Does Gore's endoresement make anyone less likely to back Dean?

[theboss]

I know this is a hugely unpopular position to take on this board, but I've never like Al Gore. (There, I'm out of the closet). I didn't like him in '88 when he ran for president. I didn't like him when during the PMRC days with Tipper. I could tolerate him during the '92 campaign because I liked Clinton so much. And I didn't like him during the 2000 primary when I felt he trashed Bradley unnecessarily. I didn't like the way he ran from Clinton and tried to remake himself a populist during the general election. I've always found him to be one of the most cynically opportunistic politicians of this era. (There, I'm probably banned now but read on if I survived).

I'm actually surprised by how angry I am about this endorsement. I've always felt that party "big-wigs" should stay out of the primary fight unless they are running themselves. (I never expected Bill or Hillary to endorse anyone until the Convention for example). And I especially felt that Gore should sit out since his own VP selection was running, and say what you will about Holy Joe, a person should be loyal.

I was never a big Dean guy, but I could deal with the fact that he was probably going to win the nomination. Now, I'm not so sure. Am I the only one who feels this way?

[poskonig]

1. Me! Me!

Just kidding. People who would (hypothetically) answer "yes" probably hated Dean for whatever reason before the announcement.

Suppose Clinton endorses Kerry. Why would that make people *less* likely to back Kerry? It makes no sense.

[bryant69]

2. Well, two questions

I'm not Al Gores biggest supporter, but why should he, as a interested member of the Democratic party, stay out of the nominating process? I can see why the Clintons have chosen to do so (in the right wing, it's pretty well assumed that they don't want anybody to win, so they can run Hillary in 2008), but I don't see anything that keeps Gore from expressing his opinion.

Secondly, does anybody have any information on Dean courting Gore? I mean if they took a lot of meetings and Dean promised to make Gore his Secretary of Defense or something, that would be usnavory. But I haven't heard anything to that effect.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogpsot.com

[theboss]

7. Two answers

1. Because the process of the primary itself is important. I want to see how these candidates fight and respond to attacks. I want to see how their positions evolve. I want to see how they interact with people when it goes close to counting the votes.

I'll be honest. I'm a pretty big Democrat, and I still don't know that much about any candidate. I tend to not get that involved until January. (For example, I thought Clinton was a joke until about February of 1992 and then I ended up following his bus tour from town to town and volunteering at events). Here we are in December and the second biggest Dem in the country as thrown his support to a front-runner. I feel like I am being cheated the chance to learn about these guys on my own.

2. Don't know. Doubt it. I personally think Gore may have just seen a chance to jump into a spotlight.

[PVnRT]

11. So, should there be no endorsements at all?

That seems to be your argument.

[theboss]

15. Not this early by national figures.

I think it is fine for representatives or state officials in Iowa or New Hampshire or South Carolina to make endorsements. But Gore has a national profile. His endorsement throws off the process.

This actually ties to a bigger issue of mine. I hate the way the primary season has become condensed. Like I said, I view the primaries as a slow process. I think it's one of the last vestiges of representative democracy we have left. The whole thing is now going to be over by March, it looks. Gore may have just sped us to the conclusion.

[bryant69]

12. Uh

Well, why don't you go and visit the candidates websites and poke around--they are all up there on the Democratic Underground Front page. Might be useful. You don't have to buy into what Gore says. He can't stop you from learning about the other candidates, can he?

[King Coal]

3. I hear you TheBoss

I was a born again Gore fan earlier this year with his speeches to MoveOn.org. But, I can't see what was gained by democrats with this endorsement. It is too early for that. I just hope everyone remembers that the goal is to beat Bush. A lame duck Bush, is too dangerous to ponder.

edit spelling

[Eloriel]

30. What gain for Dems?

Here's some of what Gore said:

Dean Daily Dose
December 9, 2003


Al Gore Endorses Dean for President



NEW YORK--During a breakfast here today, former Vice President Al Gore endorsed Democratic presidential candidate Governor Howard Dean, M.D., citing his vision for the country and the Democratic party, as well as his grassroots-based quest to take back the White House.

Speaking at the National Black Theater's Institute for Action Arts in Harlem this morning, Gore praised Governor Dean's grassroots-based campaign and the broad coalition that Dean is building to help Democrats retake the White House in 2004. Following is an edited transcript of Gore's remarks and Governor Dean's remarks:

"...Howard Dean really is the only candidate who has been able to inspire at the grassroots level all over this country the kind of passion and enthusiasm for democracy and change and transformation of America that we need in this country. We need to remake the Democratic Party; we need to remake America; we need to take it back on behalf of the people of this country. So I'm very proud and honored to endorse Howard Dean to be the next president of the United States of America," Gore began.

"Democracy is a team sport. And I want to do everything I can to convince the -- anybody that is interested in my judgment about who, among these candidates has the best chance to win and the best chance to lead our country in the right direction. I want to do everything I can to convince you to get behind Howard Dean and let's make this a successful campaign as a group. It is about all of us and all of us need to get behind the strongest candidate. Now I respect the prerogative of the voters and the caucuses and the primaries. I'm just one person, but I'm offering my judgment and I'm also going to say one other thing here," Gore continued.

"Years ago, former president Ronald Reagan said in the Republican Party that there ought to be an 11th commandment, speak no ill of another Republican. We're Democrats and we may not find that kind of commandment as accessible, but to the extent that we can recognize the stakes in America today, I would urge all of the other candidates and campaigns to keep their eyes on the prize. Here we are in Harlem. We need to keep our eyes on the prize. This nation cannot afford to have four more years of a Bush-Cheney administration. We can't afford to be divided among ourselves to the point that we lose sight of how important it is for America. What is going on in this Bush White House today is bad for our country. And it's slowly beginning to sink into more and more people out there. And we don't have the luxury of fighting among ourselves to the point where we seriously damage our ability to win on behalf of the American people this time around," Gore said.

"Now, one other thing, I've spent a long time thinking about national security and national defense. And I've heard a lot of folks who, in my opinion, made a judgment about the Iraq war that was just plain wrong, saying that Howard Dean's decision to oppose the Iraq war calls his judgment on foreign policy into question. Excuse me. He was the only major candidate who made the correct judgment about the Iraq war. And he had the insight and the courage to say and do the right thing. And that's important," Gore said.

"Because those judgments, that basic common sense is what you want in a president. Our country has been weakened in our ability to fight the war against terror because of the catastrophic mistake that the Bush administration made in taking us into war in Iraq. It was Osama bin Laden that attacked us, not Saddam Hussein. Saddam Hussein is a bad guy and he's better off not in power, we're all better off, but it was a mistake to get us into a quagmire over there, so don't tell me that because Howard Dean was the only major candidate who was right about that war, that that somehow calls his judgment into question on foreign policy, so whether it is inspiring enthusiasm at the grassroots and promising to remake the Democratic Party as a force for justice and progress and good in America, whether it is a domestic agenda that gets our nation back on track or whether it is protecting us against terrorists and strengthening our nation in the world, I have come to the conclusion that in a field of great candidates, one candidate clearly now stands out, and so I'm asking all of you to join in this grassroots movement to elect Howard Dean President of the United States," Gore said.

Governor Dean thanked Gore for his endorsement:

"Mr. Vice President, I want to thank you for your generous and thoughtful words.... I thank Al Gore for his extraordinary leadership in this party in the last couple of years. I told him, I say what I think, for better or worse, I told him the two best speeches in this campaign were given by somebody who is not running for president and that was his March and September speech about the war and about foreign policy.

"We have needed a strong, steady hand in this party, and I appreciate Al's willingness to stand up and be one. This campaign is not about Howard Dean going to the White House. This campaign is about us going to the White House, all of us, and I look forward to the day on January 20th, 2005, when we do what Andrew Jackson, another great Tennessean did, we will open the doors to the White House and let the American people back in," Governor Dean concluded.

Gore, a former U.S. senator from Tennessee and two-term vice president under President Clinton, was the Democratic nominee for president and won the popular vote in 2000.

Following this morning's breakfast, the two men will travel to Cedar Rapids, Iowa, for a rally before Dean heads to Durham, New Hampshire, for tonight's candidates' debate.

[RPG-7]

4. Honestly..

I'm torn between believing that at some point after or during 2k he really got disgusted with himself and what an absolute sell out he had became or alternatively that he's just such a complete phony that you can just throw out whatever he says.

Either way it has no impact on how I feel about Dean. Politicians are scum, but Dean is now bought scum by a horde of small money, anti-war, anti-corporate donors.

[Corgigal]

5. small money, anti-war, anti-corporate donors.

Yeah, how evil is THAT. Time for more little money thrown Deans' way. Thanks for the reminder.

[RPG-7]

6. it's not..

Dean is my guy because in a country as corrupt as this, that's as close as you are ever going to get to democracy.

[michaelbmoore]

8. I don't know what to think about it. . .

It just seems a little strange that Gore (as a party leader)would make a personal endorsement like this before a single vote is cast or caucus is held. I guess the voices of millions of Democrats and millions more of potential moderate to left voters just is not supposed to matter. I think I am supposed to fall in behind Dean when a single vote has not been cast.

Is it just that Gore feels he has been marginalized and that the way back in is to try and be a kingmaker?

[BJ]

9. Where's all this "Anybody But Bush" sentiment?

So you don't like Al and Tipper Gore? Yeah? Do you like George Dubya and Laura Bush more?

Regardless of who's the eventual presidential nominee it is encumbent upon all registered Democrats to rally round the party's standard.

Do we really want four more years of reactionary government???

[Jim Sagle]

10. No.

[CWebster]

13. Here we go again

For years Gore has been revered on this board, and his estimation in most of our eyes has only increased not only after the hugh injustice he endured, but because of his subsequent political growth as a statesman and outspoken critic of the Bush administration.

The fact that some are so bitter only serves to reveal that their allegiances lie with cult of personality worship above all things.

[theboss]

18. Cult of personality?

I don't follow. I don't have any set loyalty to any Democrat at this point. My loyalty to Clinton ended in '95. I don't have a dog in this hunt yet.

My loyalty is to the Democratic Party and the primary process which I feel has been thrown off by this big an endorsement at this early a stage.

[roguevalley]

14. I didn't until just now. I just saw Donna Brazille being interviewed and I

nearly put my foot through the screen. Let me get this
out of my system before I have to go to the hospital. I
can't get my blood pressure down. I was so completely
taken aback by her that I can't get it down.

She said that the other eight candidates have to go now
and we all have to get behind Dean because of his money
and his organization, he's just inevitable.

So, basically, one person makes an endorsement and we all
have to jack boot with him. I am beside myself here. The
last time someone said we had to have a candidate shoved
down our throat, we got Bush. We are expected to see our
candidates to the door and bend to the inevitability of
Mr. Dean.

Frankly, fuck that. Right now, he doesn't have my vote,
ABB or not. This isn't why I'm a democrat all my life,
why I almost died of grief three years ago, to have someone
make the most important decision I will probably participate
in for me. Unless respect for the process and the rights of
voters to decide who leaves and who stays is restored, then
piss on the process and the candidates.

HOW DARE they say the other eight candidates should go?!
How dare they!

I am LIVID in a way I haven't been in three years. I will
choose who I vote for, not a "committee of one or two".
Al Gore, you lost my respect. I defended you until I thought
my head would explode and all for this.?!

I am so angry, I think I will sign off for a while. I wasn't
angry until Brazille came on and spoke. What a couple of
losers they are. What in the hell happened to democracy in
this country? Who are we anymore?

[ibegurpard]

16. Donna Brazile is a tool

Calm down. She's offering her opinion...don't take it as gospel.

[poskonig]

19. No one is preventing you from voting.

I know you're mad because eight candidates are going to lose, but if what the media whores were saying this time wasn't *true*, I suspect you wouldn't be angry period. You'd just blow it off like another Coulter rant.

[wakfs]

20. Take a deep breath

Look, the point is not to marginalize the other candidates, the point is to present as united a front as possible so as to defeat Bush next year.

Keep your eyes on the prize.

[Jerseycoa]

23. Wrong

The point IS to marginalize the other candidates. There is no other conceivable reason, at this stage of the process, for Gore's endorsement of Dean.

[wakfs]

32. Sour grapes

The other candidates have marginalized themselves by not running campaigns worthy of front-runner status. They don't need Gore to do it for them.

Dean's gonna be our nominee. Get over it. Don't let the also-rans give Rove and company any more ammunition than they already have.

[Cheswick2.0]

31. don't be angry at Gore and Dean because of Brazille

She was stating her opinion. She doesn't speak for them and is not working for Dean, at least at this point. It was only an opninion which you are certainly entitled to disagree with.
I love Al Gore, I am not automatically going to back Dean, but I am sure he had good reasons for what he did. He has that right the same as the rest of us. I believe that he was kept from running this time by the DLC and I believe he thinks they are destroying the party by having gone off in a bad direction. It is not the organization it started as and though there are plenty of members I would vote for (my governor for instance)the leadership has taken too much power (who the frick is Al Fromm anyway and why should I give a damn what he thinks?) I also believe he sees Dean as a populist. I believe he regrets not running an even more populist campaign in 2000 and telling the DLC to screw off. I also know he refused to go to their "come kiss our ass for support" meeting last year.....BTW all the other candidates attended as far as I know (someone could enlighten us on that topic).
But please don't hold Brazilles stupid statement against him or his candidate.

[OKNancy]

17. Here is how it affects me and my vote

I respect Al Gore, and his endorsement will make things a little easier to swallow if Dean does wind up as the nominee.

It doesn't make me like Dean, or should I say some of his policies. It also doesn't change my mind about what I see as a run-away train that the Democrats are on. Unless things change, I just see total disaster in the general election. That is just my opinion. It is not a Republican talking point; it is my opinion from observing and studying many elections.

Also, as a resident of a way-red state, it makes me feel deflated, because I know my vote won't mean anything. I have often wondered if say, for example, more of Clark's support comes from people in red states because we see a glimmer of hope there. It's not because we are more conservative, far from it. People like me, who live in Republican hell have to be very strong and have to work twice as hard. Our convictions have to be even stronger, yet we also tend to be more pragmatic.

As an aside, in 1988 I didn't vote for Gore in the OK primary
(which he won btw) because I thought he was much too conservative and too hawkish.

[Hep]

22. At least you're honest!

Gores endorsement doesn't change Dean's platform. There is no reason to like him (Dean) more or less.

[Jerseycoa]

21. I'll vote for Dean in the GE

But this whole thing stinks. It would stink if Clinton had done it for Clark. And it stinks that Gore is doing it for Dean. The process has to matter in a democracy. I didn't have a lot of respect for Dean and now I have no respect for Gore. As far as I'm concerned they're two thieves who plotted to screw the primary and all Dems are expected to lay back and "think of England."

[LuminousX]

24. If this changes a person's convictions, how strong were those convictions

in the first place?

If you hate Dean, you can find a way to make this another reason not to vote for him. If you like Dean, this is just another reason to like him. If you hate Gore but like Dean, you shrug this off.

Meanwhile, if you don't have a clue as to who to support and you liked Gore, then you may be prone to take a closer look at Dean. Anyone who blindly follows Gore and votes for Dean without looking at Dean's record, etc. are a sad lot. If you dislike Gore, don't know who to vote for, all this does is move Dean to the bottom of your list.

Or should.

Anyone who switches vocal support over this to or from probably weren't that convinced their original candidate was all that anyway.

[theboss]

26. Not everyone is involved yet

It's still 2003. No votes have been cast anywhere. And now, one of three Democrats with national name recognition has come in and changed the chemistry of the race before it has even begun.

It pisses me off.

[LuminousX]

27. All he did was tilt undecideds who favor him towards Dean

Those voters will still make up their own minds.

[mmonk]

25. no effect

[Romberry]

28. So you would let the fact of someone else's support...

...preclude your own? Sh*t like that didn't even make sense when you were in the 3rd grade and it certainly makes no sense for someone who is old enough to vote. You can read between the lines for the short version.

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Unless it's an endorsement from Charlie Manson,it's not that big of

a deal folks. I am impressed by the short amount of time it has taken for Howard Dean to garner this sort of support, but I think people are getting a tad too serious.