Will Dean supporters call Dean a sellout

[Gman]

When they find out the deals that Dean cut to get Gore's support?

Endorsements like Gore's coming endorsement of Dean don't come for free. The rest of the party would likely be content to let Dean go into November on his own without any real active support from the entire party. Dean's perception problem, his perceived arrogance, means he would not have the active support of the entire party. The way that Dean has been running against the party itself only gets him through the primaries. Dean would win the nomination, the right to run in November, and then likely end up on the same heap as McGovern and Dukakis when its over.

Dean was headed down a path to where every one else in the party would have told him "good luck in November", got a box of popcorn, and grabbed a seat on the sidelines to watch the inevitable electoral bloodbath. When you see a train wreck coming, you stay out of the way so you don't get caught up in it. It was starting to look like the rest of the party was going to concede the primaries and the nomination to Dean, let him go down in flames, then come back in '08 with Hillary and a sure thing win in November. It's not at all unheard of for people in the Democratic party to sit on the sidelines and watch their primary opponent that they lost to lose in November. Happens all the time. Those of us that have been around this party for 30 years or more have seen it happen many times. It happened to Gary Mauro in Texas in '98. Happened to Ann Richards in '94 when she made all her support base mad. So Dean had to cut deals to get the full party support. You can't blame him for doing the smart thing.

No doubt Dean has agreed to endorse some ideas and/or issues endorsed by more moderate wings of the party. Then again, you run from the left in the primaries and run from the center in November. But Dean is showing a very good side of his self by cutting whatever deals are necessary. Dean is disspelling the talk that he's arrogant and a rogue. By cutting deals, Dean is showing he's willing to compromise and that he needs and wants everyone's support.

The question will be, will Dean supporters be upset when they start seeing Dean moderate his positions on some issues because of the deals that have been cut?

[arewethereyet]

1. they have ignored it to date

I guess it could change

[slinkerwink]

2. nope, because he's already a MODERATE---the man is a centrist!

I am a Dean supporter and I already know he's a moderate! Honestly, you treat us Dean supporters like we're stupid.

[Clark Can WIN]

19. Then what is that crap he's always spewing about

"representing the DEMOCRATIC wing of the Democratic party"?

Are you going to tell us that he's not trying to imply that he is a left of center Democrat with that statement? Honestly? We're not stupid either hon.

So either he is deliberately trying to mislead the Democratic base about being a centrist, or ? Fill in the blank.

[slinkerwink]

36. he's a real democrat----the rest have been wimpy democrats

[Clark Can WIN]

44. So you DENY that comment is meant to frame him as a

left of center Dem? Are you serious?

A REAL Democrat? Is that like "my ass is bigger than your ass" or what? I don't get it if it doesn't mean left of centrist.

I thought Deans rap was that all the other candidates were "too DLC" (meaning too Clinton, too centrist)and "Republican lite" (too centrist).

[Zomby Woof]

58. Wimpy my ass

I'd hardly call the scrappy Congressman from Ohio "wimpy". He has taken on Diebold, and everyone has followed suit, he is the only one from Congress in the candidate field to have voted against IWR... now everyone (except Lieberman) wants to be anti-war.

If the best you can do to build up Dean is to marginalize the others, then you will further drive the undecideds away from Dean. Do you take his coronation for granted?

[TrueAmerican]

3. Dean is using his treasure chest

for a lot of back room deals. I guess this is how you play the game in politics nowadays. It stinks. But how else can a guy like Dean get elected?

[slinkerwink]

4. it's called UPLIFTING the Dem party and unifying it!

honestly.....the few clark supporters like you make me disgusted.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slinkerwink]

8. so? it's to refute the slanders you make against Dean.

I don't gloat. Not today. I know what a setback Gore's endorsement has to be to the candidates in this election. If I wanted to gloat, I would've posted a thread that said, "So long, you suckers!" but I didn't.

[retyred]

47. What an asinine statement

I know what a setback Gore's endorsement has to be to the candidates in this election

Do you really believe the other 9 candidates view Gore's endorsement of dean as a setback? Gore? Gore is a legend only in his own mind, but if you consider the endorsement of a semi-competant VP to be a boost to your candidate, you really do live in a little dean box.

What Gore did today is what he's done since he crawled away from the election in 2000, come out, plant his face in the media so that they'd at least remember his name and crawl back. It ws a self-centered photo-opt to show support before a nominee was even chosen.

I'm glad Gore picked dean, much more so than had he picked my choice, this is not a thorn in the side of anyone as much as it is a pain in the ass.

It may come as a shock but not everything that happens to dean is a barn burner moment, then again if Gore's endorsement has the same impact as Gore's run for the Presidency, his endorsement may just be the thing that'll burn down dean's barn.

Maybe it'll be a dean/Gore ticket, Gores used to taking second spot anyway. I can see the RW ads now "Howard dean wants to be your president, and "THIS" man thinks he should". As they say....better yee, than me.


retyred in fla
“good night paul, wherever you are”
So I read this book

[slinkerwink]

50. so you're ignoring all the moveon.org speeches that Gore made?

[FXDS]

13. 2cnd that!

Kerry/Clark Clark/Kerry

[Hoppin_Mad]

37. removed

removed

[Selwynn]

49. Unifying it how? yeah we're real unified - he is the most polarizing guy

I know.

[maggrwaggr]

7. unless y'all have evidence for this, it's pure speculation

and cynical at that.

How could you possibly compare Dean to Dukakis?

Was anybody, anywhere actually excited about Dukakis? I know I wasn't.

But a hell of a lot of people are excited about Dean. Except for you I suppose.

[eileen_d]

18. I agree, there is no proof of any "shady" deals

and Dean is certainly no Dukakis for the reasons you just stated.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TrueAmerican]

20. The state of Vermont.

El Paso has more people than Vermont. Give me a break. P.S. Flame me if you must, I guess the truth hurts.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Eric J in MN]

6. Could you be specific?

What Gore issue do you expect Dean to adopt?

[Hoppin_Mad]

9. Like fiscal conservatism, gun and states rights ?

Moderate those to the left ?

Is that what you mean ?

[Gman]

16. I think you're probably on the right track with those

along with less of an anti-corporate stance. Not necessarily a pro-corporate stance, but not as visibly vocal against "evil corporations".

[Hoppin_Mad]

29. You said he was "running from the left"

I pointed out his stances which defy this 'far left' labelling that is part and parcel of the mindless GOP and Rove parrots. Too bad those here on DU who procaim themselves Dems feel the need to do Rove's dirty work for him.

[maggrwaggr]

10. You "think" it, therefore it's true

Give us some facts, buddy.

[Gman]

24. The facts are that in big league politics

endorsements like Gore's don't come because it's the right thing to do and because Dean is perfect on all the issues. Politics is about "what's in it for me?" Endorsements are not free.

People that think Dean and everyone else are these idealistic moralists that only do the right thing will probably also be waiting up for Santa in a couple of weeks with a glass of milk and a plate of cookies.

[maggrwaggr]

45. and you base this on your experience as ....?

what are your credentials to make such a sweeping generalization?

You don't know the mind of Al Gore. There are countless reasons (not all of them idealistic) why he could have done what he did.

You're making an assumption, which as you know makes an ASS out of someone, I can't remember who .....

[loyalsister]

61. The forgotten fact

Gore refers to himself as a recovering politician. He's not in the game. What is trading political favors for? By all appearances, he seems to be enjoying speaking his mind from the sidelines.
Amatuers who think they're "in the know" are amusing.

[Droopy]

11. Dean IS a moderate

He'll tell you that himself right now. I don't see why there has to be some big behind the scenes deal making for some guy to say he likes some other guy in the race. What if Gore just actually favors Dean. I think it's just that simple. Wouldn't it be dishonest of Gore to try and pull some strings in the way you are describing? Do you think Gore is a dishonest man?

[Gman]

32. Al Gore is an honest man

and there's nothing wrong with deal making to get what you want, or what a group of people you represent (e.g. the DLC) want. If everyone's happy, they'll be more willing to bust their butts in November.

[Woodstock]

53. I don't think that ever occurred to them - Gore just likes Dean - why

does it have to be more than that? Just like Paul Newman, Reiner, Sheen, and me. Is it OK for someone to back someone because they think he's the best candidate? Is that even a remote possibility?

[Dookus]

12. No....

I'm a Clark supporter. But I believe Al Gore could genuinely support Dean without believing that Dean had to "cut a deal".

They're both good candidates, and I congratulate Dean for getting Gore's support.

[Woodstock]

54. Thanks for the dose of sanity

You'd think Gore just committed a crime or something by this reaction.

He liked a candidate, so he endorsed him.

[mmonk]

14. No to sellout

spin it ;)

[Kazak]

17. Hate to say it...sound like some serious sour grapes.

Haven't you given up a tad early???

[slinkerwink]

22. it does sound like sour grapes

seriously, most clark supporters have been gracious about the endorsement, but the actions of the few disgust me.

[Guaranteed]

33. Man these grapes we've been

seeing today have been rotting for YEARS. I'm sick of these old-school last-gasp clowns. They rolled over, now they're whining about "not winning." They're just such losers they can't think about anything else. It's PLS- perpetual loser's syndrome. To them, it's not about WINNING, it's about "not losing."

IF YOU'VE GOT NOTHING GOOD TO SAY, GET OUT OF DEAN'S WAY.

[Terran]

25. Agreed. It's called politics.

Why criticize Dean for making a "deal", if that's even what happened? That's what politics is. And it's far more civilized than what the republicans do these days, running roughshod over all opposition.

[Nazgul35]

21. If you want to know what's wrong with the Dem Party...

I'd point you to members who stoop to inuendo without any factual bases....

Will Dean supporters call Dean a sellout when they find out the deals that Dean cut to get Gore's support?

Pettiness about picking the "wrong candidate"...

Dean was headed down a path to where every one else in the party would have told him "good luck in November", got a box of popcorn, and grabbed a seat on the sidelines to watch the inevitable electoral bloodbath.

The "if my guy doesn't win i'm taking my marbles home..." attitude. After warning us how important the next election is and how much danger we are in with another four years of Bush....these patriots will spend every bit of cash, strain every muscle to...

and grabbed a seat on the sidelines to watch the inevitable electoral bloodbath.

I hope you find your daddy candidate some day to save you from those mean republicans...I really do!

But for me, i'm not waiting for a savior...no matter who the candidate is i'm going to be out knocking on doors registering voters and sending cash to the ultimate party nominee...

I already have $20 a month taken out of my credit card account by the DNC for the eventual primary winner...and i've been doing that for 3 months, back when we all thought it might be Kerry...

So ask yourself how stupid your post is....especially when you warn us all about how important this next election is....if we lose in november it's not going to be based on who the candidate is but rather on what we do!!!

It says something about a person that all they can do is express reasons why we will lose, rather than offer anything of substance to ensure that we will win...

It's pretty fun when you make assumptions about others without knowing a god damn thing...............isn't it?

[Guaranteed]

23. The DLC is done.

Gore is riding DEAN'S coattails- not the other way around. Dean is transforming the party, and Gore wants in on it. That's not to say that Gore doesn't agree with him, that the party needs to change- because he does.

But, it's Dean that's leading us, here- and Gore wants in on the ground floor. He hears that whistle a-blowin'....

[Gman]

26. I'm wondering if the DLC just took over the Dean campaign

sure seems like it to me.

[maggrwaggr]

28. well wonder away, come back with some evidence

when you're not feeling so bitter

[Gman]

35. No, Dean's stock just went sky high with me

because I'm seeing he's willing to work with the rest of the party. Makes me be enthusiastic about him in November, assuming he gets the nomination.

[candy331]

43. Sharpton has been

saying it all along the party has to change and has to stand for something. It has gone too far to the right as Al says Bushlite and about to take it self completely out of the picture. This has become a do or die situation for this party and Gore could recognize that it is so. I would have no problem if Gore was made a promise to get his endorsement as long as it in the rules of the game. Of course it is just possible that Gore may see that the ship is moving in a different direction and want to hop on and not be left behind.

[Nazgul35]

30. why?

Did someone at the Clark camp resign?

[slinkerwink]

31. nope because Gore is no longer with the DLC

the endorsement of Dean is a big F-U to them.

[dansolo]

41. The DLC has been sabotaging Gore

If anything, this puts another nail in the coffin of the DLC. They were opposed to Gore's populist message in 2000, and they oppose Dean message now.

[burning bush]

39. 100% Agreed, but I wonder

whether Gore is visionary or opportunistic.

Maybe he's a bit of both, and being opportunistic aint always as bad as it sounds :)

[drfemoe]

34. If a democrat

doesn't win in 2004, don't expect any 2008 elections.

[Kool Kitty]

60. The way things are going with the bunch in

power now, I wouldn't really be shocked at no election in 2004, never mind 2008.

[caledesi]

38. Comparing McGovern/Dukakis to Dean? ROTFLMAO!

[RetroLounge]

40. When they find out the deals that Dean cut to get Gore's support

Yup. they cut a deal.

Al: Hey, howard, want to make a Deal?

Dean: Sure, why don't you go invent the internet and I'll teach you how to use it to campaign.

Al: and then I'll endorse you for president.

yeah, whatever. Spin spin spin...

[nomaco-10]

55. LMAO I just love your posts.

[Ramsey]

42. We like Dean for himself

Only the pundits and the right-wing press ever thought Dean was a leftist. One of the reasons I like Dean is that he is a fiscal moderate. We could use some fiscal discipline in Washington. Dean doesn't pigedon hole well, and I think the majority of his supporters are familair with his actual positions, not just the media versions of them. The media, by the way, have accused him of resembling everyone from McGovern to Gingrich. Go figure that.

So Dean had to prove some kind of moderate credentials to get Gore's endorsement? Good, I am fine with that. I adore Al Gore and think he would have been the best president in 50 years. If he likes Dean then I like Dean that much more.

[LuminousX]

46. Some people just don't get it...

It is all about Dean. If he makes a deal, we trust it is the right deal.

[jmaier]

59. Hmmm

I've been an enthusiastic supporter of a few candidates over the years and I don't I've ever been so credulous in politics that I would make this claim that whatever the candidate wanted to do must be right. But, what the hey. Enjoy.

[stickdog]

48. Will Clark supporters ever get a clue that Dean & most Dean supporters

are mainstream Democrats?

That Gore's last few speeches have been right out of Dean's playbook?

That most of us respect both men in the same way that they certainly respect each other?

That the idea that the "rest of the Dem Party" would "sit out" a critical fight against Bush does nothing but reflect disgustingly on the "rest of the Dem Party"?

[Woodstock]

51. Could it be Gore just likes Dean?

You know, it could just be he sees in him what we do. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

And about Dean's moderate positions - no need to worry about us being surprised, because that's why a lot of us picked him.

[Rose Siding]

52. Oh, my

You underestimate so many.

You can imagine how angry I am... to find out these horrible things about Dean. My hands are trembling so violently, I can barely write his name on the check.

[imhotep]

56. i love this post

Finally an admission that Clarkies are not liberal.

[slinkerwink]

57. heh