Newsflash: Gore Divides Dem. Party,....

[TexasSissy]

assuring Bush of a big win in 2004.

About 30% of the country is Democratic, 30% is Republican, and 30% are Independent. In order to win in 2004, the Dem. Party needed to keep its 30% base, and attract a healthy percentage of the Independents. The Republicans are in no danger of losing its 30% base and of getting at least some of the 30% Independents, it's fair to say.

Of key importance was NOT alienating the core Dem. base. Every vote was important. Over half of the Democrats support candidates other than Dean. By endorsing Dean too early (before any votes have been cast), Gore has alienated a healthy percentage of the core Dem. base.

The result: Bush wins big in 2004, as many Dem. voters vote for someone other than Dean or stay away from the polls.

A little consideration of timing and non-alienation of the majority of the Dem. voters who support other candidates would have avoided this fatal blow. But the error has been made. The die has been cast. The Bush camp is no doubt breaking open the champagne bottles.

Don't blame the Dem. voters. THEY wouldn't lose an election intentionally. But apparently Gore would. This opens the field in 2008 for Hillary or Gore (or both), since Bush will now win and become a lame duck, opening the field for a Dem. candidate in 2008.

[gulliver]

1. It is a happy day for Bush.

We may still be able to pull it together, though. I haven't given up on Clark, but I'll work for Dean if he wins. I'll feel a lot less assured of winning the WH with Dean.

[flpoljunkie]

12. I think Gore's move to endorse Dean will insure that Nader will run...

Thank you Al Gore! This is just what we need to beat Bush--another Nader run!

[Cooley Hurd]

2. No offense, TexasSissy...

But you're only the 100th person with a post count below 20 that has come to DU and bellyached about Gore's endorsement of Dean.

Despite that, welcome to DU...

[TexasSissy]

8. No offense "alg",,,,,

But I've been a Democrat for over 30 years, long before Gore "invented" the Internet. I believe I probably have a few years on you, in that regard, and I have earned the right to have a political opinion, without your permisssion.

Welcome to the political world.

[Guaranteed]

10. You, too, believe Gore said he "invented" the Internet.

What a loyal Democrat YOU are.

On edit: Welcome to DU! ;)

[TexasSissy]

19. Yes, I am loyal.

And, yes....I saw the Gore speech on TV where Gore said he invented the Internet. I know that in Franken's book he says that Gore never said that.

But I voted for Gore, supported him, but distinctly remember cringing when I saw him on TV saying that he invented the Internet. Wrong choice of words.

[Maeve]

28. Your memory is playing you false

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.htm

[TexasSissy]

35. I know what I saw....

I also saw Gore's apology on TV, as he said he misspoke when he said he "invented" the Internet. He then clarified what he had meant. I thought the explanation was plausible. The media, conservative in nature, did not. They were all over him for that. Unfairly, I thought. But it couldn't have happened at a worse time. And he had problems with credibility after that.

[Judi Lynn]

46. It's wrong to try to float that cheap trick out there again

Here's an article examining this exercise in Republican back-stabbing and lying for profit:

(snip) Gore's words in a CNN interview, as quoted by Wired News, were as
follows:

"During my service in the United States Congress, I took the
initiative in creating the Internet."

Gore meaning, obvious to anyone who knew the record, was that he did
the political work and articulated the public vision that made the
Internet possible. No reasonable person could conclude that Gore was
claiming to have invented the Internet in any technical sense. The
first half of his sentence makes this clear: he is talking about work
he did in the context of his service in the Congress. The creation
of the Internet was a process that had several phases and took several
years, and Gore is claiming the principal credit for the political
side of that effort. It is a substantial claim, but an accurate one.
(snip)

(snip) On the very day that
the original article appeared, 3/11/99, the office of House Majority
Leader Dick Armey issued a press release mocking Gore's statement.
This press release read in part as follows:

If the Vice President created the Internet then I created the
Interstate highway system. Both were begun during the Eisenhower
Administration and I think Ike actually deserves a little credit
here.

http://www.politechbot.com/p-00285.html (snip/...)

From:
http://commons.somewhere.com/rre/2000/RRE.Al.Gore.and.the.Inte1.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(snip) Gore never claimed to have "invented" the Internet. What he said was: During my service in the United States Congress I took the initiative in creating the Internet.

As my colleague Jake Tapper carefully reported here last year, at worst that statement is a minor exaggeration of Gore's legislative record -- and miles away from the "I built it from scratch!" lie into which it has been twisted.

The life trajectory of the "I invented the Internet" Gore meme has been well traced by Phil Agre back to the original coverage of Gore's comment by Wired News' Declan McCullagh. McCullagh's first report, while never using the word "invent," interpreted Gore's statement as an outrageously false boast, and supported that view with one quotation from a conservative foundation spokesman. (That quote -- "Gore played no positive role in the decisions that led to the creation of the Internet as it now exists -- that is, in the opening of the Internet to commercial traffic" -- offers its own wildly distorted view of Internet history, narrowing its focus to "the opening of the Internet to commercial traffic" as the only significant milestone to shape today's Net.)

From McCullagh, the tidbit got picked up by the TV pundits and became the butt of late-night political jokes. The word "invent" practically leaped into Gore's mouth. News outlets across the board -- including Salon -- have now burned the distortion of the vice president's words into the public mind. (snip/...)

http://dir.salon.com/tech/col/rose/2000/10/05/gore_internet/index.html

[Cooley Hurd]

29. You couldn't have seen the speech...

...because it never took place. Lemme guess, you also saw the interview in which Gore said he and Tipper forced Erich Segal by gunpoint to write "Love Story"...
:eyes:

[goddess40]

49. Gore and internet

Gore never said he invented the internet he said he promoted it. Big difference.

[Cooley Hurd]

14. I, too, have been a Dem for over 30 years...

At the age of 8, I was stuffing envelopes for the McGovern campaign and have worked for every Dem candidate since then.

That said, glad to see you're perpetuating the "invented the internet" BS the Repugs started in 1999. Also, Gore is a brilliant man who has an axe to grind w/ the a-hole who stole the election from him. I'm completely confident that Gore feels Dean is electable, if he didn't he wouldn't have endorsed him.

[ibegurpard]

16. McGovern?!

Well, there you go! What can you possibly know about political reality?
<sarcasm>

[Cooley Hurd]

21. Jeebus, I was 8...

...but even at that age, I knew Nixon was EEEEEEEVIL! :evilgrin:

[CWebster]

25. 'long before Gore "invented" the Internet,' huh

Think you just gave yourself away.

[Atman]

40. Troll is what you are.

"But I've been a Democrat for over 30 years, long before Gore "invented" the Internet."

Now I KNOW you're lying. No real democrat (or even learned republican) buys into, let alone repeats, that ridiculous "internet" lie, debunked over and over and over again. Your repeating this republican fantasy is your tell. You've been outed.

Move along troll. The freeper boards are what you're looking for.

[BuckeFushe]

42. I am surprised you are using the RNC playbook line about Gore

"Inventing" the internet. If you are a long-time Democrat, you'd know he opened the door for expansion of the internet through his efforts, not invented it.

Regarding you opinion on the election, you are entitled to your opinion, but I thing you are completely wrong.

[unfrigginreal]

3. How's that Champagne tasting btw?

Ours is on ice 'til November, when we're going to kick a real Texas sissy's ass. :eyes:

[CWebster]

4. Just another flamebait...

More forboding tidings on how the Democrats are bound to lose.

Who needs Republicans when Democrats are more than willing to anticipate their own loss.

[Military Brat]

37. TexasSissy is on a roll today ... all the way to the bottom

In response to sventvkg's post, "What about a Dean/Gore ticket? Powerful? Realistic? Can it beat Bush?"

Here is TexasSissy's response: "Sure, if you get a kick out of big losses. This is a joke, right? That's sort of like having two left feet."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=856457

You can be a Democrat for 30 years as TS claims, and still be a DINO.

Edited for link.

[slinkerwink]

5. can we say sour grapes and hysteria?

btw, welcome to DU. Most Clark supporters last night were gracious to us Dean supporters and I'd suggest you take up your fellow Clark supporters' example....

[TexasSissy]

15. No, this is not flamebait.

I truly believe this is the result of this too-early endorsement. I wish it weren't so. But I'm afraid it is. Timing is everything. It's not sour grapes. I like Dean. I just ended up supporting Clark. But Dean was initially my #1 choice. I do not blame Dean at all for accepting the endorsement. Who wouldn't? I blame Gore for the bad timing, which I truly believe will cost us the 2004 election.

I think it is also possible that it is calculated for a loss, so that a Democrat can run in 2008.

Watch. You'll see. It was a long-shot that the Dems would win in 2004, anyway. We could not afford to lose any of our base.

[prolesunited]

48. It's a longshot Dems will win

Gore wants Dems to lose

Got any more RNC talking points or are these all the memes you guys have come up with so far? :shrug:

[sujan]

6. Cry me a river

Dont blame Dean because he's running a superior campaign.

[Corgigal]

7. No he didn't

and Clark Supporters, you haven't lost your man. We still have to vote and besides even if Dean wins it all, then you make sure that Clark is part of Deans team. Hell Clark would be great taking over Powells spot and he would be very trustworthy and wouldn't be caught lying to the UN.

Come on, we have to take our party back and with that they have to listen to what we want. I personally would love and trust Clark as Sec Of State. He's a bright man, hes done his homework and knows the players and it starts to put him in the spotlight. Not to mention the kids fighting and dying in Iraq need someone who will make sure the Pentagon behaves.


edit: spelling

[JNelson6563]

9. Wow! Are those talking points fresh off the press?

Good work! :eyes:

Julie

[Military Brat]

11. I am curious as to why some DU'ers give up too easily

Why is it that when things don't go the way some of us want them to go, the first thing that is said is, "We just gave bush the election?" That's a very defeatist attitude, and something which rove counts on to keep driving the wedge a little deeper.

Time will tell, and a lot can happen in between now and November. Remember that Gore is very strong against bush in polls, and it's quite possible that Gore's endorsement was needed in order to get some reticent organizations (and political contributors) to throw their weight behind Dean. I'm not endorsing Dean, although I lean towards voting for him or Clark, but Gore's judgment is not off course. Some very politically savvy people are saying, "Dean is the one." Visit http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com and scroll down the articles. The last time I checked there was an article on a Washington insider who very emphatically stated that Dean would be the nominee.

Perhaps Gore does not want to associate with Clinton's endorsement of Clark, for reasons of his own.

Anybody but bush.

[TexasSissy]

30. Clinton has not endorsed Clark or anyone.

It has been rumored by the media and pundits that that is so, simply because Clark asked Bill Clinton for some advice. Bill Clinton has given advice to a lot of Democratic candidates over the years, including Gray Davis. Doesn't mean he endorses them. Clinton & Clark are both from Arkansas, so they know one another.

But neither of the Clintons have endorsed any candidate. It's too early for that.

[BootinUp]

13. Be careful some folks don't want to hear your opinion

You made some very valid points.

Dean is very strong with self described liberal dems, he is much weaker with moderate dems and conservative dems. This does not bode well for capturing Independents as his appeal to that side of the spectrum appears weak. see the Gallup poll data
http://www.gallup.com/poll/releases/pr031209.asp

Cheers

[Corgigal]

23. Like everything else

Dean is going to have to change that. Dean wasn't suppose to get this far, he wasn't suppose to actually raise money. He was laughed at when he put in his papers to run BY Democrats. Just when I think Dean might not be able to pull it out, again he does.

[mrgorth]

17. Goodbye ignore face.

[jobycom]

18. What?

This is the first Gore/Dean post I've read today, so I hope this is an anomaly. That's just silly. Gore is the most legitimate Democrat sage at the moment, so his endorsement brings a lot of clout, but it hardly means the primaries are over. It's just a boost to Dean's already rising fortunes. If something happens to Dean between now and the primaries, someone else can step up.

This doesn't help Bush in any way. It adds momentum to a Democratic candidate during a time when Bush is flooding the airwaves with phony PR stunts and fake economic optimism. It steals Bush's limelight as he is gaining popularity. That hurts Bush.

As for ending the primaries too early or alienating non-Dean supporters, hogwash. If Dean wins the primary, sooner or later the core Democrats would either have to come over or have to vote for Bush (or stay home or vote third or some other equivalent), so no matter the timing, the effect would be the same. If anything, if this does indeed lock it up for Dean, it means that everyone can focus on Bush, and helps unity, rather than harming it.

And for the record, not all of those who don't list Dean as their first choice are against Dean. I've got real doubts about whether Dean can win, as I've said many times. When asked, I answer undecided. So I'm not a Dean supporter. Well, though, I may have just become one.

The other thing this does is ensure that Gore won't enter the race. That in itself helps clear up the picture.

[ibegurpard]

22. sadly, it's NOT an anomaly

Expect a HUGE effort to try to trash Gore and minimize the importance of this endorsement.

[ablbodyed]

43. Thanks, cogent....

analysis.
I am amazed by the negativityby others. DO THEY REALLY THINK THAT GORE WILL PUSH VOTERS AWAY? How? and Why?
Even if he does alienate some, then by endorsing anyone early it defuses any negativity that MIGHT spring from it during the campaign. Gore with some Machiavellian plan to get the nomination for himself in 2008? I would suspect that if duck-anus wins 're'election in 2004, that the 2008 nomination will be pro-forma at best: what we've seen from the 'thugs so far will be nothing compared to what we'll see if they get four more years.

[matcom]

20. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

welcome to DU

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[seventhson]

24. Ahh the Rovian wisdom of Newbies!!!

so refreshing

so serious

so frightening

so banal

so, ummmm, Karl

Karl

Is that you?

Who let the dogs out?

SOMEBODY open a window.

I smell Karl.

[Guaranteed]

26. Dean needs more press coverage.

Gore's just getting his name out there, making sure the nation knows him.

If you want to blame someone for "splitting the party," you can blame the guy who just jumped in awhile ago. Clinton had better watch out that he doesn't split the party on his own. This is his doing.

[eablair3]

27. it is all Ralph Nader's fault

Gore endorsing Dean. It's got all the fingerprints of that evil Ralph Nader on it. You know that Nader is the cause of everything bad in the Dem Party. It's all Nader's fault!

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. Yep

Funny how he has so much control for a guy who isn't even in office anywhere.

[reachout]

31. Citizen Gore

Al Gore is a United States citizen and not currently holding any elected or appointed office. As such, he has as much right to support a candidate as anyone here does. Yes, I recognize that his opinion carries a lot more weight than most of the people here, but that does not mean his right of free expression should be restricted by anyone.

Democrats who supported other candidates were going to act the way they choose to act if Dean wins the nomination regardless. Some will stop working, some will simply vote for the Democratic nominee, some will vote for another party and some will not vote at all. Whatever they were going to do, they were going to do regardless of the actions of Mr. Al Gore. Most will fall in behind the nominee because they fear another four years of Bush more than they dislike Howard Dean.

[wakfs]

32. Sigh

It's simply WAY too early in the morning for this shit.

Calm down everybody, the election's a year away. ANYTHING can happen.

[snippy]

34. This is moronic. Possibly moranic.

[HFishbine]

45. Right Snippy

I vote for B.

[Old and In the Way]

36. Thanks for the morning laugh Texas Sissy!

Welcome aboard.

Another 30+ year Dem here. Let me explain why you're wrong.

(1) Gore won by 500,000 votes in 2000
(2) Democrats are energized and will be together in 2004 regardless of who ends up our candidate in the general election. Stolen elections tend to do that. 110% of the 2000 Democrats will be voting this time around.
(3) Question is, how well will the Republican base turn out? I suspect many will either stay home, vote indie, or maybe vote for a centrist like Dean.
(4) How many indies will vote to support this unelected fraud? He's wrecked the domestic economy, drained the Treasury, lied to get us into an immoral war, promoted anti-libertarian laws, and was (at best) AWOL on 9/11 and not dealt with the root cause of terror.

The Republicans are going down in 2004....they'll be the wealthiest, most morally bankrupt party to ever lose a US election.

[trumad]

41. TexasSissy...LOL You're new and your credibilty is already shot...

Find me the exact quote where Gore said he "invented the internet" and I'll send you a thousand bucks via paypal right now... If you can't find it then you have to agree never to post on DU again...Deal...

[LTR]

50. You are WRONG!

Gore won by 600,000.

Get it right, dammit!!!
;)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Move to the right!! Move to the right!! The DLC knows best!!

Dean sounds too much like a Democrat!

Gore sold out the DLC!

We can't win without the south!

The moderates won't like us!

We won't be able to win Freeper votes!

The usual end of the world drool from the right.

[underpants]

39. Shut up ya Sissy

Welcome to DU:hi:

I don't think it matters there are a very few voters who haven't already made up their minds pro or against Bush. That is what is on the ballot. This is not going to change anything aside from bringing in the bases Dean needs to cement and the money that is needed. It still ain't over anyway.

[Skidmore]

47. Where'd you get those shorts?

Too funny!! Pissed off shorts!

[farmbo]

44. Your dreary ideas are sooo...8:30ish.

Its a new world now, baby. Take your Rovian talking points back to FreeRepublic, where they're appreciated.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

51. You're right. He dissed Lieberman by not even telling him first

This is intentional and very stupid and I'm really pissed at Gore.

[BigMcLargehuge]

52. locking

please review the rules for posting a new thread in GD before posting a new thread in GD.

Thanks

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