One thing about Dean is..........

[Wetzelbill]

The Dems are in bad need of a movement and Dean certainly has a movement behind him.

I've heard him speak in person and he sure does get a guy riled up. I share a closer vision of the U.S. and world with Kucinich, but I'd be plenty happy to vote for Dean next November were he to be our nominee. No doubt.

[Cha]

1. Thank you and I feel the same about

Dennis Kucinich! :toast:

[Hobarticus]

2. Agreed.

Then again, the Dems could put a turnip up, and I'd support it nonetheless.

Come together, folks.

[jmaier]

3. Only happy to

once we have a Democratic nominee. Until then, I'm not to fond of the implication that since I'm not supporting Howard Dean that somehow I'm doing "injury" to the Democratic party. Have we become Republicans all of a sudden?

[Bombtrack]

4. Kucinich is against a middle class tax raise, dean's for one

Just because Clark's campaign isn't all about visceral negativity doens't mean it's not a movement

[creativelcro]

5. being for a middle class tax "raise" does not mean that it

would be unfair... I'm happy to give my $300 back to get better services etc... What bugs me is the "marriage penalty", because it is unfair. I hope it will be removed for good.

[Eric J in MN]

6. How do we convince Dean to endorse Kucinich's Progressive Tax Act of 2003?

Dean would win if he said he wanted to lower taxes on the middle-class.

Some middle-class people would have an increase of $2,000 under Dean's current plan, as the Republicans are happy to point out.

Kucinich's Progressive Tax Act of 2003, which raises taxes on the rich while lowering them on the middle-class, could win the election.

Can someone talk to the Dean campaign about this?

[creativelcro]

9. what is middle class ? If you get a 2k increase and your

gross is 200K, that is acceptable...

[sandnsea]

14. Dennis' tax cut chart

From the PDF link

Lowest 20% $0-16,000 $91 tax cut
Second 20% $16-29,000 $460 tax cut
Third 20% $29-46,000 $863 tax cut
Fourth 20% $46-76,000 $1,544 tax cut
Next 15% $76-151,000 $3,375 tax cut
Next 4% $151-353,000 $7,439 tax cut
Next 1% $353,000 + $59,292 tax cut

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/oh10_kucinich/summary-of-tax-bill.pdf

I do not think this includes the child tax credits, some of which are refundable, either. People DID get tax cuts.

[quaker bill]

22. True

But my kid's tuition went up 10 percent, my real estate taxes went up, and the availability of service from government went down through layoffs.

All in all, I lost money on the deal and according to this chart I should be well in the black. I can never figure it out, but somehow whenever republicans cut my taxes, I end up paying the government more money. So much for personal observation. Answer this:

Why do liberals argue for borrow and spend economics?

The republican strategy, per Grover Norquist, has been to 'starve the beast'. Progressive programs are expensive. Countries that have programs like universal health care, universal college education, or extensive scholarships for the underprivledged, a real social safety net, and environmental protection with teeth, also have a much higher marginal tax rate than the US.

If you want these programs, truly want them, and want them to be properly staffed and funded, be prepared to pony up a good chunk of your paycheck for them. Twenty years of tax cuts to 'starve the beast' must be undone. It cannot be done on credit.

[Bombtrack]

10. did you mean "DECREASE"

I think that is what he calls for

or you should say, an increase of $2000 in taxes

[sandnsea]

15. Choose a candidate who has it

There's already candidates who aren't going to raise taxes on the middle class. There are candidates with better environmental, health care, jobs and education programs than Dean. Why not choose the person who already has the best plans?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

26. easy!

They don't have the most money, new campaign offices opening each day, better name recognition, more media coverage, and more commercials in primary states! YOU SILLY GOOF!


:P

TWL

[Bombtrack]

8. And I'm sure there were people that were happy to do so in 1984

it just so happens they only made up the bare majority in one state.

I don't know what better "services" you are referring to, but Kucinich, Clark, Lieberman, Edwards, and Kerry all have plans to generally improve government, healthcare, corporate accountability, etc without raising taxes. Some have better education plans depending on who are, some have better healthcare plans according to who you are. But the one truth is they aren't proposing an increase in middle class income taxes, which is what most voters prefur

[quaker bill]

23. Nibbling at the edges on credit

Charging our expenses to the next generation does not create social justice. It is an injustice.

[jpgpenn]

7. too bad its a movement

many of us life long Dems don't wish to be part of.

[Scott Lee]

11. Things change.

Maybe the times and the democratic party as it's changing do not fit your mind anymore. It's a possibility. People change parties all the time.

I can gaurantee that if the Dem party keeps carrying on like it's used to, it soon won't be a party at all.

[sandnsea]

16. Change is good

But I kind of have the feeling that young people don't quite grasp what they're giving up in order to get that change they think they want. And I sometimes think they don't understand ALL the code words, like "states' rights". Privatization was all the rage last election cycle and there have been some people on this board who have supported private social security accounts, vouchers, and the like. Things can go frighteningly awry when you run head-long for "change". Especially when anger is driving it.

[dweller]

12. I plan to wait until i get to vote

in the primaries before i can jump on a single do or die candidate bandwagon.
Perfecting the vision first, and listening to the heart is not a bad idea in the meantime.
peace,
dp

[Bertrand]

13. Dean isnt leading anything significant

every once in a while, when a Political Party does bad, it picks a person it believes represents its core values (In this case, possibly Dean who has successfully lied about himself as representing the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party") to be sacrificed and slaughtered in the General Election as an attack on the Party. Dean isnt leading any movement except the disgruntled left, which is a decreasing minority by the day, and using his money to brainwash people into the cult or accepting it, since resistence is futile.

[quaker bill]

17. Curious

But the people I met there didn't seem like the disgruntled left to me. Having been in the progressive movement for the last 30 years or so, I have met and know many on the disgruntled left. Most of those I am still in contact with are supporting Kucinich or Nader.

Besides the disgruntled left I know and have enjoyed the company of on occasion over all these years does not have that much money.

Dean seems too conservative for some, a curious phenomena of the disgruntled left for others. I know that in fact there is something entirely different going on there.

[Bertrand]

25. you didnt read what i said

otherwise your post wouldnt be redundant. Dean rose with his anti-iraq war rhetoric, which the progressive communitly latched onto because they felt like he voiced their views within the mainstream when alot of washington politicians didnt. Dean then shifted himself away from being a "fiscal conservative" into the stereotypically classic pandering tax n spend liberal, which helped cultivate his rise to the point he currently has a 29% lead over the nearest competitor with people that identify themselves as "liberals." Dean is the "liberals" candidate, which speaks not only about Deans Campaign, but the subgroup of those that identify themselves as "liberals"

[eileen_d]

18. Despite my bitchiness today, I will support Dean

if he gets nominated, and I will spread the good word like a zealot.

A lot of my bitchiness today is related to my good friend's husband leaving for Iraq next month... 18 effing months.

[pruner]

20. I'm sorry to hear about your friend's husband…

I'm also sorry if I've ruffled your feathers today.

[quaker bill]

19. You are correct

There is a movement. The people I have met there have, for the larger part, never been involved in a political campaign before. Some probably ddn't even vote in 2000.

This town has not seen anything like this, for at least the last 30 years. It is growing with every meeting.

Dean already has more volunteers working for him here and now than Gore / Lieberman had on election day in 2000.

There are those that do not like this and will continue to attempt to deny it, but it will not matter. This thing has a life of it's own and it is unlikely in the extreme that it will be denied.

[frank frankly]

24. you're right

we may evolve, after all.

i feel good today.

thank you, Al Gore. thank you.

[slinkerwink]

21. thank you for saying that.