What concerns you the most about Howard Dean ?

[kentuck]

I keep thinking that Dean will put his foot in his mouth. I hope not but I recall how he had to apologize several times earlier in his campaign. I must admit, he has gotten better about that.

I fear that he will say something that will completely destroy his campaign. I pray that I am wrong. I do not say this because I support Kerry or Clark. I love what Dean has done to revive our grassroots. He has done what so many of us DUer's talked about for months on end before the campaign started. We wanted someone to take the Party from the moneyed interests of the DLC. It appears that Dean is on his way to doing that.

But, for some reason, I get the uneasy feeling that he will do or say something that will sabotage his race. Tell me these concerns are unfounded and that Dean is savvy enough and intelligent enough not to fall into a trap like that.

[ibegurpard]

1. Maybe he will

No guarantees, Kentuck. Any candidate can fuck it up.

[Bucky]

33. Dean seems a bit gaffe-prone.

My bigger concern is that he's velcro for the worst sort of Bush Family style smear campaigns. They fight dirty, low, & hot and they always go for jugular. The only time they ever played it safe was in '92 and they sure as hell won't repeat that performance.

I think he's wrong on repealing the middle class tax cut that Congressional Dems stuck onto Bush's billionnaires' jillion dollar giveaway, but I doubt a full repeal of the tax cut is politically possible anyhoo.

I suppose I have a hard time seeing him being good at working with Congress, but Mr Bush has made that a secondary concern. I think what bothers me most about Dean is that he doesn't seem to realize that he's the perfect poster boy for the Right's style of Culture Wars. His NRA standing won't mean a damn to people who hear about him skiing around right after "beating" the army physical.

A Dean victory scenario requires a complete political meltdown on Bush's side of the fence. I'm not willing to bet on Karl Rove being a moron.

[wtmusic]

57. Dean can tough it out

So far Dean has always landed on his feet (the jury is still out on the sealed records business) and he comes across as a fighter.

He will trounce * in a debate. And he just plain has more charisma. No meltdown necessary--give me status quo and it will be a Dean landslide.

[DemBones DemBones]

94. Dean comes across as an arrogant rich guy, like Bush*,

but the media always covers for Bush* when he makes gaffes, can't answer a question, etc. Don't count on them covering for Dean, or judging him the winner of any debate. Gore knew his stuff; they said he was pedantic.

Obviously, the media can be expected to make life difficult for any Dem. The problem that I see with Dean in particular is that he gets testy and defensive easily. He always wants to go back and address some comment that he should just let go. He KNOWS he's smarter than everyone else and that shows.

People are weird. They should want someone very intelligent to be president but they don't want anyone who acts like he's intelligent, who acts like he's any different from them.

[Bucky]

108. Excellent observations

Hopefully, if he ends up the nominee he'll have people to water down that tendency not to know when to let things slide. You simply can't have the last word all the time and it's clear that he wants to.

He's in perpetual "punishing father" mode. I'm not sure that works against Bush in the controlled environment of the debates they'll have. I can see Dean whining about Bush not coming out to "fight like a man" (the rich can be so juvenile that way) on sundry debate issues.

That's gratifying to say, but it never swings any votes.

[bobthedrummer]

140. Kucinich is a scrapper, and he wins for the people everytime

he isn't swayed or fazed by corporate power.
All power to the people, like it says in the Constitution.
Go, Dennis!

[bearfartinthewoods]

150. yesterday i saw a reporter waving a bunch of papers saying

"i have 20 pages, here, of Dean mis-speaks and position changes"

[MariaS]

2. What scares me the most is

that he will get the Democratic nomination.

[imax2268]

88. why would that scare you...?

because it's not Clark...?

You know what scares me the most...is BushCo getting another term...how about getting over the fact that your candidate is not cutting the mustard...at least there is a Democrat making some wave and gaining momentum...we need that...because the bottom line is...we need to get BushCo out of office...period...!

[DemBones DemBones]

96. Because he will lose by a huge margin. Think Goldwater 1964.

Or McGovern 1972.

And Bush will still be in office.

That's what scares me.

[Romberry]

107. Goldwater's loss in 1964...

...is what propelled the Republican Party into the dominant position they enjoy today.

After Goldwater lost, Republicans did not tuck their tail. Theu redoubled their efforts and redoubled them again. The shouted loud and proud about their conservatism. They used the loss as a rallying cry. Goldwater became reverred.

Compare that to what happened with McGovern in 1972. Following his loss, Democrats were told not to call themselves the "L" word. We were told to play defense and try to hold onto as much of the gains of the New Deal as we could. Above all, we were told not to act "too proud" lest we offend someone. And where has this strategy gotten us? NOWHERE!

It is time to be loud and be proud. It is time to take our country back. It is not a fight for the timid.

If you haven't read Saul Alinksy's Rules for Radicals, now would be a good time to do so. Alinsky wrote the book on how to beat Republicans. Unfortunately the only ones (save for Carville, Trippi and Dean) that are using his "bible" are the Republicans and they seem to know the lessons by heart.

[leftynyc]

113. If * getting another term is what really scares you

then you are backing the wrong candidate. Look, I like Dean and will work for and vote for him but he has NO chance of beating *. I wish it were different, but it's not.

The press will do everything it can to protect * and Dean is very gaffe prone. In a perfect world, he's a great candidate. In this world, he's going to get creamed. He'll lose over 40 states.

[TexasPatriot]

141. if * wins by a large margin

and Dean doesnt provide an environment where southern senators can compete well and win, then * is going to have enough clout to put anyone he wants on the SCOTUS. Can you say Bill O'Reilly?

I'm cool with people supporting Dean as the candidate - but you shouldnt be supporting him on the grounds that even if he doesnt win we'll somehow all be better off for turning the democratic party into something that may be able to challenge in 2008. This country will be a f*@#ing crater with 4 years of a * 'mandate'. ABB means getting rid of Bush is MORE IMPORTANT than any one candidate. There is no 'feel good' outcome of a loss to Bush*. There is only wailing and moaning and gnashing of teeth.

[bearfartinthewoods]

154. boy do i like your sig line...eom

[WiseMen]

164. Dean Vermont record is TOTALLY different from what he says now

Howard Dean gets his best scores from the NRA, not the Siera Club.

Governor Dean on the presidential campaign takes the posture and positions of a liberal activist while the record shows he allways campaigned in Vermont as more of a “Rockefeller Republican."

Vermont voter say of their former governor “he never saw a welfare program he did not want to cut.” Through his tenure as governor Dean made major cuts in aid to education, retirement funds for teachers and state employees, health care, Medicaid benefits, and welfare programs earmarked for the aged, blind and disabled, all under the cloak of “fiscal responsibility”.

In Vermon Dean presided over the highest tax rate in the state, but now he wants to roll back all of the tax cuts enacted since Bush took office. Not only is this inconsistent with his priorities as governor, calling for a roll-back the Democratic middle class tax cuts is terrible politics against George W. Bush.

The big question is: Who is the real Howard Dean

[LuminousX]

3. Paul Simon's endorsement of Dean washed away all my concerns

[nomaco-10]

8. It was the Rob Reiner endorsement that...

did it for me. Well, his and Paul Newman's. LMAO

Dean '04

[robsul82]

18. I heard Kevin Spacey has a DfA shirt, so.

Cool shiat.

On topic - stop waiting for Dean to explode at a debate. AIN'T HAPPENIN'. I swear, you people sound so horribly disappointed and crestfallen that after Kerry says "If I could respond to something Howard Dean said approximately 56 minutes ago" Dean doesn't flip him off and scream, "I'M THE LEADER IN ALL THE POLLS! POLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLS! I RUUUUUUUUUUUUUULE!"

Later.

RJS

[wtmusic]

46. LOL

too funny

:-)

[DemBones DemBones]

80. Well, that says it all, doesn't it?

:eyes:

[JohnKleeb]

99. The former senator of Iillnois DBDB not the singer

[wtmusic]

81. Who is Art Garfunkel endorsing?

[Sugarbleus]

92. LOL

[Mountainman]

4. I am worried that he won't attract enough non Dems in the general election

We cannot beat Bush with only Dems votes, we need independent and crossover Repubs and hopefully there will not be a Green party candidate.

If I felt Dean would win in November I would be behind him 100% but something inside me tells me that we are looking at another Dukakis or McGovern.

Now Clark can get the needed votes but if Dean gets the nomination I feel we will lose the best chance we have to beat Bush and that is because Wes can win.

[Eloriel]

6. ??

Blacks for Dean
http://www.blacksfordean.com/endorsements.htm

African Americans for Dean
http://www.aafordean.com/aa/index.htm

Republicans for Dean
http://atlblogs.com/republicansfordean/

Independents for Dean
http://deanindependents.org/

Libertarians for Dean
http://libertariansfordean.blogspot.com/


Dykes for Dean
http://www.dykesfordean.org


New Hampshire Republican for Dean
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/002058.html

Punx for Dean
http://www.punxfordean.org/index.html

[shanti]

30. alright, eloriel!

the message is being heard :yourock:

[SPURGEMAN23]

12. I don't think that will be a problem

We must not pander to republicans to get their votes. they must want to switch. Dean will run a campaign that we have never seen before. He will make them fight in in the red states. Mobilizing the base.
He will be a force down ticket too.

New message: Dukakis and Mcgovern are irrelevent.

has Clark ever proven that he can get any votes? he was in the military and you dont get elected for that.


I like Dean. He says things that I think need to be said. I am positive that any opened minded voter will like what he says too.

Dean can win. Join up.

[carpetbagger]

27. Pandering to independents isn't the same as republicans.

Democrats make up 35% of the electorate. It will take more than the 1% of the electorate who are non-nihilistic Greens, a high Dem turnout, and a good primary organization to win this one.

[brava]

26. The "unelectability" meme will destroy us, if we let it

My concern is that Dean will win the nomination and lose the general election.

This concern is founded upon several factors.

1. The Dean campaign is built on a false foundation that will eventually collapse. This foundation is based on the premise that raising $200 million to match Bush's $200 million will put Dean on an even playing with Bush. It will not. First, because as the incumbent, Bush still has more leverage with the "free" press. He can fly in on Airforce One for a photo-op any time and anywhere and knock anyone off the front page. He has think tanks and ad agencies creating the spin and writing the scenarios and speeches for him. Money will not win the election. The right ideas will. Dean has too many flip-flops and compromises, such as with being anti-war and then supporting the occupation and $87 billion for recunstruction.

2. Dean supporters seem to think that the guy with the thick neck who looks like a jock and talks tough will be able to "beat" Bush, almost as if they think of it as a literal beating. I see this election as a war of ideas, not of brute physical force, and only the best and most powerful ideas can beat Bush.

Kucinich has the best ideas. He's the "Little BIG Man" who can beat Bush.

Somehow, people are missing the forest for the trees. Unfortunately, tragically even, we will all have to pay the price for the shallow reasons people offer for finding Kucinich "unelectable."

"He's too short."
"He looks funny."
"He's a vegan"
"He's a bachelor."
"He wants a Department of Peace, how ridiculous"

Blah.. wake up everybody!

[Mountainman]

32. Also if we don't read the tea leaves correctly it will destroy us

If we nominate an unelectable candidate because we like all he stands for we will be still shut out. I hope we don't do that. If Dean is the nominee I hope I am wrong and he can win but I am not convinced of this at this time.

[BootinUp]

111. You're point seems to fall on deaf ears

Damn shame. If you look at the Gallup poll data, Dean takes a whopping 40% of liberal democrats. Clark is getting more moderate dems and more conservative dems. Now this is the really wierd part, Deans policies are no more liberal than Clark!

Clark and Dean both have significant grass roots movements so that argument is a wash.

[jmaier]

5. Honestly

He's been running a great campaign but I simply have a hard time visualizing listening to him for 4 years in the bully pulpit. I was intrigued at first but the more exposure I've had to him, the less supportive I've become. Of course, all things are relative and he is NO WAY near as irritating as Bush!!!!!!

I think Dean has pioneered a new form of campaigning but is same old, same old as a politician. Wes Clark strikes me as a new kind of leader: thoughtful, honorable, tough, non-bombastic, not strikingly partisan. Also, Gov Dean seems best when "scripted" like in a stump speech and at his worst unscripted. For example, debates, MTP, etc.

I make my strongest judgments about the candidates in their non- or less scripted moments.

[eileen_d]

7. Dean survived the Confederate flag "issue"

(or non-issue) when only hard-core Dems were paying attention, so I think he'll be fine.

The main thing that concerns me about Dean is whether he can, to put it crudely, "work and play well with others" -- in the contexts of Congress and international relations (for example). It's too late in the PM for me to articulate that clearly, so I'll leave it at that. I do think he could win the general election if nominated though.

[burning bush]

13. Well, one thing to consider

Is that the primary season is NOT a good time to judge on how well Dean gets along with others IF the others you refer to are his Dem opponents.

Look instead to the endorsements Dean is getting. He certainly seems to be getting a lot of cooperation, eh?

Give him some time. When the only goal is Bush, I bet you'll see a much friendlier Dean, unless of course you happen to be named GW Bush...


:)

[eileen_d]

20. I don't know... Clark appeals to me more

Clark comes down hard on Bush but remains gracious in the field of Democratic candidates. Of course given his recent entry into Democratic politics, he isn't positioned to come down hard on anyone else.

Clark seems like enough of a fighter to beat Bush, whereas Dean seems more like an all-out brawler. (Which I know appeals to a lot of folks, and can't hurt against Bush!)

It'll be interesting.

[shanti]

38. shoot

with the numbers of wrestling fans in the u.s., dean's "brawler" persona should do very well! probably an untapped population too.

[stickdog]

9. His safety.

[pruner]

15. unfortunately…

I must agree with you.

:(

[kentuck]

10. He will have to overcome the "anger" image....

Such as was on the cover of the National Journal this week. This could scare the devil out of some people by the time the Repub PR machine gets thru with it. I think maybe he needs to moderate his "You have the power!" speech so as not to validate the Repub ads that are sure to come.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

16. if he weren't the " angry" candidate for the media

he'd be the "softy" doormat for the media. personally, i think the angry persona helps him, what speaks to RW'ers more than unchecked aggression?

I think my biggest problem with Dean is that he's not President yet.

[eileen_d]

21. LOL - your problem is my favorite so far

even though Dean's not my fave. :yourock:

[alfredo]

11. His eyes are too close together. eom

[wtmusic]

71. I think Shrub's are closer

[POed_Ex_Repub]

14. There are two things.. both fixable...

First, he needs to get the message out on his tax plan... The GOP is going to hammering home the "He's going to raise taxes" card over and over again unfair as that may be. If he's going to make GW's tax cuts an issue, Dean has to make sure he restructures it in such a way that it addresses the Dems complaints (tax cuts to the Wealthy) while not hurting his base (tax cuts for the poor and middle class).

Second, he needs to get himself a VP with a strong foriegn policy record. Right now with our troops dispatched in so many different places and the populace bomarded with "war on terrorism" news daily, national defense is going to be a huge issue. I gaurntee Bushco is going to hammer in a lack of foriegn policy experience *Again, fair or unfair*. Getting Kerry or Clark as VP would be a good way to take away this talking point.

If he can get those two things covered, I like his chances in 2004.

[oasis]

36. Clark's comments about his Vietnam wounds vs. ski slope Dean is

a GOP ad waiting to happen. Kerry will not vp for him, he'll remain in the senate and be the next Ted Kennedy.

Edwards would be a good Southern gent to offset Dean's brash manner.

[funkyflathead]

17. Sitting duck for the BFEE

I'm concerned he will travel by air plane ala Wellstone

[rumguy]

19. My greatest fear has more to do with the media than with Dean

It's what the media, with the help of the repukes, will do to him that scares me. I know that Trippi and company are ready to get in there and scrap hard. So far they have shown ingenuity and an ability to think outside the box that will serve them well if they get the nom...but it will still be a tough-ass fight.

[K-W]

22. Modern General Elections are about image, sound bytes, and spin

We are facing an extremely well funded and experienced republican image machine. They will decide on what images they want America to have about each candidate from day one and then they will use thier resources to push that image.

They decided that Bush was a folksy everyman, cowboy, straight-talker, harmless, moderate. They decided that Gore was an out of touch, nerdy, lying, bumbler who no one could relate to.

Then they made those images stick through the media, spin, and through ads. We all watched it happen. Examples are endless, the demonization of the word Liberal, the smearing of various congressional candidates. We can go back to Newts tools to win elections or even further. The Republicans have been perfecting the ways to get people to feel certain ways about candidates.

My biggest fear about Dean is that Dean will be easy for this republican machine to pigeon hole. That his outspoken, confident approach will alllow him to fall face first into traps set to make him reinforce the image that the republicans are painting of him and that by the general election, as is the modern case in politics, people will have forgotten about the issues. They will be once again convinced that Bush is just a harmless folksy Texan, and it will just become about stupid issues of public image. In this scenario, I think Dean faces a distinct disadvantage. Someone like Clark would be far more suited to battle on this plain of politics.

Deans hope is that enough Americans are concerned, and that the democrats can energize people and fight enough to make it a campaign about issues. If they succeed in this, then Dean certainly has as good a shot as anyone, maybe better because he does have such a strong base. This is a big gamble, but maybe it is worth it.

Personally Id rather play it safe, nominate Clark and accept that Bush's war chest and propaganda machine will do what they have always done. Meanwhile we can do a good enough job of fighting on their level with Clark whilest working on the grass roots of the party to get our base up. This seems the wisest strategy to me.

But, either way I look forward to the fight.

[incapsulated]

23. He. Can't. Win.

Period. He can't and he won't. Rove will eat him up and spit him out, for one thing, you can count on it. And if the economy continues to improve the only issue he will have nationally is Iraq. He has no foriegn policy experience. You cannot run against a sitting President with no foriegn policy experience. Imagine Bush, crisscrossing the globe, meeting with Putin, Blair etc, attending world conferences while some govenor from a small northeastern state whose most recent headlines have to do with gay marriage, is telling the country that he is better qualified to deal with world politics. It aint happening.

[eileen_d]

29. As far as "unelectablility" theories go

yours is, sadly, pretty convincing. Dean isn't my #1 precisely because he doesn't have much credibility as far as FIXING the Iraq situation goes... sure, he was right that the war was wrong, but Kerry and Clark actually have the plans and the experience to get us out of it.

I hold out hope for Dean winning the GE, however... mostly because I think the tide is turning against Bush. Maybe not in the media, but I have heard enough anecdotes about disillusioned Republicans to suspect that Bush won't be getting out the vote the way he did in 2000. Combine that with the anger-fueled energy of Democrats and other anti-Bush forces, and I see a Dean victory (IF he's nominated).

[incapsulated]

40. The only way I see it happening

Is if Iraq spins so badly out of control that the a large portion entire country is up in arms about it. I mean it has to be a meltdown of major proportions. Viet Nam at it's nadir kind of bad.

Because even with the best candidate imaginable, we are in for a fight against Bush. There simply isn't the fury against him out there in the country that there is among democrats. People are pissed about the economy, but they like him anyway. They want to believe that things will turn around, economically and in Iraq, under Bush.

[eileen_d]

41. We certainly are in for a fight against Bush

And I know, it is frustrating (to say the least) how more people aren't outraged against Bush. But I really think the number of hardcore Bush supporters is dropping... not by a large margin, but enough for any of the Democratic candidates to have a fighting chance.

And just think... by this time next year we'll probably KNOW. :shiver:

[RobinA]

115. The Tide May Be Turning

against Bush, but in order for Dems to win, we have to give the voters in the turning tide someone to hang on to, or they will hold their noses and vote for Bush. Just because people don't like what Bush is doing doesn't mean they won't vote for him over a new horse.

[dsc]

31. Yeah it isn't like a governor has ever beaten a sitting President

It isn't like FDR beat Hoover or Carter beat Ford, or Reagan beat Carter, or Clinton beat Bush 1, or Bush 2 beat Gore. No wait yes it is. It is just like that.

[eileen_d]

34. True, but the situation in Iraq (and Afghanistan)

and 9/11, etc. changes the balance quite a bit.

[incapsulated]

42. OK

I should qualify what I said. You can run against a sitting President who:

Replaced Nixon and wasn't elected to begin with. (Ford)

You are running against a sitting President on economic issues.
(Carter, Bush 1).

Which was my real point. If Dean has runs against Bush on foriegn policy he loses. Unless the economy takes another big downturn, I don't see a groundswell against Bush. It takes a lot to kick out a President during a war.

[RobinA]

117. This is NOT

Bush I vs. Clinton.

[wtmusic]

44. Ahem. Bill Clinton.

Ran. Against a sitting President. With no foreign policy experience.

[eileen_d]

52. Toto. We're. Not. In the 90s. Anymore.

If the economy were the only issue out there, Dean would probably have more support from us stubborn folks. ;)

[wtmusic]

74. I have no concerns whatsoever with Dean and foreign policy

Dean and Clark are the smartest candidates in the field and either one of them is shrewd, persuasive, and charismatic enough to do a great job.

[eileen_d]

77. Yeah, it's not that I think Dean would screw it up

I would just prefer someone with more experience. I think most DUers would agree that no Democrat in the race could screw things up worse than Bush. I just hope the "general public" sees it that way as well.

[RobinA]

120. Yeah...

like THAT will get them elected.

[Donna Zen]

137. Dean knows zip!

Dean's foreign policy is nothing but muddle!

Because he will never sit in the White House I really don't worry much about this. But the truth is the guy knows nothing. He parrots stuff, just as bush does.

What difference does it make. When Democrats start telling me that my vote means nothing, what is left? Good to know who belongs to the new junta.

[SEAburb]

132. WOW!! What a zinger. Great line.

You go girl.

[incapsulated]

72. See my post above

It was "the economy, stupid" back then.

Before 9/11.

Before Iraq.

Before "the war on terra!"

And, I've got to say this, Dean is no Clinton. Clinton was a master politician in ways Dean can only dream of. His campaign wasn't made to attract a certain hardcore within the party, it was one that appealed to the entire country, with a candidate that was a southerner and had a charming, embracing kind of persona that was perfect contrast to Bush's cold, uncaring image. Dean seems to have more in common with Bush, personality wise, than Clinton did with his father.

[wtmusic]

76. glad Dean is no Clinton

Very interesting. I see Dean as being much more charismatic than Clinton, more genuine, more intelligent.

By November 2004 it will be 'the economy, stupid' all over again.

[NewJeffCT]

112. My concerns

He is already being pigeonholed as a New England or Yankee liberal, even though he seems fairly centrist on a lot of issues.

[Demoiselle]

134. Bill Clinton had no foreign policy experience.

And he beat a sitting president who had just pulled off a tidy little in-and-out war smacking down a bad guy with "minimal damage to our own forces," or so they said.
I don't pretend expertise in this...My visceral reaction to Dean (and it's based on nothing more than my gut) is less positive then my reaction to Clark. I will support the Democratic nominee, period. But WHAT I WANT TO SEE DEAN START TO DO RIGHT NOW is effectively counter this "Angry left left of left wing McGovern peacenik" image that our talking heads are trying to peddle. It's ridiculous...I can remember back in the day when he was a barely known single digit candidate (not so long ago!) and he was tagged as the centrist PRO GUN RIGHTS governor from an essentially conservative state. I know that picture wasn't complete anymore than the new take on him is...but he must start defining himself and refusing to let the enemy define him..AS OF NOW!!!! The Democratic candidate who defines himself and ties the media whores in knots will win this election.

[cryofan]

24. Ummm....he is a Rockefeller Republicrat, and not a Liberal / Progressive

Just a fairly cursory analysis of his VT reign shows that! And look what VT liberals say about him.....

[Mairead]

156. Even worse--he seems to be Bush Lite

He sure has a lot of people bewildered, though. They can't even seem to grasp what he admits on his site. That's frightening.

[Kanary]

25. That he would cut the safety net to shreds. NO Flames!!

Do Not Yell At Me!

This is my survival at stake, and not a big joke, or a throwaway opportunity for sarcasm.

I fear that Dean would institute more cuts in social programs, and there are many of us already on the edge, and any more cuts would do us in. When I have tried to say that, it is dismissed, but that doesn't resolve my fear.

Here, all that seems to be said is something to the effect that "Yeah, he eats kittens" or something dismissive like that.

I assume this was a serious question and I'm giving a serious answer. It scares the heck out of me.

A little bit more serious than whether he is "too angry".

Kanary

[Terwilliger]

28. Is he not allowed to make a mistake?

My problem with him are his policies, not his "anger". That's a tactic.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

82. exactly ter

All these silly electability and anger arguments just distract from serious discussion about his polices and lack thereof.

Dean is electable, Dean is angry..big deal, Dean is better than bush, but we can really do better.


TWL

[corporatewhore]

35. he will be another clinton dem

I feel that as much as he says he is not that he is.
He does not want to cut the bloated pentagon budget
He is pro globalization and therefore pro outsourcing anti family farmer pro sweatshop and pro militarization and anti environment anti labor
He is anti black/Latino I agree with sharpton who points out he is pro death penalty which is a racist institution(if i was convicted of killing a person just like a white guy statistically speaking i wouldhave a better chance of being sent to the chair simply becuase i am brown need i even brng up that i would be more likely to be convicted)pro gun and anti affirmative action
he wants us working till age 70
While i was in miami for the ftaa protests i talked with some clean water activists from vermont who trying to speak out against his environmental record when he was gov reminds me of when us down here texas tried to speak out against bush

[Gloria]

37. I just watched a Clark clip...and again, he gets his points across

with a temperament that is so Presidential and raises the level of discourse.

I just don't think Dean will wear well with the general public. Plus, I think the GOP will hammer on his back/skiing and his records. I may not care, but the Rethugs will do another "serial liar" bit.

The GOP will also hammer the great "Bush war" machine and fear of terrorism. Clark is the only one (other than Kerry) who can outgun Bush on that score.

Clark is a gift to the Democratic party. I am shaking my head that we would let that gift go.

[AnnitaR]

60. Love that line... "Clark is a gift"!

Great post! I agree Clark is the only one that can counter the fear factor that BushCo will hammer home to the masses.

[Fescue4u]

39. His plan to raise taxes

I know that many believe that no middle class folks got a tax break. But the reality is that I did and I put it to get use.

Im not anxious to see my taxes rise, and Im REALLY not anxious to see him lose in a Mondalish manner.

Frankly, I believe that the tax issue is all the seperates Dean from the whitehouse.

[moondust]

43. NRA poster boy. Executioner.

I wonder how Europe, Canada, and other more sane countries will take to the gunslinging, life-ending doctor.

[rumguy]

45. Flame-bait

[moondust]

48. Eventually you'll have to face the truth.

Those are his core values. Wake up.

[eileen_d]

54. Yet it was classic flame-bait.

Please back up the "core values" argument.

[moondust]

58. It's not an argument.

It's a matter of public record.

[eileen_d]

65. OK, humor me.

1) Show me an NRA poster featuring Howard Dean.
2) Show me the public record of Dean's work as an executioner.

[Fescue4u]

47. I didn know that Europe and Canada

Were going to vote in 2004.

Frankly his position on arms civil rights is refreshing and will lead to many cross over votes.

[moondust]

49. That's the Republican argument.

They don't vote here so they don't matter.

[Fescue4u]

51. No.. thats the liberal argument

true liberals interept the WHOLE bill of rights liberally.

[wtmusic]

50. Is it his actual stance that bothers you

or is it the fact the NRA is behind him?

[moondust]

53. Both.

He wouldn't get an "A" rating from the NRA for advocating sensible gun control or for being neutral on the issue. He is "with" the NRA.

[Fescue4u]

56. "sensible gun control" = "gimme your guns"

It was a loser in 1994. It was a loser in 2000.

If a candidate trys this in 2004 it'll be a loser then to.

[moondust]

59. You're spouting Republican propaganda.

Been watching Fox a lot? You're gonna love NRATV!

[Fescue4u]

61. hardly. Im talking civil rights

Thats all.

[rumguy]

63. Dean is for closing the gun show loop hole.

It's not like he's totally against gun control. He's not a poster boy for the NRA - not even close - he's a sane moderate on the issue, as he is on most issues.

[moondust]

66. The NRA does not give moderates an "A".

He's a poster boy.

[Fescue4u]

70. Only civil rights champions get an "A"

Go Dean!

[rumguy]

73. Yes it does, in VT Dean had no gun control issues to address

Thus he didn't address them. Thus he get's an A. He pushed no agenda on gun control. He supported the status quo in VT. But he is for closing the gun show loop hole and does, at least on paper, support the AWB - although there are some major probs. with it which he may change. So there are some federal actions he may take, but it is still sensible and not radical. What, are for locking up all the guns or something? Is this your pet issue?

[wtmusic]

62. He is "for" AWB which is "against" the NRA

and the NRA supports him anyway, because he has adopted the very Republican idea of letting states decide (a sensible idea, as well)

[moondust]

64. Association of Washington Business?

[wtmusic]

68. Average White Band

(and Assault Weapons Ban)

[Fescue4u]

69. Being for the "AWB" is an easy thing to say

Because it won't be in existance when the next president is elected.

Dean is a poster boy for the NRA, and Im damn glad that he is!

Is about time we had a "poster boy" for civil rights!

[quinnox]

55. That he has too much in common with the Titanic

The ship Titanic started out with fanfare and trumpets, and ended up a disaster of monstrous proportions.

A Dean candidacy vs. Bush would take the same course, and sink the Democratic party in 2004.

I also don't like total phonies who say one thing and do another, so naturally I dislike Dean.

[wtmusic]

67. LOL too funny

Dean is a total phony? For real?

I do like you Titanic comparison. Gotta watch out for those icebergs...

[rumguy]

78. But for every "Titanic" there are several that made it

Don't forget that.

[Sugarbleus]

87. He makes me nervous too..

I will vote for him if he's last one standing but I'm not so sure he's big enough for the job. I try to imagine him standing next to Chirac or one other European leader....hmmmm Can't get comfortable with that picture. He needs to learn to close his jaw when he's stunned by something. Will he be able to stand up to debates with Shrub/Karl Rove?
Dean is probably a great guy but he seems too "yuppie"..a boyscout..an, OMG--> URBAN COWBOY! Yikes, we already have a cowboy in the Whitehouse. :hangover:
I want someone who can do the job AND hold onto it for 8 years! I am getting older here, can't take the back and forth with the Dems and Repugs. Oh dream on Sugar, but wouldn't it be nice to have a Dem so great that he makes people WANT to vote another Dem in after his term?
If Dean wins the White House, I TRUELY hope he IS the man for the job because we HAVE to defeat Bush. I will wish him well and do my best to support him; and if he does a good job, I'll shout it from the roof tops. I just wish he hadn't happened upon the scene at all. I have extreme misgivings.

[DemBones DemBones]

75. Voting for Dean to counteract Bush* is like voting for Nixon to end

the Viet Nam war. I do NOT believe he would be much different from Bush* in his management of the economy or in preserving Social Security, Medicare, veterans' benefits, etc. He may not be hooked up to the Carlyle Group but you can bet he's tending his money and making it grow and thus will be reluctant to come down on monopolies and unfair business practices.

Yes, he'd repeal the tax cuts for the rich and that affects him but he knows how to invest and offset the tax cuts. He also will repeal the tax cuts for everyone else because he hasn't a clue what it's like not to be rich. He doesn't know how much a couple of hundred dollars can mean to many families.

His frugality is celebrated by Deanies (Wow! He's rich but his kitchen's a mess! He wears old suits!" and so on) but what they don't realize is that MANY rich people live well below their means because they're cheap and want to hang onto their money! Waitresses will tell you that doctors are especially terrible tippers, for example. Working people tip better than the rich do.

His record in Vermont has disturbing implications for what he'd do to the country. It seems that most people are accepting what he says about himself at face value, never a good idea in politics. Bush*, remember, claimed to be a compassionate conservative who'd improved education in Texas and got along with everyone "in a bipartisan manner." He would be "humble" in dealing with other nations. Remember? And while we all recognize Bush's arrogance, Deanies don't see how arrogant Dean is. Don't count on the general public not noticing this about him. They won't experience Dean the way you did, with big involvement in Meet-up and the blog. They'll just see him on television, being testy about a Bush* criticism. He's been testy at every Dem debate; if you didn't see it, it's because love is blind.

In 2000, the media didn't contradict Bush's stories or report the other, negative stories that they either knew or could have easily uncovered. When his DUI was revealed by a local reporter, the talking heads actually debated whether it was a dirty trick from the Gore campaign! The media tore Gore down and built Bush* up. They've built Dean up just as they did Bush*, and just as they did it for Nixon in 1968. You cannot trust the media. It is to their advantage to either keep Bush* in office or help convince the populace to elect someone else who will treat them favorably. If Dean is our nominee, it's a win win situation for the media and too many other corporations.

I also believe Dean would lose to Bush* for the simple reason that people would say "What's the difference between one smart ass, smirky, rich boy and another?" and either vote for Bush*, "the devil they know", or just not vote at all.

[eileen_d]

79. Well, it's "the devil they know" - OR -

it's "the lesser of two evils." I think there's quite a case for Dean being the latter.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

86. but even with that... once again what inspiration is there?

The Lesser of two evils is what has caused so many people of voting age to stay home. Of course because Bush is soo bad there will be "SOME" people turning out to vote that had not previously. Although with a more inspirational candidate, one that would be a stark contrast to Bush, a whole heck of alot more nonvoters would become voters. They just need to be inspired to vote.

TWL

[eileen_d]

91. I don't remember ever voting on an "inspirational" basis

I think every single time I've voted in a national election I considered it the lesser of two evils. Then again, I consider it my civic duty to vote. I think most apathetic voters think the whole system's corrupt, and all politicians are liars... and who can blame folks who were born after Watergate? (I'm almost one of them) I don't think a single candidate could change the minds of that type of voter... it would have to be an internal shift in the voter's priorities and awareness, influenced by many factors.

OK, it's late and now I am officially babbling :0

[DemBones DemBones]

90. I just don't think he'll get enough turn-out, beyond his

already committed group of Deaniacs. I don't think the party as a whole will actively support him. And if Dean's the nominee, I think Nader will run again, giving another option at the polls for dissatisfied Dems.

IMNSHO, Dean will lose big. Goldwater big. McGovern big. Maybe we need that, but can we afford it? Can we regroup after a huge loss to win in 2008 or will the Bush dynasty continue with Jeb?

[corporatewhore]

84. a vote for dean =a vote for nafta wto

When i told my friend i would with out a doubt for nader if kucinich or sharpton did not get the ticket and she said didnt you learn from last election a vote for nader is a vote for bush .Well to answer that i told her that a vote for dean is a vote for free trade (loss of american jobs promotion of sweatshops and a vote for corps to challenge environmental laws and privatization of municipal services like water)
and a vote for urban violence (come on he has an a rating from the nra can you say columbine?) a vote for militarization (not wanting to cut the pentagon budget on a side note i wish kucinich would say he would cut it more than 15 percent) a vote for racist and barbaric institution (the death penalty)
Any way i am from texas i know the damage bush can bring. I also know the media wouldnt report those who were unhappy with him and his policies as gov.As i have said befor i met some clean water activists at miami for the ftaa protests andthey told me about just like in texas the media doesnt highlight the people who did not like his policies as gov.They told me about his anti environmental and probusiness stance

[ThirdWheelLegend]

89. WELCOME TO DU!

Wow extremely impressive. You voiced concerns that a lot of Kucinich-minded people have.

Thanks,

TWL

[Guaranteed]

83. How many times will someone post a thread

with that exact title?

[Lexingtonian]

85. I wonder whether

he has a job lined up for himself in the summer, because he's going to have go back to earning a living.

Oh, other than that, Dean demonstrates no clue about the real stakes of the Culture War. He's stuck, a late 70s-to-mid 80s kind of post-FDR and post-JFK (but not post-Clinton) Democrat. Of course, that's what a lot of people find appealing about him, sort of like a Model T or an Edsel. Prediction: by February 1 all of you Dean boosters will be on the defensive.

[DemBones DemBones]

98. I don't know but I read that

he let his medical license expire, so I guess he's tired of medicine.

Edit: Not meant as a criticism. Lots of people change careers and I don't think Dean had practiced medicine since he became governor, due to lack of time. But letting your license expire indicates not going back.

[andym]

93. Dean looks like the nominee

I will support him, but I am concerned about two things:

1) His persona. He has great self-confidence, but that very
self-confidence can come across as smugness and arrogance.
Ironic that Dubya really is smug and arrogant, but hides it well enough so that most don't see it.

A large number of General Election voters vote purely on personality/likability.

Also, Republicans will try to use his energy against him, by portraying him as an angry partisan "cult leader." I imagine that they'll try to make him the butt of jokes using this theme. This way they can use his "plain talk" defense against him. "There you go again Howard" or something like it.


2) His resume, he has a resume that Karl Rove dreams of: a Northeastern governor with no foreign policy experience.

Rove apparently wants to run on Bush as the great savior/protector of America.

----------------

As for his overcoming this. Needs to be on popular TV, showing what a great regular guy he is.


Resume is what it is. Negative attacks against Bush will have to work for Dean to win.

[FDRrocks]

95. He ain't liberal.

IE under most circumstances I wouldn't vote for him. Tied with that is that is that I think Bush could rip him apart.

[corporatewhore]

97. He wont pull the troops immeadiatly out of iraq

and i just checked my email.my dad is to be redeployed in 2005 whether bush or dean wins
Kucinich and Sharpton on the other hand will make sure he wont be put back in harms way and will bring other peoples' family members home and will make sure there is not one more american or iraqi dead thanks to bush or saddam support our troops vote kucinich or sharpton

[FDRrocks]

101. Welcome to DU.

:) :) :) I hope your dad ends up OKAY! Truely. I love him and you. Good luck to you both.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

102. second welcome..

I welcomed you above, but also wanted to wish your father the best.

The gravity of how you put it gave me chills.

"and i just checked my email.my dad is to be redeployed in 2005 whether bush or dean wins"

Say no more..

TWL

[DemBones DemBones]

103. Sorry your dad will be redeployed. Scary for you, I know.

I was a military brat, too, but never saw my dad go into combat. He was in WW II but that was before I was born. It's difficult for families when the dad has to go to sea or gets stationed abroad and can't bring the family, but seeing your dad go off to a combat zone must be a hundred times worse.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[corporatewhore]

105. i never was military brat he lost his job

at age 48 and signed up i myself am turning 18 in a couple days .He was offered another job but was able to get health insurance for me and my siblings with the army (we have neverhad any, just another reason why i like kucinich)I really cant for the life of me cant see a reason why people who have denouced this war and the reasons why we went dont want us to pull out

[scotia]

100. Hey KENTUCK, don't you worry, Howard will do fine...!!

HAVING been a DEAN supporter from the beginning I have no doubts that HOWARD DEAN will do fine from now on. In fact, if you go to www.cspan.org and listen to some of his recent interviews and speeches you will clearly see how he has picked it up a notch. I know he will get the support he needs. I have written 14 letters to people in Iowa, I have sent him $100 of my hard earned pay to help him get George Bush out of the white house. You have to really believe in a person to throw out $100 dollars towards him. I do. I believe he can do it ..and he will need some help. I am hoping that Wes Clark will settle for Vice President. Its been offered to him, by Howard Dean and I hope he takes him up on it. A TEAM like DEAN/CLARK would fire up the country to replace the current lame brain President and his kabal.

Howard is on a roll. He's doing great...and he will continue to pick up people along the campaign trail. Even the Greens like him! Ralph Nader said he thought Howard Dean would make a great president. Jessie Jackson's son thought so too. So has Molly Ivins, the syndicated columist.

IF You are a Dean supporter, get involved. Its great fun! Write letters, sign up voters..make 2004 a year to remember!
<img src=""

[angee_is_mad]

104. the democratic base

He says that he was going to bring the democratic base back to the democrats, but how can a moderate democrat do this? As for the nascar male or the confederate flag waving male, he has no chance in hell of getting their votes. Then he is so good at alienating the minorities(black).
Basically, he has his work cut out for him. Well Dean you are not in Kansas(Vermount) anymore. Goodluck.

[Romberry]

106. What concerns me most...

...is the animosity generated in forums like the GD forum at DU which may result in large numbers of people refusing to actively support Dean if he becomes the nominee even to the point that some have said they will not even bother to vote.

I admit that it boggles my mind that some people had rather see GW Bush and the Republicans retain control rather than "stoop so low" as to vote for Dean. I'm a Dean guy but I would have to be dead or in jail to be prevented from supporting and voting for the eventual Democratic nominee, even if that meant I had to support and vote for Joe <Ptooie!> Lieberman.

In union there is strength.

If we stand together, we win. If we are divided, we fall.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

109. just that that he looks like a republican to me....

but we all know the old book cover cliche

[JNelson6563]

110. that "Democrats" who hate him

will be very competent and willing tols of the reich-wing.

Julie

[ibegurpard]

121. you got that right.

:shrug:

[Octafish]

114. Four more years of Bush.

A Dean candidacy will spell disaster in November 2004. Draft Dodger is just the tip of the iceberg.

Don't bother bookmarking this thread, as most Deanieweenie spammers will be gone by then.

[mmonk]

116. Dems, history and the south

[Hep]

118. My biggest concern:

Does he like Beef Jerky?

[theboss]

119. That he will get stomped like a narc at a biker rally

And will take all the up-for-grabs Senate races down with him.

[CWebster]

123. Yeah, that we should all adopt your attitude

No thanks.

[CWebster]

122. He isn't slick

He can be blunt and that bluntness is twisted to appear as gaffes--but it doesn't seem to handicap him, He just keeps on coming. That is the thing.

[shortshorts]

124. One kind of big thing, really

It's the abortion thing....I worry that it's going to turn into another McCain / S. Carolina push-poll scenario.

Look at this: <http://www.cnsnews.com/Politics/archive/200312/POL20031208a.html>

A few snippets:
While Dean has denied ever performing an abortion, one of his past opponents in the race for governor, Republican Ruth Dwyer, believes the Democratic presidential candidate may not be completely forthcoming.

While admitting that she has no first-hand knowledge, Dwyer told CNSNews.com that, "I have a hard time believing , just knowing Howard." Dwyer ran unsuccessfully against Dean for governor in 1998 and 2000.

"To have him refuse would not make any sense to it at all," Dwyer said, noting Dean's support for legalized abortion. As for Dean's past involvement with Planned Parenthood, Dwyer added, "I can't imagine him not being offered the opportunity ."


This is smear at its absolute worst...absolutely filthy. But what are the odds that Karl Rove has something like this planned?


(I discovered this link at Counterspin Central)

By the way: Hi everyone, love the website and I hope I will be a productive member of the DU community!

[Kanary]

125. Hi, shortshorts!

Welcome to D.U.!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

Kanary, goes off singing "Who wears shortshorts..."

[kentuck]

126. Excellent information for the first post !

Welcome! :)

[shortshorts]

159. Hi, Thanks!

Thanks for the warm welcome and for the kind words!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

127. The disconnect

between his fiery podium presence and his basically centrist policies.

I just don't trust him. He strikes me as someone who would say anything to get me on his side but not follow through.

[Donna Zen]

128. Policy and Integrity

I disagree with Dean's muddled foreign policy. Everytime he opens his mouth, I get frightened. He is basically an isolationist, but then again, does he even know? To the troops he is a four letter word. If elected, which will never happen anyway, he would be led around by the Pentagon. Especially, since he is currently being advised by a defense lobbyist, Bill Cohen and Joe Ralston.

Dean's domestic policies bother me a great deal, while he talks the talk, he does not walk the walk.

His economic policy is worse. I'm suppose to vote for someone who is keeping his tax code a secret? Please. So, any dollar that I received at all from the regime, Dean is taking back. Of course he has said he will not be cutting defense, and he will imposing an austerity program. Why, by next week, now that he is the nominee by Gore's command, he could just screw social security.

The man is simply not skilled enough, nor is he trustworthy enough to get my vote.

[poskonig]

129. Taxes

He gives the GOP too much ammo on this.

That's about it.

[mpsteve]

136. AGREED!!!

If he continues with this repeal the WHOLE tax cut idea it's game over!!!

[LoneStarLiberal]

130. Foreign Policy

This is my issue, my axe to grind. This is primarily why I've supported Wes Clark and is why I continue to do so.

Since talking about Iraq ceased being the Stump Du Jour for our candidates, I've heard nothing and read nothing coming out of the Dean campaign addressing foreign policy, probably the issue that Dean is the most vulnerable on in my opinion.

I get the impression that foreign policy is like a particularly pesky fly that Dean would like to swat and stick to only domestic issues, but it just keeps on buzzing around and pestering him.

Like I said up front, this is my particular issue and I understand that others have other key issues like health care or the environment and I respect those choices.

[Monte Carlo]

131. He must endure the brunt of the GOP onslaught that WILL be coming...

... to the person who wins the Dem nomination, and I am still very concerned that Dean will not hold up well. Bush and the Republicans hold the bully pulpit, both houses of Congress, and have many, many friends in the media. Between them, they will be shouting the line "the Democrat Dean is a liberal, elitist, fag-loving, emotional, draft-dodging coward!!" over and over and over. Argue that all you want, that will be the line. I'm just not sure that Dean can hold against that.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

133. He's already put his foot in his mouth many times- he's got teflon coating

It's the Bush "politics of low expectations." No-one expected much of Dean so when he exceeded the expectations early on in the game - he looked like a "winner."

Clark and Kerry both had very high expectations. People expected Clark to emerge like the "second coming" - sweep everyone else off the stage at the first debate - then when he didn't - he got slammed. He didn't live up to the expectations. Kind of like the Gore thing. People expected a lot and when he didn't live up to it - they slammed him.

Kerry also had very high expectations and when he didn't live up to them - he got slammed.

[blm]

143. You think that teflon coating wasn't GIVEN to him for the primary

just to assure that the more feared candidates wouldn't gain national attention? You think that teflon coating won't be stripped for the general? You think the corporate media is fair and balanced?

[mpsteve]

135. Here's what scares me...HE PLEDGES TO RAISE TAXES!!!

What more could the republicans ask for???

[Monte Carlo]

142. I second that.

There's no more uniting issue that the Republicans have over the Democrats than taxes. I happen to agree with Dean over Bush's irresponsible tax-cuts, but then again, what I think matters little in this. "The Democrat Dean wants to raise YOUR taxes!!" will be another line repeated again and again. Dean had better be prepared for a way to counter that.

[qanda]

138. His lack of appeal to Black voters...

Including myself and every Black person with whom I am associated. I started out liking him for his stance on the war, but that support has faded because he seems to be out of touch with Black voters and what appeals to them. His propensity to flip flop and be hypocritical is not lost on me or many others in my community. We don't need someone to pander to us (like him talking about playing basketball with the councilman today and the graffiti on the wall in an earlier appearance), we need someone to relate to us (spirituality and morality, our dying culture, jobs and the racism which unfortunately still exists in our country). Say what you want but the Republicans are gaining ground in some of these areas and I'm afraid that this may be the election, should Dean be the nomination, where Blacks make a great exodus from the Democratic Party.

[oc2002]

145. um, yeah, just look at all that the Republicans have done for Blacks...

Sure, go ahead and switch to the Republican party. I am sure they will take real good care of Black America.

[qanda]

149. That wasn't my point

And dismissing legitimate concerns will not get you anywhere. I think Black people are tired of choosing between the lesser of two evils-- I know that I am. I would NEVER join the Republican Party and I am quickly dismissing the idea of rejoining the Democratic Party.

[CWebster]

139. Why Dean matters now

On another thread someone just accused Dean support of being mob rule, but you would be more likely to find anti-Dean posts here..on a Democratic debate site. Easy work for the Republicans who rode right over Gore...

Dean tries and he listens and he cares about the Country and the importance of the party in restoring some stability and common sense again. He has forged a trail and rallied the ranks of the disaffected and disinfranchised. He is a gifted populist--and that is our strength against entrenched corporate power and control. What could be more perfect for these times? He may not be the oily smooth operator produced of the machine, he may not be the most progressive, but he is a practical realist. What could be more perfect in these times, when the spin is so mighty and the illusion so overwhelming that we are still involved in a criminal war based on lies? He is an outspoken maverick with a message and a perserving spirit.

He may not be perfect, but he is perfect for these times.

[NashVegas]

144. I'm Concerned That Bush Will Leave Affairs in Such an Unbelievable Mess

That Dean - or any other Dem candidate, for that matter - will be in knee deep.

Which is why I think it's brilliant that he's taking pains to support other Dems in their congressional battles, etc. Because if by some miracle he takes office, he's going to need a congress & senate he can work with.

[thebigidea]

146. the possibility of a daughter bursting fully formed from his skull

[SeveneightyWhoa]

162. LMAO

I laughed out loud at your post..ahahahaa..

[truthspeaker]

147. if only the media would cover Bush's gaffes the way they cover Dean's

Bush can't open his mouth without making a fool of himself, lying, or both. Dean's occasional misspeaks shouldn't be an issue, but the press (and Rove; hell they're the same thing) will try to magnify them.

[GalleryGod]

148. I Think He'll Have An EXTREMELY Difficult Time Finding A Running Mate.

I'm as serious as a heart attack,folks. Why would General Clark,with '08 just sitting there, go on the ticket. Kerry? He's no Fool and he does no one's bidding. Denny K? Not a chance. Sen. Bob Graham? 4 years too late. (Sigh,.The Greatest BLUNDER of Big Al's career). Keep working the list...the NO's get downright sonorous.:shrug:

[LuminousX]

153. I'm willing to bet that slot gets filled with no problems

[SahaleArm]

157. It's already filled - Bob Graham *nm*

[WhosNext]

151. His height and the fact that he's from Vermont.

And looks like a wrestling coach dressed up for the yearly sports banquet.

[mzmolly]

152. Kentuck, what hasn't broke Dean has only made him stronger...

I recall Will Pitt saying "This is the test" about the Confederate Flag rap. He went on to say, if this doesn't break Dean, it will make him even stronger. And he was right.

In otherwords, if Dean hasn't damned himself yet, it's not gonna happen.

Dean's the man! ;)

[Cleita]

155. My fear for Dean is that he is going to be subjected to

an unending barrage of criticism and accusations, many of them taken out of context and many of them untrue. I just hope he can keep addressing these slings in the analytical way he has in the past.

[GreenPartyVoter]

158. I take it you mean

as far as campaignwise? Then in that case I agree that I worry that he'll implode his campaign. On the other hand, bu$h's ought to have imploded every time he opened his mouth, yet he got by.

If Dean is elected, I worry that he will stand more for coporate interests than human ones in the long run.

Still, if he's on the ballot I'll vote for him.

A corporate centrist is better than a wacked-out fascist neocon.

[Northwind]

160. Only one thing

The fact that he will be limited to two terms as President.

[SeveneightyWhoa]

161. There is NO reason why anyone other than..

..Kerry or Clark should be the Democratic nominee in the upcoming election. Dean just isnt gonna work out in 2004 against Bush--especially with the ENTIRE MEDIA against Dean. As sad as it is, its the truth. I sincerely hope, for the sake of the world, that Dean is overtaken in this race, pretty damn soon.

[ramapo]

163. The Repub propaganda machine will tear him apart

I'm a Dean supporter. Gave money early on. He's very impressive. Yet I too am uneasy. I think Clark has a much more impressive resume. He is untouchable on military, defense, patriotism, etc. that the Repub propaganda machine is so good at attacking on.