mainstay of one's populus is also a help.

All these candidates are comprimise candidates in my view. When is give up dreaming of DK - president... i am rather only focused on who has the chance to win, as they all have mediocre platforms.

Clark is the man the republicans fear. Dean's anti-establishment approach risks being branded as weak and petty by a very viscious propaganda machine. If i pretend, for a moment, to be back in my previous skin as a once-reagan voter hating carter (sorry!)... i would want to face dean, as he is easy to crush given the way republicans fight.

I hope i'm wrong... and if dean wins, i'll swallow my dissent and kiss ass to the big hope.... but please lets not go there. I know in my bones that clark will win, and i wish i did not know similarly that dean is a mcgovern. Clearly dean supporters would hope i'm just an opinionated wrong-seeing person... time will tell.

[phillybri]

78. Gore endorsed Lieberman for VP in 2000....Bad idea....

:evilgrin:

I'm just goofing around! That being said, I wish he had stayed neutral until the GE. I don't dislike Dean, and I don't have an axe to grind, I just feel this should've waited.

Of course, there is something to be said about uniting the party behind one candidate...

[BootinUp]

17. No sour grapes here, but it is not over yet!

I would like to hear the Clark campaign on this, I guess Tweety will be asking the question. And very interested to hear Gore's statement. I think it is too soon for this endorsement, and I would not be surprised if Gore catches some flak for doing it.

Anyways, I suspect Dean will get a big initial boost in coverage, but Clark can make big news when 4th Qtr contributions are announced. This thing is not over yet folks.

[DancingBear]

30. Thanks, Jim

I needed that !! :)

[bain_sidhe]

20. what part of "very disappointed" don't you folks understand?

Most of the posts in this thread don't sound "very disappointed" to me. Maybe they're just hiding it well...

:eyes:

[bearfartinthewoods]

77. i'm disappointed because Gore just did his part in guaranteeing

that this goes badly. i want a competative primary, like Gore should have had to iron out the wrinkles before the general. a real battle to make damn sure we have the right guy and if that means i have to join the Clark camp then so be it i guess.

[eric_schafer]

24. Gore understands

that the most efficient way to kick the pResident out of the White House is to unify the party early. Dems can then unite and hammer, hammer, HAMMER Bush and his pathetic "achievements".

Why did he choose Dean (my choice as well)? We'll have to wait and hear that from him.

[bearfartinthewoods]

121. my money is on, though he'll never admit it

that he's sticking the knofe into the DLC and DNC for not supporting his run in 04. go re read his "not running' statement. it's allll there.

[chimpymustgo]

152. bearfart, that's the only explanation that makes any sense.

Only one.

[Justice]

160. Can't Be

The Al Gore who gave that amazing speech in December of 2000 when he conceded to Bush did not turn into a hateful spiteful man.

Perhaps Al Gore thinks Dean is the one, and endorsed him for that reason.

I am saying this as a Clark supporter. I am disappointed in Gore's choice, but respect the man to make it. In my view, the endorsement won't mean much to the undecideds, it makes Dean look more like an insider, more DLC

[Hep]

26. A question

Is it endorsements you don't like, or just Gore's? What makes Gore different from other people? Technically he's just a citizen. A highly influential citizen, but...

[tokenlib]

169. Gore was supposedly in a "senior statesmen" role...

Look at Clinton with his analogy that during the primaries everyone falls in love with their candidate--once nominated everyone should fall into line behind the one candidate.

Up to this point Clinton has at least publically encouraged all the candidates and their supporters. Can you imagine if Clinton took sides right now? He is much more respectable for staying neutral. And Gore seemed to be following that example--as a senior statesman.

Now Gore is choosing sides--even before a single vote has been cast. So much for the value of one person-one vote.

[roguevalley]

170. I don't mind endorsements but there is a tier of endorsement that should

not be made before even one vote is cast. They include
but are not limited to:

President Carter
Vice President Mondale
President Clinton - he obviously agrees as he won't make one
Vice President Gore

Also, the previous Presidential/Vice Presidential candidates:
Dukakis and his partner.

There are endorsements and there are endorsements. These people
should hold their peace until the PEOPLE speak first. Then make
them. We should have a clear unobstructed and obscured shot at
telling the world whom we love and support. They taint that
'purity' if you will. They should all wait.

IMHO

[meow mix]

27. dean has a chance

but thats all it is. just a regular type chance.

not..
a Really Really Good Excellect chance.
as would be the case with CLARK!

from my perspective this is a huge blunder. so im obviously disappointed.

gore again,
makes sense..
in some sort of wierd way.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

28. It hasn't happened yet and the source is right wingers

That said, if Gore endorses Dean I will have to wait and see what his reasoning is for doing so. In the matter of domestic policies, I don't see it being the end of the world. In the matter of foreign policy, I am not so convinced that Dean is the correct choice.

[CMT]

31. I understand your feelings, but

I actually think it takes more political courage for Al Gore to endorse someone now than to wait to see if Dean wins a couple of primaries. This is saying that he is willing to take his chances and if Dean falls on his face so be it.

[jmaier]

82. It's not about courage

It is about giving the process some time to work. Remember, many of those hard working supporters of candidates other than Howard Dean were ardent Gore supporters in 2000. As an ex-Pres/VP, to endorse someone before a SINGLE vote has been cast, seems to betray those very same supporters.

The point of waiting to endorse is NOT because you aren't courageous but because you have respect for the PROCESS and those little people who make it work.

[BellTry]

32. I am very happy

I would have voted Green had Clark got the nomination. This is a set back for Clark, and will likely see Dean get the nod if everything continue to go as it has been. I am very pleased that I will be able to vote dem in 04.

Furthermore I will also have a better chance of being able to vote Kucinich in the primary if Clark is no longer a risk to Dean.

[Ilsa]

34. Dean's a great candidate, but yes, I'm disappointed in Al.

I feel disenfranchised, like Al has already done the deal and we have to skip the Primaries and go straight to the Convention, which seems to fit right in with Rove's plans.

I'll still vote for Clark in my primary. Too bad, Al.

[imhotep]

35. we need to bring the party together now

before the bitter clark bots destroy any chance of beating Bush.

[Liberal Veteran]

36. Gore isn't allowed to have an opinion with polling us first?

That is what you are implying, is it not?

Gore is a private citizen and he is allowed to throw his support behind whomever the hell he wants.

[robsul82]

37. Stop crying.

To EVERYBODY bitching about this - in the words of the Gropeinator, "Stop whining! You need discipline!" If YOUR candidate were being endorsed by President Gore, you'd be in ecstasy too. Stop bitching.

Later.

RJS

[bain_sidhe]

55. ya mean like, "get over it"?

:eyes:

[tokenlib]

58. Wrong! Some of us assumed neutrality on the part of our elder statesmen.

It would be nice to get the chance to vote first before being "lead" to "the railroad."

Most of us would have "fallen into line" as Bill Clinton put it after the nomination. Now a lot of us are sick at heart. This is wrong.

[robsul82]

72. Yeah, yeah, yeah...

Again. If Gore endorsed your guy, you wouldn't care.

Later.

RJS

[tokenlib]

100. Yes ...I would care!

People expect a fair process. People work hard for their candidates. They deserve a chance for the system to work--for their voices to be heard. The elder statesman role requires staying above this process--Gore has really disappointed me. Clinton, at least publically has shown respect for all the candidates and their supporters. And some of us respect that.

[Carolina]

156. not so

as I said twice above, Gore does not have the best political instincts. His tin ear led him to listen to the wrong people about his campaign in 2000 and about putting up a real fight in Florida. He foolishly ran from Clinton (which was part of the reason he chose Holy Joe as his running mate) and wimped out with the press attack dogs.

Gore's endorsement may actually HURT Dean. Many people (independents, disaffected repugs) didn't (and still don't) like Gore. They just plain don't like him (wooden, chamelion ...). Even among Dems, the 2000 election was not so much about enthusiasm for Gore as it was total antipathy toward Bush (see Jeffrey Toobin's book). Dean has his own momentum and I don't think he needed Gore (but does Gore need Dean ... possibly for renewed recognition, redemption ??).

Anyway, Gore should have stayed out of things and let the primaries run their course. This angers me because now with Gore interjecting himself into the race, I fear the punditocracy will morph this into Gore-Bush referendum which is just plain bad news. He shouldn't use Dean to grind his axe with the DLC or DNC.

And I'd be very worried if he had chosen to endorse my guy, Clark, because, with his poor timing and tin ear, I'd be afraid he would fuck everything up.

[roguevalley]

171. I would reject this type of endorsement even if it was for Clark. Stop

telling me what I would do or believe.

[lastliberalintexas]

97. Is Gore holding a gun

to your head to prevent you from voting for the candidate of your choice? Silly me- I thought all he'd done is endorse someone. :shrug:

[no name no slogan]

85. Oh no I wouldn't!

Gore is from the DLC wing of the party: the ones who have cost us BOTH houses of congress, a majority of governorships, and a majority of state legislatures over the past 12 years-- eight of which he was a sitting Vice President!

Seriously, would you REALLY want to have a Democrat running for president who supported:

* The Death Penalty
* "welfare reform" that does nothing to get people out of poverty but cuts their benefits and adds them to the ranks of the working poor,
* media consolidation (less choice in information sources),
* unbridled irresponsible speculation and corruption in our securities industry,
* a "don't ask, don't tell" military policy that has led to more gays being kicked out of the military than previously,
* a half-baked attempt at "universal healthcare", run by the top insurance companies, that still did not deliver universal coverage,
* a continuation of an imperialistic foreign policy that was responsible for the deaths of over half a million children in Iraq, the destruction of a pharmaceutical factory in Sudan, and the destruction of civilian infrastructure in Serbia and Iraq (forbidden by the Geneva Convention, btw).
* a continued alarming stratification of wealth in America, where the wealthiest got wealthier, and the poorest got poorer.

It's a record that Eisenhower could be proud of; unfortunately, it's the Clinton/Gore record of 1993-2001.

If my chosen candidate, Dennis Kucinich, got an endorsement from a candidate like Gore at this early stage of the game, I seriously doubt I'd stick around his campaign for long.

Dean getting Gore's endorsement only solidifies the fact that Dean/whoever will be the SAME kind of president Clinton/Gore were, and NOTHING will really change, deep down. We'll still have the corporate greedheads calling the shots while working people continue to get the shaft. We'll still have an American Empire that costs us many billions of dollars and thousands of lives annually.

[BellTry]

102. This is one of the most amusing posts I have ever seen

So you are bashing Gore for his DLC affiliation?

Well WTF... Maybe we should go over some of Clark's affiliations which are FAR more concerning than Gore & the DLC? Either way ONE of these two - Clark or Dean - is going to get the nomination. If a persons affiliation is your concern, why would you take the repub voter, repub supporter, Rove caller, and repub fundraiser Clark over Dean? Would you rather have Gore support him? In the end it would be one of the two he would have to support anyway.

Furthermore if Gore were doing this out some kind of DLC logic - why, exactly, would be be supporting a non-DLC candidate?

More Clark logic & double standards. Nice. I wouldn't have expected a Kucinich supporter to adopt such logic.

BTW - all the negatives you pin to Clinton AND Gore largely belong to Clinton. Care to name the ones that Gore actually had a hand in causing?

[bhunt70]

176. how was post 85 in any way about clark, and yet you bring him up?

candidate envy?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

206. "why, exactly, would be be supporting a non-DLC candidate?"

He is endorsing Kucinich? Wait I am confused. I thought he was endorsing Dean.


TWL

[_NorCal_D_]

39. I'm not disappointed.

However I do find this to be particularly amusing. Dean, who touts himself as a 'maverick' and a 'radical' receiving the endorsement of an establishment Democrat. So much for the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.

Would any Dean supporter care to explain this to me?

[Don Claybrook]

45. Well, golly, do you suppose

that maybe, just maybe, Gore is bucking the establishment Democrats, as he has been doing pretty regularly for the last year and a half?

You should be thrilled that Howard Dean is going to kick Bush's miserable, treasonous ass all the way back to Texas and Trippi's going to leave that fuck Karl Rove for dead.

I would've been pretty OK with Clark as the nominee, and who can say, it may still happen. But by the same token, you could be happy that we have a real Democrat who is preparing to steamroll these assholes who have done their damndest to destroy our country and our way of life.

Work for your guy until the bitter end if you'd like, but quit trying to denigrate the guy who's going to save your ass from George W. Bush.

[_NorCal_D_]

70. It's all a matter of perception.

Maybe Gore is the one breaking from the DLC ranks, maybe he isn't. Who can say? I suppose all we really can do is wait and see how Dean handles himself in the coming months.

[Don Claybrook]

71. On that point

I'm sure Dean will be hewing more and more toward the center. They say that's how elections are won. But this is something that would've happened whether Gore was involved or not.

[Hep]

49. I will explain

Youre engaging in guilt by association. The DLC STILL hates Dean. But rather than Gore GAIN credibility by supporting this "maverick" some people choose to use the information to further DISCREDIT Dean.

It's natural and understanding and entirely up to you the way you interpret this news. But biases you held before play into that interpretation.

Gore's support for Dean doesn't change Dean's platform.

[_NorCal_D_]

57. Perhaps,

but I still find it amusing. B-)

[Hep]

Fair enough

The sheer degree that the political maneuvering goes to is either incredibly frutrating or funny as hell. I choose for my own well being to look at it the way you do!

[mitchum]

40. But isn't Gore a dreaded DC insider...

and not a red windbreaker-clad rebel?

[Hep]

81. Yeah! Who's more pissed?

The people who hate the DLC or the people IN the DLC? One for the ages.

[MarkTwain]

42. Just Plain Wrong....

.... from so many perspectives.

And from Gore, no less, who put up the most lackluster and impotent fight in his own ninth inning to take a Presidency which was rightfully his. He is now going to shackle this party with a candidate who will be a non-starter at the gate.

Dean has a snowball's chance in hell of winning the general.

Rove is toasting the potential of a Gore announcment tonight in the den of the cabal. Rove will eat and spit Dean out like a snake does to the carcas of a mouse.

The only one Rove feared was Clark. But we Democrats are either just plain stupid or too righteous and elitist to put up such a man who might actually win back this country for us.

A damn, damn shame. On the Party and on Al Gore.

[meow mix]

47. chimpys are out dancing

and clapping, and cheering. whole throngs of em.

[chimpymustgo]

48. Damn right, damn shame.

nt

[Donna Zen]

68. great post

Thanks for saying what needs to be said. With so many Clark-haters posting in this thread, it was a very brave act indeed.

Wanting to get rid of bush, doesn't cloud my thinking enough to think that Dean can win.

[meow mix]

90. i liked it

and your posts always make good sense too donna!
i appreciate your honest and clear logic =)

[blm]

195. exactly...I wish I did have clouded thinking

so I can roll in the clover for at least a week before the real poundings begin. I'm going to have to keep the tv off.

[Gloria]

52. I am extremely disappointed and upset....

I love Gore--but I don't like the timing of this. I think he should have waited until after the first primaries. I get the horrible sense that there's a bunch of Democratic lemmings heading over the cliff--before the first primary vote has been cast and before Dean has really been forced to focus on some of his flip/flops, image problems under the heat of an intensifying primary season.

This leaves me VERY QUEASY and very, very nervous because now the GOP can run against Dean and Gore, joined at the hip. Don't worry, they will find a way to do it. Gore didn't want to run because we weren't supposed to look at the past, but were supposed to look to the future. Well, the past has just joined the future......maybe way too early.

I am very unhappy with Mr. Gore on this particular action.

Primaries are meant to allow votes to evaluate the campaigns. It's bad enough states are eliminating primary elections....

Gore injecting himself this early clouds the issues of the campaigns. Again, he's brought up the PAST, which he said he didn't want to do, and put it into the present campaign season. It's enough that the candidates themselves have been bringing up 2000...now, Gore's in it, too, in person.

I wouldn't mind seeing some of the PAST (2000) via Gore's involvement injected into the national campaign. But I don't want to see the primary season steamrollered, just as things are getting interesting.

Think about it...this will also give FAUX and RW talk radio a field day....and will eat up air time on the candidates in the "mainstream". Clark's domestic policy released today? Won't hear about it....Kucinich vs. Diebold...NAH. Medicare vote bribe/Dems protesting in the House today? Forget about hearing about it....

It's bad enough we never hear the end of Clinton/Lewinsky practically to this day...."Serial liar" Gore now joins the fray.....right up there with Dean's sealed records....

[chimpymustgo]

63. Gloria, you have put your finger on a couple of issues:

The feeling of disenfranchisement that Gore's premature action leaves many of us who would like to see the process play out.

And you're right, Gore is hated by the wingers, and is polarizing. His endorsement will only help Dean win the nomination. It's won't do much for the General.

But it'll give foxnews hours and hours of fun.

[Gloria]

114. Hell, ChimpyMustGo-- I just saw Hillary on all the Sunday shows

saying she's not endorsing and that we should let the process play out...Gore couldn't wait?

Feb/March is an early end to primaries as it is...they've been "reconstructed" that way, forward loaded for just that reason....

The more I think about it, the more bugged I am. Gore is no longer "in politics"; he's been been doing the "elder statesman" thing...and largely ignored. So now he endorses and you can bet it will play right into the hands of Rove!

Exasperating.

[jumptheshadow]

79. This is how I'm feeling...

I'm feeling the same way I felt when we were moving inexorably toward the Iraq war. The media and the Democratic pols were going along with it and the American people were listening to the media. There were some of us who raised our voices and hollered, "We are plunging toward a disastrous situation." And nobody listened to us.

As I have said, I have talked to many Democrats in the past two weeks. If they are questioning whether Dean is electable, if he rubs them the wrong way, then is Gore's endorsement wise?

And yes, I will unite with my Dean colleagues if he is the nominee. But I'm not giving up the fight. Not when it's so important to win the White House next November.

[Gloria]

123. I feel rather the same way....the march to the sea, bit...kicked in the

stomach by my own....

I've suddenly gotten this idea that maybe Gore is doing for some weird psychological reason....maybe he sees in Dean's style the style he wished he had had????

I'm still very upset by this....and you can see, the media already made it their lead....anyway they can drag Gore in, they will, to REMIND us how he "LOST" in 2000. This is a very perverse play right into Rove and the corporate playmakers' hands....a gift for Bushco.

[ldf]

184. gloria, get a grip

i was watching abc news, and peter jennings specifically pointed out that gore won the poplular vote in 2000. another poster indicated the same happened on cbs.

endorsing someone after they won is useless.

i think gore saw what the democrats were doing to each other and was more concerned for our fragile democracy being on the edge of a very scary cliff, than being concerned about how some would react to his endorsement.

we were eating each other alive, while at the same time giving the republicans exactly what they needed for all their sound bytes. they had to do no work, because we were doing it all for them. we were giving them their hatefilled commercials.

at some point civility had to be reinserted, and i think that may have been gore's reason for doing what he did.

we have got to be unitied.

if everyone who did not have their candidate endorsed is so upset that they want to take their ball and go home, then we really have a job ahead of us.

and maybe gore knew that the time had come for a choice between a grassroots supported democratic party, or a corporate lead democratic party. it should ALWAYS be a grassroots party. we should never, ever again let them gain control like they have done.

i am hoping that clark will be the vp, which would give him the experience to take over after dean's two terms.

[Carolina]

157. same queasy

feeling here, JTS.

Gore's making a big endorsement announcement now before the process of a single primary has even occurred, is like the lead up to the Iraq war resolution which we knew was Bush's go directly to war card, bypassing further inspections and UN multilaterality.

So we the people get kicked to curb again? Our thoughts, actions and votes don't matter, might as well skip the primaries and caucuses and let senior pols decide for us.

This stinks. The punditocracy will link Gore and Dean and make this a referendum on Gore v Bush. Yet this time Bush has the power of incumbency and an even more sycophantic media.

I have that sinking sense of doom :scared:

[HoosierClarkie]

179. Same here..

This is just disgusting! I always knew we did not matter, but Gore doesn't have to throw it in our faces! Not only does this look like Gore is a pompus asshole (Dean needs me), it will remove all of the hard work each candidate has put forth to get their messages out. All we heard for months from * administration was there was not a real difference between the candidates. What are we going to hear now? Not their policies. We are gonna be talking about 2000! Shame on him. :puke:

[eileen_d]

53. I don't care who Gore endorses, or who Clinton endorses

I just care who wins in 2004, and it damn well better be a Democrat.

If you'd like a little perspective on all this Gore/Dean/Clinton/Clark hoo-hah... another National Guard unit has just been deployed to Iraq for 18 months. They were told right after their annual Christmas party.

[lastliberalintexas]

104. That's very sad to hear

I hope that they can stay safe and healthy in that hellhole Shrub is sending them.


And that does put some perspective on this, since Gore has been a very outspoken critic of the Iraq invasion while the Clintons went along with it for whatever reason. I'm not slamming Kucinich, people. Gore could have endorsed him as well if this issue was what was playing foremost in his mind.

[eileen_d]

138. Thanks... it hasn't hit the papers yet

But a close friend of mine from way back is affected... her husband is going. :( I was looking to see if there was any news on DU and fell into this Gore-endorse-fest... it just seemed so silly. Now of course I've hopped in and out of the GD/Lounge threads, but this will be weighing on my heart for a long time.

[blm]

54. What it shows is a bigger rift between Clinton & Gore than many realized.

including me. I thought it was something they'd eventually work out. For Gore to endorse a guy who he had no fondness towards in the past and who didn't even have Dean on his LONG list for VP this is very telling.

Now, it looks like the party is looking for a seismic shift one way or another and either way it looks like they expect to take the hit and lose now.

[Misinformed01]

62. Or it's a big dead fish slap in the face to Terry

McAuliffe.

Which I think is funny as shit.

Good for Gore.

[madrchsod]

60. i guess i don`t have to worry

anymore about who will win. since dean will win ,it seems really pointless to discuss anyone else.maybe who will be his vice president,cabinet,and other appointments. i won`t have to worry about voting for anyone but dean in my primaries, dam, i`m glad it`s over.

[Donna Zen]

64. Gore is not ordinary

And he knows it. Not one vote by any other average Democrat has been cast, and what shocks me is that Gore would intrude into the democratic process knowing full well what clout he has.

Good for Dean, but Gore's credibility has fallen to chump change. As an elder statesman who turned down our offer to grant him a second try, he encouraged this open field. To now step in and step on everyone else, is at best disgusting. We, not Al Gore have a right to make our own decisions. Every candidate has worked hard and deserves to be heard, the din of this endorsement drowns out their voices and the voices of their supporters.

I felt especially bad for Al Sharpton to be hit by this news while enjoying a moment to himself on the national stage. Sharpton is signing up and bringing more voters than anyone, including Al Gore.

[aquart]

147. Why would Gore think he has clout?

What Democrat stood up for him when it counted? What Senator walked with the Black Caucus?

Clout? They let him twist in the wind.

[arewethereyet]

65. its clearly intended to sink Clark

but I think the DLC realized that there needed to be a leader emerge out of all this bad blood.

they had Gore available, didn't have to get a former sitting president to break tradition. (relax people, you have to admit its an unusual circumstance.)

not sure if it will go that way or not, guess we'll see.

I have to disagree with the changes you give Clark for winning.

[MaineDem]

66. It hasn't happened yet, folks.

This sounds fishy to me.

[Padraig18]

84. It's going to happen tomorrow.

Take it to the bank.

[MaineDem]

105. You don't sound disappointed at all

You must be in the wrong thread.

Later you can gloat. Not yet, ok?

[Padraig18]

108. Since the bashing started with the initial post, ...

... I decided not to wait.

[MoonRiver]

67. If Dean gets the nomination I dearly hope he wins the presidency.

I just think Clark is more likely than Dean to beat *. I am very disappointed at Gore because I feel he simply hasn't put two and two together. :(

[HFishbine]

69. Voters: Dean best to beat Bush

The surveys in Iowa and New Hampshire show that Dean supporters there do not harbor doubts about former governor's ability to defeat Bush. Rather, it is emerging as a strong suit. Roughly a third of likely voters in Iowa and New Hampshire say Dean has the best chance of beating Bush next November, far more than say that about any other Democrat. In addition, Dean tends to run stronger among those who place a greater priority on defeating Bush than on nominating a candidate who agrees with them on the issues.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=198

[paulk]

163. do you really think the voters in N.H. and Iowa

are a reflection of the rest of the country? This survey was meaningless the first time you posted it.

[roguevalley]

177. Polls, surveys. They give you a snapshot of a moment in a particular

area among a group of voters. Here's one of my biggest
objections to this:

In Alaska, we are STILL VOTING when ELECTIONS ARE CALLED!
I am sick of this. You have no idea how terribly disheartening
it is to find out that your vote doesn't matter.

That is how I feel about a top tier official weighing in
on a candidate. I would feel the same way if it was my
candidate. Maybe you people back there have not had this
experience but people out west, on the pacific rim and
in the pacific have. It sucks.

Gore did wrong here. The gloating of the Dean camp only
tells me that the impotence I feel here is the same as it
always is when someone tells me its over before I even
get to vote.

Be on the edge and see how it feels. Maybe it will sink
in what a bad thing this was.

[Tom Rinaldo]

76. This speeds up everything

Two observations. First, a lot of Democrats who are not political junkies like us, will sit up and pay attention to the nomination battle right now, as opposed to waiting to tune in after the Iowa caucuses. They will want to know more about Dean, they will "try him on" as their potential cnadidate. They may like him, they may not. Gore endorsing Dean will probably predispose many towards supporting Dean, but now undecided Democrats will be checking Dean out sooner rather than later. Will they like what they see?

Second, I think this will quickly boil down to Dean and Clark as the only viable candidates, with Dean holding a strong edge at the moment. Lieberman is sunk, he just got his face slapped. Kerry has been sinking on his own. Edwards keeps waiting for the lift that never happens, he's only one point ahead of Clark in Iowa and behind in NH. Gephardt is out of money. Clark has a mmore than adaquate war chest. He has fervent grass roots support. Clark offers something new to the Party that can not be duplicated by any of the Washington insider candidates. The insiders just lost the biggest insider endorsement of them all, second to Clinton. Their backers are, more so than Clark's, more traditional political animals, and they will lose some momentum as a result of this. Clark is the only one capable of pouring it on and taking on the non Dean mantle.

[Hippo_Tron]

86. I could care less about what Al Gore has to say...

I don't believe that his endorsement is all that important. While he was the most influental vice president in history, I still think that the didn't accomplish anything magnificent while he held political office. The height of his influence was November 2000 because he was the strongest candidate at the time. After he lost the election (unfairly I'll admit) and decided not to run again I feel that he basically became a guy who was a very good vice president and should've won a presidential election in 2000. Jimmy Carter actually won an election in 1976 and nobody seems too concerned about who he's going to endorse.

[HFishbine]

92. I could care less

means that you have some level of caring. To indicate zero caring, one would say, "I couldn't care less."

[TacticalPeek]

103. Depends.

You should sometime hear the tone with which I can say "I care".

AKA, sarcastic reversal.

:evilgrin:

[Cleita]

87. Well, after Lieberman left Gore holding an empty

plate during the debates with his kissy, kissy 'talk' with Cheney, would you really expect Gore to endorse him after that stab in the back? And remember, Lieberman, Kerry and Edwards all voted for the Iraq war resolution. I think Gore was very much against this. I think this more than anything influenced his decision and I applaud him.

[Lexingtonian]

88. it's the Kiss of Death

so let 'em enjoy it.

[chimpymustgo]

95. LOL - I'll watch Wesley Clark with even more interest tonight.

nt

[robbedvoter]

98. The timing was improper. He is entitled to his mistakes, but why now?

I screamed that in his answering nachine - ending with "Shame on you! I told him I held him in my highest estime until a gew hours ago, but this was a slap in the face of the voters - helping the media, GOP to force a nominee on us. After I yelled, I feel much better. Clark said: "I think it's wonderful"
I think so too. Clears the field and leaves the establishment vs the insurgent candidate. Yeah!

[maddezmom]

99. hey I'm a little disappointed, but....

if this gets more people motivated to vote against bush* in the general and my guy isn't at the top, but another dem is.....that's ok by me. :) ABB

[TacticalPeek]

101. Am I in the right thread?

Or is this for "everyone who's very gleeful about Gore's endorsement"?

:shrug:

This is a strategic blunder of major proportions by Gore. He knows the special nature of his position as former VP and our last nominee, who most of us feel was cheated out of his win in 2000. This nomination was virtually his for the asking, until he bowed out last year.

His preemptive, extremely early move has emasculated the process. What could have been a productive, uniting move after a few primaries had revealed a clear, leading candidate has instead become a king-maker's stamp, and will not be seen by many supporters of other candidates as uniting or anything close.

How ironic that he OF ALL PEOPLE seems to SELECT a candidate, not only before all the votes are counted, but before ANY votes are counted!

This smells worse than the smoke-filled rooms of the old, brokered conventions, and worse than the primary schedule-jockeying aimed at preference for certain states or regions. First the candidate, then the votes.

Bah, humbug!

[MaineDem]

106. I agree with you wholeheartedly! (nt)

.

[Lexingtonian]

115. But they're a good match

I don't remember Democrats being terribly thrilled with Gore at all- as you may recall, there weren't that many people willing to go to the wall for him personally in Florida. There is a lot of guilt-driven nostalgia and other sentimentality now but Gore was truly tin-eared and without clear sense of what the 90s were really about politically- the rise of Hispanics as a political and cultural force.

The thing he shares with Dean is that they're both still living in the '80s politically and they're both Park Avenue populists. So they both retrogressivists and a match of fates.

[Gloria]

151. Well said, Tactical Peak...an UNECESSARY blunder......

Gore will serve as a lightening rod whenever it's convenient for the RW to segue into their anti-Dean stuff.

Just think of it: twofers. Dean hiding records, Gore serial liar.
The whole bit about how ELITE they are....Gore couldn't carry his own state, VT is a meaningless NE state, blah blah blah.

You'll hear the word "loser" a lot, too.

[RummyTheDummy]

107. Gore has made poor choices in the past.....

Picking Lieberman in 2000 was one. This is another. But hey, let the Deanies jump up for joy. I wish them well. I wish their canidate well and will vote for him without having to hold my nose. I've always liked him better than his supporters anyway.


So he had better win. Because if he doesn't, I'm going to have a lot of fun flaming at their expense. Crow will be served by the pound. That would be the only good thing that would come for the doom and gloom we face if Bush is elected.

[Piperay]

110. I'm very disappointed

this screws Clark and condemns us to another 4 years of chimp because I don't see how anyone but Clark can have any possibility of beating the bushitas. :cry: I have nothing against Dean, I like him but just don't think he is going to get elected in this country at this period in time, sigh. :-(

[buddhamama]

111. when it happens i'll be disappointed

but i am not going to rant or rave about it.

sure, Gore more so than any Democrat should realize the impact this endorsement will have(if it does happen)how it hurts, in the long term, the Democratic process, but what else can i say :shrug: doesn't change my mind a bit.

[BellTry]

116. The Clark supporters need to realize it is over for them

It's time to start working for Dean. Either go back to the Republican party if Dean is too "left" for you or get on the ball for the Democratic party.

Really this is totally irresponsible of the Clark supporters. Instead of all Democrats working RIGHT NOW torwards a common goal they have to continue and splinter the party agenda, while breeding internal conflict.

Right now it should be apparent to you that it is over. Please help us defeat Bush instead of working for a hopless cause.

[ibegurpard]

118. This statement wasn't necessary

And of all the candidates that still stand a chance, Clark is the one with the least to worry about.

[BellTry]

125. My point is

Dean is looking VERY strong after today. Instead of splitting resources between Clark/Dean, would it just be better to start working with one candidate right now when it is readily apparent Dean will get the nomination?

Of course they all have a "chance". Lieberman has a "chance". But it should be obvious who will get the nomination at this point.

Seems like a waste of resources that could be better going against the republicans to me.

[Padraig18]

127. Your statement was incredibly rude!

You owe ALL of Clark's supporters an apology! :grr:

I am a DEAN supporter, for the record.

[BellTry]

130. Oh please

I'll make an apology as soon as the Clark supporters who have posted FAR more "rude" comments about Dean apologize. That should take a couple hundred posts.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BellTry]

136. I am not acting like a jerk

I made a valid comment. I think the Clark supporters should drop Clark and move to Dean. It is obvious he won't get the nomination. Practically everything from polls to money to grass roots support points to this.

If you think I am a "jerk" for speaking logically and honestly after looking at the facts then that's your problem.

[eileen_d]

139. Uh... yeah you are.

It is still the PRIMARIES, no matter what you think the Gore endorsement means. I'll support Dean if he gets the nomination, but for now I'll participate in democracy, thank you.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[adadem]

150. unfortunately

you'll probably be waiting a while...there are many Dems who will not support Dr. Dean for a varity of reasons. I'm not going to be a hypocrite, like the pugs, and work for nor donate money to a candidate with whom I am ideologically opposed.

Not a Clark supporter but your comments were very rude

[Blue_Roses]

188. It's not YOUR place to tell other Democrats

what YOU think they should do! Obviously you haven't been voting very long in this process or you would know that it is a "Democratic" process and each one of us is entitled to support who we choose and for the record, I started out as a Dean supporter, but now I too, don't know.

[Padraig18]

155. Your comments ARE rude...

... and inferring that Gen/. Clark's supporters are alll Republicans is an attack in violation of DU rules.

[BellTry]

166. Again

Put up the evidence. Where did I say ALL his supporters are republicans? It is a known fact that republican groups (i.e. republicans for Clark) exist. There is no denying it. How is it against DU rules to state a fact?

[xultar]

183. There are also Republicans for Dean. Don't be so simple n/t

[Phelan]

213. yeah, lets all give up on our candidates since

so many primaries have already happened, and been won so deceisively..
Dr. Helmuth Kohl polled behind in every election (except for '83) he ever participated in and well he was chancellor for 16 years, 16/4=4... so he was re-elected 3 times...each time the polls up to election day said he was loosing... my point?
Not a single vote has been cast in the primaries...and you are implying that this is an open and shut case and obviously it isn't.
The election is 11 months away...that means after primaries we have 7 months to all play 'happy go get along'...
and for the Gore endorsement, if he would have won his own homestate we would not be having this discussion...and I would very much prefer that.

[maddezmom]

120. none of us have cast a vote yet....

and as long as Clark is in the race, I'm supporting him. And after someone wins the nomination, I'll support them, too.

[Padraig18]

124. Foul!

Your insinuation that Clark supporters are Republicans is completely uncalled fo!. You should apologize---NOW! :grr:

For the record, I am a DEAN supporter!

[BellTry]

129. Hmmm

You're right. My first post wasn't entirely clear.

When I said go back to the republican party OR support Dean I was refering to those people who will NOT vote Dean in the general election. As for the people who WOULD vote for Dean in the general election - they should start working for him at this point.

We can already see some Clark supporters who will NOT vote Dean should he get the nomination. Just look above in this thread for an example...

Of course by and large most Clark supporters would vote for Dean, but it is obvious there are some people (again see above) who will not. Who do you think they will be voting for instead, hm?

[Padraig18]

133. Virtually every Clark supporter I can think of...

... has said repeatedly that they are ABB, just like the vast majority of Dean supporters are.

[BellTry]

140. And how many Clark supporters can you think of?

Exactly how many have you asked that are ABB, and actually how many Clark supporters are there in total? You must have a high travel bill after going around the nation conducting this (extremely valid I am sure) poll of yours.

You think I am wrong? Look at mdguss just below. He's obviously another Clark supporter that is certainly NOT ABB. I guess you missed him in your poll?

I've been to Clark meetups, and I've spoken to many Clark supporters. From what I can tell there are a fair number who are NOT ABB. mdguss is just one among many.

[Padraig18]

145. Well, seeing as i've been reading posts here since last spring...

and also seeing as I signed up LONG before December 1st, I'd wager I know a great many more Clark supporters and what they think than do you.

[Piperay]

137. I think they

will probably sit it out rather than vote for chimp but most will vote for the nominee, I myself will vote for ANY Democrat who gets the nomination but until then I will work for my first choice. :-)

[Piperay]

126. WHY is it over???

There hasn't been a single primary vote cast! Anyone who watches politics knows that there is many twists and turns along the road to the nomination. I don't know why I should back Dean or anyone who is not my first choice BEFORE they are nominated! :argh: :grr:

[mdguss]

135. I would've supported Gore, but there's no way I'd support Dean:

Dean, in my estimation is not ready to lead the party. Gore was a great Vice President. He should want to fight, but Howard Dean is the wrong choice.

Here's Dean's problems:

The flag, and essentially yelling at the South (half of our electoral votes).

Waffling on medicare and the war. The look of a political oppurtunist. He's portraying himself as liberal, but he really isn't. He's pretty conservative on most issues. Given his supporters, that will come home to roost over time.

Finally,Dean has not shown an ability to help the Democratic Party.

Overall, it doesn't make much of a difference. Most of Gore's loyalists are moderates who weren't going to vote for Dean anyway. The candidates have been around for a long time. Most of the people who are actually going to vote in the primary have made up their mind. Those that didn't are unlikely to be swayed by Gore's endorsement.

Overall, I lean towards Clark. But if it's Edwards or Gephardt or Lieberman or Kerry I'll vote for them in March. Dean is a good way to lose--big time.

[adadem]

153. Plus

Dean is the Charlton Heston of the Dem party. At least I can count on the Brady folks not to give an endorsement.

[jumptheshadow]

146. Dean too "left?"

No, Dean is a fairly conservative Democrat wrapped in populist clothing. Dean is too secretive for me. I don't want another President who seals his papers and uses executive privilege. Dean is too "hot" for me. The first time he chants "You've got the power" 37 times on network TV he's going to turn off a lot of voters. By the time they hear it a 45th time they won't cast their ballots at all. Dean has been too pampered and too isolated for me. We need a guy who comes from the middle class, who knows what financial pain is like. Dean doesn't have the international policy background to take the reins of this government and do the Herculean job that needs to be done.

Clark is more liberal than Dean. And like Nixon going to China, he has the rock solid conservative resume to actually implement the visions which liberals like me have had for years.

[kiahzero]

161. "Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson?"

"It is the sound of inevitability."

As I recall correctly, the last candidate to campaign through the primaries on a platform of inevitability was Dukakis. We all know how well that one turned out. :eyes:

How about we vote, then see who wins, rather than the other way around?

[roguevalley]

180. Go away Belltry. I don't HAVE To realize anything.

I guess living for fifty years and learning doesn't
count for squat. I can remember when this was a
GOOD country.

I'm tired of being told its over. I live in Alaska.
That's all I EVER hear: "WE CALL THE ELECTION FOR _________."
Its crap.

[JPJones]

186. The only things I realize...

... are that you are an idiot. That people like you who declare a victor before a vote has been cast are worse than the Republicans in 2000. That people like you will divide the party for sure. That Dean supporters like you make me sick to my stomach. That Dean supporters, many of whom voted for Nader in 2000, now telling us to get in line behind their cult leader seems a bit hypocritical. That people assume that because they've drank the Kool-Aid, that we all must. I'm sorry, Chairman Mao, but I prefer to think for myself.

[Democat]

215. Maybe the Democratic Party will make it over for all of us?

It's not just Dean, but Gore too and the way this is all happening.

It would be hard to predict good things at this point.

Who do you like in 2008?

[Patriot_Spear]

131. Bombtrack, in all seriousness, after reading several of your posts...

What party do you belong to?

[ClassWarrior]

141. Gore shouldn't have endorsed anyone...

But I don't buy the argument that he should have waited for a primary or two. Who waits until votes have been cast to make an endorsement? That would set him up to be accused of putting his finger to the wind.

I believe that neither Gore nor any of our party leaders should endorse ANY of the candidates. Instead, they should say - ala Hillary - that any one of the nine Dems is a gazillion times better than Junior.

I mean, look at your own handle for goodness sake!

[littlejoe]

143. Quit whining

At least President Gore has the guts to back a horse before it has left the starting gate.

[Josh]

144. Here's how I feel - I'm still for Clark, but I feel comforted in knowing

that if Dean wins the nomination, Al Gore thinks he can win the Presidency. That fact will make it a much more positive campaign from my standpoint.

[Kahuna]

164. Al Gore thought Lieberman would help him win in 2000.

'Nuff said.

[GreenPartyVoter]

148. I don't like Joe

but I feel badly for him nonetheless.


I am very disappointed Gore didn't give the nod to Dennis, but ultimately not surprised that Dean got it. (Though I am surprised it came before the primaries. Perhaps this is an attempt to get folks rallying behind one candidate sooner rather than later, since the left's being so divided is a real negative the Bu$hies can pounce upon?)

[incapsulated]

167. I've thought about this and decided it's wrong

I really didn't know what I felt about the "big players" like the Clintons and Gore making endorsments, other than that I wanted them to endorse my guy if they did, of course.

Now that it has happened I've had to think about it. It's hard not to be disappointed that Gore went for Dean, and I've tried to be as objective as possible about it given that.

It's pretty obvious that Gore's endorsment is a big coup for Dean. And at this point I've decided that Clinton is right, it's just not fair to the other candidates to put that kind of juice behind someone before the voters have had their say. It just warps the process and isn't in the democratic "spirit" of things.

I know this will just sound like sour grapes to Dean supporters. But I think if they thought about the shoe being on the other foot for a moment they might understand. If Gore had backed Kerry or Clark, wounldn't they now be worrying about the outcome of certain primaries and his endorsement's effect on them? Is it right for one person to have that kind of influence on an open primary? Is it fair?

I don't know what difference this will make down the road, but I think he should have stayed out of it. Far from "unifying" the party, it will just create more bad feelings between those who support Dean and the many who support another candidate.

[paulk]

168. If this is true, then words can barely express the disappointment I feel.

I have thought all along that Al Gore's endorsement was the most important in the primaries. I never expected him to endorse anyone this early in the process. I'm shocked. I'm absolutely, completely shocked.

To endorse a candidate six weeks before the first primary shows that Al Gore, at least, has no regard for the other eight candidates and their supporters; in fact, it shows that he has no regard for a democratic process. He has to be aware that the endorsement of a politician of his stature would carry a huge weight - that he would choose to preemptly endorse before a single vote has been cast shakes my faith in him, and in the party, to it's foundations.

[cindyw]

175. If anyone needed proof that Dean people are less than gracious, here it is

All someone would have to do is read this thread. It was clearly not intended for people who were happy with the Gore thing. But here they are trashing all the other candidates and gloating.

Seriously low class Dean supporters. What makes you think that this kind of behaivior helps your candidate. It will serve only to cement and alliance between Kerry and Clark people.

At this point, when the split happens (I will be be) on the Kerry/Clark side as opposed to Dean/Gore. Unfortunate because I really like Gore. I also really agree with much of what he says. This whole thing makes little sense to me. Gore becomes more progressive and he backs DEAN. The progressive pretender!

-edited to add words in parenthesis

[meow mix]

182. were not allowed

to have any concerns i guess.
or if we do, we cant voice them...

gee that sure sounds familar.

[cindyw]

200. I dislike Dean for the same reasons I dislike Bush. Funny people cannot

see the similarities before it is too late. It was the same with Bush. Bush just gave some Dems a good feeling, the way Dean does. They disliked Gore because the media told them to. Now they like Dean for the same reasons. Sad to watch really.

[blm]

185. I'd add Gephardt and Edwards, too in there.

There have been too many lies for too long. We are not fooled.

[gulliver]

178. I don't think most people like Gore as much as we do.

This will get a lot of coverage, but it may backfire on Dean. A lot of people who voted for Gore and contributed money to his campaign (I did both) aren't too happy with the way he "fought for us" in Florida.

Gore doesn't tell me how to vote. I am disappointed in him for taking a position now. Hillary had it right. Let the process play out and work to elect the winner. Gore has it wrong.

[rucky]

187. There's a place for y'all in the Green Party

eom

[meow mix]

191. oh man..

if this gets screwed up again, ill keep that in mind ;p

[Bucky]

204. Bucky to Rucky: Yeah, there's a place for me in the Greens alright

In the toxic landfills and polluted neighborhoods that will dot this country if you help Bush get "re"elected.

Leave DU and go to GU, lurker.

[mmonk]

193. An endorsement is meant to sway some votes

but face it, will it sway yours? Get your chin up. No votes have been cast.

[AngryAmish]

196. Dean can't win?!?

Every person in the field can win, if we all pull together.

[Name removed]

201. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

205. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burning bush]

207. IMPORTANT FYI

The phone number given out in the above post is NOT Gore's personal number, but his office number, which is widely published over the Internet. The poster has not broken any confidentialities.

Just an FYI.


The Office of the Honorable Al Gore
2100 West End Avenue
Suite 790
Nashville, TN 37203
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]

[imax2268]

208. You know something...

I'm tired of all the negativity towards Howard Dean these days...he's the front runner...don't be a sore loser because your candidate is not cutting the mustard...

Listen...we all should be focused on the big issue here...and that is to oust BushCo out of the White House...My vote is going for Dean, with or without Gore's support...if Kerry, Clark, Edwards or whoever got the nod...I would vote for any one of them as well...I believe that all the candidates are great candidates and equally qualified to kick BushCo's ass out of office...

Why can't we all just get along and focus on the issue at hand...getting the "Thief-n-chief" out of office...by supporting whichever qualified candidate that may be...we are all democrats here and we need to stay focused...

So get over it if your candidate is not doing so well...there's plenty of time left...anything can happen...

just my honest opinion...

[DjTj]

209. If Gore had endorsed your candidate...

...we'd be having these exact same threads with the names switched.

I've seen Dean supporters on all these threads telling everyone to stop whining, but of course, they'd be whining just as much as everyone else is now. So, please stop using that argument.

I've been trying to think of why Gore did this, and none of the theories really make a whole lot of sense except...

...Gore thinks that Dean is the best candidate in the field.

So I think that's it. Gore likes Dean. He has a right to do that. Dean supporters have a right to be very happy. Everyone else has a right to whine.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

210. Don't be so sure..

Gore is a corporatist dem. Not a big fan of those. I disagree with Gore on a number of issues just as I do with Dean. Would I rather have had Gore as President than Bush? yeah sure. Would I rather have had my coffee table as President rather than Bush? yeah sure.

First off if Gore endorsed Kucinich I think monkies would fly out of my butt. Secondly I would try to catch them because they are pesky.


TWL

[Myra]

211. I'm disappointed by every good endorsement General Clark loses.

But I think Prez Gore has every right to endorse someone.
He knows as well as anyone what's wrong with this country.
I respect him and think his endorsement is well thought out.
I'm also greatly relieved that he dissed Holy Joe.
(Oh yeah!)

Gore's been outspoken, has given some of the best speaches
I've ever heard in the past few months, and I want to
know what he thinks as often as possible.

I'm still for General Clark.
But if Dean gets the nod, I'll feel just a little better
about it since both Gore and Molly seem to think he
has what it takes.

[FDRrocks]

212. Gore sucks, reallly.

Ask people with AIDs in Africa. He sucks. Who the hell cares. Not I. Who gives a shit what a drug company shill with no regard for the health of millions of black people cares. I don't. He can get bent. I will not vote for or care about people who have done despotic acts.

edit: a big ass DOUBLE FUCK on Gore. Seriously. He is worse than many federal level republicans.

[Q]

217. What's with the insulting language against Gore?

- Sounds like a FReeper rant to me...without regard for the truth.

[VOX]

216. Not disappointed, but terribly confused. I like Dean a lot...

and have been supporting him, donating to his campaign, etc. But I have many concerns about *any* Democratic candidate being able to beat * in 2004. It will be an uphill battle against some of the biggest money and corporate power yet.

In the past few weeks, I have been moving to the idea that Wes Clark is *the* Democratic candidate who possibly has the broadest appeal to all Americans, and therefore has the better chance to beat * in spite of what's in store.

I love Gore dearly, and have a great deal of respect for him, and I totally see where he's coming from with his endorsement of Dean. But I'm not sure that Gore has the clout he had three or four years ago.

My heart is saying Dean, but my brain is saying Clark -- and neither the heart nor the brain has the right answers all the time.