Clark Supporters, Interested Others: Is this Primary race over already?

[Jerseycoa]

I was among the first here at DU to congratulate Dean supporters on Al Gore's endorsement. It's an important endorsement and a credit to their candidate. But, seriously, does it mean the rest of us are to surrender our own races?

Since Hardball ended tonight, I've been reading posts by the hundreds that say, not only the primary is already won by Dean, but that all good Democrats will now abandon their hopes and dreams and rally around the Dean flag.

This is not happening.

Wes Clark is not running for VP.

Wes Clark is our candidate for President of the United States tonight, as he was this afternoon before the Gore endorsement leaked. Anybody who wants is free, naturally, to go over to the Dean campaign, anybody who truly feels it is the right thing to do, and anybody who believes the repetitive chant emanating from every other thread that the primary race is over.

It is not over for me. Let this be understood. Is it over for you?

:dem:

[arewethereyet]

1. no, not at all

in fact it could just be getting interesting. finally a substantive element instead of bickering.

[LibDemAlways]

2. Not over for me either.

I could go either way and would love to see the two of them combine forces. But it's not over by a longshot. Not a single primary vote has been cast.

[CMT]

3. of course not

as a Dean supporter it is a very significant endorsement. But the votes have yet to be cast.

[maddezmom]

4. Hell NO.....

There hasn't been a vote cast yet!!!! I'll fall in line only after my guy decides he is out. Until then I'm Clark frst...ABB second.

[Field Of Dreams]

5. No Way!

I'll just work harder for Clark and vote for whoever the eventual nominee is.

[Jerseycoa]

26. That's my plan, too (eom)

[BootinUp]

6. Uh....Negatory...Flight Director...All systems are green

Its a Go for Clark

[dutihampi]

7. Far from over...

In most recent polls Dean only has a 1 to 2 % lead on General Clark. This primary will be interesting and close but far from over.

[pruner]

11. the most recent poll shows Dean with an 8% lead over Clark…

With the Dean campaign gaining momentum, a new CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows Dean widening his front-runner status among the eight other Democratic candidates.

The poll showed that 25 percent of registered Democrats support Dean as their nominee, with retired Gen. Wesley Clark in second with 17 percent.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/08/elec04.prez.gore.dean/index.html

[Jerseycoa]

12. So that's a yes, Pruner? (eom)

[pruner]

121. no… I don't think it's over

as many others have noted, not a single vote has been cast.

I was just posting that info to correct the 1% to 2% figure.

:-)

[BootinUp]

16. I want to see the full poll information on this

This is on "registered democrats" which is probably going to be different than likely voters. Also the other national poll data today showed a tight race.

[xultar]

32. Attention Clarkies, those of you who have not signed up @

CCN please sign up.
That is where we need togather and discuss ways that we can all get involved to ensure that our choice isn't taken from us.

The thing htat makes me the most angry is that no votes have been cast. To me this is just as bad as Florida. My choice has been taken away from me before I had my chance.

Now, I'm gonna take it back. So all Clarkies, PLEASE go over to CCN, sign up and PM me here with your blog names. We gotta get this party started!!

[dfong63]

119. no one stole your choice, you can vote for the dem-of-convenience

... and GOP fundraiser Clark, if you want to. unlike the FL 2000 election where people's real votes were really taken away. get a grip.

[Suzyhart]

113. Link for full poll reports

pollingreport.com tracks polls, makes it easy to see trends and compare, also shows who would beat GW.....

50 days for Wes' great face and character to shine.... while Dean stumbles and has to go on the defensive

Plug on, Clarkies, turn off these cyber-rags, and go knock on doors... talk to the real people.

Those of us who cruise these aisles don't really make the world, we just make more noise.

It's the grayhairs who will make the polls... and they are wise to the games... they know character when they see it.
No, it ain't over.... it's just beginning.

Thank you Wes Clark for answering the Draft movement. Bless you.

[sandnsea]

41. So what?

I don't care if my dog polls at 80%, still wouldn't make him a good president. And if he carried in a bag of money with ten million dollars in it, he stole it. Money and polls won't mean anything in 2005. The actual person sitting in the White House is what will mean something and we better have someone who knows what in the hell they're doing. Preferably someone who has had consistent principles their entire life.

And, newsflash, Howard Dean will not be sending out surveys to see whether his Deaniacs think he should go to Japan or Nairobi first. It's all nice and wonderful to feel like an important part of the political process, it is our country after all. But I want the candidate who has actually put people first his entire career; not one who is just waking up to the concept now.

[Clark Can WIN]

74. Does that make you a bandwagon fan? Pruner?

curious, since you used to support Clark and all.

[jmaier]

8. I'm ready

to admit that Dean is now clearly the frontrunner -- money, new cnn/gallup/usa today poll lead, IA & NH lead. However, no votes have been counted yet. Some of the candidates have limited time to step up by Feb 3rd. I'm also concerned that Howard Dean wears on some people after a bit. I looked hard at his campaign over the summer and was pretty impressed but the more that I actually heard him speak the less content I was with the Dean option.

I'll be honest that I had similar qualms about the rest of the field. Finally, by early November, Wes Clark won me over. I wish he had started campaigning in Jun/July, but you can't change history.

I do believe the Howard Dean has run a masterful campaign and has pioneered a NEW type of campaign process. It's pretty exciting to watch. HOWEVER, I think Wes Clark represents a NEW type of leadership. That is a bit more important to me.

But kudos to Dean & Trippi -- they are like watching a 10-ring circus!

[Jerseycoa]

24. Frontrunner

When Dean is ahead in polls by 20-30 points, I'll call him the frontrunner, too. He's the frontrunner in New Hampshire, so far. Undecided is giving him a good run, too.

I agree with you about Dean's campaign. It's something splendid.

[cally]

9. No, if many other candidates drop out

it will help Clark. Narrowing the field sets up a clearer distinction between candidates.

[arewethereyet]

10. nothing like a spur in the rump to motivate huh ?

Deanists may not fully understand this endorsement or perhaps Al doesnt

[blm]

13. Nope. I plan to get a REAL Democrat with

progressive ideals and a record to match. Dean doesn't fit that bill. Others do.

[Cogito]

14. I resent the hell out of Gore for trying to shortcircuit the process

Some endorsements are different than others. Gore's endorsement of Dean really just serves to shut down the process even before anyone has a chance to vote. I think Gore should have held off from a public endorsement and, instead, worked quietly to get some of these candidates out of the race. Perhaps it is up to us to send a message to Gore that many of us were none too happy with his judgement in 2000 as he failed to capitalize on unprecedented peace and prosperity in order to win election and that his bad judgement continues to this day. We can do that by rallying around Clark as the one with the best chance to beat Bush.

[Jerseycoa]

20. How democratic is this?

"Gore's endorsement of Dean really just serves to shut down the process even before anyone has a chance to vote."

This is exactly what I feel. I heard Gore describes it as an "impact moment." How cynical. I thought we were all in this for more democracy, not less.

[Eloriel]

30. I think Gore's endorsement sort of balances out

the highly inappropriate behind the scenes pulling of strings of the Clintons in favor of Clark, to try to stop Dean. They have no business doing that -- let the people decide, don't "rig" the election (or try to) to short-circuit the people's choice (whoever it is). An ENDORSEMENT, OTOH, is something entirely different: up front, out in the open, honest, straightforward and personal.

And no, inanswer to the orig question -- ths primary is far from over.

Eloriel

[tameszu]

48. So I expect that you will smile and applaud Clark

if Hillary endorses him?

Somehow, I doubt it--and I think you would be singing the exact opposite tune if Gore had endorsed Clark. And your fantasies about Clark being a tool of the Clintons is very rich. If Clark were a tool of the Clintons, he would be doing a lot better than he is right now.

[creativelcro]

15. Clark: here is a summary:

It's over

[tameszu]

49. Oh, hey, look

Another Dean supporter for democracy.

I like Dean a lot, but, boy is going to be hard working for him if you folks keep this up.

[Jerseycoa]

59. Be nice to creativelcro

He or she posted one of those wretched anti-clark links, but had the sense to quickly edit. I'm feeling kindly. I guess it's because of the Clark-love, not that I was ever really worried. :grouphug:

[neverforget]

134. I hear ya. Some Dean supporters are downright fanatical in their

loyalty and that REALLY turns me off. However, I will gladly vote for Dean should he be the nominee.

[DancingBear]

58. Big money says it's 50:1

against you ever posting anything of substance.

[kiahzero]

17. Hell No!

To the bitter end - Clark winning, or leaving the race.

[HuckleB]

18. I'm a Dean supporter, and the primary is a long, long way from over.

[Donna Zen]

65. Gore's revenge

Stealing an election. This is not a long way from over, we just don't get to have our votes counted again. Way to go Al!

[HuckleB]

87. Huh?

What on earth are you talking about?

[Donna Zen]

97. Gore knows exactly what he is doing

The top Dems have kept out of the primary process to let the voters decide. Gore knows that with his clout he can swing the entire primary. Instead of doing the right thing, he just stole this election. It's now all about Gore.

If he wanted to win a primary, he should have stepped up and run.

[jpgpenn]

19. No ,

The fun has just started. Stick around for the best part!!

[Ilsa]

21. My husband say NO WAY!

and he hasn't been active. He said he still thinks that Dean isn't going to get it.

You bet I'll vote for and work to get Dean elected if he is the nominee, but we have got to get the media to stop crowning him king already. It freaks me out, thinking about how Rove might be licking his lips, thinking he Dean to go after vs Clark.

No. It's not over for me, either. I might have to go online and send Clark more money tonight!

[Jerseycoa]

29. That reminds me

$59


:dem:

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

22. To say it's over is an insult to all Americans.

If Bill Clinton came out tomorrow an endorsed Clark would the Deany-Boppers give up? I think not.

Let the system play itself out and I'll vote for whoever eventually gets the Democratic nomination.

[Donna Zen]

71. Clinton

For all of his many faults, has too much respect for the primary process to do that.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

133. Too bad Gore doesn't respect the primary process.

If he wanted a say in it he should have run. History is on his side. Every presidential candidate who won the popular vote but lost the electoral vote and ran again four years later won the second election.

[teevee]

23. gore can only vote once.

so no, it's not over, and for himto endorse a candidate this early in teh process (before one primary vote is cast) shows you where he wants the power to be: in his hands.

sickening.

the people know who can beat bush, and they know it's not howard dean.

If he gets the nomination, you will lose this 26 year old to the greens forever.

[Habibi]

79. Oh, baloney

Gore merely wants his supporters to accept that he's not going to run, and to encourage people to support Dean.

He's not a fucking Republican, you know; he has some principles.

[Donna Zen]

104. he has some principles

Not in my book. Where was Gore while they were writing the Patriot Act, raping the environment, or passing tax cuts for the wealthy? Remember how he said he was going to stand up for us?

Gore's supporters number in the millions and millions. He intruded into the primary process when he should have just run himself.

[K8-EEE]

25. Al Can't Appoint The Nom

I know it's "important" but heck...it's really not that important to me, Al made so many "loser" decisions in his own race! Not that I dislike Dean, not at all, but I just think it's rude to do this before any of the primaries.

[carpediem]

27. Definitely NOT over. n/t

n/t

[SayitAintSo]

28. Gore helps with the base ... but what about the swing ?

Is Gore's endorsement really that great a thing for this race ? That was my first thought when I heard the news. And why now ?

It ain't over ... far from it.

[Kahuna]

37. Riiiiight! All of those swing voters he forced upon bush.

Whew! Whatta move. Can Al campaign with Dean in the South? I don't think so.

[jumptheshadow]

123. Yeah, Gore will help in Tennessee

The future of this nation is worth the fight.

[in_cog_ni_to]

31. It's not over

until the fat lady sings! Or in this case... The VERY handsome man sings! :7

Are you kidding? Clark keeps going up and up in the polls. Each day is better than the day before and February is a LONG way off. Just imagine what he can do from now 'til then!

I have a story for you that may cheer you up. Tonight my husband came home and said he has ONE patient he "talks politics" with. The guy is a RWer who LOVED Bush. He was all for the Iraq invasion and believed every word the shrub said about WMD. WELL! Tonight he walked in my hubby's office and my husband looked at him and said..."I told you so! I told you he was lying. There's NO WMD." The guy said..."I know, I know! Now, WHAT are we going to do about this? How are we going to get out of Iraq?" My husband says..."WE have a 4 Star General who's going to get us out of there." The guy said..."I'm SOOOO happy to hear you say that because THAT is who I'M going to vote for."

Ha! How's that for a pick me up? One more cross over vote for the General! EVERY DAY I hear people change from Dean OR Bush. Clark is going to be our next President. I just know it. Dean cannot win and the closer it gets to the GE and the bigger the gap between him and Bush in the polls..people will wake up and smell the coffee! Clark is the ONLY man who can beat the shrub and I thought that was our main goal here....to get his ass out of the WH.

[roguevalley]

64. thank you, incognito. that is my experience too. :) so it isn't over yet.

[Kosmos Mariner]

33. Hell No!

This race is just getting good! I think Wes Clark is just a natural leader, he has "IT". The way he connects to people is incredible. We need a leader who is going the most out of everyone. The Clark train is leaving the station, All aboard!! By the way, if Gov. Dean is such a lock to be our nominee and prez, why did Gore feel he had to come off the sidelines and interject?? Isn't Howie an unstoppable political force? Deanies ask yourselves that. :-)


:dem:

[Donna Zen]

34. Another stolen election

Al Gore had a clean run at the presidency. He was also offered this nomination, but refused. All of the candidates have worked their butts off, and most are much more liberal than Dean.

If Gore wanted to win the nomination, he should have been up front about it and gotten into the race. If this is the end, then Gore's revenge is another stolen election before one vote is counted.

Kudos to Dean...and FU to Al.

My three top picks are my three top picks. Other than feeling violated by the US election process, nothing has changed.

[Kahuna]

35. I'm sure the bushistas are hi-fiving tonight. The guy who lost...

every state in the south including his own endorses Dean. :eyes:

[Scott Lee]

40. This is bad for Dean....how?

Gore will help grab the urban areas he did when he ran - Dean will grab an indetermined amount of southern states and the west that Gore couldn't get; plus he won't lose his home state. It looks like a net sum gain to me.

[beawr]

51. Dean's home state ain't squat

Urban areas would vote for Rush Limbaugh if he appeared under the "democrat" label. Dean will grab NOTHING in the South - I mean, skiing after claiming a bad back..they just LOOOOVE to Ski down south...even IF the NRA loves Dean, it won't help

[Kahuna]

53. 3 ECs? Please.

:eyes:

[in_cog_ni_to]

52. Personally,

an endorsement for a candidate by a particular person has NEVER swayed MY vote. If people are undecided, I don't think Gore endorsing Dean is going to make their minds up for them. Just isn't going to happen.

[roguevalley]

69. urban areas aren't the problem in my opinion for Dean. The south and

rural states. He has to cross over. If he is chosen in the
primaries, I will vote for him but my heart isn't in it.
AND my father's family is from New Hampshire, Colebrook to
be exact. I LIKE yankees. But the south and the west cannot
be discounted. Clark can carry them.

[TacticalPeek]

82. Prediction of an amateur election watcher:

If Dean gets the nod, he will carry the same southern states that Dukakis carried.

Personally, I have admired Dean since I saw him interviewed on c-span years ago when he was gov and hosted a national governors conference, and I began hoping he would become a 'national' democrat.

Its impossible not to admire Dean's trail-blazing campaign. But that's a different thing from leadership, which is what the nation needs so badly and what Clark can deliver in spades.
Clark's performance with Tweety tonight was the best extended media appearance I have seen since Clinton. We need him as our candidate.

There is still a fair chance that Shrub's gang will self-destruct before next November. If that happens, Dean (or other candidates) would have a chance to win. But hope is not a plan.

Absent said self-destruction, IMHO Clark is the only one who could crush aWol by adding independents and disaffected R's to the dem column.

Oh, if its Dean, I'll certainly support and vote for him. But I am convinced that my loyal-vote-for-Dean will go into the loyal-vote-for-Dukakis bucket. And that result will be more tragic this time, since with Dukakis' loss we still had some Congressional restraint on Raygun, and this time I hate to picture the Congressional slaughter we could endure.

[in_cog_ni_to]

45. Good point.

That was a huge embarrassment in 2000 and should never have happened. That's another "plus" Clark has...the SOUTH. And the military vote. AND the Veteran vote. AND the senior citizen vote. It ain't over. Period.

[Carolina]

128. touche!

Gore's negatives could rub off on Dean and actually HURT him and us, the party.

Al should have put up or shut up. But tin ear and bad instincts surface once again. Dean was doing just fine without him, in fact he was on a roll and I say that as a Clark supporter.

I warmed to Dean after the performances in FL and SC this past weekend but Al just pissed me the hell off. I am now having a house party for Clark on the 18th and plan to do all I can to help him win SC and the nomination.

Go home Al, your time in the spotlight is PAST.

[Scott Lee]

36. Hell no

In fact it might be a bloodbath. I'm still not convinced that even Gore's endorsement of Dean will keep away some kind of nasty backhanded coup by the superdelegates to push aside Dean for one of their annointed Entitled ones.

I want this to play out as long and hard as possible so it can galvanize the party. IF it can galvanize the party.

[oasis]

38. It's going down to convention time. Then it will be a 3 horse race.

[roguevalley]

72. it will be brokered. I want to be a delegate from Alaska but that is

harder than finding a needle in a haystack. I would
kill to be a super delegate.

[MoonRiver]

39. I won't go, no way. I'm here for Clark all the way to Boston!

:loveya: General Clark

[RobertSeattle]

42. Not completely, but

...We need to fix this ridiculous Presential Primary System. It needs to go national instead of this silly Iowa/NH system.

[meow mix]

43. just entering new phase

dean can have his endorsements.

i have faith in the clarks brilliance and extreme-wonderfulness.
if he keeps doing what he's doing, he can win.

definetly not over.

[laruemtt]

44. hell no!

i'm with wes till the end and i STILL think he has an extraordinarily good chance of winning. GO WES!!

[Crewleader]

46. It's Not Over....

General Wesley Clark has the leadership it takes to win and I believe there is alot of Americans that feel the same way. One of the biggest issues that are facing us is the War on Terrorism and with General Clark's experience and his relationship being a Leader of United Nations, he'll bring our much needed allies back together. And have the positive relations with high respect in dealing with a exit strategy from Iraq and have the UN over see it.

I rather have someone like General Wesley Clark completely out of the loop of being a politician, but a soldier of the people that he truly is to lead us into peace and a comfortable alliance for protecting it.He'll make our homeland security much stronger then it is now.

I think Al Gore's endorsement will not hurt any chances for General Wesley Clark because he covers all the important issues that the American people need to hear, foreign and domestic fronts. He attracts many Americans even alot of the disgruntle republicans that are disgusted with Bush's policies and of course many veterans',they are ready to serve the General. Morale would be return in our Arm Forces with a Commander and Chief like General Wesley Clark with confidence and respect. And all Americans will feel more secure with a President like General Wesley Clark in the oval office, giving his first thoughts for the people and by the people, he will lead.

[Kahuna]

54. Now Dean can lose every southern state like Gore did...

:eyes:

[cmd]

56. Just thinking of you, Crew

I was wondering where you stood. I'm in complete agreement with you and know that Clark would bring to our country the same excitement and pride that Kennedy brought into office. He has it all. Maybe it's a generation thing. We've been there and know what it takes. Happy Holidays, cmd

[DancingBear]

62. Definitely generational - to a large degree anyway

Too tired now for a missive - maybe in the next day or two. Suffice it to say for now that idealism wins hearts and realism wins elections.

[Jerseycoa]

66. Lovely Thought

"...a soldier of the people that he truly is to lead us into peace and a comfortable alliance for protecting it"


:dem:

[beawr]

47. It Better Not Be

Gore is SUCH a loser that he lost even when he won. I think his endorsement isn't worth the air it uses up. Clark is the only candidate that can beat Bush. The rest of them had better wake up and smell the damn coffee. I do not want to vote for another loser.

[Legate]

50. I'm in it....

till its over either way.

[Kahuna]

55. Actually, Gore's endorsement may present a blaring...

snapshot to voters of just how unelectable Dean is. Birds of a feather....

[scipan]

63. thanks, but I think

just about everyone remembers the Florida recount, even if they don't feel the same as DUers. Gore unelectable???

[dfong63]

120. you call Gore and Dean losers, but Clark has never won a single election

Gore and Dean have won elections, Clark hasn't. Clark is at best a wild gamble, and that's being charitable. not everyone in this country worships the uniform.

[oasis]

138. Clark is our BEST chance to beat Bush. It's about character, not uniforms.

Most people have respect for those who now serve and have served our nation in the past. I have a feeling you already knew that.

[BootinUp]

57. I don't pay attention to endorsments...unless they're for Wes!

That was a cool answer. I should have guessed that was what he would say.

[Gloria]

60. Not over for me, either! I'm hopping mad, with only 6 weeks to the

big primaries....
I'm a Clark supporter, but I've been happy to see Kerry starting to kick some butt!
The more voices kicking Bush's butt, the better. To "anoint" Dean so close to the primaries really pisses me off. Gore made a big mistake; he's throwing a wrench to the process, deliberate or not; and he's giving the Rethugs a field day. I bet they'll use Gore as a "wedge" to stir up their base even more. ANd, of course, the media will devote even less time to the other candidates.

So, I'm damned mad now, even madder than before....

[Sugarbleus]

136. I've been bothered by this too..

I was upset when the union (SEIU), to which I belong, endorsed him waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back! I felt it was too early to be endorsing anyone. They did it without MY OPINION. It was akin to the AARP thingy that took place recently. I let the union have a piece of my mind..eh hemm.
I don't like Dean (he's too yuppie)--he does NOT appear to represent anyone in the underclass--frankly, none of them do except maybe DK (but he's too green); However,I will vote for Dean if he is nominated just to get the damned conservatives out of the White house!
I thought the debates tonight were pretty good..I learned a lot more from each of the candidates. It was good enough to make my head spin as to whom to vote for..EEK lol It's going to be intense AND exhilerating from here on out.
NO, it's not over..........................:shrug:

[roguevalley]

61. No it isn't. I can't tell you how amazing this is at my house: my mom let

me put Clark stickers on the bumper of her car. Never
in 72 years has she done this. She hates bumper stickers.
It isn't over for me one bit.

[mmonk]

67. No

not one vote has been cast.

[scipan]

68. As a Dean supporter,

Dean doesn't have the nomination wrapped up yet. Keep supporting your candidate.

[Jerseycoa]

77. Thank you for the encouragement (eom)

[Clark Can WIN]

70. What a croc of Bull

Not a single vote has been cast and the leading Democrat in the race remains Mr. Undecided.

Lay down the fight? I don't think so Jack.

Others are certainly entitled to their own opinions but it is my long held opinion that Dean is the favored candidate of the Republican party for a pretty damn good reason. With Dean as our candidate they feel assured of a Republican landslide with coatails and I am inclined to agree with them.

This one is too important. I want a winner. I want Clark and I will fight, scratch and claw until he's leading Gert by the arm into 1600 Pensylvania Avenue.

[Larry in KC]

73. I just contributed to Clark's campaign

It's not over.

My birthday contribution just now, for Wes Clark's 59th birthday coming up on Dec. 23rd: $10 x 59 years = $590

Frankly, this is enough to hurt on my teacher's salary.

It doesn't hurt as much as the harm four more years of a Bush administration would do to my students' future.

Closer to home, and therefore even more important to me, it doesn't hurt as much as the harm four more years of a Bush administration would do to my own daughter's future.

Please join me in supporting General Clark, the one candidate who can beat Bush and who will make an extraordinary president, for our kids' future. The donation amount will only hurt for a little while. The good we do could last for generations to come!

[Clark Can WIN]

84. Welcome Larry!

I'm next door in NE. Good to have you here on DU.

[BootinUp]

85. Welcome to DU Larry

Great to have you here.

[TacticalPeek]

86. Bravo!

[DemExpat]

137. Welcome, Larry, and thanks for the contribution!

:kick:

DemEx

[FXDS]

75. No Way

This just inspired me to send my favorite candidate (Kerry) another $100.00 I also ordered a hat, shirt, bumper stickres etc. I support all of our canidates, let the best canidated win!

[CalebHayes]

76. Hope not!

[ramapo]

78. Who cares what Al Gore says???

Really, what is the big deal?

Gore supports Dean. Good for Dean, there's one vote for him.

Let's see what the voters think. I know my vote does not change based on somebody's endorsement of a candidate. I vote based on what I see in a candidate over the long course of the campaign.

Even the NH campaign has a ways to go.

So relax everybody. Except for us political-junkies, nobody is going to take much notice of Gore's "Big" endorsement of Dean. I'm not even sure that this is such a positive development for Dean.

Time will tell.

[robsul82]

80. Dude, who said it was over?

Deaniacs like myself were CELEBRATING, yes, but I don't see a ONE thread that said "IT'S OVER!", just that creativeclro guy or whatever on this one.

Later.

RJS

[Julien Sorel]

81. The media are likely interested in

squeezing as much drama as they can out of the primary. It sells. That means a Clark-Dean or Edwards-Dean or (less probable), Gephardt-Dean duel in the primary. This always seems to happen -- remember McCain 'coming out of nowhere' to win New Hampshire, despite the fact that he was leading there 6 weeks before the primary was held; the Bradley - Gore thing in the same year; Tsongas-Clinton in '92: and so on. There's going to be some kind of fight left if the media can help it, and Clark is well-funded and is growing as a candidate every day, so he will be well-positioned to capitalize on any opportunities. It isn't over by a mile, unless all this bandwagon jumping affects South Carolina.

[artemisia]

83. gore endorsement

as a clark supporter, i was very depressed when i first heard
the news. i felt deflated and hopeless that anyone had a
chance to beat dean.  i wouldn't have minded so much if he had
endorsed the gepper or someone else i felt was qualified.  but
i really don't believe howard dean is qualified for the job
he's applying for.

anyway, so i was depressed and deflated until i saw we clark
on hardball tonight.  it wasn't just how well he performed,
but the electricity and enthusiasm in the crowd.  there is a
lot of enthusiasm out there for clark, and for other
candidates.

after hardball and then talking to dem and progressive friends
and relatives this evening, i'm convinced that the al gore
endorsement is not going to be nearly as influential as
predicted.

not a single vote has been cast yet.  if al gore's opnion is
dispositive of the outcome, then why should anyone vote at
all.

clark is right: running for office is different than
governing.  dean is good at running for office. he's good at
raising money and getting endorsements and tapping into the
public's anger.   but i don't believe he's qualified to
govern.  that requires different skills.  it requires
diplomacy skills, administrative skills, a clear vision for
the future and the planning skills necessary to acheive those
goals.

as voters begin to compare resumes and not just rhetoric, al
gore's endorsement will be less and less important.

[meow mix]

90. hi =)

*waves*
me too!! i felt tons better after watching that.
reminded me of what deans up against, this will just be a good warm up for mister clark.

he can beat bush, and he can beat dean easier.
(even with his flakey, king-maker endorsements)

[TacticalPeek]

91. Welcome to DU, artemisia!

And to the battle royale!

:toast:

[Tatiana]

131. Welcome to DU artemesia!

:hi: And let me say, excellent first post!

Thanks everyone! This thread has really made my evening.

[robbedvoter]

88. Until earlier today I adored Gore. Now I loathe him.

I even think he was a jerk to poor Lieberman - who, promissed not to run if Gore does and kept his word. I will not cry for Joe - it's karmic justice for him, but it doesn't make Gore any less of a jerk.
Clark is now the outsider: we run against W, the media and the pary establishment. And giess what? we keep growing! I just came from an evening at the Clark's headquarters - zooming with energy, activity and creativity. We finished cursing Gore in the first 3 minutes by the elevator door, then we went on with work.
So, I'll let you
I'm busy! keep your loser, we are moving out! Dismissed.

[Carolina]

130. gosh RV

I didn't know anyone else who felt as strongly pissed as I did. I mean, Gore is evoking in me the 'curse response' that is my usual reflexive action toward Bush (yikes). Anyway, he has motivated me to work even harder for Wes Clark, too. Another check in the mail and hosting a house party next week (12/18).

[Texas_Dem]

89. no Sir...

this is not over by one endorsement before any votes are cast.

Anyone who has listened to Wes Clark for more than 5 minutes knows that this man is extraordinary, intelligent, and a true leader. These type of people only come along once or twice in a lifetime and you can only hope that you can be a part of that in some small way.

I have supported Wes Clark back in the Draft days and so have many others. We are loyal and committed to getting him elected. We are supportive and enthusiastic about the man - not just the cause.

We know that this man, this very extraordinay man, can and will defeat GW next November and bring back the Democratic party in the process. We are proud and happy to support him, even while the media ignores him, republicans attempt to smear him and even some Democrats resent him.

Endorsements do not win elections, and to some extent candiadates do not win them. It is the quality, character and efforts of his supporters. During this time, I have met some of the best. No matter what endorsements come forth, or polls skew opinion, we will never give an inch, give out, or give up!

[IronLionZion]

92. It ain't over til Barbara Bush wails that her son lost!

:toast:

[TacticalPeek]

96. ROFLMAO!

:toast:

[Barbara917]

93. I will support Clark until.....

there is another democratic nominee or he becomes the next President of the United States. If Clark fails to win the nomination. I will cease campaigning for any candidates and show up at the polls in November to cast my anti-Bush vote despondent that the Democratic Party failed to nominate a CHOICE and the best candidate for the Presidency since Kennedy.

It is certainly in Dean's and his supporters interests to declare that the "party is over" and we can all go home before a single vote in a single primary is cast. It sure doesn't serve the interest of democracy and neither has Al Gore.

There is a reason that ex-Presidents do not endorse candidates until there is a Party nominee. It is up to the people to decide who their President should be. It is not the job of past Presidents to tell them how to choose. Bill Clinton understands this. By his actions Al Gore shows he does not. It seems he never was Presidential material.

[Gloria]

94. About this "Clark running to stop Dean" stuff... I don't buy it for these

reasons:

First, Clark is a brilliant man who wouldn't do anything he didn't want to do; and Gert ain't no pushover.

Secondly, and most importantly: the Draft Clark movement was from the grassroots, whether it was encouraged by certain party bigwigs or not. If Democratic Party movers wanted Clark in, I think it was because they recognized early on that SECURITY issues and the war would be the major issue in 2004 and they wanted another guy in the race with those credentials, in addition to Kerry, who had cancer surgery just as he campaign was launched early in 2003...and one never knows how that could go, even today. Also, Kerry was involved in the Washington political mess over the war, while Clark was clean, an outsider in terms of Washington.

They may have been alarmed at Dean's rise, but I think the overriding issue is the desire to get a very strong candidate on security issues. Clark's background, other than his military career, is a bonus.

[Jerseycoa]

98. I think it's nonsense, too

Clark is running because his country needs him. That simple.

[TacticalPeek]

95. To General Gore:

Nuts.

[Selwynn]

99. No I will only reluctantly support dean when he literally is nominated.

Not before then.

[stickdog]

100. Axciom has a fat personal data file on each and every American.

Plus, Clark has the full backing of the Corpocratic Party.

So Clark still has a lot of leverage in this race.

[Clark Can WIN]

101. Oh - oh.......... Catcher in the Rye..................

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[ollie2]

105. WOW:.....

Dean casts one vote, like the rest of the fine citizens of Tennessee. Clark, however, will win Tennessee handily. Sorry, Al, you picked the losing side in your state's primary.

Gollybejesus, is this the democratic party? Doesn't the voice of the people count anymore? Don't we "have the power" anymore? Boy that didn't last long! Or are the power brokers pulling the shots behind closed doors in smoked filled rooms now? So much for myth vs reality. Oh well, the heck with principles, the end justifies the means, and we were TOLD we had the power, even if our vote is only after the fact.

Dean can no longer be considered the outsider. He stole Paul Wellstone's phraseology, but Howard Dean is no Paul Wellstone. In fact, he is the least liberal of the Democrats with a chance in this election. Shame on Dean for trying to steal Wellstone's phrase! Sorry, I'm from Minnesota, and I know a liberal when I see one, and Howard Dean is centrist at best.

This endorsement has much more to do with Al Gore, I'm afraid, than Howard Dean. It's a power play vis-a-vis the Clintons. Dean is just the conduit.


Dean is front-runner now, but there is lots of time. People are going to look their candidates closer come time for the election. They will be asking whether a candidate can actually pull off beating Bush--if he can't, then--guess what, Bush wins, and it doesn't matter how great our candidate was.

Look at the electoral college folks. If we win the Gore states, we get 260 votes...we need 270. That means we need a state or two that voted for Bushwhacker. Edwards, Gebhardt, Clark, or Kerry could win Arkansas (clark's home state) and West VA....that would be enough. Lieberman might even win Florida. Tennessee and Missouri are in play for these candidates. In my opinion, Dean won't get ANY of these states! It's not just geography, it is Dean's temperment and personality. Southerners have a difficult time understanding skiing, especially with bad backs. They also don't like a Northerner telling them what they are like, as in Rebel Flag Pickup Drivers (who vote Republican). So where is Dean gonna get more electoral votes...Kansas? Plus which, Dean is sadly behind Bush in CA and PA ....the Democratic Base if anywhere is. In fact, of the five top contenders in Gallup poll, Dean is LAST place in head-to-head competition with Bush!

Yeah, but Gore (who didn't even win his own state of Tennessee, and is not considered BY SOUTHERNERS one of them because he was raised in DC) is for Dean. I bet that makes you Deaniacs feel better. There is still time for you to consider finding a candidate who can actually BEAT Bush. It's all a waste of time, isn't it, if Bush wins by a landslide and we lose 6-8 Senate seats as part of this "expression of anger" against Bush. Yeah, that'll teach Bush...give him four more years!

[mikehiggins]

102. Did I mention...

In regard to Gore's endorsement of Dean in the primaries, what difference does it make beyond that? It doesn't change Dean or his perception among the voters, though it may lead more of the party pros to jump on board. Gore's support should satisfy those who really were afraid Dean represented something new and innovative in politics. Same old, same old.

Or as the Who used to sing, "here comes the new boss, same as the old boss"

Us ABB folks in the Clark camp support the candidate we feel has the best possible chance to eke out a win over an incumbent president in a time of war. The Gore endorsement of Dean does nothing to change that.

I am surprised that Gore didn't endorse the man he chose for his own running mate, but that's politics, I guess. Nothing succeeds like success. Same old, same old.

I would suggest to our Deaniac friends that a man who managed to lose his own state to an illiterate clown from Texas with no credentials at all, is hardly the political guru of the ages.

I like Al Gore but if he had run a decent campaign in 2000 the Supreme Court's role would have been limited to swearing him in. Instead he frittered away state after state, and what happened happened.

Now he's back. Good luck, Howie!

[hilzoy]

103. No.

Oddly enough, I'd rather let the voters decide.

[ibegurpard]

106. Ridiculous

And I wouldn't let anyone who suggests otherwise take my money to Vegas.

[LuminousX]

107. Gore haters ooze from the woodwork

Holy cats, we are a large batch of self-loathing idiots.

[DemCam]

108. Snif...Is that chickenshit

I smell?

It ain't over, folks...I just watched Hardball.

[Suzyhart]

109. Gore promised he'd support whoever became the Nominee- I feel betrayed

I spent endless hours on the phone trying to get media to cover the real truth about the recount- I fought for Al.

But he has broken the promise he made, to support and get behind the Party's Nominee. Now, instead, he is trying to anoint Dean.

I like Dean alright, but Wes Clark moves my heart and soul. I would take a bullet for him. I trust him.

Dean has struck some low blows at the other candidates, when trashing the others for having to take a stand under bad circumstances. He was at a nice vantage point, didn't have to take a stand from the safety of a governing chair.

I resent the mean-ness of his lying slur at Clark, about Clark's take on the Iraq resolution. Anyone who has read all of Clark's published commentaries would understand exactly where Wes stands. Dean understands. He chooses to spin and distort. So no, I don't trust Dean.
And I no longer trust Gore. Now I have to think that Al Gore has a deep bitterness at the Clintons, and at his old staffers who have supported the General. What's up with that? Why couldn't Big Al just let the process take its course, and let the cream rise to the top naturally?

[ibegurpard]

110. You would take a bullet for him?

You scare me...truly. The only people I would take a bullet for are the members of my own family and a few very close friends.

[Lurking Dem]

114. Betrayed?

Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Gore WILL back the nominee, whoever that may be (and I hope it is Clark) but that doesn't mean he can't endorse who he wishes would win that nomination.

His seal of approval isn't a guarantee. It's just a statement of support and a hope to galvanize momentum. Like any of us who work for a campaign would try to do on a smaller scale, yet then back whoever the nominee may be.

[TacticalPeek]

116. Welcome to DU, Suzyhart!

Be brave. Clark knew this wouldn't be easy. Sometimes the best man DOES win!


:toast:

[Mountainman]

111. No way, Gore is seen as a loser his indorsement means nothing

[Woodstock]

112. Of course it isn't over, it's really just begun

Nobody has this sewn up. Let's enjoy the next couple of months. Argue issues, but not diss any of the candidates. Then support whoever ends up the nominee.

[Myra]

115. Clark is my first choice. Period. I think he's the best choice, by far.

There is no reason to give up on him unless the Dems
have an official candidate and it's not him, or he
drops out (which is doubtful).

I still think he can be the one.
And if he's not, I want him to gain as much clout
and visibility as possible so that he'll have a place
in a new Dem admin.

If he's not Pres, he should be VP, Sect of Defense,
or Sect of State.

[digitstatic]

117. I've done my research

Clark is the best choice for President. He has my vote. For most people it will take more than one endorsement. This could have been more effective if it came sooner to the Primary in my opinion.

[Piltdown13]

118. Absolutely not over!

Like many others, I think Gore was way out of line giving his endorsement so early. But there's still plenty of time before the primaries, and there are still a few candidates who could take the nomination, Gore endorsement or not.

Probably the most annoying aspect of this endorsement for me will be a little more hassling from the local Republicans next time we do a Clark info table in the student union. :-)

[LiberalBushFan]

122. i'm hyped as always

saw clark live right before hardball
"I just LOVE being the underdog" he said
He's still getting better every day

[JohnKleeb]

124. Its really only just begun

Hasnt been a single primary, to claim victory before there has been a primary is unnerving. So let us not resign ourselves and give up, but keep up the fight for our candiates whether they be Clark in your case, Kucinich in my case, Kerry, Edwards, Sharpton, Braun, or whoever. Sorry I suck :(.

[DeepModem Mom]

125. Not over, Jerseycoa.... eom

[Piperay]

126. NO way

is it over. Anything can happen in the twisting and turning path to the nomination, especially when there hasn't been a single primary vote cast!

[webkev]

127. Clark is my leader! (nt)

[robbedvoter]

129. We've only just begun. I have my own mind to decide whom to vote for

So do most people. Al Bore doesn't own me. He may knock a few people out of the race - making easier for us.

[kayleybeth]

132. It is not over for me

I like Dean okay and I would vote for him if he gets the nomination, but I think Wes Clark has a much better chance of beating shrub. I also think Clark would make a better president than Dean. That is just my opinion, of course. Your mileage may vary.

[Auntie Bush]

135. It's not over! Hell NO!

This primary race has just started! Dean best be looking over his shoulder cuz Clark is right behind him in a huge tank and Dean is about to be run over. That would make good Flash movie.

Gore's jumping in just flamed all the others...was a big mistake!
He just wanted to get back in the limelight on Deans coat tails...plus he was mad at the Clintons and the DLC. Of course he also liked Deans views...who doesn't? He should have really keep his nose out of the election. Dean should have won or lost it on his own. Senior statesmen for the party should not take sides. That makes him just another politican.

I left Gore two messages on his machine to tell him what I think of his poor decision. That was the first time I ever called a politican.
However, I must admit that if he had endorsed Clark...I probably wouldn't have made those calls. As they say...Me Bad!