Dean's Appeal to Swing Voters, Moderates and even (gasp) Freepers

[rumguy]

Some of us may be underestimating Dean's ability to appeal to a wide spectrum of voters. Dean has an interesting mix of qualities and beliefs that may play very well in the general election, exciting not only the Dem base, but also picking up those coveted swing votes. The following are four examples of what I mean.

1. Dean is a fiscal conservative. He balanced the budget, left a surplus. Bush has increased the size of the federal government and wracked up huge debts.

2. Bush has mistreated vetrans and cut their services. Dean would fix that.

3. Bush has gutted environmental laws. I posted an article last week about gun owners being angry over this. All over America there are petitions being circulated in gun clubs about this issue. Dean is reasonably gun friendly, and is leaps and bounds better than Bush on this issue.

4. Dean has a maverick charisma that is very American. We love a person who talks straight and stands up to power.

All in all, Dean has the unique ability to be many things to many people. The anti-war crowd embraced him early on, but I also believe, some gun owning hunters in the Western states could also embrace him.

Dean can take contradictory hopes and messages and make them his own.

I will venture a guess that there are even some Freepers out there who secretely like Dean.

[Langis]

1. I really think everyone's fears about Dean will be dispelled

Once we hit the general election cycle. There is just no getting around the damage Bush has done. He can not defend the insane increase in federal spending, or his raping of the environment… and on and on. Even though I am in the Clark camp, I have no fear of Dean in the general election.

[Bombtrack]

2. Dean is a self proclaimed fiscal conservative, but he is not

Dean's basic economic platform, to raise middle class taxes and increase healthcare spending by 90 billion dollars would never be labelled a fiscally conservative one. Does he have a moderate economic record in Vermont? Yes. But his proposal to "just" go back to the taxes of the previous decade, has no fundemental difference from Walter Mondale, accept that Mondale didn't proclaim himself as a fiscal conservative.

If he wants to call himself a deficit hawk, that would be not entirely discriptive, yet more acurate than "fiscal conservative".

the swing voters in this country, 20 percent who mostly consist of white, college educated, suburban, middle class parents who regard themselves as independants, also knownas soccer moms and dads, (the term frequently is misused), will not embrace a tax raise by a majority in all but the most democratic states, barring a second recession. No matter how many times Dean throws out his property taxes talking point.

The implication that he can get the gun-nuts out for him, and that will win it for him, is also absurd. One, because the number of pro-NRA-type voters that aren't diametrically apposed to Dean on most other issues, particularly social issues, and also who relate to an NYC/Hamptons/Vermont Yalie, and wouldn't be insulted by his dumb confederate flag flap, is so very small. And 2, 50 percent of voters want stricter gun laws(compared to 10 percent who want less strict) mostly the soccer moms and also urban democrats.

[Hep]

3. Increase healthcare spending by 90 Bil

You say it as if it didn't go to pay for everyone to get healthcare. That was good for vermont. And you should get ready to look silly, because ALL dems want to raise taxes.

You're simply baffled as to how you're going to defeat Dean. The thing is YOU won't. It'll be someone else. I know, I know as long as Dean loses. We'll just wait and see.

[Bombtrack]

12. All dems want to raise taxes, ON THE TOP INCOME EARNERS

I don't say it as if it's a terrible program, I say it because it isn't consistent with what a fiscal conservative wants and stands for. I think Dean has a decent healthcare plan. And so does Kerry, who want's to spend around the same amount, and so does Edwards, who doesn't have to spend as much but alot still. But that kind of entitlement is liberal or at best centrist.

And tax-increases are anything but conservative

[Bombtrack]

13. dupe

dupe

[bryant69]

5. Well, isn't this a ray of sunshine

Comparing him to Mondale was a particularly subtle point. But I'm not sure you understand the term Fiscal Conservative. It means that you strive for some sort of balance between what you bring in and what you put out. President Bush's Tax Cuts have taken us from a surplus to a deficit, and it strikes me that the answer is pretty clear.

Frankly I'd like to hear Dean talk about cracking down on offshore banking practices that, besides making it easier for terrorists to put us at risk, also cost this country millions in revenues. I'd like to see him talking about increasing corporate taxes up to a reasonable level.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Larkspur]

6. Repealing Bush's tax cuts is not a tax increase and most opposed Bush's

tax cuts to begin with.

The only ones who got a tax bribe, because that is what the so called middle class tax cut is, are the married with kids. Those of us who are single or married child-free or single with kids got crap from Bush's "Tax cut" but the state income and property taxes are on the rise negating whatever tax cut crumbs Bush offered us.

[Bombtrack]

15. Dean's proposed "repeal" requires a new law, which is an increase

from what is and will be law in January 2005, the beginning of the next presidential term.

And the single most important group of voters in this country are married with kids. Most of them being white, suburban, college educated, middle class parents who regard themselves as independants, also known as the soccer moms and dads. And they don't think that their income taxes are too low. Dean's property taxes talking point is a cop-out, and if he was honest and direct he wouldn't complain about Bush's cuts to "ken lay and the boys" when his opponents want to put a share of the revenues collected on them than Dean does

[Larkspur]

Married with kids only make up 35% of the population

They are not the majority.

And Bush's tax cuts have been derided by all honest economists, Paul Krugman being the most famous.

[Bombtrack]

20. Krugman endorsed the Kerry tax plan

and I was talking about the most important deciding group of voters, which have never been a majority

[stickdog]

9. Bombtrack, are you a borrow & spend Republican by any chance?

I think I just had an epiphany here.

[Bombtrack]

14. that's only the millionth time a Deanie has used the "you're a republican"

line to dismiss legitimate critism

I happen to be a very anti-supply side, pro-regulatory, pro-gun control, democrat.

[stickdog]

16. But you like huge revenue shortfalls? (NT)

[Bombtrack]

19. no, and I didn't say I did

I like candidates who have at least a halfway decent chance of victory

[killbotfactory]

4. But we found all those WMD's and Al Qaeda cells in Iraq!

Dean is doomed for not supporting the war!

Oh wait... no, we didn't find anything...

Nevermind.

[janx]

7. A couple of them actually finally admitted they'd be voting

for him. But those were libertarians.

I almost dropped my coffee when I saw it, and people piled up on them very heavily, but it's true.

[Scott Lee]

8. Dean's complexity mystifies and angers statist myopes

I had a good friend of mine, a hardcore Marxist, asking me why in the hell I would support Dean. I explained it to him, issue by issue, but this pal o mine was just flummoxed by the "mix" of issues and the fact that I supported Dean on one thing but opposed him on another.

This typifies alot of the resentment I've seen toward Dean on DU. Some hate the guy based on one or two issues. Oh, that life were that simple. I use a pragmatic equation for my support of anyone and it's elementary - do their positives outweigh the negatives? In Dean's case, they do.

[SahaleArm]

10. He's got a great strategy - don't commit on any one position.

If in doubt, fall back on states rights.

[BootinUp]

11. The only evidence we have now is the polls

See my other post for poll information: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=24883#24888

Which clearly show Dean appeals to the left wing of the dems, he is slightly below clark with moderates and sucks with conservative dems.

This is why we need to go through the primaries to vet this whole thing out. Personally I do not trust Gore as the political mastermind. I'd rather see how the candidates do.

Besides the fact Gore's reason for supporting Dean was incorrect. His is not the only grassroots campaign, but that is off topic.

[Larkspur]

17. Dean has the BEST and strongest Grassroots campaign

Clark has not been able to generate the enthusiasm that Dean has. Dean drew thousands to rallies on his Sleepless Summer Tour. That was unheard of 4 months prior to the Iowa Caucuses. Clark has not come even close to attracting the numbers Dean has.

[SahaleArm]

18. I'd hope so - He's had a year to cultivate his image *nm*

[Gman]

21. Dean is dead meat in November

He'll make McGovern look good.