Gore backlash? (Gore's poor choice of words)

[quinnox]

The way Gore's endorsement is worded, it is insulting and demeaning to those who support other candidates.

Gore basically is saying he has determined, from on high, that Dean should be the nominee, and that if you are a good Democrat, then you better go along. This is offensive, and has cost me to lose much respect for Gore.

Gore seems to have forgotten that Democracy is about the will of the people, and that the votes are made by them.

I think it will backfire, this will cause the other candidates and their supporters to be even more determined to win vs. Dean.

Please see my post 10 for the text

[CWebster]

1. more flamebait

from an embittered partisan.

[Forkboy]

3. yup

[quinnox]

6. Not at all

It is my opinion, and is well stated. If you don't like, don't respond, it's simple.

[HFishbine]

17. Well-stated?

Since you're condemning Gore for his words, you might provide a quote or two instead of your own slanted paraphrasing. What did Gore say that you find so objectionable? We understand that you find your perception of his endorsement objectionable, but what did Gore say that is so egregious?

[Forkboy]

24. It's what he didn't say that Quinnox is upset about

as in "I support anyone but Dean".

[SquireJons]

45. Anyone?

Would that include W?

Come on now folks, this is the primaries. If we act like fools, we do the RNC's work for them.

[Forkboy]

48. You'd have to ask him

I'm starting to wonder myself.

[quinnox]

53. No, I wouldn't vote for Bush

under any circumstances.

[ParanoidPat]

54. quinnox seems to have forgotten.....

.....that Al Gore has every bit as much of a 'right' to endorse whomever he wants to, whenever he wants to, just like quinnox!
The fact that you chose to include phrases like "from on high" and "if you are a good Democrat, then you better go along" when Al never said that is insulting! (Also says a lot more about you than it does Al!) Quinnox seems to have forgotten that Democracy is about the will of the people, and that Al Gore is one of them. :evilgrin:

[paulk]

108. I have seen this argument repeated several times today...

To equate Al Gore's endorsement with the man on the streets endorsement is absurd. Al Gore was our party's nominee for president in the last election, an election he arguably won.

Al Gore has the "right" to endorse anyone he wants, whether this is the "right" thing to do is something else again.

[SquireJons]

150. I must disagree

Unless, of course, Quinnox was the last sitting Vice President and nomination by the Democratic Party for President. Gore is not just a private citizen - not yet anyways. Right now he must be careful about what he does and says, because they can profoundly affect national perceptions of Dem candidates. A lot of people are watching and if he goes of the deep end, he could take us all with him.

What Gore seems to be saying is that Dean is the only candidate that has caught fire - which is true. But does he have the ability to translate that into a national majority? Hard to say. I like his passion and his stands on big issues. He's angry and so am I, but I don't expect anyone to vote for me. I sure hope he finds that heart warming smile to go with the fierce rhetoric.

One good sign was Brooks attacking him in the NY Times today. The more the conservatives attack him, the better he looks. When the Dems attack him, it undermines his standing nationally with undecided voters. Hell, we know all the democrats are going to vote for a democrat, and all the republicans (well, most anyways) will vote for Bush. It's the rest we must appeal to if we want to win.

[TLM]

99. I'll do you one better... have fun in my ignore file...

with the other bashers who have nothing to say.

[Nazgul35]

143. you mean like its Gore's opinion...

who we should support?

If you don't like it...don't respond...it's simple!

[Octafish]

73. So, anyone not for Coward Dean will be reported as a disruptor?

I won't be cowed by Coward Dean or his spamming supporters. The guy's a fast-talking phony. Did I tell you Dean's a draft dodger, too?

[HuckleB]

Oh brother. Thanks for going to down to Limbaugh's level.

Dean is no draft dodger. He has the same basic problem I have with my back. I tried to enlist in the Air Force. TRIED TO ENLIST! And couldn't get past the physical because of my back. Despite this problem, I am incredibly active and always have been. The arguments that Dean is draft dodger are false and ridiculous.

[Octafish]

115. HuckleB, I have no problem with you.

Thanks for volunteering to serve the country. You should know that I would thank you even if you were trying to stay OUT of the Air Force or armed forces.

My problem is with Dean. He is running for President. If elected, it's highly likely he will need to order men and women into harm's way. That's something he avoided, yet he was healthy enough to spend the winter skiing. That's a fact. And that's cowardly.

[HuckleB]

120. OK.

I appreciate that. However, my point is based on the reality that I was a starter on the school soccer team and a local fall Babe Ruth league team at the time the Air Force declared me unfit. I went skiing the following winter. I biked 2-300 miles a week during the winter, and I was an all-conference center fielder the following Spring. Granted, my back problems diminished my once promising pitching abilities, but I was and still am incredibly active. Thus, the fact that Dean went skiing after failing a physical to get into the army means very little, in my opinion.

[stickdog]

128. So he should have lied about his back condition to go to Vietnam?

Or maybe he should have stopped being as active as possible for the rest of his life in deference to his luck at avoiding the draft?

[aquart]

157. Every boy I knew dodged that draft. Really dodged.

One lived on white rice until his electrolytes went crazy.

Another staged hysteria over a cherry chuckle at the physical and got himself tossed.

Others said they were gay when they weren't.

Dying in a war that has NO relevance to your nation is ridiculous.

Anyone know why we were in VietNam? I never did.

If a doctor who was there to certify your fitness to die for nothing said you were unfit for service, who of right mind would contradict him?

It's not like enlisting in the Texas National Guard by using your daddy's clout, getting expensive pilot training and then tossing it because you were usually too stoned to dare taking a drug test with your required physical, and then deserting altogether when you were forbidden to fly.

BTW, which is worse? A dodger or a deserter?

Bush was a deserter. No ordinary exemption from service looks bad next to that horror. Now does it?

And Bush is the opponent, right?

[PVnRT]

88. *yawn*

Clinton was a draft dodger!

Now, who said that? Can't quite remember...

[Octafish]

125. Joe Trippi?

I remember Joe was the guy who brought up Whitewater. Gee. The New York Times sure had fun with that one!

[ParanoidPat]

90. Funny thing that......

.....Being that I protested AGAINST the illegal and immoral war in Vietnam, I see his lack of participation in it as a GOOD thing! LOL! Go figure. :shrug::evilgrin:

[Octafish]

113. True. Vietnam was an illegal and immoral war.

I salute your bravery. You stood up and said, "Count me Against War."

JFK was against Vietnam, as well. National Security Action Memorandum 263 stated his position on the war and indicated JFK wanted ALL US combat forces out of South Vietnam by 1965. LBJ, days after the assassination, countermanded that order with NSAM 273, stating we commit whatever level of military support needed to ensure South Vietnam victory.

http://ist-socrates.berkeley.edu/~pdscott/B-IV.html

Strange how JFK was always for peace and all our Presidents since him have not felt the same way. And it didn't matter whether they were conservative or Liberal, they always do what the MI-complex want.

[Kool Kitty]

123. My thoughts exactly.

Most of my friends were ready to either run to Canada or cut off a foot to avoid Viet Nam. I protested it, too. I have no problem with him not wanting to go to Viet Nam.

[Scott Lee]

100. Were you ever in the military, or faced a draft?

[Octafish]

109. Not active duty. Never in the draft.

I was in Junior ROTC when I attended an honor military school in the early 1970s. Many of my friends there had older brothers serving in Vietnam. The best cadet in my class lost his older brother in Vietnam.

Why do you ask? I'm not running for my party's nomination for President.

In case you're interested, I don't want a draft dodger as President. We have a coward draft-dodger in the Oval Office now. And he doesn't know what he's doing.

[TLM]

102. WHen Dean wins the nomination and new DU rules go into effect..

what are you going to post about?

[Octafish]

105. More than Deanieweenies.

That's because I know about more stuff dealing with Democrats, politics and our country than just full-blown group ass-kissing of a draft dodging ski-bum.

[Forkboy]

106. you should start exhibiting some of that knowledge then

instead of the kindergarten stuff.

[Octafish]

118. How profound. How about Dean and Civil Rights?

Dean's Corruption in the Green Mountain State

by Josh Frank
Dissident Voice
September 18, 2003
 
William Sorrell met Howard Dean twenty-five years ago, when Sorrell's mother introduced the two during a neighborhood gathering. Grandma Sorrell was a Democratic Party loyalist, and an activist to boot.  At the time, her son William was a rookie state attorney, and Howard a young doctor with political aspirations.  They connected immediately. Both had hopes of climbing among Vermont's elite, where they could flaunt their power freely.
 
In 1983, shortly after the two met, Dean was voted into the Vermont House of Representatives, where he served for 3 consecutive years.  By 1986 he became the state's Lieutenant Governor, and in 1991 took over Vermont's top job when acting Gov. Richard Snelling died unexpectedly.
 
It wasn’t long before Sorrell started benefiting from Dean’s unexpected job promotion.  A year after stumbling into the Governor's mansion, Dean made Sorrell Vermont's Secretary of Administration.  Three years later Dean was back at it, selling his man again. This time for the Chief Justice position of Vermont's Supreme Court.
 
Unfortunately for Dean, his strategy backfired, and Sorrell's name was scratched from consideration due to his lack of judicial experience.  But that didn't stop the Governor from appointing Sorrell to be Vermont's Attorney General - which happened in 1997 when Dean bumped his buddy into the uncontested slot.

CONTINUED...

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Frank_Dean-Sorrell-Corruption.htm

[Forkboy]

126. See...that wasn't hard was it?

:eyes:

[SquireJons]

167. You're worried about an appointment?

Then how come you seem to like RFK so much? He was made Atorney General of the United States 2 years out of Law School by his brother. And then ran for President with virtually no other experience. People get nominated for posts by people they now, so what? Did Sorrell do something wrong? If so, blame him, unless Dean knew he was a convicted felon or something.

[HuckleB]

107. So you're just here to flip others off?

There's no other purpose to your visits?

[Octafish]

121. Not here to flip you or anyone off. Dean is unelectable.

I've been posting on DU for more than two years. More often than not, it's to bash Bush and the BFEE.

While I lose my patience with people who attack DUers personally, I try to take the high road in my posts. I have many friends on DU who support Dean, as well as many in Michigan, where I live, who support Dean.

What they have in common is that they do not see Dean as I do. He may talk tough, but Dean is a coward. And he will lead the party to defeat, should he be the nominee.

Until then, I'm free to state my opinion regarding the ex-governor ex-doctor ex-stockbroker on DU.

Fun Dean fact: Did you know Dean's grandma was a bridesmaid at Bush's grandma's wedding?

[HuckleB]

124. Sure, you can say whatever you want to say.

And I'm free to say "What the...?" in return.

As for electability, I think Dean is the most electable; one of two candidates with a legitimate shot at a win in the general election, in my opinion. And I don't think he's a coward in any way.

[stickdog]

130. Dean is a leader. Kerry was the coward. Kerry was afraid that he'd

lose the Presidency if he didn't go along with Bush on Iraq.

I'll take a kid who'd rather not fight in an immoral war over an adult who enables one. Anyday.

[mitchum]

149. deleted by mitchum

oops, responded to the wrong post. sorry

[kaitykaity]

117. When you go for your draft physical, and they declare

you "1Y", that by definition makes you immune to the
draft-dodging attack.

Shame, shame, shame.

[Octafish]

122. That's if the draft doctors discover a problem.

When a draftee shows up with a note from a private physician specializing in orthopedics, with an X-ray to support the note, and then states the back causes discomfort in sports is another matter. That indicates planning. What proves it wrong is spending the winter hitting the moguls at Vale. Sick people don't spend 80-plus days skiing on a bad back.

[kaitykaity]

127. Oh, please. RW talking points galore here.

Were you in the room?

He went before the draft board. He took his draft
physical. He was declared "1Y".

Those facts mean he is not a "draft-dodger". Period.
End of story.

Geez.

[Octafish]

141. Dean's own words ...

... tell the story. So, please, don't get snippy with me. I want to get rid of Bush and the BFEE as much as anyone not named Kennedy. From the Chicago Sun-Times, the AP take:

Dean admits using deferment to skirt draft

November 24, 2003

BY DAVID RENNIE

WASHINGTON -- Howard Dean, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, has admitted dodging the Vietnam draft, obtaining a medical deferment for a back condition and then spending 10 months skiing.

Asked if he could have served 33 years ago despite his back condition, Dean told the New York Times: "I guess that's probably true. I mean, I was in no hurry to get into the military."

Dean's candor may not have been wholly voluntary.

With his campaign under intense scrutiny from Democratic rivals, it was only a matter of time before attacks focused on his remarkable recovery from spondylolesthesis, a painful condition caused by a misalignment of the spine.

CONTINUED...

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-dean24.html

[kaitykaity]

146. I'll get snippy if I want to. You're calling white black and

black white and you tell me I'm snippy?

You ever notice how Dean walks straight up and looks
like a damn fire hydrant? It's because of his back.

I'll say it again. You can't refute it.

1. Dean appeared before his draft board.
2. Dean took his draft physical.
3. Dean was declared "1Y" by the army doctors.

That means he is not a "draft-dodger". Period.
End of story.

Geez.

[HuckleB]

129. Actually...

that indicates that he went to a doctor to get treatment. Nothing more. Should he have hidden this information? Should he have forced the military to spend money on an X-ray and a specialist? As for activity, as I've stated already, that means very little. As I was told by a well-meaning recruiter when I whined about my own situation, "If your back goes out on the baseball field, the worst that can happen is the other team gets a few runs. If your back goes out in the middle of battle, the worst that can happen is people lose lives."

[stickdog]

131. Yes, he planned to tell the truth about his back.

How dare he tell the truth when he might have fooled them in order to get a chance to kill innocent Vietnamese!

[Octafish]

142. No. The Vietcong and VNA were not "innocent."

Too many Americans and South Vietnamese people died at their hands to make that statement. And the South was not their country, as defined by the United Nations. As far as stolen elections and civil war and sticking up for the French colonialists go, that's another matter.

[stickdog]

163. And why exactly did we gave a fuck?

The domino theory?

Sound familiar?

[SquireJons]

170. Your ignorance is showing, Octapussy

First of all, Vietnam never did anything to us, so we invade their country because of cold war paranoia.

Here are the facts:

The U.S. adopted the Truman Doctrine in 1948, saying that communism is monolithic and must be contained at all costs everywhere.

The U.S. abandons its anti imperial policies, backs and funds (75% of war costs) French imperialism against an obviously nationalist resistance to further occupation by the French. The Soviet Union steps into the void and backs Ho Chi Minh.

The U.S. wanted to bail out the French when they get creamed at Diem Bien Phu, and adopted the 'domino theory.' Nixon advocated sending in troops as early as 1954 (as VP) which was rejected because of the Korean War. General Nathan Twiling, Airforce Chief of Staff wanted to drop 3 atomic bombs on the Viet Minh (with the French there too). Fortunately Eisenhower was a decent man, and rejected the idea saying he would not use atomic bombs for the second time in a decade against Asians.

Then the French government fell, partly due to the humilation at Diem Bien Phu.

Up to that point, there was no North or South Vietnam, just one occupied country.

In April 1954, at the initiation of the new French government, there was a conference on Vietnam in Geneva and the U.S. was determined that Ho Chi Minh would not get any part of Vietnam, so the U.S. walked out of the conference.

In July 1954, the Geneva accords were signed anyways, against U.S. opposition. The parties agreed to a truce and to a temporary partition of Vietnam at the 17th parallel, with the French withdrawing to the south as temporary administrators.

There were to be free elections within 2 years to be supervised by Canada, India and Poland to unify the country.

The U.S. promised to support the elections and not to use force to upset the arraignment.

The U.S. then starts sending financial aid directly to the South Vietnamese, sent military advisors in violation of the Geneva Accords and approved the seizure of power by Ngo Dinh Diem, who was an English speaking catholic autocrat who had excellent relations with the French plantation owners. But he was not supported by any of the people in S. Vietnam.

Diem refused to hold elections in 1956 because he knew that he could never beat Ho Chi Minh, who was a hero to all Vietnamese for resisting the Japanese and French. In the south, the Viet Nimh grew restive and began assassinating village chiefs to break Diems hold on the countryside.

In 1960, 18 South Vietnamese national figures, including 10 former ministers in the Diem government issued a public manifesto protesting Diem's nepotism, corruption and repression. They called for free elections. Diem threw them all in jail.

In 1960, full scale revolt began. You know the rest.

2003, after reading too many Ann Coulter books, Octafish (and most other revisionist neocons) says any American who didn't participate in the attempt to squash this particular nationalist movement is a coward.

You're right, Octafish. The Viet Cong and the Viet Nimh were no more innocent than the revolutionaries in the American Colonies in the 1770's or the French revolutionaries in the 1780's. But they won because they had the support of the people. Sounds like you would have sided with the British and French monarchies. What a patriot!

In the future, please talk about things you know something about.

[Name removed]

166. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HFishbine]

145. Octofish

What is your problem? Do you think your name calling is any more effective than if I were to start calling Con Kerry a baby-killing war mongerer?

Name-calling is the strongest evidence of the weakest argument. Maybe you can try something of substance from time to time.

[SquireJons]

165. Coward?

Would you have fought in Vietnam? If so, I question your judgement. 'My country, right or wrong', is... well, wrong. You mistake cowardace for smarts. I wish everyone who supports the war in Iraq would join up and go over now, so we can get our truely patriotic men and women back here. Being pinned down in Iraq would probably be the only way to open the war mongerers eyes and minds. Killing kids in Vietnam was just as wrong as killing kids in Iraq. What'd they ever do to us? Nothing.

[dionysus]

169. Come on!

Coward Dean? Draft dodger?

You sound like Rush.

[HoosierClarkie]

97. Is that all you have to say?

Give me a break. Gore said, "and I want to do everything I can to convince anyone who is interested in my judgment about who among these candidates has the best chance to win and the best chance to lead our country in the right direction."
In case you missed something...no vote has been casted yet! It is fine to endorse whatever motive one might have, but it is another to decide that we(voters) can not be trusted to think for ourselves. Bitter? Just disgusted here!

[HuckleB]

98. Please show me that quote.

Me thinks you are misquoting Gore.

[HoosierClarkie]

110. thanks.

Sorry I used quotes. I fixed it.

[oasis]

103. Gore comes forward to save the Party. Clark comes forward to save America.

IMO, That's the difference in the message of the two.

BTW, Kerry supporter here, but was impressed by Clark on "Hardball" last night.

[Justice]

119. Amen To That

[TopesJunkie]

152. Oh yeah! Amen to meaningless sloganeering! Woo hoo!

Sorry, but give me a break.

[loyalsister]

154. Too bad he was so late

Clark's campaign would be doing much better if he had decided sooner which party to have finance his run for the presidency.

[TLM]

101. Yeah the only right choice of words for Gore...

would have been to endorse the candidate the Dean bashers want.

[Justice]

139. Wish Gore Had Been a Statesman

I was fine with Gore endorsing Dean. I wanted to hear Gore tell us why -- I didn't want to hear Gore speaking as if he were Joe Trippi.

Gore said more than just the endorsement. He told us to join together, and then criticized the other candidates and singled out Dean. I was disappointed in what he said - I expected more from him.

Please don't put words in our mouths. Geez, Dean supporters don't even handle victory well!

[polpilot]

144. Gore is now part of the process for 'taking our country back'. Gutsy move

from Gore and decidedly not Bush-like!!! It's called 'politics for grown-ups.'

Dean '04....

[LuminousX]

2. My prediction

Gore's endorsement creates resentment in those supporters who don't support Dean, but since they weren't supporting Dean in the first place, it will have no negative effect on Dean.

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. I think it will have

a negative effect in not getting the other candidate's supporters. The supporters who have been working for other candidates were told to step in line behind Dean. Ain't gonna happen. They will go to Clark, Gephardt, Edwards or Kerry. Lieberman will be out soon, along with CMB, Kucinich and Sharpton. I don't see them goosestepping over to the Dean campaign because Gore told them to. Just the opposite!

[paulk]

116. I agree

this endorsement will not bring the party together; it's effect will be ultimately divisive.

I have a ton of respect for Al Gore - I voted for him three times and would have supported another presidential run without hesitation. But for him to get up there and tell me that my choices are meaningless, that I need to get behind the candidate of his choosing because he thinks Howard Dean is the only one who can win - is an insult. Not just to me - but to the other eight candidates AND their supporters.

Al Gore has done me a favor - he has hardened my resolve. I do not want Howard Dean as the Democratic party nominee. If my candidate drops out, there is now a whole list of other candidates I will turn to before Dr. Dean.

[stickdog]

132. How do you expect to bring the party together?

With a brokered convention in which a guy with fewer won delegates is annointed?

[paulk]

136. that could happen

but will it be any more divisive than one of the party's elder statesmen telling the 80% of Dem. in national polls who aren't supporting Dean that they're wrong? Especially when no votes have even been cast yet?

[stickdog]

164. Sure. It would be far better to cast the votes.

Then ignore them.

[meow mix]

4. shhh

supporters of dean are unable to see it like that.
you might offend them... and then youll be a whiner.

[PVnRT]

57. You mean like you're whining now?

Whaaaa, Gore didn't endorse my candidate, I'm gonna cry!

[meow mix]

87. lol

i like you =)

[kaitykaity]

5. What words exactly are you talking about?

It'd be nice to see the quote verbatim.
:shrug: Then it isn't so much a blind Gore
slam, or a flamefest in the making. (One
of them has been locked already.)

[poskonig]

7. We can't make the mistake the Kerry people make.

Some believe they are *owed* the nomination. You are right, Dean supporters must work even harder.

[Donna Zen]

56. Work?

Gore just gave you the nomination. Think of it, as only Dean supporters have the right to vote.

Supreme Court Al must be obeyed.

[mmonk]

Not very democratic, eh?

he could have just said he backs Dean, give his reasons without the step in line attitude and just say he hopes people will agree with him.

[King Coal]

8. I was undecided

but not now. I am going with Clark because something really stinks about Gore's endorsement of Dean. I'll vehemently support any Democrat over Bush, but in the primary election I'm voting for Clark.

[LuminousX]

11. Good. that is what Primaries are about, supporting who you truly want

[fishnfla]

16. I'm with you man

something about this endorsement aint right. I dont like this "only candidate" wording. I dont like the "take america back" wording. It turns people away.

I dont think Gore is helping anyone.

[in_cog_ni_to]

81. Welcome to Du!

:hi: and welcome aboard the fastest growing campaign...Clark's! :bounce:

[stickdog]

134. Something stinks atound here.

Though I don't think it's Gore's endorsement of the best candidate.

[Jerseycoa]

9. Edit your post

To include the quote. Or add a link, please.

[quinnox]

10. Here is the relevant text-

"Democracy is a team sport. And I want to do everything I can to convince the -- anybody that is interested in my judgment about who, among these candidates has the best chance to win and the best chance to lead our country in the right direction. I want to do everything I can to convince you to get behind Howard Dean and let's make this a successful campaign as a group. It is about all of us and all of us need to get behind the strongest candidate. Now I respect the prerogative of the voters and the caucuses and the primaries. I'm just one person, but I'm offering my judgment and I'm also going to say one other thing here," Gore continued.

....

And we don't have the luxury of fighting among ourselves to the point where we seriously damage our ability to win on behalf of the American people this time around," Gore said.

[LuminousX]

14. Interesting

"I want to do everything I can to convince you to get behind Howard Dean"


G-d damn this man! How dare he try to convince anyone of anything!!!

[dsc]

20. He needs to be taken out and shot

How dare he give his opinion. He should give other people's opinions instead. How dare he think. Shame on Gore.

[Cocoa]

23. I actually think his words were well chosen

looks like he chose them to avoid what you are describing in your first post.

You said "from on high", but Gore says "anybody that is interested in my judgement" and "I'm just one person." He's not claiming any undue authority, just whatever authority people choose to give him.

[Q]

65. Well said, Cocoa...

- DU has become a crazy place with partisan bullshit coming from all directions.

- The party is simply too divided to win the 2004 election...as Democrats chew on each other instead of the opposition.

[bearfartinthewoods]

76. recheck your calender

it's decenber ...not may

[Brotherjohn]

33. THAT's the relevant text?! THAT's what you find insulting and demeaning?!

"I want to do everything I can to convince..."
"anybody that is interested in my judgment..."
"I respect the prerogative of the voters "
"I'm just one person, but I'm offering my judgment..."
"we don't have the luxury of fighting among ourselves"

BOY!! Strong stuff there, huh?! (/sarcasm)

I can't for the life of me figure out what was "insulting" or "demeaning". Is it "all of us need to get behind the strongest candidate"? I mean, are you so upset that an endorsement is saying that the candidate he is endorsing is "the strongest candidate" and that we should "get behind" him?

Isn't that the definition of an endorsement?

[Justice]

49. That Wasn't The Part I Had A Problem With

I really thought that part was great, well nuanced and well said.

What I didn't like was the fact that Gore didn't really say anything that was convincing.

He said we should all get in line behind a candiate because we can't afford to lose. Correct, but why Dean instead of Kerry, Clark or Gephardt?

Then he lied and said Dean was the only major candidate to oppose the war. That is just a lie. Clark opposed the war. Gore lost me completely on that one. Plus, after saying we should all stick together, he immediately chooses to slam the other Dem candidates.

Nope, not well done.

[PVnRT]

61. Good lord, that's it?

Much ado about nothing. I would not have been insulted if it were Clark instead of Dean in that quote - too bad you can't seperate yourself from the Clark campaign long enough to form your own personality.

[eleny]

71. Congratulations to Dean

But I'm still going to vote for Clark in the primary. I feel more aligned with him and he has my trust. I feel that Clark would slaughter the shrub in a debate. He would make a strong president that has the best ability to unite the nation where the R Party has divided us. Gore is as entitled to his opinion as I am. We simply disagree.

[RetroLounge]

77. Uhm, it's an opinion, well stated.

"Democracy is a team sport. And I want to do everything I can to convince the -- anybody that is interested in my judgment about who, among these candidates has the best chance to win and the best chance to lead our country in the right direction. I want to do everything I can to convince you to get behind Howard Dean and let's make this a successful campaign as a group. It is about all of us and all of us need to get behind the strongest candidate. Now I respect the prerogative of the voters and the caucuses and the primaries. I'm just one person, but I'm offering my judgment and I'm also going to say one other thing here," Gore continued.

More sour grapes in this thread, sound like to me.

[burning bush]

111. error - dupe (NT)

[burning bush]

112. Raspberries?

You find this offensive? Or is this just a raspberry of a thread?

Quinnox, this is a standard endorsement "I'm just one person...offering my judgement"

Talk about making a mountain out of a molehill.

[stickdog]

135. How dare Gore enthusiatically support Dean!

How dare Gore work to get Dean nominated!

Next thing you know George Bush I will be supporting George Bush II's election.

Or something.

[Ramsey]

138. How is that remotely insulting?

I find that whole statement to be very humble and open-minded.

:shrug:

[Catherine Vincent]

12. I don't think so.

The democratic party will rally around whomever is nominated. That's just wishful republican thinking.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

70. "Wishful Republican Thinking"

Is THAT what is going on around here, these days?

I hadn't noticed. Much. :eyes:

[Catherine Vincent]

72. I should have said it differently.

What I meant to say is that the Gore backlash is wishful republican thinking.

[unfrigginreal]

13. Wishful thinking? n/t

[wtmusic]

15. Bullshit--it's Gore's opinion

and if you don't like it, vote for someone else

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. Anyone for sour grapes?

"I think it will backfire, this will cause the other candidates and their supporters to be even more determined to win vs. Dean"

Rightwingers unite!!

[Brotherjohn]

19. It sounded like a run-of-the-mill endorsement to me.

By nature of an endorsement, the person doing the endorsing is saying that they have determined ("from on high" is your opinion) that the endorsee should be the nominee. I did not find it at all demeaning or insulting, and I am not a Dean supporter.

Endorsing a person is not "forgetting about democracy". He is not forcing people to vote a certain way. Sure he is telling them they ought to vote a certain way, but that is what an endorsement is.

[BurtWorm]

21. Is Gore not entitled to endorse whoever he wants to endorse

whenever he wants to endorse them? Or should he have taken more into consideration that he is a little more equal than every other endorser and held his tongue until the whole party spoke?

[mmonk]

22. I guess we aren't team players

if we support our candidates through the primary:eyes:

[jcgadfly]

32. So we

should've blindly accepted Clark's entrance in the fray as the coming of the Messiah?

Sounds like Gore is trying to help Dean marshal...Oh my god! Grassroots support!

[quinnox]

40. exactly

This stinks.

[jcgadfly]

25. It reads like every other endorsement that I've ever seen

If it lights a fire under the other candidates organizations, It's about time. Many of the "campaigns" are the walking dead.

[bearfartinthewoods]

74. it's not what he said...it's when he said it

and i'm getting more and more curious about the timing.

boy...would i love to get ahold of dean's internal polls.

[RetroLounge]

78. Yeah, you're right. He should have waited until

after the primary when an endorsement means nothing.

:cry:

[Myra]

26. Gore gave his opinion, take it or leave it.

You're giving your opinion, and we can take it or leave it.

But I've heard Gore, and I've heard you. You're no Gore.
He's earned my respect so I want to hear his opinions.

[hertopos]

Who are affected most...

I think undecided moderated Democrats are the one most affected by this endorsement. Plus some hard core Gore supporters. ( That's waht I read in Baltimore Sun.)

Please, I am not a Dean supporter. If Clark got Gore's endorsement and win the nomination, I will be happy for Clark. Only exception is Lieberman.

Look, we should learn by now that campaign itself is as important or sometimes more important than candidate himself. I think that was the most important part of Gore's message. Plus, we can at least change the tone of the dialogue. Let's not become mini-Greens in Democrat Pary.

Dean is sometimes too cadid and ended up inconsistant or flip-flop. However, he is at least don't hide from that. That personality flaw may appeal to some hard core anti-Clinton moderate Republicans.

I repeat. I am not a Dean supporter but I like him. I am most impressed by his campain.

Hertopos

[loyalsister]

155. What I heard today

from people who are holding off, working on a process of elimination, is that it was interesting and could change things. Nothing but observations. People are impressed by the momentum of Dean's campaign, and the fact that he's raising money for dems in KY and IA, of course. Led to the question of what has Gep done for us?

[deminflorida]

27. Gore's acknowlegement of the Dean's grass root support, and

failure to recognize the true grass roots Draft Clark Movement, was a huge mistake on Gore's part. It looks as if he's undermining the political process, and he'll pay dearly for it if Dean loses in South Carolina. Instead of other candidate supports pealing off to support Dean during the drop-out phase it will cause them fall behind either Clark or Edwards if Dean loses in S.C. I don't think Kerry will last that long but you never know. S.C. has a lot of veterans, it still remains to be Dean's probable Gettysburg.

Gore better than anyone should know the feelings of Democratic voters if they think their vote won't count or if the voting process is somehow being interfered with.

If he truly was the elected President, which before this I believe he was. Then he would have taken the high road, like Clinton and Carter...and saved the endorsement until after the primary. But, he's cleared that real elected President issue up for me this morning.

This wasn't presidential at all.

[LuminousX]

35. This was about Dean, it would be rude to mention other candidates by name

Is he supposed to stand up there and list off all the similar traits other campaigns have to Dean's? That isn't his purpose. His purpose at this even is to support Dean.

[jcgadfly]

37. Where is this support again?

It showed up during the draft campaign but after he decided to enter the race...

<Crickets chirping>

[quinnox]

43. Well said

I can only agree.

[PVnRT]

67. The sky is falling!

Point out where Gore said your vote doesn't count if you vote for Clark. Point it out, go ahead, I'll wait.

How is Gore "interfering with the Democratic process" again? I'm not quite seeing that. Are you saying he has no right to an opinion?

And what is this "true grass roots" bullshit? What, is Dean's campaign "manufactured" or something? Give me a break. Is there any particular reason you are unable to show the same respect for Dean that Clark shows? Or are you just too childish?

[deminflorida]

75. It's not respect for Dean I've lost...Dean never earned any...

but Gore sure did and he lost mine this morning... Does it seem childish to you that I don't support a damn draft dodger?

[deminflorida]

80. I was really trying to leave personal feelings out of this, but

go ahead and slap me again by calling me childish.

[meow mix]

96. he does that..

in all his posts. so it dont mean anything.. just cant help it i guess =)

[PVnRT]

147. Because obviously you've seen all my post

In fact, all 13,000+ under this username and the other one that I used to have, right?

Don't want to be called childish? Don't be childish. Or just put me ignore, I really don't give a fuck what you do.

[theemu]

140. Well, the thing is...

...you are childish.

[RetroLounge]

82. that I don't support a damn draft dodger?

nice Rovian talking point.

Sour Grapes tend to blur the thought process, but helping out the Right Wing seems to be the M.O. today of the Non-Dean supporters.

Gore made an endorsement, and now, the man who WON the election, got the most votes in history, now is not worthy of your respect because he didn't endorse your candidate?

Well, I doubt he ever had your respect, based on your Gore-Waffle.

:cry:

[deminflorida]

91. You know Dean could earn my respect if he'd modify his....

Middle Class Tax Stance, but he won't do it. That's apparent, and another thing, just because I don't respect getting out of the Vietnam doesn't mean I don't think it was the smart thing to do for anyone, and I'm retired Military. I would not have supported that war just like I don't support the current one. As for my Gore-Waffle, I waffled on his ass as soon as he didn't have the courage to run himself against Bush in 2004, today just caused me to lose all respect for him and there is no way I will vote for who he thinks I should, period.

The slap at Dean on my part was uncalled for, but I hate being called childish. Good thing I'm not running, my ass would be in hot water all the time. But, if someone picks a fight...Oh well.

[Ksec]

114. Your either with us or your with the terrorists huh?

Sounds like a Bush speech

[LuminousX]

95. don't support a damn [sic] draft dodger

Fascinating...

edit: fixed subject

[HuckleB]

104. Since he's not a draft dodger, yes.

Sorry, but Dean's back condition is almost identical to mine. When I tried to enlist in the Air Force, I got the big "no" based on my back. And, believe me, I am as active as they come. All this crap about skiing is just misinformed nonsense.

[loyalsister]

156. Actually it does

It sounds like soldier worship is what led you to your candidate. That is what I have thought was a silly element in Clark's campaign all along. There aren't enough insecure dem leaning men in the US to elect the man.

[HuckleB]

28. "From on high.."

Oh brother. The guy gave his opinion. He is entitled. Let's not continue to get carried with misplaced emotion. Sheesh.

[Donna Zen]

62. Why are you pretending?

You know just as well as I do that Gore declared this primary season over. Get in line, move on, nothing to see here.

And it's all about Gore...getting his revenge. Thanks Al, four more years of bush, you always showed such political savey.

[HuckleB]

64. No, I don't.

Gore is too smart for that.

[arendt]

29. Same nasty Democrats who were at Paul Wellstone's funeral

That's it, lap up that GOP Kool Aid.

Let's warp an important and justifiably partisan
speech into an "outrage". Give me a break.

Everything any Democrat does has to be
turned into an insult to some other Democrat.

The only "Dems" that Gore will get a backlash
from are the Holy Joe supporters.

arendt

[wiley]

168. Not 9/11?

You couldn't work a 9/11 motif in there? It was the inane media coverage that Gore's endorsement generated that made any sentient being crazy. Got more coverage than those 9 Afghani children who were...oops!... murdered. Can we all get a grip around here?

[PVnRT]

30. Ah, hypocrisy

Tell me, if he were endorsing YOUR candidate, would you be saying the same thing?

A: No.

[deminflorida]

38. The main reason I respect Wes Clark is because to this point....

he has shown the most respect to the other candidates.

Period.

Leadership is the primary issue in this election, and he has it, no endorsement needed to see that.

[PVnRT]

63. So do I

I want to see a Dean/Clark ticket. Funny that few around ehre can get over their knee-jerk childish bullshit hatred of Dean to realize that would be near unstoppable.

[dfong63]

89. if Clark respects the other candidates so much, then why did he run?

imho it was very disrespectful for him to jump in at the last minute like that. a man who no political experience, not even a registered democrat, fresh off the republican fundraising circuit. with 8 dems running, he jumps in and says either "None of you can win" or "I'm so much better than you that I can come in and win after giving you other guys 6 months' head start". that's not what i call "respectful".

[mmonk]

39. or

how would you react to an implication that your support for your candidate makes you not a team player? He can give his opinion about the election and who he endorses, but no opinion about me.

[PVnRT]

59. Where did Gore disparage supporters of other candidates?

Christ, are you so caught up in your candidate that you completely identify with him? Are you unable to seperate criticisms of your candidate with criticisms of you? That's called a cult of personality, and I have too much respect for Clark to believe that he would form one consciously.

[mmonk]

92. Don't know how you get your ideas from my post

I believe he was addressing in some sort democratic voters. I don't follow cults, cult like leaders, etc. or I would blindly follow like repubs. Besides, Dean is the rock star in the group.

[PVnRT]

148. Yeah, obviously

us Dean supporters are too fucking stupid, else we wouldn't support Dean!

You took offense at Gore stating his OPINION that Dean is the best choice. You inferred, possibly because you've been chewing too many sour grapes, that he was insulting all who don't support Dean. You, you, you, not Gore.

[Walt Starr]

31. Gore's language was eloquent, as well as respectful

He gave his opinion strongly.

His endorsement has convinced me, Dean is the man and I will not change that stance unless President Gore changes his.

[enki23]

34. christ. more "from on high" bs. sounds like "saint ralph"

and "self-righteous greenies" and "arrogant..."

seems everyone who disagrees with one's chosen wisdom must be so deluded they think they got the scoop from god.

[Justice]

36. Surprised About Gore's Words in Harlem

First of all, I like your original post. It is worth discussing.

I liked it when Gore said - if I can influence someone's view of who to support - I will do that. That is fair and well said. Al Gore has a right to support whomeever he wishes - whether I agree with him or not. I agree that he has the right.

I really didn't like it when Gore quoted Reagan to support what the Democrats should be doing. It is vital to win the WH, but I didn't like the words of Reagan being used and I didn't like that Gore was telling me that I need to step into line - particularly at this stage. That is not "influencing" me to support Dean. What Al needs to say to people like me (supporters of another candidate) is here is why I support Dean. Help me to see what Al sees in Dean.

What Al did say on this point was (i) Dean has shown his ability to build a grassroots organization and (ii) Dean stood alone (of the major candidates) against the war. The first one is true, but not a reason to support a candidate. The second one is not true, and I was disappointed that Al would not speak the truth. So, not very influential. Plus, it really seemed to cut against his point about all sticking together as a party. On the one hand, don't criticize, but then in the next breathe what does Gore do? Criticize other Dem candidates. Hmm. Not very well thought out.

I heard Paul Begala's comments on the announcement this morning - he made one good one. Politics is about the future, not about the past (quoting Clinton). Gore said very little about Dean's ability to get us out of Iraq. That is because Dean doesn't really have the experience to do it. Like it or not folks, this is an issue. No amount of rah rahing or insults changes it. Dean needs credibility on foreign policy issues. I want someone to show me how Dean gets that or demonstrates that he has the ablity/plan.

Lastly, Begala's other point was that that Dean first thanked Corinna Gore and suggested that she had alot to do with Gore making this decision at this time. That struck a chord with me, as she was so influential (too much so IMO) in the 2000 campaign.

So my take was, surprised Gore was endorsing anyone at this time, perfectly entitled to do it, but disappointed with the words Gore used to express his support. Perhaps this is more of a reflection of why Gore struggled in 2000.

And by the way, I think Dean has lots of good things to say, and is very passionate about healthcare, education and other domestic issues, so this is not a blanket knock on Dean.

[quinnox]

46. I agree totally

You express how I feel well.

[adadem]

50. Exactly

Tone was very depreciating to us...especially those of us who volunteered hours upon hours for him...very preachy...
"really didn't like it when Gore quoted Reagan to support what the Democrats should be doing. It is vital to win the WH, but I didn't like the words of Reagan being used and I didn't like that Gore was telling me that I need to step into line"

[RetroLounge]

83. depreciating

as in your value is dropping?

and please show the quote where he was Preachy.

and where did he say "step into line?"

Oh yeah, he didn't...

[ParanoidPat]

133. IMHO, using Reagans words was *BRILLIANT*.......

.....for two reasons. First, IIRC, Reagan WON! Second, this will play well with the moderate Republicans who feel that their party was hi-jacked by the extreme right wing. :evilgrin:

[Cheswick2.0]

41. that is not what he is saying at all

He made two separate statements. One was that he supported Dean because of the grassroots passion behind him and because of Deans stand against the WAR! The other statement was that democrats should not be bashing each others candidates and should join together to get rid of bush. How can you have a problem with that?

[mmonk]

44. when its time and the winner determined

no vote has been cast.

[BootinUp]

42. He's confused

Dean has gained less national support than 30%. It is far too early to call all democrats to give up their candidates. Dean needs to go through a little more fire first, then he will have earned my vote. I think Gore should have stayed out it like other very high level politicians do and let the primaries sort it out. e/o/m

I am ABB but I want the strongest candidate!

[King Coal]

47. Drudge has a Torch Has Passed headline

Excerpt: Gore said Dean "really is the only candidate who has been able to inspire at the grass-roots level all over the country." He said the former Vermont governor also was the only Democratic candidate who made the correct judgment about the Iraq war.




Not true.

[BootinUp]

52. I have posted before

About the fact that Deans and Clark's position on the war are the same. But it sure is tough for us lttle guys against the mega-media and pundits and the RW. But I will keep trying.

[unfrigginreal]

68. I have posted before

that Clark had information about the plans to attack Iraq and beyond and sat on it. The information about an 8 country attack plan could have had a significant effect on public opinion before we went to war. His position was I see nothing, I hear nothing and I say nothing...that is until he decided to run for President.

[BootinUp]

69. Oh I'm sorry

I should have included you in my list...;)

If writing lengthy articles and testifying before congress is doing nothing then I guess you are right....NOT

Clark at the time was a business man with a wife that did not want him to go into politics. She wanted to settle down after 34 years of moving all over the world. But you can spin it if you want to.

[unfrigginreal]

85. You are the one that is spinning

Clark had information at hand that could have influenced public opinion to oppose the Iraq action. He sat on it. What does that have to do with his business position or marital status?

[BootinUp]

94. What secret exactly?

I distinctly remember stories in major papers leaked from the pentagon after 9/11 about the grand plan, Iraq and middle east. What is the big secret Clark sat on? He is repeating it now because the public is probably ready to think instead of react like scared monkeys.

Spin that.

[rabz_blairite]

51. far from insulting

I think Al Gore's endorsement speech/statement was worded more for the undecided voters, I don’t think, as many are suggesting that his words were intended to knock down other candidates and there supporters.

I have alot of respect for Al Gore, his rallying cry to democrats to get behind one candidate will fail to impress some, but the basic message that he is getting across is that, if Dean or whoever wins the nomination, all democrats should get behind that candidate and make sure they become president in 2004.

Gore believes the best candidate is Dean and most of you will think the candidate you support is the best choice, Gore is only stating his opinion, and trying to convince people why he thinks Dean is the best candidate for president, his words were of the converting type but far from insulting.

[BootinUp]

60. Not insulting

But it certainly is an attempt to draw away supporters of other candidates. Can you really dispute that?

Did you read post 10?

[rabz_blairite]

84. Conversion

There was a clear attempt to convert other supports away from there preferred candidate to Dean, but this in the attempt to get as many people behind the strongest candidate possible and in Gore's opinion that candidate is Dean

[louis-t]

55. Am I missing something?

Where are the 'insulting, demeaning words'? Where is the arrogant 'on high' attitude? What part is offensive except to a right-winger? He hasn't forgotten about the will of the people and states so in the speech. Where does it say anything about 'if you are a good Democrat then you better go along'? Calls for party unity are threatening? Who ARE you? This poster reminds me of the whiners who complain of 'liberal bias' in the media simply because opinions aren't slanted their way, then when they finally invent a media outlet that favors them they call it fair and balanced.

[Larkspur]

58. Gore's endorsement undermines the pro-Iraq War candidates

and it should. That war was wrong and Kerry, Gephardt, Lieberman, and Edwards screwed up.

Regarding Kucinich, he was not a Prez candidate last year or early this year when Howard Dean was literally the lone Prez candidate who opposed the Iraq War.

But this endorsement by Gore was as much an endorsement of us Dean supporters who have enthusiastically embraced Dean and the campaign. By endorsing Dean, Gore is really endorsing the Greatest Grassroots movement in history. None of the other candidates, Clark included, can honestly boast of as strong grassroots support as Dean has. It was Dean who inspired thousands to attend his Sleepless Summer Tour rallies, which happened over 3 months prior to the Iowa Caucuses. It was Dean who excited thousands of Texas Dems to attend his rallies and to canvass for him in IA and NH. It is Dean who is inspiring Massachusetts and Connecticut Dems to forsake their "Favorite Sons" in favor of a Dem who is building the most effective organization to defeat the Bush Machine.

Dean earned this endorsement because his thousands of supporters, many first time political activists, have enthusiastically supported him.

[BootinUp]

66. I take some issue of course

Clark's average campaign contribution is also under a hundred dollars but he is projected to be at 12 million or higher in the 4th qtr. He hasn't been in the race nearly as long as the others. There is a strong grass roots campaign, I am part of that proof.

cheers

[beawr]

86. I am sort of insulted

As a Clark supporter, I see the Gore endorsement as absolutely indicative of what is so terribly wrong with our party. I believe the insensitive and insane timing of his endorsement opens Gore up to all sorts of charges of setting up a Losing Dem candidate so he can step in in 2008. Whether or not is it true is meaningless. Frankly, there is no truth, only perception.

Here's my perception: Gore is SO inept and such an ingrained loser that he won and election and still lost the Presidency.

[yellowcanine]

93. So the butterfly ballots, hanging chads, etc

were a result of Gore's ineptitude? Get a grip. What is insane about the timing? You have endorsed Clark already and no one has even voted! Why doesn't Gore have the same right? Because he endorsed Dean? If Gore had endorsed Clark, would you still be trashing him and talking about insane timing or would you be whooping it up?

[beawr]

137. No, No

No, he was inept in his handling of the campaign, his handling of Clinton and his handling of the post-election crap in FLA. He was running as part of peace and prosperity, he should never have lost, never should have even been close.

The timing is insane because it makes him look bad and draws too much attention to himself.

Nobody cares whom I endorse, except perhaps my wife. I see nobody getting angry about my wanting Clark.

If Gore had endorsed Clark at this point, I would be wondering why, not whooping it up.

[Starpass]

151. Gore's comments will gut the US Congress of Dems

..way to go, Al. I said already this a.m. that he seemed to be totally out to lunch and not focused on his speech and that cost us all. He spit on all the Congresspeople who are up for re-election in '04--duh, remember them??!! How the hell now do so many of these people who voted for the war go against his statements??-their opponents are going to kill them. Screw you stupid purist - you know, the Nader Moron type - who think it will be just saintly to have all of the evil Dems gone and repukes in total charge. Hope you can pay the bills on the loser life you are going to live when Bush wins and they are in 80% control of the Congress. This might be fun and games to you; but either you are young (and honey, you have no future) or you have nothing because those who even own a house are going to lose it all if these creeps remain. Nice statement...these are the people who the Dems need to cut and run from. But they won't because it's just like the repukes leading the zeros to vote for them.

[TopesJunkie]

153. Dude, your going way overboard.

I mean, I'm sorry, but Al Gore doesn't have that much power.

[Myra]

158. Gore choice of words was "poor" because he didn't pick your candidate.

I assume.

[robbedvoter]

159. Nope. Because he discouraged dissent. Just like W

Stop This Train
Who decides this election—you or Al Gore?
http://slate.msn.com/id/2092275/
By William Saletan
Updated Tuesday, Dec. 9, 2003, at 10:42 AM PT

Listen to this story on NPR's Day to Day.

What was that again about counting every vote?
snip

No ordinary person would presume to tell other presidential candidates to stop criticizing Dean. But Gore did. He instructed Democrats to "speak no ill" of anyone in their party. "We can't afford to be divided," he said. Why did Gore deliver that message this morning? Because tonight Dean's rivals will get their last chance to confront him in a debate until nearly a month from now, at which point the Iowa caucuses will be just two weeks away. Gore is trying to stop anyone from stopping Dean.

In case anyone missed the point, Dean underscored it. He thanked Gore "particularly those words that said that the 11th Commandment now also ought to apply to Democrats. As you know, I've been picking buckshot out of my rear end in some of these debates, and we're going up to New Hampshire tonight and see if I do some more."

It's one thing to endorse a candidate. It's another to suggest that criticism of that candidate undermines your party—particularly when you've got such stature, as the party's most recent presidential nominee, that no other candidate can afford to rebuke you.

"This campaign is not about Howard Dean going to the White House. This campaign is about us going to the White House, all of us," Dean told the crowd. "We will open the doors to the White House and let the American people back in." That's great, Howard. We'd love to go to the White House. We'd just like to go to the polls first.
****

****

[Myra]

161. I can kinda understand why you'd say he discouraged dissent

'Cause Prez Gore did ask us to pull together behind Dean (tho' he strongly emphasised that he's just one person giving an opinion).

But to say "he discouraged dissent. Just like W" is disgraceful.

I've been penned in many of W's perversly named "first ammendment zones" and I've been attacked by cops many times for participating in peaceful protests and carrying signs critical of the BFEE.

Gore has never once attacked me on the street for exercising my free speech rights.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

160. You seem to have forgotten that the "will of the people" couldn't...

...overcome the 2000 NeoCon Coup. I would be willing to guess that Gore has forgotten more about Democracy than you will ever learn.

I hear your mother calling your name...on the Freeper Board.

[arewethereyet]

162. yeah, Al has a way with words don't he

explains a lot I'd say