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Don't talk about Clark being Trojan Horse

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:23 PM
Original message
Don't talk about Clark being Trojan Horse
An apparently Clark-supporting moderator thinks it is "inflammatory."

I am sorry, I know I am posting out of turn or against some part of the rules, but this is ridiculous...read the thread. NOTHING inflammatory was said, and it was posted as a legitimate question.

I didn't see anything in the TOS about locking threads if they differ from the mods personal opinions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=859920
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. its so..
inappropriate, why bother taking bait
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. What is "inappropriate?"
Why is it this not a legitimate concern for the democratic party?
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
2. kick
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't know
But this is an outright lie.

"thinks Bush deserves a pass on the 9/11 investigation"
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eileen_d Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
4. I guess you want another locked thread
I tried replying to your other thread but was too late. Personally I think the "Clark is a stealth Republican" issue just had more than enough play in GD.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. it'd be 3d today...I guess I'm on a roll
sigh
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LittleDannySlowhorse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Mine didn't get in in time either
I really don't believe that Clark is a "trojan horse" and I wrote this long and insightful series of paragraphs to that effect, but the thread was already locked by then.

Sigh...
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
6. It's easy to say things...
I agree, Clark was a Republican until very recently. So, did he suddenly convert ?... Hard to believe. But, given that soe many people just like the "way he looks", what do you expect ?
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Toronto Ron Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Define "very recently"
Clark may have voted for Raygun & Bush I, but he also voted for Clinton twice & Gore.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
17. He was an independent, not a republican.
n/t
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. It's very easy to tell lies, too,
like "Clark was a Republican until very recently."
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. This will be locked too...
n/t
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. There is something in the TOS about doing this.
I hope you are hear tomorrow.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I have been a strong Clark supporter
until recently. Now I have concerns.

Go lock all the threads that criticize the other candidates, I guess. I don't get it.
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Anaxamander Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I find that hard to believe...
When did you suddenly become aware of Clark being a GOP trojan horse? Was it last night, when he did, as you said, "too" well on Hardball? Just because he shows the viewing public what a know-nothing asshole Chris Matthews is, doesn't mean the Repukes helped him do it.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Here, you can do your own research
http://news.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=NEWS&action=l&board=37138469&tid=nmlifestatuesdc&sid=37138469&ft=1

I have been posting on this board since about #800. Somewhere in here, maybe around 80,000 or so, I can't be sure because Yahoo boards aren't searchable, I was the lone Clark supporter on this Democratic board. Everyone thought I was nuts, and that I should back Dean.

Now I am getting locked out for (reluctantly) backing Dean, not Clark.

The repubs might be right...we do eat our own.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. your 1st post said Clark wanted to give bush* a pass on 9/11
could you give me a link? thought he wanted a full investigation..
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. And he does
He has said it many times and for a long time. He repeated it last night on Hardball. Is there a transcript anybody knows of?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I tried earlier but couldn't bet the MSNBC page to load....
wonder if it's on-line yet. Going to try again.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Is a possible mistatement "inflammatory?"
I was referring to his talk with Tweety, which has been quoted on the board at least a dozen times today. "Giving a pass" may have been the wrong choice of words, but why did it warrant locking the thread, thus barring any chance of correction or discussion of why my statement was wrong?

And here we are, arguing about posting rules and not the issue. No wonder we're democrats. Sheesh.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. Hardball
Edited on Tue Dec-09-03 04:10 PM by Jerseycoa
On investigating 9/11 and intelligence:

MATTHEWS: Why did this administration build the case for war with Iraq after 9/11? What do you think was their motive?

CLARK: I think it’s-you know, we really need to ask that question, and we really should have a set of hearings and demand that the administration produce the answers. I don’t know.

I mean, I wasn’t in on the councils of state. It’s speculation. But I’ll speculate. There were some people who believe that it was essential to just have a strong show of U.S. force. There were others who believed I guess that you couldn’t expect to be successful against Osama bin Laden so you had to take down somebody that you could be successful against. There were some who believed in this greater geostrategic vision that you could kind of sweep through the Middle East, clean up these old, worn out, former Soviet client states, knock them off, get into democracy, and have it all set so the next peer competitor that came down would have to face.

And there were even those who made the argument that the real way to bring peace between Israel and the Palestinians was to go after Saddam Hussein. This was the sort of road to Jerusalem runs through Baghdad argument. There was a whole variety...

MATTHEWS: But not one of those motives was openly expressed by this administration.

CLARK: No. And you know, what was expressed was a sort of least common denominator, let’s go after the weapons of mass destruction. We’ve already got a U.N. mandate to use against Saddam Hussein. He’s probably in violation of it.

But I had seen some of that intelligence. Several members here in the audience have seen that intelligence. I always believed that he had withheld something from the inspectors. I mean, he’s a cunning guy. And there was no reason to think that he wouldn’t have tried to keep some material.

MATTHEWS: What do you think of the vice president’s story, there’s a story in “Newsweek” this week, it just broke today, the vice president’s office was developing intel to justify the war outside the CIA, outside defense intelligence. They had their own sources in the Iraqi National Congress and they were pushing this stuff right through the office there. If you had a vice president, if you got elected, are you going to allow a vice president to have a separate intelligence operation, a separate operation to justify a war?

CLARK: Absolutely not.



On the issue of whether the Saudis warned Bush pre-9/11:

*MATTHEWS: Sir, during the past week, Governor Dean has discussed information being leaked to the Internet by conspiracy theorist that the president was tipped off by Saudis to 9/11 yet did nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What do you think of Governor Dean’s comments?

CLARK: Well, I wouldn’t make comments like that, because I think when you’ve been on the inside of the intelligence community and national leadership, you recognize that’s just a very, very, very low likelihood of ever having happened. I mean, it just doesn’t work that way.


Source: Hardball Transcript


So, Clark believes 9.11 should be investigated. He does not believe the Saudis warned Bush. This does not say he doesn't think Bush knew, but that he doesn't think the Saudis were the ones to tell Bush, if he knew. I wish Matthews would have allowed a fuller answer, but he switched the subject to General Schwarzkopf (as if we hadn't heard enough of that one). Anyway, whether Clark believes there was a 9.11 conspiracy in terms of a warning to Bush, I don't know. It sounds like he doesn't. What he does believe is there was a conspiracy within the Bush Administration to capitalize on 9.11 to take the war on terror From Afghanistan to Iraq, just because they always wanted to.

*Something skipped in the transcript here - it was the unidentified female who asked the question. (on edit)
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LiberalBushFan Donating Member (831 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
21. here's what clark was saying
he said it's unlikely that bush knew about 9/11 in advance and intentionally allowed it to happen (and it would be idiotic for him to say otherwise with any intention of winning the general election)
Clark has been saying even before Dean that an investigation of 9/11 was needed and that Bush needed to take responsibility for the security failure, and stop blaming it on others

and if you think he did too well on hardball you should have seen him on hannity and colmes during the draft days. he never does badly on a tv appearance no matter what they try to do to him. Also, Chris Matthrews had a pro-clark audience all around this time which might've prevented him from being a total asshole (I still think he was being an asshole as usual at times).
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Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
22. How could anyone
forget the "coy" months, prior to his announcement, when it was asked time and time and time again, if he was a Dem?

All through the summer, the clarkites said, soon, he will say he's a Dem soon! If he was a Dem, as some here say, why couldn't he just say it? He was fired from the military over two years ago. So that could not be a legitmate excuse.

Then, after he announced, it took him another month to "become" a democrat.

Yes, I believe he is a Trojan Horse.
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. as Dean calls them, he's a BushLite!
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-09-03 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
25. I am locking this thread.
If you have any questions about the rules or enforcement rules, please ask them in the Ask The Administrator forum.


Thank you.


DU Moderator
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